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  • speedofthepuma 6 Mar 2013 01:23:29 13,403 posts
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    It is rarely good for the game if a player is sent off. The neutral spectator always suffers.
  • ecu 6 Mar 2013 02:49:42 80,050 posts
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    Ok so nobody wants this was it/wasn't it a red card thing to be dragged out too long. Here are the laws of the game regarding this incident:

    Careless, Reckless, Using Excessive Force

    "Careless" means that the player has shown a lack of attention or consideration when making his challenge or that he acted without precaution:
    -no further disciplinary sanction is needed if a foul is judged to be careless

    "Reckless" means that the player has acted with a complete disregard of the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent:
    -a player who plays in a reckless manner shall be cautioned

    "Using excessive force" means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent:
    - a player who uses excessive force shall be sent off
    Keith Hackett covered this in a You are the Ref strip:

    You need to be alert to all forms of dangerous play and take action whether or not there is physical contact. The striker has performed an overhead kick "with complete disregard to the danger to his opponent" so, after calling on the medics, disallow the goal, caution the player for being reckless and award a direct free-kick to the defending team.
    Examples from this season:

    Torres was booked for this against United in October (and then sent off for diving later in the game!).
    Darron Gibson and Carlton Cole were both sent off for it in December. Both reds were rescinded.

    It falls under "reckless" play, so Nani should have been cautioned. The ref has deemed it excessive force and I believe he's made a mistake in doing so.

    Edited by ecureuil at 03:11:03 06-03-2013
  • liamthemaster 6 Mar 2013 02:57:56 1,629 posts
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    Damn utd fans take a lot of time to prove their opinion is fact.
  • ecu 6 Mar 2013 03:02:02 80,050 posts
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    I saw all the relevant links as I was reading the fallout from the game on various websites, it was just a matter of bringing them together, which didn't take long. It's also nice to know what the actual law is, instead of speculating.

    Edited by ecureuil at 03:02:23 06-03-2013
  • speedofthepuma 6 Mar 2013 03:18:43 13,403 posts
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    liamthemaster wrote:
    Damn utd fans take a lot of time to prove their opinion is fact.
    So you admit he's right then.
  • Dougs 6 Mar 2013 07:04:38 83,506 posts
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    As with all calls that refs make, it's a matter of interpretation. There aren't many definites in football, hence why video tech would be difficult to implement.
  • damagedinc 6 Mar 2013 07:11:14 2,594 posts
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    RVPs sending off against barca a few years ago was a worse desicion and had half the fuss.

    foot was high from the refs angle he had no choice but to send him off. even with the red plenty of teams snuff out games with ten men. united couldnt deal with that so didnt go through.
  • THFourteen 6 Mar 2013 07:36:10 45,765 posts
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    Whether after hours of hindsight you can bring yourself to agree with the decision or not, i think 99% of people watching the game after seeing the incident, waiting for nanny to finish roll around, and get up, were utterly shocked to see a red card brandished.
  • Deleted user 6 March 2013 07:37:10
    Well I'm proud of our players anyway. We didn't get raped.
  • THFourteen 6 Mar 2013 07:41:06 45,765 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Well I'm proud of our players anyway. We didn't get raped.
    Just groped.
  • morriss 6 Mar 2013 07:44:41 71,290 posts
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    Boab wrote:
    Yeah I think if there was a full compliment of players left on the park til the end Utd would have gone through. They did a superb job of stifling Madrid for almost an hour and bar a mistake I couldn't really seen them scoring.

    Utd are clearly still good enough to win the CL and will be in with a shout practically forever.
    Especially if they can still afford to cherrypick the league's best players despite their owners being massively in debt.
  • King_Edward 6 Mar 2013 07:46:01 11,470 posts
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    I think any action is justified if it contributes to Man U losing. That's my un-biased, totally neutral opinion.

    Edited by King_Edward at 07:46:15 06-03-2013
  • morriss 6 Mar 2013 07:50:04 71,290 posts
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    Weird Madrid fans aren't moaning about Rafael's blatant handball and red card not given. If it was 9 men they would have won easily.
  • Fab4 6 Mar 2013 07:53:11 8,145 posts
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    Same ref sent off Balotelli for a studs up 'tackle' two years ago.
  • THFourteen 6 Mar 2013 07:55:40 45,765 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    Weird Madrid fans aren't moaning about Rafael's blatant handball and red card not given. If it was 9 men they would have won easily.
    they did win easily
  • morriss 6 Mar 2013 07:56:59 71,290 posts
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    I remember other refs giving numerous bad decisions at Old Trafford that have changed games and not been the focus of an international media shit storm. Blatant penalties, goals not given, last man tackling and only getting a yellow etc. etc.

    Amazing.
  • morriss 6 Mar 2013 07:57:21 71,290 posts
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    THFourteen wrote:
    morriss wrote:
    Weird Madrid fans aren't moaning about Rafael's blatant handball and red card not given. If it was 9 men they would have won easily.
    they did win easily
    Ok, by a much greater margin.
  • morriss 6 Mar 2013 07:57:21 71,290 posts
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    THFourteen wrote:
    morriss wrote:
    Weird Madrid fans aren't moaning about Rafael's blatant handball and red card not given. If it was 9 men they would have won easily.
    they did win easily
    Ok, by a much greater margin.
  • roz123 6 Mar 2013 08:01:56 7,112 posts
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    It was a master stroke bringing on Modric before Utd had a chance to settle. He upped the tempo, took them up another couple of gears and Utd couldn't handle him
  • Armoured_Bear 6 Mar 2013 08:09:12 20,359 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    Boab wrote:
    Yeah I think if there was a full compliment of players left on the park til the end Utd would have gone through. They did a superb job of stifling Madrid for almost an hour and bar a mistake I couldn't really seen them scoring.

    Utd are clearly still good enough to win the CL and will be in with a shout practically forever.
    Especially if they can still afford to cherrypick the league's best players despite their owners being massively in debt.
    You can whinge about their hateful owners but the fact is that Man U pretty much spend what they earn, they're hardly a Man City or Chelsea.
  • Dougs 6 Mar 2013 08:14:22 83,506 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Well I'm proud of our players anyway. We didn't get raped.
    You're not Mansfield or Bradford you know. This wasn't a David vs Goliath match at all.
  • THFourteen 6 Mar 2013 08:15:41 45,765 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Well I'm proud of our players anyway. We didn't get raped.
    You're not Blackburn or Bradford you know. This wasn't a David vs Goliath match at all.
    fixed.
  • Dougs 6 Mar 2013 08:18:28 83,506 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:

    You can whinge about their hateful owners but the fact is that Man U pretty much spend what they earn, they're hardly a Man City or Chelsea.
    Saw something interesting the other day, suggested that despite their healthy cash reserves, they still had to raise the cash for van Persie from the markets. No idea if that's true though.
  • Deleted user 6 March 2013 08:27:55
    Dougs wrote:
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Well I'm proud of our players anyway. We didn't get raped.
    You're not Mansfield or Bradford you know. This wasn't a David vs Goliath match at all.
    Yes I'm aware of that. Thanks for pointing it out though.
  • Trowel 6 Mar 2013 08:35:18 21,575 posts
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    I didn't think it was a red card, but I can absolutely see why the referee gave it. I think it's all about Nani watching the ball, which is something the ref probably couldn't see. Would have thought the 4th official might have been well placed to advise however.

    Obviously I've got no idea of the standards expected in the Champions League, so to be objective I tried to imagine the same event but with it being Lee Cattermole poleaxing an Everton player... and I'd have said a red is harsh.
  • Deleted user 6 March 2013 08:40:10
    Can't believe I've had to go back nearly 20 pages to find the beginning of the red card discussion!

    That's my morning then. Off we go...
  • Trowel 6 Mar 2013 08:45:34 21,575 posts
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    The reaction of the Real players was telling - there's photos of them watching Nani going off, and Ozil is staring wide-eyed in... Oh, hang on.
  • Dougs 6 Mar 2013 08:49:59 83,506 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:

    Yes I'm aware of that. Thanks for pointing it out though.
    So why all the "proud of our players" crap then? Surely that's mainly for games you're expected to lose or where you've hung on in difficult circumstances (10 men etc).
  • The-Bodybuilder 6 Mar 2013 08:51:50 16,914 posts
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    ElNino9 wrote:
    @The-Bodybuilder you're the one that started going about kickboxing for fucks sake.

    What Nani tried to do was no different to what Henry used to do on a regular occurrence. However, Nani had Arbeloa clatter into his foot. I'm not saying he fouled Nani, but it was a ball that Nani was entitled to bring down in that manner and one Arbeloa was entitled to challenge for. Both players got caught, but it's one of those things.

    If you send Nani of for it being a dangerous act, then you need to send any player off for trying bring the ball down with their foot raised, irrespective of any contact. In exactly the same way you get sent off more taking a swing or trying to butt someone without making a connection.
    You are really thick and stupid.
    nowhere did I even claim what Nani did was wrong, you fool. I was merely pointing out that kick isn't JUST a swinging motion, and used a similar motion that what Nani did as an example of a kick that doesn't involve a swing. I showed that a jumping front kick is a kick that's similar to what Nani did. I didn't even bother mentioning about the game or what he did was right or wrong (note: FYI, I don't think it was a red).

    but whatever, maybe the night sleep actually sobered you up from your red mist.
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