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The Dark Knight Rises (Batman 3) • Page 130

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  • OmniaVincitAmor 26 Jan 2013 17:54:33 1,374 posts
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    Just always had this feeling Burton never really got batman. Just that he was a comic book character so he could let his imagination run wild. Nolans felt like he understood it a lot more. That bruce wayne is the soul of the film. Burton just made him a playboy. Dunno just my opinion. Do wish Nolan would've ended the series with a better villain though.  

    Defeat is not getting knocked down, but refusing to get back up.

  • kalel 26 Jan 2013 17:56:23 76,450 posts
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    I do really like the Nolan films btw. It's easy to dwell on the negatives in threads like this, but overall they're films I enjoy and will watch plenty of times in the future.

    Don't like to see people shit on the Burton films though. They were properly groundbreaking at the time and Burton paved the way for all these grown up "dark" superhero films, and they still hold up to a large extent now. Respect!
  • Mola_Ram 26 Jan 2013 18:02:30 2,358 posts
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    I liked them a lot. Well, this one not so much, but I'll happily watch the first two again. Particularly Begins.
  • nickthegun 26 Jan 2013 18:04:52 44,402 posts
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    Batman was played as batman in the burton ones and for that reason they are better batman films. Obviously.

    And bane was an ok villain. The thing I really didn't like was how he was completely neutered into a simpering gimp by the end and then killed by catwoman just so batman could keep his very vague 'no killing' policy.

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  • mowgli 26 Jan 2013 18:24:47 31,819 posts
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    Played as Batman?

    I hate everything Burton so I'll stop before I start ranting.

    Burton is fucking shite.

    Damnit

    Edited by mowgli at 18:24:56 26-01-2013

    Pissy pants.

  • kalel 26 Jan 2013 18:56:47 76,450 posts
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    Problem with Burton is that they keep on giving him things which feel like they'd be a good match. It's when they give him things that he's not an obvious choice for like Ed Wood or Sweeney Todd that he makes an Interesting film.
  • thelzdking 26 Jan 2013 19:33:25 3,387 posts
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    Personally I found Batman/Bruce Wayne to be a bit of a non-character in the last two Nolan films. I can't work out if it's the acting or the script. Either way I'd have named the second and third films "The Joker" and "Bane" respectively.

    And Bane was fucking awesome, although his death was handled very poorly.
  • nickthegun 26 Jan 2013 19:41:02 44,402 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Problem with Burton is that they keep on giving him things which feel like they'd be a good match. It's when they give him things that he's not an obvious choice for like Ed Wood or Sweeney Todd that he makes an Interesting film.
    Planet of the Apes being the glaring exception.

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  • Deckard1 26 Jan 2013 19:54:52 17,991 posts
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    My only problem with the Nolan films is how everyone calls him The Batman when they're talking about him. It really gets on my tits.
  • mowgli 26 Jan 2013 20:02:10 31,819 posts
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    What else would they call him?

    Pissy pants.

  • nickthegun 26 Jan 2013 20:03:49 44,402 posts
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    Batman. Or Jeff Batman (with the Batman pronounced like a jewish surname).

    Edited by nickthegun at 20:04:44 26-01-2013

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  • Mola_Ram 26 Jan 2013 20:05:03 2,358 posts
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    That guy with the dead parents who dresses up as a bat to fight crime
  • kalel 26 Jan 2013 20:06:29 76,450 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Problem with Burton is that they keep on giving him things which feel like they'd be a good match. It's when they give him things that he's not an obvious choice for like Ed Wood or Sweeney Todd that he makes an Interesting film.
    Planet of the Apes being the glaring exception.
    That's sort of his general area ish. Bit more sci-if than magical fantasy, but still. But yeah, was appalling.
  • kickerconspiracy 26 Jan 2013 20:06:41 495 posts
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    Battyman. Or the man that likes doing things up against walls with sailors.
  • nickthegun 26 Jan 2013 20:11:36 44,402 posts
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    I dunno. His name wouldnt have been on many peoples lists for remaking that and when I saw it, I was quite surprised by how little he did with it, other than the insane ending.

    Speaking of which, a nice Burton factoid is that Beetlejuice was a straight up horror when Burton took the script, with Beetlejuice being a winged demon that wanted to rape lydia rather than marry her. He liked the general idea and the rest is history.

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  • morriss 27 Jan 2013 14:24:04 69,373 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    In the end punching defeated the puncher. Punch punch punch.
    It's so much more than that, imo. The fight has to be a physical battle as that fits the story of Bruce now having the inner strength, reserve and will to win - something he had lost at the start. Using gadgets or other methods to beat Bane would have seemed a cop out considering Bruce's story up until that point.
    The verocity behind the fight was really intense if you were invested in the character up until that point, I think. I was on the edge of my seat.

    Bane had also shown that no matter what trick Batman used, he would be one step ahead - (also, using Wayne's own armory to take control of the city was a nice touch. )

    To boil it down to one bloke punching another in the face misses the point entirely, imo. Still, this might be due to the fact that the film didn't pull you in as it did me. I didn't watch the film from a critical distance, as it were, I was in the zone/atmosphere that Nolan created and saw it the way I expect he wanted it to be seen.
  • LeoliansBro 27 Jan 2013 14:26:15 35,047 posts
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    'Using gadgets...' like the bike shooting a missile at Bane when he was about to kill Batman?

    Bane was a misstep about five different ways.

    Edited by LeoliansBro at 14:26:48 27-01-2013

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • morriss 27 Jan 2013 14:36:17 69,373 posts
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    Cat woman did that. And that was to show the difference in their approaches to combat - another theme through the movie. And Bane only got in the position to kill him after being double crossed. But you know all this, so you either dont want to know as you've made your mind up, or we're both seeing the same thing from completely different angles.
  • Mooney 27 Jan 2013 14:45:16 52 posts
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    Loved this film on release day. Never heard a crowd so silent. Truly awesome. I've not enjoyed it since on the small screen. Weird. A great spin on batman and seriosuly? I wouldn't let it end there. Also, robin, fuck off!

    Edited by Mooney at 14:46:00 27-01-2013
  • kalel 27 Jan 2013 15:22:47 76,450 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    I didn't watch the film from a critical distance, as it were, I was in the zone/atmosphere that Nolan created and saw it the way I expect he wanted it to be seen.
    I can do that. and I can also see its flaws. The part of me that likes Batman and comics and all that enjoys it, but I can also be objective and see where it falls down, or where someone who isn't like me might struggle with it.

    I really like Superman Returns but I'm not going to spend my time in that thread claiming it's brilliant and that everyone who thinks it isn't all that is somehow missing the point. Fact is, they're not.
  • morriss 27 Jan 2013 15:50:28 69,373 posts
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    I didn't question your ability, I just said I didn't see it from a critical distance. Also, punch punch punch is not seeing it with any depth whatsoever.

    Also, lumping Superman Returns in the same sentence as Rises makes me think you simply didn't understand the film at all, which in turns negates any reason to discuss it further.

    You seem to (again, mistakenly) equate liking Batman to liking the film. The film is excellent whether Batman was in it or not. Almost every respected critic agrees. I when I say respected, I don't mean anyone on this forum and their lay, armchair nit-picking.
  • DFawkes 27 Jan 2013 15:56:59 19,248 posts
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    So kalel enjoys a film despite its flaws and it "negates any reason to discuss it further"? I think that point was spot on - you're also enjoying a film despite its flaws. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that :) I enjoy watching both films, but there are certainly issues with both.

    Kirby is the man! Even if he wasn't, he'd just ingest and become one.

  • nickthegun 27 Jan 2013 15:59:23 44,402 posts
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    If this had been a... I dunno... a daredevil movie, we wouldnt even be having this conversation. Thats just a crazy thing to say.

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  • StarchildHypocrethes 27 Jan 2013 16:04:00 22,481 posts
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    This film was remarkably dull, particularly when the first two were quite enjoyable.
  • kalel 27 Jan 2013 16:05:21 76,450 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    You seem to (again, mistakenly) equate liking Batman to liking the film. The film is excellent whether Batman was in it or not. Almost every respected critic agrees. I when I say respected, I don't mean anyone on this forum and their lay, armchair nit-picking.
    I think you'll only come to conclusion that it's "excellent" if you're prepared to ignore its (quite considerable) flaws, and yeah, being a big Batman fan is one reason why you'd do that.

    And most reviews I've read had various issues with the film, and some were pretty critical. Top critics are averaging at 7.8 on RT. That's not "excellent", but it's decent, and I'd agree that's about where it sits.

    You do incidentally need to stop suggesting that everyone you don't agree with doesn't understand the film. We're not idiots, and we're not talking about the Seventh Seal here. I clearly mention Superman Returns as an example of being able to both enjoy something as a fan and be objective. I still think you're struggling with this concept.
  • morriss 27 Jan 2013 16:28:17 69,373 posts
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    I don't see people in this thread saying the film is decent. I've seen "laughable" and derisory and all manner of completely over-the-top negative reactions.

    What you fail to understand is being a Batman fan gives the complete opposite effect of what has been continuously suggested in here. I'm more willing to hate a film's fucking guts for getting it wrong than I am inclined to like it. I want not to like new things. Painting a picture of someone accepting anything with a Batman logo on and defending it blindly is insulting. I'm a huge critic of everything related to the franchise that I believe doesn't do it justice. Hence my opinions on all the other films and most of the comics. However, all I'm reading here is "you like Batman, therefore you have shit in your eyes" which is both lazy, argumentative and plain wrong. Just because you might be like that with Superman, doesn't mean I fall into the same category.

    If any Batman film was of the quality of Superman Returns I'd fucking hate it.
  • meme 27 Jan 2013 16:43:48 15,345 posts
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    The over-the-top negative reactions are counterpoints to the gushing over-the-top positive ones. Most people are saying "I liked it, but...".

    GHOSTBUSTERS

  • kalel 27 Jan 2013 16:44:26 76,450 posts
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    Reductio ad absurdium.
  • morriss 27 Jan 2013 16:50:49 69,373 posts
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    meme wrote:
    The over-the-top negative reactions are counterpoints to the gushing over-the-top positive ones. Most people are saying "I liked it, but...".
    No they're not. Well, not the people I'm responding to.
  • morriss 27 Jan 2013 16:52:25 69,373 posts
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    And yeah, it's absurd. Utterly.

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