Can Nokia turn it around? Page 4

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  • Psychotext 12 Feb 2011 00:35:26 54,163 posts
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    That's always really been from an interface / software point of view. That's out of their hands on the whole now.
  • Dan234 12 Feb 2011 12:44:56 2,232 posts
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    What a disaster. Nokia's open OSes knocked on the head just as they were getting somewhere, which leaves iOS, WP7, and Android. All of those can be accused of funneling data to their respective motherships and only Android is open.

    How the hell do Nokia manage it, they always kill something just before it's ready or suddenly lurch off in a new direction.

    Elop was a Trojan Horse, of course.

    Rant, moan.
  • grey_matters 12 Feb 2011 13:09:05 3,723 posts
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    Finnish papers are reporting that Elop is the 7th largest share-holder of Microsoft stock but owns zero Nokia stock. They really aren't happy up there and the conspiracy theories are flying. Understandable I suppose given the job losses this means for Finland.
  • Ryze 12 Feb 2011 13:46:17 3,124 posts
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    presh wrote:
    Bloodkult wrote:
    51.99% Marketshare.

    DOOMED

    This is very true - whatever Nokia is doing wrong with high-end handsets, they still are really dominant in the mid-and lower end handsets and emerging markets.

    But they are really worried. They spunked billions on Navteq so they could offer Ovi maps, then Google Maps came along for free. They launched the Ovi store, and it didn't work. The big move into being a services driven company wasn't wrong, but Apple really set the bar high and by comparison Nokia have looked shoddy.

    One of the dynamics within Nokia that won't be helping is that they don't like admitting they are wrong, which means it can take longer to make strategic business changes. In this respect Android has also been moving a lot faster than Nokia.

    Also, maybe the Nokia brand doesn't dominate the way it used to when everyone had 3210i's and played snake in black and white ;-)

    One thing I've found hilarious over the past few years, is that they never realised that NO-ONE KNOWS WHAT THE HELL 'OVI' IS!!!

    What the hell is OVI? How about... NOKIA App Store??? NOKIA Maps???

    Duhhh. Dumb companies deserve to FAIL. If they can't sort out simple things like brand names and progressively streamlining and improving user interfaces, then let them die.

    I can see potential success coming from their Windows Phones, however.

    Let's see if they fuck it up.
  • Ryze 12 Feb 2011 13:47:44 3,124 posts
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    ElNino9 wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Who cares?

    Seriously. I don't mean that in a dismissive rude way, I'm literally asking, who cares? Is there such a thing as a Nokia fan base? If they stop making phones altogether will a whole group of people simply no longer own phones?

    Don't see the issue really.

    My mum would go mad. Does any anyone else do phones for techno tards?

    Apple.

    /braced for slap...
  • morriss 12 Feb 2011 14:24:44 70,975 posts
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    I might be interested. I love my N95 and N97. Then went went to shite.
  • Deleted user 12 February 2011 14:41:34
    Ryze wrote:
    ElNino9 wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Who cares?

    Seriously. I don't mean that in a dismissive rude way, I'm literally asking, who cares? Is there such a thing as a Nokia fan base? If they stop making phones altogether will a whole group of people simply no longer own phones?

    Don't see the issue really.

    My mum would go mad. Does any anyone else do phones for techno tards?

    Apple.

    /braced for slap...
    Don't see how even I can argue with that! :p
  • Ryze 12 Feb 2011 14:59:18 3,124 posts
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    ^

    /opens eyes...

    Huh?!
  • skuzzbag 12 Feb 2011 15:21:40 5,638 posts
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    The 6310i is still the best phone ever. And snake is the best phone game ever.
  • Peew971 12 Feb 2011 15:44:15 4,742 posts
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    Dan234 wrote:
    What a disaster. Nokia's open OSes knocked on the head [u]just as they were getting somewhere[/u]
    Erm... what?! If they were going somewhere they wouldn't need to find a partner really. How many people upgrade to a Nokia nowadays compared to a few years ago?
    I like that they didn't go the easy way with Android, let's hope they deliver.

    PS: How long before Google buys RIM?
  • Dan234 12 Feb 2011 20:37:05 2,232 posts
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    Both Symbian and MeeGo were going to get sorted out this year, however Balmer's Trojan Horse managed to knock that on the head and instead somehow say with a straight face in the press conference that the WP7 phones coming out at the end of next year/beginning of the year after next will rescue Nokia, but forgetting to mention that it will also destroy any faith customers and developers have in the current technology they've got to tide them over until that time.

    On the other hand MS get patents, a hardware company for their phones, Ovi Maps, phones pre-set to search with Bing. And Nokia still have to pay WP7 licensing fees for the privilege.

    It couldn't have worked out better for MS or worse for Nokia.

    Remember Sendo? Thought not.
  • oceanmotion 12 Feb 2011 20:44:32 15,917 posts
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    Similar outcome would have happened if they went with Android. Nokia were going nowhere and needed a stop gap while they get their house in order. Symbian and MeeGo will still exist, they don't have a huge market share solely in smart phones which is what WP7 will be focusing on. MS and Nokia were both desperate, makes sense to go together instead of another Android OEM, it's just not Nokia's game.
  • SirScratchalot 12 Feb 2011 20:56:53 7,872 posts
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    Nah, Android is an open platform, they could have plunked the Ovi store on everything they made and ripped out anything Google they didn't like. This basically allow microsoft to get every developer relationship and control the software. I must say I think this is getting in bed with a snake.
  • oceanmotion 12 Feb 2011 21:14:13 15,917 posts
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    Microsoft offer probably had some sweeteners over just being another Android OEM. Ideal world, they make Android and WP7 devices. Who knows what the fine print details are, MS could have a rather good deal on offer that secures their future for the time being. The only worry for Nokia is the failure of WP7 becoming a contender, because that leaves them with a rather big hole. Hopefully they have a get out clause if things go south. I really doubt Nokia are stupid enough to sign their soul over even with an ex-Microsoft exec in charge.

    Hopefully they get some products out this year.
  • BurnoutJunkie 12 Feb 2011 21:58:01 715 posts
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    Nokia should have gone with Android, IMO. WP7, to me, doesn't look like it's going anywhere.
  • Peew971 13 Feb 2011 01:34:47 4,742 posts
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    BurnoutJunkie wrote:
    Nokia should have gone with Android, IMO. WP7, to me, doesn't look like it's going anywhere.
    What is that statement based on? Just a dislike for Microsoft? WP7 was well received by all critics and already has more apps than WebOS in less than 4 months of existence. It just needs to mature fast.
    To me what was holding WP7 back the most was the laziness of the OEMs who just put all their energy on Android; the launch hardware has been pretty poor overall. How do you expect people to walk in a shop and be amazed?
    Nokia going to Android wouldn't automatically be a good deal for them, the platform pretty much belongs to HTC and Samsung with a fighting Motorola in 3rd (correct me if I'm wrong). There's a new Android phone almost everyday, it's hard to keep up. With WP7 they become the premier manufacturer and they have a say in the evolution of the OS. It's a risk but probably one worth taking.
  • Vice.Destroyer 13 Feb 2011 10:31:18 5,832 posts
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    Dan234 wrote:
    And Nokia still have to pay WP7 licensing fees for the privilege.

    IT's not that I don't believe you, but have you got a source for that?
  • BurnoutJunkie 13 Feb 2011 11:32:37 715 posts
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    Peew971 wrote:
    BurnoutJunkie wrote:
    Nokia should have gone with Android, IMO. WP7, to me, doesn't look like it's going anywhere.
    What is that statement based on? Just a dislike for Microsoft?
    No, I don't dislike WP7. The more competition, the better. Keeps everyone on their toes. My post was based on WP7 seemingly having fallen off the radar after the big launch last year. Maybe I'm just missing them, but I don't see any ads, have yet to encounter someone using it etc. etc. This is why I don't think Nokia should have chosen then OS. If Nokia's already feeling like it's losing market share, I don't know why WP7 would be their answer to help resolve this.
  • Psychotext 13 Feb 2011 11:46:40 54,163 posts
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    WP7's lack of critical mass take up is actually helpful in that regard. As Peew said, Nokia would just be another face in a very competitive crowd with android. With WP7 they can stand out / help define the platform.
  • PearOfAnguish 13 Feb 2011 13:21:25 7,274 posts
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    Nokia will have to keep plugging away on Symbian and S40 because so many handsets use it, and won't want to lose all the income they get from selling cheaper phones, but they may struggle to make money from WP7. From what anyone can tell sales of WP7 phones have been poor (2 million "shipped" and MS refusing to give any concrete usage or sales figures).

    I don't buy this argument that Nokia wouldn't be able to differentiate itself in the Android market, because if that's the case they'll have exactly the same issues with WP7. All they have to do is produce something along the lines of the N8 but with a decent OS. And it'd be easier to make something different with Android since they'd have a lot more control over the OS and wouldn't have to follow strict hardware guidelines, something which is going to hinder the production of a budget WP7 handset.

    Maybe Nokia will put it out the bag and go back to the glory days, but I would not be at all surprised if they end up getting taken over by MS to be its hardware arm in a few years.

    Vice.Destroyer wrote:
    Dan234 wrote:
    And Nokia still have to pay WP7 licensing fees for the privilege.

    IT's not that I don't believe you, but have you got a source for that?

    This is true, can't find the link right now but Elop got very cagey when asked about licenses and said something about "value going both ways". Which I took to mean they get a reduced license and MS gets to have Nokia Maps and whatever else they fancy from Nokia's pantry.
  • DazzeL190 13 Feb 2011 13:30:58 88 posts
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    Has any of the slivered actually used WP7?

    In terms of smoothness of the touch screen, speed of browser and quality of the keyboard it's second only (and marginally) to iPhone 4.

    The basics are brilliant - the platform just works. The trouble with Android is that it chugs at times even on the beast of a phone that is the Desire HD.

    If Microsoft can retain the Apple quality feel whilst adding more features and growing the marketplace they are on to a winner IMO. Having Nokia on board works for both. MS have struggled to penetrate and now they have Nokia's brand recognition to give them a leg up. Nokia's Symbian is dire at the high end and now they have a great OS to help differentiate them.
  • RichieTenenbaum 13 Feb 2011 15:24:40 2,207 posts
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    Considering Nokia's R&D spend, I can't believe Symbian isn't better. It surely can't be that hard to nail a mobile OS when you also make the devices. Palm did it with much less money and time to chuck at the problem.

    Glad they didn't choose Android, though. After owning and hating two droid phones, I can't see me going back for the foreseeable future.

    Nokia still make exceptional basic phones, though.
  • grey_matters 13 Feb 2011 15:38:33 3,723 posts
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    RichieTenenbaum wrote:
    Considering Nokia's R&D spend, I can't believe Symbian isn't better. It surely can't be that hard to nail a mobile OS when you also make the devices. Palm did it with much less money and time to chuck at the problem.

    Glad they didn't choose Android, though. After owning and hating two droid phones, I can't see me going back for the foreseeable future.

    Nokia still make exceptional basic phones, though.
    The R&D spend includes all the network stuff too though. There are a lot of patents owned by Nokia on that side of the industry.
  • robthehermit 13 Feb 2011 16:01:51 4,069 posts
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    The N8 rocks. It's easily the best Nokia phone I've had, and I've been through a lot of them. I was tempted by WP7 as an OS, but the hardware just didn't do it for me.

    So Nokia hardware with Windows Phone OS = my next handset.

    GT: robthehermit

    Velim esset mundus iustus futuis procul et mori.

  • grey_matters 13 Feb 2011 17:26:44 3,723 posts
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    Some more developments:
    Intel prepare to display a working Meego phone (probably designed by Aava)

    Nokia employee blogger claims Meego is ready now.

    I guess the mass market is different to what I'd like but I do find Elop's choice a bit strange.
  • Dan234 13 Feb 2011 21:38:33 2,232 posts
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    PearOfAnguish wrote:
    Vice.Destroyer wrote:
    Dan234 wrote:
    And Nokia still have to pay WP7 licensing fees for the privilege.

    IT's not that I don't believe you, but have you got a source for that?

    This is true, can't find the link right now but Elop got very cagey when asked about licenses and said something about "value going both ways". Which I took to mean they get a reduced license and MS gets to have Nokia Maps and whatever else they fancy from Nokia's pantry.

    Here it is...

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_more_details/
  • mcmonkeyplc 13 Feb 2011 22:03:49 39,456 posts
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    Turns out android costs quite a bit to OEMs as well.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • urban 13 Feb 2011 22:18:01 10,945 posts
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    Nokia will fade away imo. The fact that employee's staged a walk out because they were concerned that Symbian employee's would be cut loose is absurd. Surely even the coders know it's hideous?
  • Vice.Destroyer 13 Feb 2011 22:30:19 5,832 posts
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    Cheers Dan234. That's a very pessimistic article there. Not sure I agree with the whole 'partnering with Microsoft is bad' slant that the article had. (speaking from the charmed position of ignorance. Didn't even know that Palm and Sony Ericsson had already had failed Microsoft partnerships behind them)

    Sometimes, bold decisions have to be made. And if their HUGE outlay on R&D is not producing something that can realistically make them a contender in the smartphone market, well, a Microsoft tie-up may not be such a bad idea.

    My contract expires christmas 2011. I'll see what iPhone 5 is like this summer. And then see what the new Nokia phones, the W7 marketplace and the corresponding contracts look like, before I decide on my next phone.
  • Psychotext 13 Feb 2011 23:56:27 54,163 posts
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    urban wrote:
    The fact that employee's staged a walk out because they were concerned that Symbian employee's would be cut loose is absurd.
    99% of the people who had a half day were Symbian employees at the Tampere campus (related, people were initially reporting Tampere would be shut down completely). You make it sound like the whole company walked out. :p
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