The Amazing Spider-Man Page 23

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  • Derblington 7 Feb 2012 12:29:10 21,506 posts
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    So then your issue isn't the origin, it's the sequence it's presented, which is entirely my point. EVERY superhero franchise film's first outing is an origin story, not expecting this to do so is lunacy.
  • Tom_Servo 7 Feb 2012 12:31:02 17,573 posts
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    Flightrisker wrote:
    Tom_Servo wrote:
    Flightrisker wrote:
    Not sure why people are so pent up about this. If you don't find the idea of watching this film interesting, instead of letting the idea of a reboot fill you with dread, just don't watch it. There's more good films to watch than you have time to watch so just go watch something else.
    I'd like to watch a good Spider-Man film though.
    Well you all seem to have decided that this is not going to be it so instead of just pissing all over what we assume this film will cover why not either wait and see how it is when it comes out or just accept that you're right and it's gonna be shit and just go look forward to something else.
    The trailer pretty firmly establishes that this is going to spend a lot of time covering the origin, it's not like we've pulled something from thin air here. I'm arguing that I don't want to spend time on that. It's as much a wider point about other comic-book films as it is about Spider-Man, though in this case it's a bit worse because we had to sit through the origin not all that long ago.
  • kalel 7 Feb 2012 12:32:58 87,180 posts
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    Just to clarify, in case I wasn't being clear, there's nothing wrong with a new version, simply (again) that this is coming too soon for us to take any kind of reboot in its own context.

    My problem isn't that it's too similar. It could be about a 6 year old disabled black alien Islamic-fundamentalist split-personality Spider-Man, shot in reverse, black and white, silent and X rated, it would still be too soon.
  • Deleted user 7 February 2012 12:33:51
    Derblington wrote:
    EVERY superhero franchise film's first outing is an origin story, not expecting this to do so is lunacy.
    Not expecting it to do so in huge detail less than a decade after it was already done isn't exactly lunacy.

    (PS - Incredible Hulk, Punisher: War Zone)
  • Gearskin 7 Feb 2012 12:36:15 2,045 posts
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    meme wrote:
    I'm making an awful lot of assumptions based on the trailers and information that have been released thus far. You glomping around going 'BUT I SAW SOMETHING THAT SAYS DIFFERENTLY' without actually going into any detail doesn't change that.
    I already told you the catalyst for Spiderman's creation has changed in a fairly big way and you shot it down. You say you don't want to see the same thing, but protest the idea that this isn't the same thing. Like a maniac. But if you want a list of hefty spoilers...

    - Dr Conners knew Peter's parents
    - Peter's Dad was some kind of genetic scientist
    - Peter befriends Dr Conners and gets bitten by a spider at his lab
    - He goes through the motions of becoming Spiderman, using his smarts to create web shooters and getting to grips with his mutation. He becomes a cocky vigilante and quickly falls foul of the police.
    - Peter, being a budding scientist himself, uses the knowledge of his own transformation to help Dr Conners with his regenerative formula, which he intends to use to grow his arm back.
    - Peter fucks up, and The Lizard is created


    I'm reaching with some of the above, but this is the direction the film appears to be going in. And Peter Parker doesn't come off like a socially akward geek in this, just more of a loner. When a bully asks him to take pictures of his beating up another kid, he doesn't do it. He stands up for himself and the other kid and takes a kicking because of it. Totally unlike the Peter Parker we saw in Raimi's films.
  • spamdangled 7 Feb 2012 12:36:35 27,276 posts
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    I'm pretty certain they've confirmed it isn't spending too much time on the origin, instead focussing more on his superspy parents.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • kalel 7 Feb 2012 12:37:09 87,180 posts
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    meme wrote:
    Derblington wrote:
    EVERY superhero franchise film's first outing is an origin story, not expecting this to do so is lunacy.
    Not expecting it to do so in huge detail less than a decade after it was already done isn't exactly lunacy.

    (PS - Incredible Hulk, Punisher: War Zone)
    Itís really not true anyway. An origin story btw is defined by the filmís arc being structured around the origin of the character. Not every superhero first film does this.

    Burtonís Batman for example doesnít do this. Just because thereís a brief flashback to his parents being killed does not make this an origin story.
  • Deckard1 7 Feb 2012 12:38:16 27,773 posts
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    His parents are spys?

    Jesus Christ.

    Hush you ponce

  • Deleted user 7 February 2012 12:41:06
    I love kalel
  • Flightrisker 7 Feb 2012 12:44:07 18,138 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Just to clarify, in case I wasn't being clear, there's nothing wrong with a new version, simply (again) that this is coming too soon for us to take any kind of reboot in its own context.

    My problem isn't that it's too similar. It could be about a 6 year old disabled black alien Islamic-fundamentalist split-personality Spider-Man, shot in reverse, black and white, silent and X rated, it would still be too soon.
    Von Trier's already casting for that.
  • kalel 7 Feb 2012 12:45:31 87,180 posts
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    Also, you canít just ignore the whole reason this film was made is so that the rights donít revert back to Marvel. Itís being made out of legal necessity, not any kind of marketing strategy, and certainly not a creative one.
  • nickthegun 7 Feb 2012 12:45:54 59,537 posts
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    I think the thing a lot of people are missing is the fact that people arent saying origin=shit but origin=boring.

    Im sure that it will be a decent movie, but im at the stage of my life now where I have heard every origin story 4 to 5 thousand times.

    And, unless the director has lost his mind, uncle ben HAS to die. There is literally no way around it as its the cornerstone of his entire adult life.

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  • Derblington 7 Feb 2012 12:48:29 21,506 posts
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    meme wrote:
    Not expecting it to do so in huge detail less than a decade after it was already done isn't exactly lunacy.

    (PS - Incredible Hulk, Punisher: War Zone)
    I don't remember War Zone, largely because it was dire, but if you tell me that it doesn't cover his motivation to be the punisher during the film or have any ties to it through any characters other than Castle himself then so be it.

    The Incredible Hulk covers the actual filming of the origin in the credit sequence. Then it spends the rest of the film going over why he's on the run, the people involved/he left behind, their reunion, a return to exact location it happened, the twist is revealed that the original experiment was in fact Ross's secret plan to create a new super soldier, therefor paving a way for the experiemnt to be carried out again with a few tweaks in the creation of Abomination.

    It's an origin story through and through, told out of sequence.
  • Deleted user 7 February 2012 12:48:43
    kalel wrote:
    Also, you canít just ignore the whole reason this film was made is so that the rights donít revert back to Marvel. Itís being made out of legal necessity, not any kind of marketing strategy, and certainly not a creative one.
    I was under the impression that the cinematic rights -had- reverted to Marvel, but they slung the production back out to Sony because they have their hands far too full with everything else.

    But either way, you're spot on. It's absolutely being done solely because of the rights, not because everyone's clamouring for more Spidey. Especially after the shitfest that was 3.
  • nickthegun 7 Feb 2012 12:51:03 59,537 posts
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    Punisher fucking things up with brief flash backs to his family getting murdered = showing motivation

    Peter Parker getting bitten by a spider, going through the trials and tribulations of getting used to his powers, deloping relationships with all the main characters and his uncle dying = origin

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  • Deleted user 7 February 2012 12:52:06
    Derblington wrote:
    I don't remember War Zone, largely because it was dire, but if you tell me that it doesn't cover his motivation to be the punisher during the film or have any ties to it through any characters other than Castle himself then so be it.
    They talk about how he was a decorated soldier and that his family were gunned down by mobsters in a single line. That's about it.
  • Tom_Servo 7 Feb 2012 12:53:17 17,573 posts
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    Derblington: People aren't saying that all origins are shit by their very nature. That Incredible Hulk one you described sounds fine. It's origins that take up half the film that are the problem.
  • Derblington 7 Feb 2012 12:54:33 21,506 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Itís really not true anyway. An origin story btw is defined by the filmís arc being structured around the origin of the character. Not every superhero first film does this.

    Burtonís Batman for example doesnít do this. Just because thereís a brief flashback to his parents being killed does not make this an origin story.
    Surely by Napier killing Bruce's parents and Batman dropping Napier into the vat, with the reveal between both characters at the end of the film, the arc of the film is entirely brought about to be structured around the origin of the character?
  • nickthegun 7 Feb 2012 12:55:27 59,537 posts
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    Interesting fact: By mentioning the Kobyashi Maru situation at the beginning of the film, The Wrath of Khan is actually kirks origin story.

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  • Deleted user 7 February 2012 12:57:06
    Tom_Servo wrote:
    Derblington: People aren't saying that all origins are shit by their very nature. That Incredible Hulk one you described sounds fine. It's origins that take up half the film that are the problem.
    Yeah, like I said, drop in the film when he's wrasslin' spidey and flesh out any changes to the formula that's known by pretty-much-everyone-including-remote-tribes-in-deepest-darkest-peru through implication, not explicit 'THIS IS HOW IT HAPPENED HURR' linear nonsense.

    Though to be fair, if you don't make things explicit in films the unwashed masses tend to not understand them. And even when they are reasonably explicit they still scratch their heads like chimps figuring out pokey sticks (see - Inception).
  • nickthegun 7 Feb 2012 12:58:16 59,537 posts
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    To be fair, the burton film is an origin of sorts, albeit the origin of how he became the publicly known Batman, rather than how he became Batman himself.

    Which is a tale not previously told on film and therefore not boring.

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  • Gearskin 7 Feb 2012 13:03:14 2,045 posts
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    ... So who is hitting the Imax for this on Day One?
  • Deleted user 7 February 2012 13:05:28
    You, most likely
  • Deleted user 7 February 2012 13:06:03
    Even Smallville managed to start without doing the whole 'this is Krypton, watch it explode, watch Jor-El save Kal-el' stuff right from the off. Meteor shower, adolescent Clark, done.

    But they then did spend ten painful seasons covering it in hideously boring detail after that, so probably not the best example to use.

    Hoping the new Supes film takes the Birthright approach, and more or less skips the Smallville years entirely.
  • nickthegun 7 Feb 2012 13:08:24 59,537 posts
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    Or Superman: Year One which is probably the most interesting of the hundreds of reinterpretations ive read recently.

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  • varsas 7 Feb 2012 13:08:47 2,401 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    His parents are spys?

    Jesus Christ.
    And? It is part of the canon.


    Gearskin wrote:
    ... So who is hitting the Imax for this on Day One?
    Unfortunately it looks like it's Imax 3D; I'd love to see it in Imax 2D :S

    Edited by varsas at 13:15:50 07-02-2012
  • Derblington 7 Feb 2012 13:12:44 21,506 posts
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    meme wrote:
    Though to be fair, if you don't make things explicit in films the unwashed masses tend to not understand them. And even when they are reasonably explicit they still scratch their heads like chimps figuring out pokey sticks (see - Inception).
    Right, and it's different things to different age groups too - this will be kid's first Spiderman film.

    The other thing about origin tales is that they cut to the heart of the character, his challenges, and establish that director's take on it all. They repeat the big beats but change the smaller stuff.
  • Deleted user 7 February 2012 13:18:35
    We still dont know for certain if the origin story is a huge part of the film. The web swinging looks way better then Raimis version as well, some of it is actual stunt work not just a CGI blob.
  • Deleted user 7 February 2012 13:19:41
    Another postitive is Emma Stone is actually fit as Gwen Stacy whilst Kirsten Dunst was awful as MJ.
  • CosmicFuzz 7 Feb 2012 13:20:01 23,950 posts
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    They're also boring when you know the beginning middle and end inside out.

    Our month-long focus on indie games starts with my look at the PS4's best game (still): Resogun!

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