The Budget Gaming PC thread Page 82

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  • Sharzam 1 Oct 2012 08:14:17 2,133 posts
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    @Iain815
    The license is bound to the motherboard if you install it on a system with different motherboard you will need t follow an activation process. Using the microsoft phone line it is possible it will activate on a new system. But it is not guarntee as the manufacter eg Dell, might only of ever used it on xxx motherboard.

    I have a general OEM version, was orginal in a AMD system but then i rebuilt and went to intel and it activated fine. Not saying it will be the same for all OEM licenses.

    Known as 'Sharzam' in 98.5% of games

  • Leolian 3 Oct 2012 16:16:48 1,054 posts
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    Ok. I just bought a 2nd hand 260GTX for £30 on ebay to try as a dedicated physx card. Not that bothered about most physx games, although BL2 looks great with physx, but I love tinkering with this sort of thing. I'll let you know how it goes. I've got a 7870 as main card btw.
  • Leolian 4 Oct 2012 09:33:10 1,054 posts
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    In case anyone's interested
    This is a great summary of the benefits of using an older graphics cards for dedicated physx. Bit hobbyist rather than vital but interesting nonetheless.
  • Salaman 4 Oct 2012 09:46:21 18,277 posts
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    Is that new AMD chip out yet? I want to order a new PC but I'm hoping to wait a few days for price drops or at least the newest line processor for the money.

    /taps foot
  • sport 4 Oct 2012 09:59:13 12,064 posts
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    Salaman wrote:
    Is that new AMD chip out yet? I want to order a new PC but I'm hoping to wait a few days for price drops or at least the newest line processor for the money.

    /taps foot
    Nearly available - the A10-5800K - £97 - http://www.ebuyer.com/398761-amd-a10-5800k-black-edition-3-8ghz-socket-fm2-4mb-l2-cache-retail-ad580kwohjbox

    Apparently it outperforms an i3 with a discrete NVidia GT 630 - all for under £100. Now we're in budget territory if you ask me.
  • PenguinJim 4 Oct 2012 10:05:45 5,479 posts
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    Leolian wrote:
    In case anyone's interested
    This is a great summary of the benefits of using an older graphics cards for dedicated physx. Bit hobbyist rather than vital but interesting nonetheless.
    http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1668490
    "By repurposing a piece of five-year-old kit gathering dust on a shelf we’ve boosted our Batman: Arkham City frame rates by 11.56%, pushing the GTX 560 Ti into the forty frames per second sweet spot when using every single effect and enhancement (if you don’t already own a 8800 GT or 9800 GT, they’re cheap as chips on eBay). Another popular, ageing graphics card, the GeForce GTX 260, improved frame rates by 17.55%, and a second GTX 560 improved frame rates by 23.71%."

    Second-hand quote, but I do have a G92 lying around, a 560 installed, and Arkham City ready and unplayed. ~10% FPS boost worth the five minutes to install + the extra heat..? It's pondertime.
  • Leolian 4 Oct 2012 10:21:36 1,054 posts
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    Well, if you have an ATI card it's definately worthwile as the gains will be much higher. I personally wouldn't bother if you already have a decent, recent nvidia card.
  • Salaman 4 Oct 2012 10:22:25 18,277 posts
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    My aging PC has been acting up (overheating and shutting down) I have a tax refund coming at the end of this month, so I think I'd rather buy a new PC.

    I upgraded my graphics card 3 years ago. To a SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON HD4870 1GB GDDR5 TV-OUT/DUAL DVI HDMI PCI-EXPRESS. (sorry for the caps .. copy pasted from the order confirmation mail).

    If I get a new system custom built, is it worth ordering it without a card and sticking this one in? Or is even the cheapest card currently on offer going to trash this one?
  • Sandbox 4 Oct 2012 11:00:35 339 posts
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    @Salaman

    This site is quite useful for seeing how older stuff compares.

    Your current card sits between 7750 and 7770, but will lack some of the modern features.

    So, no your card is still better than the cheapest current stuff, but any mid-range card will be better.

    http://www.hwcompare.com/11814/radeon-hd-4870-512mb-vs-radeon-hd-7750/

    Edited by Sandbox at 11:00:58 04-10-2012
  • Salaman 4 Oct 2012 11:05:31 18,277 posts
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    Cool link, thanks!
  • overcorpse 4 Oct 2012 11:52:27 239 posts
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    I've been out of the PC hardware arms race for a good 6 years and i would like your thoughts on this pre built system i found and bought.

    AMD FX4170 @ 4.2Ghz
    Asus M5A7Al-M/USB3 motherboard.
    8 gig PC3-12800 (1600 MHz)
    1 TB HD
    VTX Radeon HD 7850
    750w PSU (no name given)
    Windows 7 Home Edition 64 upgradable to Windows 8

    The price was £540 and i was well chuffed as this was £60 under my budget but then i started to hear horror stories about the AMD FX chip,now i'm in 2 minds about whether to cancel.Seeing as Xmas is fast approaching there's not going to be any extra money in the pot for a while.

    Nerf paper,scissors are fine as they are. - Rock.

  • Sandbox 4 Oct 2012 12:22:07 339 posts
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    @overcorpse

    The chip is just fine, it is actually Tom Hardware's gaming chip of choice at this price. This seems like a balanced system that will play anything you throw at it.

    Just check you cannot get the 7870 for a few extra quid, as you will gain a few FPS for little money.
  • Salaman 4 Oct 2012 12:55:59 18,277 posts
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    I've been lusting over machines at Novatech this morning.

    AMD 760G Chipset Motherboard
    AMD FX-4 4100
    4GB DDR3 1333MHz
    500GB SATA HDD
    ATI 6570 1GB
    £340

    Micro ATX Intel H61 Chipset Motherboard
    Intel Core i5 3330
    8GB DDR3 1333Mhz
    1TB 6GB/s SATA HDD
    NVIDIA GT 620 1GB
    £445

    GIGABYTE GA-970A-DS3 AMD 970 Motherboard
    AMD FX-6100
    8GB DDR3 1333Mhz
    1TB SATA HDD
    ATI 7850 1GB
    £555

    There's also a setup with an SSD and a 2 TB HDD but that's pushing it above what I want to spend on a new PC really. Too bad.

    ATX Form Factor with Intel Z77 Express Chipset Motherboard
    Intel Core i5 3550
    8GB 1333Mhz DDR3
    2TB SATA Hard Drive
    Crucial 128GB SSD Hard Drive
    NVIDIA GTX 650 1GB Graphics
    £690

    If it wasn't for the new AMD A10 that's about to come out I'd probably buy the 445 or 555 one now.
  • RunningMan 4 Oct 2012 12:59:24 2,357 posts
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    @overcorpse, where did you find this system?
  • overcorpse 4 Oct 2012 13:20:55 239 posts
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    @RunningMan I found it here

    @Sandbox thanks for the reassurance.As for upgrading to the HD7870 thats a no go i'm afraid,i could of gone for a GTX660 for a bit more money but after trawling the net the conclusion i got was the HD 7850 could be overclocked quite well.As found here here

    Edited by overcorpse at 13:24:59 04-10-2012

    Nerf paper,scissors are fine as they are. - Rock.

  • FutileResistor 4 Oct 2012 18:13:33 1,210 posts
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    @overcorpse

    I can't recommend going AMD for your system. An i3-3220 would outperform the FX-4 4100 in games and you should be able to get a i3-3220 based system for the same price or cheaper.

    Without shopping around I priced up the following at Scan

    Gigabyte GA-H61MA-D2V £40
    i3-3220 £135
    MSI Radeon 7850 £135
    Corsair 430 PSU £37
    8GB Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz £32
    2TB Seagate £70

    so £419 for a better system based around Intel Ivy bridge.

    You can use Windows 8 pre-release while waiting for it to come out and it should be around £40 at launch.

    Edit - Forgot the case, so add around £30 for a generic case and DVDROM/Writer.

    Edited by FutileResistor at 19:49:44 04-10-2012
  • andytheadequate 4 Oct 2012 18:26:25 7,975 posts
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    @overcorpse - where did you find that? Seems a decent price. Not much worse than one I saw at nearly 900 quid earlier today
  • FutileResistor 4 Oct 2012 19:41:17 1,210 posts
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    Sandbox wrote:
    @overcorpse

    The chip is just fine, it is actually Tom Hardware's gaming chip of choice at this price. This seems like a balanced system that will play anything you throw at it.

    Just check you cannot get the 7870 for a few extra quid, as you will gain a few FPS for little money.

    If Tom's hardware are recommending FX 4170 over an i3-3220 for gaming, they're crazy. If the FX 4170 was cheaper they might have a point but it's not.

    An Ivy Bridge i3-3220 or even a Sandy Bridge i3-2120 will comfortably outperform a FX 4170 in gaming. Also the intel gives you an upgrade path to an i5 if needed.


    Edited for link

    FX 4100 v i3-2100

    Edited by FutileResistor at 19:46:01 04-10-2012
  • superdelphinus 4 Oct 2012 20:42:20 7,281 posts
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    @overcorpse I chose the 7850 for the same reason
  • Sandbox 4 Oct 2012 20:46:30 339 posts
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    @FutileResistor

    There is little doubt that Intel's current CPU architecture has better performance per clock that AMD's FX. But it's not that simple. AMD give you more clocks 4.2 vs 3.3 and that's just enough to pull even with the i3. Plus you can over-clock the AMD if you like which just makes it more fun. The AMD uses more juice, but in a gaming rig, it's not a big deal.

    Your budget comparison is also a little unfair. The AMD system is built, has Windows 7/8 and a much better motherboard supporting USB 3 and SATA 6, features I would not exclude on any build now, and comes with the support of the builders guarantee.

    In terms of future upgrades the AM3+ platform will get piledriver and steamroller CPU's, which based on the performance of the new trinity (piledriver core) APU's will bring AMD much closer to Intel's performance.

    In truth for gaming you cannot really go wrong, Intel will give a bit better performance, AMD have to compete on value and features, either is fine, so long as you have a fast quad core, it's your GPU that will define the performance of your games.

    I have an old X6 AMD, I built my wife an i5, both with ATI 6870's, both perform about the same.
  • FutileResistor 4 Oct 2012 21:09:21 1,210 posts
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    I hope AMD is competitive in the future but Bulldozer has been terrible. It's impossible to recommend AMD FX chips just now and piledriver/steamroller is in the future.

    I don't blame AMD, Intel are a much bigger company and spend more on R&D each year than AMD make in profits. AMD did well to compete as long as they did.

    My point is that I can't recommend an AMD FX system over Ivy/Sandy bridge. You can get a pre-built system just changing the FX for an i3 and it would be better and around the same price.

    I take your point on the motherboard, the GA-H61MA-D2V has USB3 but only SATA II. However, a MSI Z77A-G41 has both and is only £65.
  • overcorpse 4 Oct 2012 22:53:56 239 posts
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    @FutileResistor I do appreciate you have taken the time to do a parts list and given me your valid points of view but i should of stressed in my original post that i have 0 interest in self build,I did all that in my youth (late twenties) but now i'm 41 with kids and a tight budget so all i want is something that works out of the box,gives me decent performance and has a semi decent warranty.

    Bearing in mind that getting a new PC will not stop me being a console tard but it will be a nice option to have as there are some interesting games on the horizon for PC and i would like to be able to check them out.

    Anyways thanks for your input,it is appreciated.

    Edited by overcorpse at 01:20:19 05-10-2012

    Nerf paper,scissors are fine as they are. - Rock.

  • coastal 9 Oct 2012 08:12:42 5,372 posts
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    I'd appreciate a recommendation for a motherboard for an i5 3450 (though i'm only choosing that because it's on a Scan offer).

    It's been a long time since I built a PC and I'm confused over the variation of 1155 boards. Z77, H77, B75, Z68, P67, H67 or H61. What??

    It's only for BF3 and the like. No cards apart from the gfx card going in. Any recommendations on memory sticks would be nice too. Oh i need 3 on board usb points and 1 usb3 point for the front of the case.

    Edited by coastal at 08:18:19 09-10-2012

    bf3: sergeant_shaftoe

  • Maturin 9 Oct 2012 08:23:51 2,753 posts
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    coastal wrote:
    I'd appreciate a recommendation for a motherboard for an i5 3450 (though i'm only choosing that because it's on a Scan offer).

    It's been a long time since I built a PC and I'm confused over the variation of 1155 boards. Z77, H77, B75, Z68, P67, H67 or H61. What??

    It's only for BF3 and the like. No cards apart from the gfx card going in. Any recommendations on memory sticks would be nice too. Oh i need 3 on board usb points and 1 usb3 point for the front of the case.
    Some of those chipsets are Ivy Bridge only, some support the older Sandy Bridge CPUs. Also they differ in embedded graphics support and USB 3.

    There's a handy comparison chart here at Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1155

    I'm about to get a new PC with an ivy Bridge i5 or i7 and I'm only looking at Z77 boards.
  • coastal 9 Oct 2012 08:44:39 5,372 posts
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    Thanks Doc.

    bf3: sergeant_shaftoe

  • andytheadequate 9 Oct 2012 10:33:04 7,975 posts
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    Can someone give me some advice on whether this pc is any good: http://www.cclonline.com/product/82442/NoMfgCode/All-CCL-Desktops/CCL-Elite-Hawk-II-Gaming-PC/CCL-EL-HWK2/

    With windows and the radeon 7850 graphics card it is £555.
  • mikew1985 9 Oct 2012 10:52:59 12,133 posts
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    Seems a bit much for a machine with that processor tbh.

    Is self build totally out of the question?
    Bear in mind it is like electronic lego and therefor e a fun experience in itself.
  • Salaman 9 Oct 2012 11:01:50 18,277 posts
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    sport wrote:
    Salaman wrote:
    Is that new AMD chip out yet? I want to order a new PC but I'm hoping to wait a few days for price drops or at least the newest line processor for the money.

    /taps foot
    Nearly available - the A10-5800K - £97 - http://www.ebuyer.com/398761-amd-a10-5800k-black-edition-3-8ghz-socket-fm2-4mb-l2-cache-retail-ad580kwohjbox

    Apparently it outperforms an i3 with a discrete NVidia GT 630 - all for under £100. Now we're in budget territory if you ask me.
    Now just waiting for the sites that do custom builds to catch up and add it to their options. I'm almost tempted to buy it and try to self build.
    Although I'll probably either ruin some of the hardware outright or make a mess of putting it all together properly and getting it to perform normally, so I think I'll sit tight for now.
  • Salaman 9 Oct 2012 11:15:22 18,277 posts
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    HA! Found one. http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk

    Case
    COOLERMASTER ELITE 311 BLUE CASE

    Processor (CPU)
    AMD A10-5800K Quad Core APU (3.8GHz) & Radeon™ HD 7660D Graphics

    Motherboard
    ASUS® F2A85-M: (M-ATX, DDR3, USB 3.0, 6Gb/s)

    Memory (RAM)
    8GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 4GB)

    Graphics Card
    Integrated AMD Radeon HD 7000 Series Graphics

    Memory - 1st Hard Disk
    120GB KINGSTON V+200 SSD, SATA 6 Gb (535MB/R, 460MB/W) (Special Offer)

    1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
    24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

    Memory Card Reader
    INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT

    Power Supply
    450W Quiet 80 PLUS Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan

    Processor Cooling
    SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE AMD CPU COOLER (£19)

    Sound Card
    ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)

    Network Facilities
    10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT - AS STANDARD ON ALL PCs

    USB Options
    6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL (MIN 2 FRONT PORTS) AS STANDARD

    Came to £441

    My current PC has a 500GB HDD and a 1TB HDD. So I figure I put in an SSD and then add these two, or possibly only yhe 1TB one to it once I receive it.
    I assume adding in a 2nd grpahics card isn't needed if the APU includes one?
    I have a windows 7 that I bought, which I assume I can install on this system since my old one died. I think it's an upgrade version. It might make a fuss if I try to install it on a new system without a previous windows on it. We'll see.

    I added some extra cooling, changed the motherboard from default (USB3 3GB/s) to the next one up (USB3 6GB/s), took 8Gb of Kingston RAM and a more powerful PSU than the 350Watt one inlcuded. Have I overlooked anything?

    /hovers over buy button keenly
  • sport 9 Oct 2012 11:20:29 12,064 posts
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    @Salaman - STOP - Make sure your RAM is 1600MHZ at least, preferably 1866MHZ. The AMD APU's get an amazing boost with faster memory.
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