Ridley Scott's Prometheus (spoilers within) Page 103

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  • Gambit1977 21 Dec 2012 22:35:51 10,287 posts
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    The only reason I can see for Guy Pearce playing Weyland was to have the younger version of him in the virals pre release.

    Fucking stupid idea to be honest.

    But to say Aliens has dated, is a poor relation etc etc, it makes me cry inside.
  • disusedgenius 21 Dec 2012 22:38:46 5,456 posts
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    I'm pretty sure the younger version of him was cut from the main film as well.

    Doesn't stop it being stupid, mind.
  • Gambit1977 21 Dec 2012 22:41:23 10,287 posts
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    I think there's a good half an hour at least missing somewhere.

    The shift from entering the pyramid to 'infection' is so jarring.
  • chopsen 21 Dec 2012 22:47:51 16,127 posts
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    The problem, in a nutshell, is that film tends to makes you go "hang on why is..." And not in a good way that, say, Lost does. But in a bad "are they stupid or something?" way.

    Obviously, it's a bit of fun and just some entertainment. But there's just something about it that makes you go "hang on..."
  • Gambit1977 21 Dec 2012 22:49:49 10,287 posts
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    Lost was 'water cooler' tv. Devised in such a way to promote conversation during break times at work, until the next episode came out.

    That format doesn't work in a single 2 hour movie.
  • MrE26 22 Dec 2012 11:33:57 1,963 posts
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    The whole thing is just way too vague for me. Beautiful looking & sounding film, & i don't mind having questions unresolved, but when the main unresolved question is "wtf was that about?" then you've got a problem.
  • WoodenSpoon 22 Dec 2012 15:13:33 12,292 posts
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    Maturin wrote:
    WoodenSpoon wrote:
    I'm serious. WHY DID WEYLAND PRETEND TO BE DEAD?
    He only had days left to live so went into hypersleep until the time he wanted to wake. This meant he would be gone for years. If he wasn't dead there would have been a lot of questions about where he was - given he was a famous person.
    Why not just tell everyone he was going in to hypersleep?
  • TarickStonefire 25 Dec 2012 13:44:32 3,251 posts
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    @WoodenSpoon You can ask questions like that about every single film in existence. At some point you just have to accept that stupid situations occur in films so as to create the events that happen in the film. Expecting logic in films is fruitless.

    As it happens, this film has more than its fair share of "why the fuck...?" questions to be asked. I just think this particular one isn't worth one more second of your time. He just didn't tell everyone, because he didn't want to, because he's a crazy old coot with Control Freak issues. Leave it at that :)

    The two biggest questions I continue to have are:

    1) why were most of the crew such fucking idiots? Almost everyone that died early on fully deserved to.

    Actually that's it. That's the only question I continue to have. Absolutely *terrible* writing to set up such a sophisticated arc (aliens created humans, some of them tried to communicate with us, others tried to later kill us, and now we know where they were hiding) and then cripple it by sending a crew full of dumb pricks to completely fuck it up. I mean I know a movie needs a few people making mistakes to push the plot forward but those guys fucked that entire film, really.

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • TarickStonefire 25 Dec 2012 13:47:24 3,251 posts
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    @MrE26
    when the main unresolved question is "wtf was that about?" then you've got a problem.
    Obviously everyone takes slightly different things away from films, but "wtf was that about?" is pretty easy to answer: it's about a rich dude using his money to exploit a well-meaning scientist and her dumb fuck boyfriend who deserves neither his job nor his girlfriend in order to extract more life for himself. And how terribly wrong it all goes because he sends a crew of fucking retards.

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • WoodenSpoon 25 Dec 2012 14:01:11 12,292 posts
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    TarickStonefire wrote:
    @WoodenSpoon You can ask questions like that about every single film in existence.
    No you really can't.
  • TarickStonefire 25 Dec 2012 14:04:56 3,251 posts
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    @WoodenSpoon Yeah you can. Things that don't really make sense except within the rules of cinema - i.e., because that's what happened and that's that - are everywhere in film plots.

    Why did the Joker know that all his ridiculously detailed plans would all work out *just so* in terms of timing, allowing him to be at the right place at the right time every time? That's just one.

    :)

    EDIT: Okay, maybe not every film in existence. I'm sure there's some film somewhere that so boring that every single one of the decisions made by every single character were in no way illogical or defying common sense...


    If it's really, really bothering you, here's my take on it. This is pretty much what I thought while in the cinema and hasn't changed since then:

    Weyland was a crazy old control-freak power-hungry megalomaniac coot, with days left to live, and he secretly funded a secret spaceship mission that secretly went to a secret planet to ostensibly investigate the origins of mankind, but actually was sent so that he could try and learn the secrets of longer life from the aliens themselves.

    If he'd announced that was his goal he probably wouldn't have been able to recruit the idiot scientists that thought they were going for very different reasons. And if he'd announced his presence on the ship despite his closeness to death, it would have raised some awkward questions about the true goal of the mission.

    So he stayed incognito until the last possible moments.

    If he hadn't done so, the audience would be wondering why the supposedly smart scientists hadn't questioned why this almost-dead guy was sending himself into the deepest reaches of unexplored space.

    And if the crew *had* questioned this, and discovered the true answer, the film would have taken a very different tack I suspect.

    Anyway, he hid. That's what he did. Because that's the sort of crazy old man he was. Don't overthink it. That's just what happened.

    Edited by TarickStonefire at 14:12:58 25-12-2012

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • WoodenSpoon 25 Dec 2012 14:19:58 12,292 posts
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    It's the big twist where Weyland turns out to be alive and onboard the ship; if you're going to make that a crucial plot point then you have to have some justification for it (especially since his secretly being onboard would have been wholly sufficient for the story). As it is you get fuck all, and no one even bothers to question him.

    I mean I agree, this is just one of a million reasons the story is bollocks.
  • chopsen 25 Dec 2012 15:02:16 16,127 posts
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    @TarickStonefire

    Yeah, and that's what I part of what I took away from it too. That was so badly put across though, that you had to actively put work in to make sense of what is basically a very basic plot. There was a theme running through it about an how individual faced with questions about their own existence (if its mortal fear as per Wayland or questions of purpose and justification for the other characters) wants to confront their creator for answers. Compare the woman at the end going off in ship to confront the makers, Wayland commissioning the whole thing in the 1st place, the architects at the start seeking for answers, the android asking questions and justifications for his own life. The whole thing is so badly put across though that you have to actively work at it to make it coherent, and there is so much stuff that is just unnecessary complication and guff that it just makes it a dog's dinner of a film. A pretty dog's dinner, but still a dog's dinners.
  • ecu 25 Dec 2012 16:16:04 77,088 posts
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    Still didn't think the film was that bad. It definitely had problems but I enjoyed quite a lot of it. I've never had a problem with wanting everything explained, and actually sort of like being able to draw my own conclusions from vague plot details, which is probably why I loved Lost so much. I mostly just wish Prometheus had been less confusing with the xenomorph origins. I will definitely watch a sequel.
  • Khanivor 25 Dec 2012 16:24:53 40,959 posts
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    I adored Lost. Prometheus is wank. An earlier poster is right in that it would have worked better as a TV series to talk about. It fails as a film. Feel sorry for all those in production design and implementation to have been let down so badly by their director and his writers.
  • Gambit1977 25 Dec 2012 16:33:31 10,287 posts
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    Having watched it yet again, and then Dredd, I have to ask why a micro budget film can get casting so right, yet mega budget Prmetheus ends up with that Scottish woman who would stand out as a shit actress in the phantom menace!
  • TarickStonefire 25 Dec 2012 16:50:45 3,251 posts
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    @ecureuil Agree with you totally, except I didn't find e origins of the xenomorph that confusing, or rather, I sort of did but didn't think it was at all a problem. In fact I liked that it simply isn't anywhere near as clear cut as "Engineers did it".

    The thing that spoils it on repeated viewings is the wholly unnecessary inclusion of at least three complete fucktards on the crew: the bloke scientist, Rafe Spall, and the other one that buggered off with him when they got lost. Idiots.

    I firmly believe their stupidity was not necessary to further the plot, it was just lazy "lets have an idiot that conveniently and speedily but completely implausibly furthers the plot!" writing.

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • TarickStonefire 25 Dec 2012 16:51:53 3,251 posts
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    @Gambit1977 Isn't she just awful? Worst actress ever how the HELL did she get into the biggest scifi blockbuster of the year?!

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • RobAnybody 25 Dec 2012 17:24:29 929 posts
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    I've said it brefore and I'll say it again - Ridley Scott hasn't a CLUE what makes a truly great script; the guy is purely a visualist and the films that initially made his name (Alien and Blade Runner) were pure flukes. He just got lucky.

    Now he has his producers' finger in so many pies that he also can't dedicate himself to the production of one film at a time, and boy does it show.
  • MrE26 25 Dec 2012 19:02:50 1,963 posts
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    @TarickStonefire Yeah, i get the basic plot obviously, but the film offers no explanation for why things go tits up. The black liquid in the urns is the catalyst but it's function is never explained, & it seems to react differently each time we see it. I don't need to be spoonfed but leaving everything open to interpretation is pretty shitty storytelling. And don't even get me started on the 2 complete clowns who get left in the structure overnight.

    I didn't hate the film, i just found it frustrating to watch at times.
  • damagedinc 25 Dec 2012 22:03:56 909 posts
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    sadly if they just stuck to eggs/facehuggers and aliens with it being lv426 everyone would have been happy.

    sadly fox got involved, lindelof came in to change it and ultimatly he had to come up with something new. which is a odd mess that could maybe be solved with a better second film.
  • skuzzbag 25 Dec 2012 23:03:46 5,651 posts
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    I thought the film was great. Watched it again just now with the wife (her first time) and it pushes my buttons. Completely happy customer here but then I don't OVER FUCKING ANALYSE EVERYTHING!

    If you take out dickhead characters and stupid decisions of most sci-fi films you'd end up with a pretty pedestrian collection of films.

    Aliens is total crap when you watch it now but I still enjoy it.
  • Gambit1977 25 Dec 2012 23:06:41 10,287 posts
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    Aliens is not total crap if you watch it now! Wash your dirty mouth out!
  • skuzzbag 25 Dec 2012 23:12:50 5,651 posts
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    It's terrible. I was surprised that Arnie didn't pop up to be honest it's that cheesy.

    I still love it though it's one of my most watched films.

    Edited by skuzzbag at 23:17:50 25-12-2012
  • ecu 25 Dec 2012 23:37:30 77,088 posts
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    Aliens is still great, I rewatched it on blu ray recently and it's fantastic. The alien is such a wonderful monster you can't help but love it.
  • Gambit1977 25 Dec 2012 23:38:32 10,287 posts
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    skuzzbag wrote:
    It's terrible. I was surprised that Arnie didn't pop up to be honest it's that cheesy.

    I still love it though it's one of my most watched films.
    I can't converse with you, you've got issues!
  • skuzzbag 25 Dec 2012 23:44:35 5,651 posts
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    I am joking mind.
  • Gambit1977 25 Dec 2012 23:48:35 10,287 posts
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    Someone say something?
  • QotSAfan 26 Dec 2012 01:21:34 1,722 posts
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    Prometheus falls apart as a movie on so many levels. The writing is atrocious. None of the characters are developed. No ones motivations are made clear. Twists come out of nowhere with no logical or emotional reason. It obeys all of the most obvious cliches. It feels as though it is smart because it hints at philosophy without actually making any discussion about it. It is themeatically, artistically and emotionally all over the place.

    But the worst part about it is that you can see the creators thought process behind the whole thing as it plays out. That means it loses even the level of basic entertainment value as you get completely sucked out of its world. It is as if whoever wrote it went 'this sounds cool, lets put that in. Hmmm, just need some filler scenes to connect this with the other cool scene I wrote'.


    It is actually worse than the Star Wars prequels. Atrocious film making and it really shows how Scott doesn't care to put in the effort required to make movies theses days.
  • ecu 26 Dec 2012 01:37:49 77,088 posts
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    It's not great but it's not worse than that Star Wars prequels, c'mon.
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