@boo, the cave painting thing just doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny (see also: anything Lindelof has ever written). |
And Shaw seems to have been watching Ancient Angel Aliens type shows on the discovery channel too much.
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kalel wrote:I only read a few pages but, immediately, they cut something which then created a fundamental plot hole: the scarab biting the cave woman.
Once you take that out, everything on earth has the engineers DNA.
He totally called it
I've read most of the script now and I have to say, it's dissapointing that Scott didn't keep the faith with it a bit more. OK, it's a bit cheesy in places, but plot wise it holds together far better, and the links to Alien are much more satisfying. |
Yes, it's an Alien film, but realistically so is Prometheus. If he didn't want to make an Alien prequel, then there was that option, but the links were never severed, just weakened, and that doesn't really achieve anything.
For example, in this script, the planet IS LV-426. And of course it is! Why wouldn't it be? Why change that? What have you achieved by changing that?
Again, the only explanation really is that he didn't want to blow his load with one film and there's more story left to fill ni the gaps, and fine, but still, Lindelof has simply turned a cohesive script into a confusing one. A strange thing to do.
|Where can one read the script?|
Come and get it cumslingers!
|In the link I provided.|
Come and get it cumslingers!
To be fair it's also quite a bit siller in terms of the action that Lindelof's version. It wouldn't have been a serious brooding sci-fi epic of the type Scott wanted to make. It would have been a bit more Phantom Menace. |
Still. There's a middle ground somehwere.
Pretty good read about the older script.
Still to read the script, looking forward to it...|
If they'd used LV-426 it stands to reason that they'd put a big red marker on it with "don't terraform this place" after Prometheus disappeared though?
AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017
kalel wrote:Totally agree with this. Why did they pretend that Prometheus isn't an Alien film, only to indulge in an orgy of Alien stuff at the end? It's even worse for the audience unfamiliar with the Alien films. They certainly won't be back for the next part.
The script has now gone so I didn't get to read it all, but I got far enough to see it drops into the usual Alien theme of picking people off in different ways. In spite of that, at least it makes sense.
David is a bit less interesting but its behaviour also makes a whole lot more sense - being able to see things we cannot for instance, which explains a lot of the things it subsequently does, whereas the film bollocks about studying 100s of ancient languages really doesn't. Nor did it's ability to shoot a basket while riding a bike. Did they anticipate Alien fans cooing over David and saying 'he's the best thing about the film' (as many did!)
The scarab beetle thing is also less interesting but makes more sense.
Edited by Bremenacht at 01:06:56 15-11-2012
Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day
Summary if you don't fancy reading the script.|
Spoilers, obviously for both PROMETHEUS and this screenplay:
There's no black goo. The initial transformation is done by a black cake that transforms into thousands of tiny black scarabs that bite the Engineer, consuming its DNA. Once the Engineer is completely consumed, the scarabs scatter and fly away. one lands on a primitive woman, and bites her. Her DNA begins to shift.
Shaw is named Watts. the Prometheus is named the Magellan. Holloway is actually a character. Their discovery is made underwater, looking at an Obelisk with Engineer glyphs. Research leads to them discovering the star map, as opposed to lining up a bunch of different pictures of five dots in a row.
They approach Weyland with their research to pitch him on paying for the expedition. Weyland never leaves Earth, and does not join their expedition. Vickers is not his daughter. He agrees to fund their expedition on the stipulation that if they find any technology there, Vickers takes over their operation and all technology belongs to him.
The expedition is to Zeta 2 Reticuli. The moon they land on is LV-426. The people who signed on signed on with no idea what they're exploring, but they signed on for Triple Pay.
David isn't altogether human looking - he's an early android model, and he has a very definite disdain for human-kind. He is programmed to follow orders until alien technology is found, and then he's programmed to get rid of Watts and Holloway as a means to protect the technological information Weyland is procuring.
Weyland doesn't want to know how to live forever. Weyland agrees to the expedition because he's been spending trillions trying to terraform Mars and it's not working right, and he believes he can reverse engineer the terraforming pyramids on LV-426. It is explained that the pyramids on Earth are likely human kinds attempt to replicate the Engineer pyramids. The "Jesus was an engineer" theory is brought up, but only as a throwaway joke and never mentioned again.
Fifield & Milburn aren't scared because they found a dead engineer, they're scared because the recording/apparitions are large, and loud, and screaming in a very deep voice. Fifield wants to bug out, Holloway tells him he's gonna have to walk if he wants to bug out because he's not lending them one of the vehicles they drove out there with. (said vehicle is what David uses to open the door, as opposed to pulling a ladder out of his ass as in the movie)
Fifield & Milburn get lost because they forgot to bring a map-reading module with them, and communications are cut off once the silica storm blows in. The Engineers aren't just dead - they've been murdered. some slashed - some chestburst.
Holloway is not sad that the engineers are dead, nor is Watts a practicing Christian. They're both happy that they've made the most significant scientific discovery of mankind's history, at which point Janek toasts Fifield & Milburn to becoming the first humans to freak out, get lost and sleep in their suits on alien ruins.
Milburn is still attacked by the Hammerpede, but it doesn't break his arm to get in the suit, it just bleeds on the suit and crawls in through the hole. Fifield runs away, and is attacked by scarabs, who eat through the visor on his suit and start biting him, transferring xenomorph DNA into his body. He begins to mutate.
David and Vickers initiate their takeover of the mission once technology is discovered. Holloway and Watts are led to the discovery at gunpoint by armed Weyland mercenaries. Watts accidentally falls down a shaft after another Recording/Apparition startles him. He falls into an egg chamber (there are no pedestals in this version, only eggs) and a soft, squidlike facehugger oozes onto his helmet, eats through it, and impregnates him. He comes to shortly afterwards and wanders into the map room/pilot room.
Watts/David find him, bring him back to the ship. Holloway tells Watts he can figure out how to get back to the Engineers home world, as this is just a way-station, not their home planet. He tells her to keep the pilot room secret from the Weyland people. In celebration of this new secret, they have sex. In the middle of sex, an alien bursts out of his chest. It tries to attack Watts. She locks herself in a closet. The chestburster flattens, and begins to ooze/squeeze through the cracks in the door. Weyland employees hear her screaming, the chestburster escapes through a vent.
They go back out to raid more technology, while Janek & his crew want to find Fifield & Milburn. Watts uses the data from Holloway's suit to find the map room/pilot room. David intercepts her, and leads her to a different egg chamber. This chamber is filled with regular xenomorph eggs. A face hugger emerges. David plays with it like a pet while explaining that these eggs were designed by the Engineers as a means to wipe out earth, but the engineers on LV-426 did their jobs too well and were murdered by their creation. He then lets the facehugger go, and it impregnates Watts.
Watts wakes up alone, and wanders back to the ship, sneaking into Vickers room and using her medpod. The medpod scene plays essentially the same, except midway through the cesarean, the chestbuster chews itself out anyway, and escapes through a hatch at the bottom of the medpod. The medpod locks itself down and repairs Vickers over the course of about 3 or 4 hours. She fades in and out of consciousness. The chestburster grows in size. A crewmember enters the room. It kills. It feeds. It grows exponentially, and molts/morphs, shedding skin and growing protrusions. She comes to just as the medpod is about to eject her, while the Alien is still in the room with her. She takes the dead man's gun and shoots the Alien in the head as it lunges for her.
The other chestburster has also grown, and is essentially boneless, pale, translucent xenomorph variant. It can morph between solid/less solid forms, absorbing bullets and folding itself into tiny spaces. It is white/translucent, with a visible skull underneath it's elongated head.
David leads them to the ship, wakes up the last Engineer. they have a discussion. Apparently by waking up the Engineer, the stasis it was in will speed up the incubation of the chestburster residing inside it, but before it pops, he'll set that course for Earth after all. It rips David's head off and starts killing people. Fifield ambushes the Weyland employee trying to escort Vickers to safety, rips him up. Jumps on Vickers. The employee lives just long enough to unload his clip into Fifield, who bleeds acid all over Vickers, killing her.
Pretty much everything from here out plays essentially the same regarding Janek ramming the Alien ship, the ship crashing to LV-426 and rolling after Watts, and settling, except the Magellan can only catch up to it because the chestburster pops through the Engineer piloting the ship before he can leave orbit, causing the ship to momentarily stall out before autopilot takes over.
When Watts wakes up after the ship settles, she still only has a few minutes to get to Vicker's lifeboat, but it's a giant xenomorph (called an Ultramorph) that is now chasing her, instead of the Engineer. She kills it after an extended chase/hide n seek sorta setpiece.
It ends with the other pyramids shooting giant beacons of light out of their tops towards outer space as Watts gets drunk and plays chess with David's head in Vicker's quarters, waiting for either Earth or the Engineers to send a ship after them
Well, shit the bed.|
FWIW, I really enjoyed Prometheus and was prepared to poo-poo the older script, but on the basis of that summary, it sounds really fucking good! Sounds like there was less questionable out-of-character behaviour and it sounds like the final script threw in a few twists for twists-sake. Hell, it had a chest-burster during a sex scene! That sounds horrific, and I like the idea of interference during conception whereas chest-bursting is usually a macabre image of pregnancy. The different forms of xenomorph sound intriguing too, certainly help to convey that the goo/scarabs create a range of beings, not just one type, which is a bit more ambiguous in Prometheus.
HMM. I'm torn after reading that. Lots of what ifs in my head.
Certainly feels like Lindelhof did his whole Lost thing of leaving many threads dangling, which I don't mind necessarily. The dreadful characterisation was my main gripe with Prometheus rather than plot.
God, I can't stop reading about this film.|
Anyway, this is quite a nice summary/discussion of Alien: Engineers:
nickthegun (talking about the black goo) wrote:Mate, if you're not a scriptwriter, then you've missed your calling in life.
Might be old. Good though.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise half of them are stupider than that
Finally got around to watching this last night. I'm going to write this before reading some of your thoughts in this thread (which by the size of it, is going to take me all morning. I do like it when a film can cause such debate...|
Anyway, I liked it. I really liked it and yet it definitely had some glaring issues. Casting and characterisation stood out from the off as having some really naff decisions. Some were great, some wouldn't even get on Emmerdale.
The pacing seemed really off throughout the entire middle hour. Felt like there were some really important bits left on the cutting room floor.
Why cast a young man as an old man? Led me to think the whole way through you'd get to see him young, but... we didn't. Really strange decision.
It looked STUNNING. From the landscape shots to the ships. Loved the way it looked (despite having the issue all these futuristic prequels have of having funkier, sexier tech!). It also sounded fantastic.
Shaw cutting herself open... ok. Shaw running around like a superhero seconds after... not so 'k (regardless of how many drugs she was on).
Yet, despite these quirks I thoroughly enjoyed it and am looking forward to a repeat viewing.
Now I'll go read what you lot think
|Loads of discussion in here. Seems like it split opinion straight down the middle with people that liked it, and those that didn't. A lot of people seem to agree with me that it could have done with an extra half hour of fleshing out some of the scenes.|
|An extra hour with even more shitty writing, bad plotting and mostly bad acting? Thanks but no thanks .....|
|I'm basically with you binky. On balance I like it. It's a bit silly and some stuff doesn't make sense at all, but it's not unwatchably stupid imo and the general look and tension of it makes it enjoyable.|
The most frustrating thing is that its only very minor elements that need changing to really elevate it. So minor you cant imagine why they didnt do it.|
But, yeah, I rewatched it the other week and was pleased by how it held up on a second watch. Yes, it has its wtf moments, but they dont ruin the movie like they do with batman.
He totally called it
So Lindelof out, and he even has a little dig at the end!|
Ridley Scott's sci-fi epic "Prometheus" proved one of the year's most divisive films, and now the film's scribe Damon Lindelof will not be returning for the proposed sequel.
Scott shoulders the blame too, probably even more so by insisting on the changes and signing off on them. Still has an amazing eye for a scene but doesn't make a great film. If they ever manage a sequel you will probably see that Scott remains a major problem with his silly ideas, not Alien but it is, well kinda, but it isn't okay but that thing, yeah. Just let the franchise die. Can't be saved.|
Edited by oceanmotion at 12:52:59 21-12-2012
There is actually only one Alien movie, and it's called Alien. Even Aliens really cheapens the franchise if you watch it now, it hasn't aged well at all.|
Also why won't someone pay me to spend a solid year pissing all over a hollywood script? I honestly don't see how the changes that were made could have taken more than a couple of nights and a bag of weed.
|I'm serious. WHY DID WEYLAND PRETEND TO BE DEAD?|
So everyone who can see through his hack writing is a fanboy? I don't think so. |
The plot was a complete dogs dinner. He wrote it. Not all, but the majority of criticism is justified imo.
WoodenSpoon wrote:To provide an AMAZING twist.
Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day
|I was too baffled by why he's a young actor being made to look old to have realized that.|
WoodenSpoon wrote:He only had days left to live so went into hypersleep until the time he wanted to wake. This meant he would be gone for years. If he wasn't dead there would have been a lot of questions about where he was - given he was a famous person.