Ridley Scott's Prometheus (spoilers within) Page 100

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  • ecu 11 Oct 2012 18:08:20 77,237 posts
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    I watched Aliens again last night, there's plenty of dumb stuff in that too. Got the feeling the Queen using the lift at the end would have been considered comical if it occurred in a modern film, and the USCM do plenty of really stupid things throughout the movie. Ripley surviving at all during these films is more implausible than anything that happens in Prometheus, but it doesn't really matter.
  • Deleted user 11 October 2012 18:13:39
    There is also a bit of a chain reaction of polarising increasingly extreme reactions to these things.

    I thought it was ok.

    Really, I thought it was a bit cack?

    Cack, it was great!

    How can you say it was great, it was fucking awful!!

    Awful, it was one of the best film I've ever seen!!!

    Sorry, but it was literally the worst film of all time!!!!

    You're a fucking idiot, it was better than anything else ever!!!!!

    etc
  • Deckard1 11 Oct 2012 18:23:53 29,220 posts
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    It was shit. Very pretty shit. Like a shit that Natalie Portman had laid, which had then been rolled in glitter. It's still shit at the end of the day, but one that I'd like to keep in a little box in the attic and go and look at sometimes. Yeah that's exactly what it's like.

    Fish fingers and chips pretty straight forward.

  • Deckard1 11 Oct 2012 18:23:55 29,220 posts
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    It was shit. Very pretty shit. Like a shit that Natalie Portman had laid, which had then been rolled in glitter. It's still shit at the end of the day, but one that I'd like to keep in a little box in the attic and go and look at sometimes. Yeah that's exactly what it's like.

    Fish fingers and chips pretty straight forward.

  • mrpon 11 Oct 2012 18:28:56 29,436 posts
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    :D it's on my "shit to watch" list this.

    Give yourself 5 or gig, you're worth it.

  • CharlieStCloud 11 Oct 2012 18:32:09 5,397 posts
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    Wow!

    100 pages: - two thirds of them are made up of 'it is terrible' and 'no it isn't!' kind of bickering.

    ... : )
  • themanfromdelmonte 11 Oct 2012 18:45:03 591 posts
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    BinaryBob101 wrote:
    I dunno. I stand by my comment. If the internet didn't exist at the time of Prometheus' release, there would never have been the outpouring of satirical videos, or the hostility present towards it in forums and message boards across the globe.

    There wouldn't have been such hate-fuelled debates about it down the local pub either.

    I don't give two shits whether the majority love it, or hate it. I think it's a good film with some pretty big problems, but not big enough to justify hatred, or the title of "WORST FILM EVAAAAAA!!!11!!!1!".

    For me, it's a beautiful mess and I'll watch it a few more times I'm sure and enjoy again in the future.
    You're wrong, I'd definitely have handed out VHS tapes of my satirical video. I'd also have been straight on the forums and message boards that didn't exist.

    What you've said there is "If there wasn't the internet. People wouldn't use the internet."

    Genuine counter argument. If it weren't a long awaited Alien prequel (of sorts), people wouldn't be kidding themselves that it's not a shambles.
  • nickthegun 11 Oct 2012 18:52:36 61,118 posts
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    If it wasn't a long await prequel to alien, expectations wouldnt have been as high and it wouldnt have got anywhere near the mauling it got.

    If it was a stand alone movie from a first time director the world would have said in unison 'yeah its kind of cool but also pretty dumb', which is exactly what it deserved.

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  • bad09 11 Oct 2012 18:59:58 6,222 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    If it wasn't a long await prequel to alien, expectations wouldnt have been as high and it wouldnt have got anywhere near the mauling it got.

    If it was a stand alone movie from a first time director the world would have said in unison 'yeah its kind of cool but also pretty dumb', which is exactly what it deserved.
    I dunno, whether some like or not it's still a VERY poorly constructed movie with a terrible script and a weak cast playing uninteresting characters. Even without the alien connection it would still be a bad movie IMO. I do think there is an element of "it's aliens I want to like it" going on, people are desperately trying to figure out the poorly executed script and it's relation to Alien...even Ridley Scott is FFS...Engineer bomber...LOL! :)
  • themanfromdelmonte 11 Oct 2012 19:07:52 591 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    If it wasn't a long await prequel to alien, expectations wouldnt have been as high and it wouldnt have got anywhere near the mauling it got.

    If it was a stand alone movie from a first time director the world would have said in unison 'yeah its kind of cool but also pretty dumb', which is exactly what it deserved.
    If it was that, 99.9% of the world wouldn't have seen it. It would be a cult following curates egg type film. The 1st time director would never be let near a big Hollywood budget again.
  • ecu 11 Oct 2012 19:48:22 77,237 posts
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    themanfromdelmonte wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    If it wasn't a long await prequel to alien, expectations wouldnt have been as high and it wouldnt have got anywhere near the mauling it got.

    If it was a stand alone movie from a first time director the world would have said in unison 'yeah its kind of cool but also pretty dumb', which is exactly what it deserved.
    If it was that, 99.9% of the world wouldn't have seen it. It would be a cult following curates egg type film. The 1st time director would never be let near a big Hollywood budget again.
    Not really, it's extremely well made and has a lot going for it. The story is good, the visual effects are amazing and the performances from the main characters are very good. The alien world is amazingly constructed and feels real, I like it enough just for the experience of seeing the planet and exploring the alien world for the first time, I was really gripped when they were first exploring the ship, I wanted to know what they would find. People are talking about it as if it's a Phantom Menace-style disaster.

    Also it's not dumb, not even close. Battleship and Transformers are dumb, Prometheus is a film with complex and interesting themes and the disappointment comes from these themes never being properly developed.
  • Deleted user 11 October 2012 19:53:21
    Visually it's good but the story is too full of holes and leaps of faith for it to be good - they can't even be explained away by film logic. The performances by Swede girl and the gay robot are both decent but not much more, the rest of the cast are solid with what they have to work with.

    The exploration stuff, minus the character idiocy, was pretty good it's just that it didn't go anywhere interesting.

    It's a solid 5/10 for me but it has suffered from the overhype and poor marketing of it as an Alien film, along with the nonces all trying to dissect the deeper meaning of the film that has only been caused by bad writing.

    Another few months on the script/story and it could've been great.
  • ecu 11 Oct 2012 20:15:23 77,237 posts
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    @Aargh. There are deeper meanings for the film though, if you read a few interviews with Ridley Scott, the writers, and other people involved in the project, you can tell there's a lot of detail there that never made it on to the screen. This isn't something they just put out to make a bunch of cash, like a Transformers film.

    They wanted to maintain some mystery and overdid it to the point where the film wasn't wholly satisfying and at times didn't even make sense. It doesn't really give any clear answers to anything and is too ambiguous. It started to lose me when the zombie guy turned up and she gave birth to a squid, but I thought the first hour was great though. Definitely feels like it could have been really good. In the interview with Jon Spaihts that someone posted a few pages back, he talked about how they planned out the different kinds of xenomorph evolution, but it's never explained in the film.

    Edited by ecureuil at 20:15:43 11-10-2012
  • Bremenacht 11 Oct 2012 21:00:12 19,443 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    I watched Aliens again last night, there's plenty of dumb stuff in that too. Got the feeling the Queen using the lift at the end would have been considered comical if it occurred in a modern film, and the USCM do plenty of really stupid things throughout the movie. Ripley surviving at all during these films is more implausible than anything that happens in Prometheus, but it doesn't really matter.
    Oh come on. Stupid jarhheads doing stupid things is sufficiently plausible. Smart creature copying another smart creature is sufficiently plausible. Someone surviving against the odds - plausible AND typical in film!

    Brilliant scientists whizzing across space in order to discover alien life decide to ignore any scientific principles and get lost, drunk, depressed, pregnant etc - not so plausible, and also a bit confusing.

    Proud-but-cynical captain of an advanced spaceship whizzing across space in order to discover alien life deciding christmas is quite important, getting some accordian practice in, chasing skirt while leaving brilliant scientists lost in bizarre alien structure, discovering the plot and then crashing advanced spaceship into alien ship on a whim - not so plausible, and also a bit confusing.

    etc.

    I totally get that you like it. I like it!

    I don't get how you're trying to say that it's plausible and sensible. It's not. I'm struggling to think of any other film where the main characters have to stop for a bit in order to explain to the audience what's going on.

    Edited by Bremenacht at 21:04:06 11-10-2012
  • ram 11 Oct 2012 21:10:53 3,486 posts
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    Watched it last night, thought it was very good. Enjoyably slow but steady build up and then a pretty good frantic end game with a decent amount of mystery and unanswered questions thrown in.

    Watched it in 3d and it was awesome. I love my 3dtv. Tv 3d is effin loads better than at the cinema. I'm not sure why, maybe it's a more manageable size and not so in your face.
  • ecu 11 Oct 2012 21:53:48 77,237 posts
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    @Bremenacht I never said the stuff that happens is plausible. For the most part it isn't, but the other Alien films also have their implausible moments. You can pick apart Aliens plenty if you want to, there's a lot of dumb stuff in there too. Can't blame the dumb soliders either, cause in that case, why send stupid soldiers on such a mission anyway? The US marine corps of today is far more professional than the USCM in Aliens.

    My point is, that stuff isn't really why the film was a disappointment. It's like when everyone blamed Jar Jar Binks for ruining the Star Wars prequels, misplaced ire I think. I mean, did people really not like Prometheus because the geologist gets lost and Charlize Theron runs in a straight line at the end?

    Alien and Aliens have clear goals and plots. Escape from the monster on your spaceship, and escape from the moon with all the monsters. The audience knows the ultimate goal and seeing Ripley overcome these odds is satisfying. With Prometheus, the characters don't really know what the goal is, so neither do the audience. They go to the planet and don't know what they'll find, when they find it they don't know what to do with it, then they have a plot twist with the old guy and we don't know him so we don't really care, then they quickly introduce a threat to earth, and all this is interspersed with a squid, a zombie, a penis snake, an even larger squid, and none of it is ever explained in the slightest. Logic takes you a certain way to understanding some of these but it's overly complicated for sure. I understand basically what's going on in the film and I do think it's decent enough.
  • disusedgenius 11 Oct 2012 21:56:24 5,534 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    Brilliant scientists whizzing across space in order to discover alien life decide to ignore any scientific principles and get lost, drunk, depressed, pregnant etc - not so plausible, and also a bit confusing.
    I dunno, sounds like typical scientist behaviour to me!
  • RobAnybody 11 Oct 2012 22:36:45 943 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:

    Another few months on the script/story and it could've been great.
    I'm not so sure. Two main problems:

    a) Spaihts' original script underwent a hasty re-write due to high up execs at Fox deciding that they wanted a script less obviously linked to 'Alien'

    b) That re-write was done by none other than cack-handed 'writer' Damon Lindelof


    And of course we have Scott himself - the guy is excellent with the visuals, but he wouldn't recognise a decent script if it was rolled up by an android and forced down his throat. He sometimes gets lucky with a decent script (Alien, Blade Runner, Kingdom of Heaven (Director's Cut) but these have been lucky hits; most of the scripts for his films are definite misses.

    Edited by RobAnybody at 22:37:15 11-10-2012
  • themanfromdelmonte 11 Oct 2012 22:50:22 591 posts
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    @ecureuil

    Actually, I think your comments have inspired me to solidify my criticism into a single statement. Prometeus, is what the Americans would call a douchebag. Strumming its guitar and flicking its ponytail and hope dull and confused comes across as enigmatic.
  • disusedgenius 11 Oct 2012 22:53:49 5,534 posts
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    See what you've done ecu?
  • ronuds 11 Oct 2012 22:55:55 21,788 posts
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    @ecureuil I haven't seen it yet, but that description seriously makes it sound terrible.

    I'm looking forward to that penis snake, though.
  • Khanivor 11 Oct 2012 23:14:08 41,133 posts
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    The kids in AvP 2 behaved more intelligently than the scientists in Prometheus, with the hugely important distinction of behaving as one would expect of teenagers.

    At the end of the day, no matter how glossy a turd is it's still a turd.
  • oldschoolsoviet 12 Oct 2012 18:34:03 5,532 posts
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    Just finished it.

    What a fucking car crash.

    The fact that the deleted/original scenes are more cohesive than the finished product speaks volumes.
    Director's Cut ? It'll take more than that to salvage this I'm afraid.
  • captainrentboy 12 Oct 2012 21:10:51 1,062 posts
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    Gave it a rewatch on Blu Ray last night (Fantastic picture!) and still thoroughly enjoyed it, probably moreso than the first time in Imax. (3D glasses wind me up)
    I find it quite surprising how unbelievably despised the film is by so many. Yeah there are gigantic gaps in logic throughout, and it raised far more questions than it answered, but people seriously claiming it as the "Worst.Film.Evaahh!", rather than simply disliking it, seems a bit OTT to me.
    I'm all up for a sequel, Scott needs to get on it ASAP.
  • The-Bodybuilder 14 Oct 2012 15:56:57 14,401 posts
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    Watched it with no "Alien prequel OMG" pre-hype that many seem to have.
    Loved it. Great sci-fi film.

    Little issues here and there (stupid annoying scientists, though the 2 guys that got killed initially made the sensible non-typical sci-fi action of actually deciding to LEAVE the place. Shame they got lost), but loved it.

    Biggest issue? It really shouldn't have anything to do with Aliens. Trying to force it into the universe is the source of most of it's issues, including unnecessarily turning into a monster movie in the end when it didn't need to be).

    My 2 cents.

    Edited by The-Bodybuilder at 15:58:42 14-10-2012
  • ecu 15 Oct 2012 18:51:13 77,237 posts
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avXZVgzLP68
  • Maturin 15 Oct 2012 19:09:08 3,160 posts
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    Got the BR of the movie this week having seen and enjoyed it at the cinema.

    One thing that struck me this time around - and in some ways mitigates the "stupid scientists" critique - is that this is hardly the best science has to offer. It is a poor crew likely to make bad decisions, but that's no surprise and not a negative aspect of the film but actually integral to the plot and this genre.

    Two crackpots with Eric Von Danikan ideas that no-one else believes have managed to get a hugely expensive mission funded just because an old man is scared of dying. In the movie there's no sense we're being told this is a group of geniuses, Shaw's theory is outlandish and the rest of the team seem to be brought along to make up numbers, Weyland making some nod at legitimising the expedition.

    Okay, Shaw actually turns out to be right. But this was never a properly organised mission. We see what Weyland really had in mind, and it's no wonder corners were cut choosing the science team. The money was spent on a big shiny ship to get there and a fairly ordinary crew to help.

    The result was a team out of its depth when faced with the reality of the situation. An almost identical situation to that of the Sulaco expedition in Aliens - where the barmy ideas of one women is funded to the tune of one bloody great spaceship, crewed by a pretty piss poor marine platoon led by an idiot and a corporate buffoon Neither Gorman or Burke having a clue what to do once the realities of the situation sunk in.

    It's a very standard - but usually entertaining - plot device seen in many movies. Throw some arrogant no it all(s) into a situation for which they feel superbly qualified and then make the situation much worse and throw them in the mixer. You even see it in Jaws with Quint.

    Anyway, I still really enjoyed the film second time around. Though a few of those character moments in the deleted scenes could have been in the movie - especially the one with Vickers and Janek. And I always love the visuals in a Ridley Scott film. I think he's the best visual director still working today - very much in the mould of Lean (who of course he nods to with David watching Lawrence of Arabia).

    Edited by Maturin at 19:12:06 15-10-2012
  • Ror1984 15 Oct 2012 19:17:33 4,123 posts
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    @Maturin "Two crackpots with Eric Von Danikan ideas that no-one else believes have managed to get a hugely expensive mission funded just because an old man is scared of dying. In the movie there's no sense we're being told this is a group of geniuses, Shaw's theory is outlandish and the rest of the team seem to be brought along to make up numbers, Weyland making some nod at legitimising the expedition."

    Also, bear in mind that none of the rest of the team knew what they'd signed on for. They're basically contractors - hence Fifield's "I'm here to make money" line, so it's hardly surprising they lose their nerve once they see an actual dead alien.

    Although, Fifield and Millburn getting lost seems a bit silly, since surely they'd have had a map on their HUD - that strip across the front top of their helmets is supposed to be an array of small screens - surely one would be used for orientation.

    I've seen it three times now - twice at the cinema (2D and 3D) and once at home on 3D Bluray and each time I've enjoyed it a bit more. I like it.

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