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Ridley Scott's Prometheus (spoilers within) • Page 98

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  • bad09 9 Oct 2012 15:57:21 4,570 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    I didn't mean the alien at the end was the very first xenomorph. The black liquid creates the alien/rapid evolution, I think it's a fair assumption that the engineers had tested it on themselves and knew what it was, which is probably why they'd stashed the stuff away on a moon, far away from their home planet. From the mural on the wall I think we can rule it out of being an experiment gone wrong since they've deified the alien, so they're probably quite proud of their creation. Until it fucked them up, I guess. The captain of the ship says the black stuff/containers was a bioweapon that got out of control. Not sure how he'd know this, but I think we're supposed to take that line as being true.
    Hmmmm, I don't remember any evidence of the goo or the engineers actually creating the xenomorph (other then squid thing/engineer alien of course). In fact the sloppy script is so bad it has very little evidence of anything and everyone seems to be just guessing at what the film is actually about and what's gone on from what I can see. The more I process and think about the film it's almost like the studio intentionally wanted a mess of a film with bugger all in it so we'd all need a sequel to actually find out what on earth it's all about. Clever I guess but annoying as hell.

    The mural gives us nothing other than it's a picture of an alien queen we see once....although you may well be onto something there. I've been reading around the web trying to make sense of the awful script and apparently in an art book for the film it is actually described as part of a "shrine" so it does seem that the Xenomorph are of some importance and relevance to the engineers. As to what that is I guess we need a sequel to actually find out.
  • Steve_Perry 9 Oct 2012 16:01:44 595 posts
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    I don't believe the frustrating ambiguity of the plot was done on purpose. It was just shit writing.
  • AcidSnake 9 Oct 2012 16:03:16 6,657 posts
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    Remembering a certain link a lot of pages back where someone said the engineers hated us because we were too selfish and unwilling to sacrifice ourselves to create life would directly contrast with a shrine made for the Xenos...

    Maybe that link was all wrong and the engineers hate us because we share too much?

    "What's all this sharing and altruism crap?! We didn't teach you that!"

    They're just a bunch of space-Republicans...

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  • BinaryBob101 9 Oct 2012 16:03:25 21,071 posts
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    bad09 wrote:
    BinaryBob101 wrote:
    Why does he keep calling it "The Bone Ship"?
    That's what everyone has called it for years :)
    I don't think they have though. :)

    Isn't it referenced as The Derelict?

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  • bad09 9 Oct 2012 16:11:06 4,570 posts
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    BinaryBob101 wrote:
    bad09 wrote:
    BinaryBob101 wrote:
    Why does he keep calling it "The Bone Ship"?
    That's what everyone has called it for years :)
    I don't think they have though. :)

    Isn't it referenced as The Derelict?
    Well it is a "derelict" spacecraft so I imagine it is referred as that to.

    Honestly, it's been referred to as the bone ship for a long time. I'm not sure if that was the "official" term for it to be fair but you always hear fans call it the bone ship. It's hard to say when I first heard the term myself but it goes back as far as the old alien trilogy game on PS1 at least.
  • bad09 9 Oct 2012 16:13:03 4,570 posts
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    AcidSnake wrote:
    Remembering a certain link a lot of pages back where someone said the engineers hated us because we were too selfish and unwilling to sacrifice ourselves to create life would directly contrast with a shrine made for the Xenos...

    Maybe that link was all wrong and the engineers hate us because we share too much?

    "What's all this sharing and altruism crap?! We didn't teach you that!"

    They're just a bunch of space-Republicans...
    Yeah I've seen that one, there is all kind of theories one I laugh at is that they hate us because they created a "space Jesus" for us who we then crucified (yes J.C. was a space jockey! :) )
  • BinaryBob101 9 Oct 2012 16:13:52 21,071 posts
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    @Steve_Perry There was plenty of ambiguity that was written on purpose.

    There are also a lot of mongy mongs in this thread.

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  • BinaryBob101 9 Oct 2012 16:15:32 21,071 posts
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    @bad09 I honestly can't find any reference for the Bone Ship anywhere. I say anywhere, it's not on page 1 of google.

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  • bad09 9 Oct 2012 16:21:14 4,570 posts
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    I dunno what to tell you Bob I found one reference on page one and known it as that, and referred to it as such to other fans (who knew what I was talking about straight away), game makers have also called it that. Don't know what to tell you.

    / shrugs

    Edited by bad09 at 16:24:21 09-10-2012
  • Steve_Perry 9 Oct 2012 16:22:25 595 posts
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    BinaryBob101 wrote:
    @Steve_Perry There was plenty of ambiguity that was written on purpose.
    Which parts are purposefully ambiguous?
  • ecureuil 9 Oct 2012 16:23:23 74,066 posts
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    My understanding was in the opening scene, you see an "engineer" seeding life on a planet. It's not necessarily earth (this has been confirmed by Ridley Scott in an interview), but the implication is that they did seed life on earth, as well as on other planets.

    The black goo is responsible for rapid evolution. You see the team walk past worms in the dirt on the ship, and a deleted scene shows a much larger worm being put in to a container for analysis. Then a little later, you see a much larger worm come from the black goo, which kills the two guys. Those scenes establish that this lifeform can rapidly evolve and adapt to its environment.

    The film also establishes that human DNA and engineer DNA is the same. So we can make the link that if engineers know that this stuff creates a xenomorph when incubated inside an engineer, then the same thing will also happen with a human.

    The spaceship belongs to the engineers and David discovers it was heading for earth, full of these containers.

    Engineers see humans as a failed creation and see xenomorphs as superior, they were taking the black goo to earth to terminate the (human) race they had created and replace it with the ultimate lifeform. When the engineer is woken up from deep sleep, the first thing he sees is humans fighting/pointing guns at each other, and the only being there that can communicate with him is a robot designed in their own image. The robot is an abomination to the engineer.

    Another interpretation could be that they saw the development of the human race and wanted to wipe them out before they became a threat. If humans created a race of highly advanced robots which were capable of self-improvement and reproduction, might we reach a point where their existence might threaten our own? How would we handle that?
  • silentbob 9 Oct 2012 16:24:07 28,763 posts
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    BinaryBob101 wrote:
    @Steve_Perry There was plenty of ambiguity that was written on purpose.

    There are also a lot of mongy mongs in this thread.
    Even if that is the case, the sheer amount of non-ambiguous shite in evidence does somewhat undo the mystique.

    Edited by silentbob at 16:24:34 09-10-2012

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  • oceanmotion 9 Oct 2012 16:31:56 13,111 posts
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    Sure the guy who wrote Lost just loves tangling questions with no answers just because, what if man, wouldn't that be cool forgetting there should be a solid outcome involving all those questions. I don't think there is any need to explain what was going on, they don't know either.
  • BinaryBob101 9 Oct 2012 16:38:22 21,071 posts
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    See, a bit like Kal, they really didn't bother me so much. There was nothing about this film that I hated and I think most of this mass outpouring of vitriol is internet hysteria based.

    I said it pages and pages ago, but Prometheus could never, ever live up to the hype.

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  • bad09 9 Oct 2012 16:38:31 4,570 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    My understanding was in the opening scene, you see an "engineer" seeding life on a planet. It's not necessarily earth (this has been confirmed by Ridley Scott in an interview), but the implication is that they did seed life on earth, as well as on other planets.

    The black goo is responsible for rapid evolution. You see the team walk past worms in the dirt on the ship, and a deleted scene shows a much larger worm being put in to a container for analysis. Then a little later, you see a much larger worm come from the black goo, which kills the two guys. Those scenes establish that this lifeform can rapidly evolve and adapt to its environment.

    The film also establishes that human DNA and engineer DNA is the same. So we can make the link that if engineers know that this stuff creates a xenomorph when incubated inside an engineer, then the same thing will also happen with a human.

    The spaceship belongs to the engineers and David discovers it was heading for earth, full of these containers.

    Engineers see humans as a failed creation and see xenomorphs as superior, they were taking the black goo to earth to terminate the (human) race they had created and replace it with the ultimate lifeform. When the engineer is woken up from deep sleep, the first thing he sees is humans fighting/pointing guns at each other, and the only being there that can communicate with him is a robot designed in their own image. The robot is an abomination to the engineer.

    Another interpretation could be that they saw the development of the human race and wanted to wipe them out before they became a threat. If humans created a race of highly advanced robots which were capable of self-improvement and reproduction, might we reach a point where their existence might threaten our own? How would we handle that?
    I think that is probably the best interpretation. Although Scott seems to be messing with alien to get this thing to fit the more I read, apparently in an interview he claimed the "derelict" (better Bob? ;) ) from Alien is now actually an engineer bomber and the eggs were it's bombs (although I don't think he claims it's on it's way to Earth there). So it does seem the idea behind it is that the xenomorph are now some kind of biological weapon of the engineers....which I think I was better off not knowing :)

    Edited by bad09 at 16:39:16 09-10-2012
  • Fake_Blood 9 Oct 2012 16:39:29 2,959 posts
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    I think we're putting more thought into this scenario than the writers ever did.
  • disusedgenius 9 Oct 2012 16:40:58 4,810 posts
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    oceanmotion wrote:
    I don't think there is any need to explain what was going on, they don't know either.
    I think there's a mix, which is why it's such an issue. Some things which are considered and help (like the inhumanity of the engineers or robot boy), others which are just lazy and don't(like everyone else's motives). If you're going to make something appear illogical to make a point, everything else really has to be air tight.
  • AcidSnake 9 Oct 2012 16:44:53 6,657 posts
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    @ecu:
    Did David establish they were headed for Earth? I just thought he saw the hologram but didn't mention it as a destination? (Can't remember to be honest)...
    I just thought it confirmed they created life on Earth...

    Also the room was filled with holograms of planets...Maybe they wanted a grudge match with the whole galaxy?

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  • BinaryBob101 9 Oct 2012 16:47:48 21,071 posts
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    Yeah, David did indeed confirm they were on a jaunt to Earth.

    Happy to help bad09! ;)

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  • bad09 9 Oct 2012 16:48:23 4,570 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    I think we're putting more thought into this scenario than the writers ever did.
    I would say writer. From the sounds of it things started unravelling when this Lost bloke was brought to distance Prometheus from any reference to Alien.
  • Goodfella 9 Oct 2012 16:53:20 1,949 posts
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    So the plan was to 'bombard' Earth with lots of face huggers who in turn spawn aliens in humans to wipe out the human race?

    Edited by Goodfella at 16:54:21 09-10-2012
  • Bremenacht 9 Oct 2012 16:57:45 11,116 posts
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    bad09 wrote:
    Fake_Blood wrote:
    I think we're putting more thought into this scenario than the writers ever did.
    I would say writer. From the sounds of it things started unravelling when this Lost bloke was brought to distance Prometheus from any reference to Alien.
    There you go. That's all there is to the plot, but hey-ho - another few dozen pages of what stuff might have meant please. :)

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  • bad09 9 Oct 2012 16:58:07 4,570 posts
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    @Goodfella

    Well Scott doesn't say it's on the way to earth, it could be off somewhere else (the alien ship is 200 years older than the ones in Prometheus apparently), but with the ship from Prometheus heading to earth it does seem that, or as ecureuil says replacing us with them, seems to be the general gist of it.

    Edited by bad09 at 16:59:03 09-10-2012
  • Bremenacht 9 Oct 2012 17:00:21 11,116 posts
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    Err. Says the guy who posted what it might have meant on the last page.

    :redface:

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  • ecureuil 9 Oct 2012 17:02:22 74,066 posts
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    bad09 wrote:
    Fake_Blood wrote:
    I think we're putting more thought into this scenario than the writers ever did.
    I would say writer. From the sounds of it things started unravelling when this Lost bloke was brought to distance Prometheus from any reference to Alien.
    I don't know about that. Lindelof is a good writer and Lost was a very good TV show, but he wasn't the only writer. He did get the main writing credit on the best episode on the entire run. Personally I wouldn't blame him for all the problems of this script, and I'm not sure exactly what each writer contributed (though reading that article on the previous page helped). Seems a bit of a cop out for people disappointed in the movie to point the finger at the guy who wrote Lost.

    Edited by ecureuil at 17:03:31 09-10-2012
  • Bremenacht 9 Oct 2012 17:04:06 11,116 posts
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    Ok.

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  • Dirtbox 9 Oct 2012 17:59:15 73,639 posts
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    My thinking is that it's a disjointed mess with no direction and no point other than to milk it for a slew of similarly unenlightening sequels. Anyone trying to make sense of that thin tapestry of shite is going to keep throwing their money at it.

    Quite good marketing really.

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  • bnazir 9 Oct 2012 19:01:47 77 posts
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    It could be that the sequel to Prometheus is going to flesh out the two sides of the engineers, i.e those that are pro human/life versus those that are xenophobic. I think we may have seen the good engineers in the beginning of the movie, creating life. We also see them trying to guide mankind to a meeting location once we had come of age. One guy postulates that Jesus Christ is an Engineer himself!

    However, due to our violent history, the xenophobic engineers had enough and effectively mounted an attack on the good engineers at the moon base with the aim of wiping mankind out using a modified version of the black goo as a weapon. It just turned out that the xenophobic engineers created a far too perfect weapon that ended up destroying them before they could take control of the base and launch an attack.

    I like so many others have no idea what Scott was thinking about here. We have so many random bits of information but no concrete plot to tie any of it together. This may have worked with Lost and the weekly program roster (to a point), but it totally sucks as a format for a movie. I suspect, by the time the sequel comes out, nobody will care.
  • Steve_Perry 9 Oct 2012 19:07:13 595 posts
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    James Cameron should do the sequel. A group of space marines pick up dragon tattoo bird and Magneto head, then proceed to wage unholy war on the engineer homeworld. IN FREE DEE.
  • Bremenacht 9 Oct 2012 19:17:53 11,116 posts
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    What did everyone think of the cushion-covers in Charlize Theron's bit of the ship? Weyland-Yutani or Yutani-Hitachi? They've left that bit a bit open, but it's clear that the black goo was created in our future and transported to the past, so I reckon Prometheus Episode 2: Attack of the Bones will probably have the USMC cushion covers from Aliens, but not exactly the same, so as to ensure canon is maintained. A different weave for a different Alien universe.

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