Ridley Scott's Prometheus (spoilers within) Page 94

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  • HisDudness 2 Aug 2012 16:58:08 982 posts
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    BinaryBob101 wrote:
    That's pretty recent.
    Yeah not terrible, but I was just trying to convey the sentiment that beggars can't be choosers. If you are happy seeing a competent hard sci-fi flick every few years then that's fine. Personally, I'd rather be inundated with choice - instead of all these fucking comic book movies.

    Inception is another good example. Hopefully, now that Batman is done Nolan will make some more original science fiction stories.
  • nickthegun 2 Aug 2012 16:59:04 59,940 posts
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    Sci-Fi is having a bit of a renaissance at the cinema. Its TV where we are absolutely starved of it.

    Theres clearly an apetite for it as every other big movie has at least some some sci-fi element, but no bugger wants to sit down and watch it for an hour a week.

    But then its a vicious cycle. As audiences shrink, channels become more cautious and produced homogenised, issue led shit like terra nova and falling skies, which no one wants to see, so audiences shrink, so channels are even more cautious..

    OH NO! IM A BAD FATHER!

    I dont care. Show me a space ship.

    But this is a whole other issue..

    Edited by nickthegun at 16:59:48 02-08-2012

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    someone say something funny

  • Kilters 2 Aug 2012 16:59:21 574 posts
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    @kalel I'd add Children of Men in there too.
  • HisDudness 2 Aug 2012 17:04:32 982 posts
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    Kilters wrote:
    @kalel I'd add Children of Men in there too.
    and Sunshine! *runs away*
  • Rodney 3 Aug 2012 00:12:49 1,900 posts
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    Phattso wrote:
    I just want it to be an awesome sci-fi flick, so I can get an awesome sci-fi hardon and crank one out in the cinema. Seems like fucking ages since I saw a sci-fi film that pushed all the right buttons.
    This was my reaction to the film. I thought it was great but I had lowere my expectations going in
  • Phattso Moderator 3 Aug 2012 06:43:33 13,336 posts
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    Star Trek, Inception and District 9 were probably the three most recent ones that gave me the scifi reacharound and stayed for a cuddle afterwards - I've re-watched them all more times than I'd care to admit.

    With expectations firmly set to "meh" hopefully Prometheus can do the same.
  • LeoliansBro 3 Aug 2012 07:36:25 44,246 posts
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    With those three as torchbearers, Prometheus will suit you just fine.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Phattso Moderator 3 Aug 2012 09:19:52 13,336 posts
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    I think I've just been cussed somehow.;)

    I'm a whore for a well shot movie and most of the time I don't expend much effort picking apart the plot later, so yeah by those characteristics I suspect you're right. Just need to find somewhere here showing it in English (or at least without ten foot subtitles).
  • Phattso Moderator 4 Sep 2012 16:38:31 13,336 posts
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    Saw it tonight. Enjoyed it. Not sure what I saw that was worth two plus hours in story terms, but I did enjoy it. Was more entertaining as an android piece than as part of the Alien mythos, strangely.
  • silentbob 4 Sep 2012 21:06:35 28,975 posts
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    That certainly is true. Which is why it should have been 90 minutes shorter.

    Edited by silentbob at 21:08:09 04-09-2012

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  • Phattso Moderator 5 Sep 2012 02:41:25 13,336 posts
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    I actually thought if the whole thing had been closer to three hours than two, it would be possible to avoid the horrific short-cut splurge that marred the end of the film.

    People doing or having done terrible things, which are then dismissed with (at most) a single line of dialogue. I'd have to say that if a 12 hour period of my life encompassed proving we weren't alone in the universe, discovering the origin of humankind, finding a crashed spaceship, seeing my loved one infected with _something_ and then incinerated by some cold bitch, then discover I'm impregnated with _something_, and then get that something out of me by some fairly harsh means... well, I'm gonna react differently to the hollow characters on screen.

    Also didn't like the captain being used as a vehicle to just jedi hand-wave away so much. "It's a military installation. Don't shit on your own doorstep. WMD." There was nowhere near enough info on show to make that statement - especially not from a guy who spent most of the film to that point drinking, playing the accordion and fucking Charlize Theron.

    But I still enjoyed it. While Alien is still the superior film, it also did a lot of the things badly that Prometheus does. A lot of the characters were also hollowed out shells - they just had better banter and, as there were slightly fewer of them, more screen time to develop. And even then I only actually "cared" about a few of them. Admittedly that was more than I cared about in Prometheus.

    What I do like though, hence my original statement, is that it turns Prometheus, Alien and Aliens into an interesting study on Androids. The evolution from David, who didn't blink before condemning people to death, to Ash who did so as a result of programming, to Bishop who couldn't (at least in the context of Aliens) allow anyone to be harmed.

    Shame Alien 3 skipped that entirely, and Resurrection dropped the ball a little with its robo-anarchist.

    Anyway - wordblurge. Looking forward to the director's cut - if it makes the crew even just 10% less retarded and more understandable it'll help the film for me.
  • damagedinc 5 Sep 2012 09:07:28 768 posts
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    There appears to be a significant ammount of time added to the final 3rd looking at the directors cut scene listings. Appears the conversatiom between sj and david was longer as well.

    The most obvious cut for me was between alien removal and weyland discovery. Its a shame because this really could have been a classic it may turn out to be with the directors cut.

    Just feel with a bit more tlc on some seemingly obvious points and it could have been.
  • damagedinc 5 Sep 2012 09:07:28 768 posts
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    There appears to be a significant ammount of time added to the final 3rd looking at the directors cut scene listings. Appears the conversatiom between sj and david was longer as well.

    The most obvious cut for me was between alien removal and weyland discovery. Its a shame because this really could have been a classic it may turn out to be with the directors cut.

    Just feel with a bit more tlc on some seemingly obvious points and it could have been.
  • damagedinc 5 Sep 2012 09:07:28 768 posts
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    There appears to be a significant ammount of time added to the final 3rd looking at the directors cut scene listings. Appears the conversatiom between sj and david was longer as well.

    The most obvious cut for me was between alien removal and weyland discovery. Its a shame because this really could have been a classic it may turn out to be with the directors cut.

    Just feel with a bit more tlc on some seemingly obvious points and it could have been.
  • D_arkTrooper 5 Sep 2012 11:55:08 1,318 posts
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    There appears to be an echo in here ;-)

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  • neilka 5 Sep 2012 12:05:35 15,956 posts
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    There is no director's cut, just deleted scenes.

    A map is like comparing velocity and speed.

  • ecureuil 2 Oct 2012 11:43:12 76,814 posts
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    Saw this last night, wasn't as bad as I was expecting but why did people constantly do really stupid things? Plus it was overly complicated for some reason, and since it was partly written by Damon Lindelof, there are a billion unanswered questions. I assume we don't need spoiler tags now it's been out for a while.

    The engineers seed life on other planets by drinking black liquid which makes them disintegrate. So why is the black liquid then shown to kill people? Did they create the liquid for the sole purpose of seeding life, but then the liquid evolved and destroyed them? Where did the little alien snake thing that was swimming in the liquid on the ship come from? Why did it turn one of the guys in to a zombie? Why did Ellie have a squid baby after sleeping with the infected guy? I mean, why a squid baby and not a normal alien like the one that burst from the engineers chest in the final scene? Why did the squid turn in to an enormous face hugger?

    Then there are character and story problems, such as - why didn't anybody know what the mission was until they'd already traveled for two years. Did all these guys really agree to this incredible mission without knowing every last detail of the plan? You would have thought that this would be a professional operation, that involved many years of planning back on earth.

    Nobody acts like a professional, the biologist and geologist have no interest in anything, they act like kids that have been dragged to the dentist by their parents. Why did they even come on the trip in the first place if they were just going to get scared and run away when they found exactly what they were looking for? What did they expect? The biologist makes no attempt to analyse any of the alien material they find, they find a body and he doesn't seem to care. The geologist doesn't notice that the ship isn't a cave anymore. So they get scared and try to leave but get lost on the ship. Then they hang out by a massive pile of corpses, when just five minutes ago, one corpse was enough to make them run. THEN they find a creepy looking alien, and the biologist tries to touch it, when previously he was terrified and cautious. I'm not a biologist but surely there's some sort of procedure when dealing with an entirely new species? 2000 year old corpse - fuck this, I'm leaving. Horrifying alien snake monster - sure, I'll pet it.

    That's not even the half of it. I really wanted to love this film, too. Even after all this, it's still probably the third best film in the franchise.
  • Scurrminator 2 Oct 2012 11:49:59 8,412 posts
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    Grabbed the deleted scenes. The alternate opening (a whole THIRTY SECONDS!) adds nothing and neither does the extended ending.
    There are some nice new scenes (the proper fight with the engineer was much better as was him talking) but none of it makes the film better. Just a more bloated mess than it was before.

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • robthehermit 2 Oct 2012 11:54:04 4,075 posts
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    Lots of questions. I'm not going to answer any of them.

    I will say that I really enjoyed the film though. Was certainly better than Aaah! Zombies! which I watched after it.

    GT: robthehermit

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  • ecureuil 2 Oct 2012 11:58:01 76,814 posts
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    Scurrminator wrote:
    Grabbed the deleted scenes. The alternate opening (a whole THIRTY SECONDS!) adds nothing and neither does the extended ending.
    There are some nice new scenes (the proper fight with the engineer was much better as was him talking) but none of it makes the film better. Just a more bloated mess than it was before.
    Yea I saw the deleted scenes this morning. None of them do anything to improve the film imo.

    Oh, one other thing. Why the hell didn't they just cast an old man instead of putting someone in makeup? It was really distracting and he looked ridiculous.
  • oceanmotion 2 Oct 2012 12:19:46 15,951 posts
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    Your right, that isn't the half of it.

    The guy in charge of mapping the place gets lost just to add another one.

    Yeah, old make up hasn't stopped looking any less ridiculous than Back to the Future 2.

    I think the only redeeming part of the film is the story hidden under a pile of complete garbage.

    Was there nobody involved in that film who thought, you know, this script is rubbish. Who on earth allowed that Scottish person to be cast.

    The only thing I imagine happened was, they were heavily invested in production with a film that was basically Alien and it was too late to stop so they hired a hack to change some things so it didn't resemble Alien too much and a rubbish film that was all over the place and made no sense was the result.
  • ecureuil 2 Oct 2012 12:50:52 76,814 posts
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    I don't think it's that bad. There's some good stuff going on with David and the way he responds to the people who created him, and how they respond to him. Humans see the android as not being a real person, as a tool, as someone who is disposable. It goes some way to understanding the motivations of the engineer, who sees his/their creation - humans - in the same light. This is all good stuff and I think the film did a good job with it, and Fassbender was great as David.

    But then there's so much of the movie that's frustrating in its lack of logic and the way certain characters behave. It could have been great.

    Edited by ecureuil at 12:51:15 02-10-2012
  • Wacko_AK 2 Oct 2012 13:28:33 185 posts
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    Humans see the android as not being a real person, as a tool, as someone who is disposable
    I found this part of the film baffling, if it were me I'd be UTTERLY fascinated by a sentient android. From a purely cost point of view I doubt it would be viewed as "disposable".
  • LeoliansBro 2 Oct 2012 13:44:24 44,246 posts
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    'Disposable' next to a live member of the crew.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Fake_Blood 2 Oct 2012 13:47:59 4,213 posts
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    Saw it a second time.
    I keep wondering if the stuff the engineer drinks in the opening scene is the same substance than that in the shells they find later.
    In the opening scene it has a golden tint and seems to be eating trough metal.
  • Steve_Perry 2 Oct 2012 13:50:39 4,264 posts
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    I found Fassbenders performance was very good but I really wasn't interested in the deeper themes regarding a.i. It's been done far better in other movies, even by Scott himself.

    David randomly infecting one of the crew is one of the stupidest things in the movie too.

    VIVA STEFANSEN

  • PenguinJim 3 Oct 2012 03:38:09 5,865 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    The engineers seed life on other planets by drinking black liquid which makes them disintegrate. So why is the black liquid then shown to kill people? Did they create the liquid for the sole purpose of seeding life, but then the liquid evolved and destroyed them? Where did the little alien snake thing that was swimming in the liquid on the ship come from? Why did it turn one of the guys in to a zombie? Why did Ellie have a squid baby after sleeping with the infected guy? I mean, why a squid baby and not a normal alien like the one that burst from the engineers chest in the final scene? Why did the squid turn in to an enormous face hugger?
    I think I can help here. You say "the" black liquid. Do they need to be the same black liquid? Couldn't "black liquid" be... I dunno... something sci-fiey like super-cell-water or nanobot-water, with different black liquids doing different jobs?

    Didn't they accidentally activate the weaponised black liquid when they entered the room, and one strain developed into snake things? A different strain zombified Thingy-bloke-man (it might have made him look more xenomorphy given time?) and developed Thingy-wotsit-woman's ovum into another weapon-creature.

    A normal alien did not burst from the engineer's chest in the final scene - to me, it looked different. Unless they've had a remodel, like Cybermen in Doctor New?

    It seems to me to be an extremely prolific biological weapon that develops extremely lethal life-forms extremely quickly, but not always in exactly the same manner (maybe different strains, maybe it's supposed to mutate randomly or it's started mutating randomly). If it's responsible for the creation of the xenomorphs in Alien etc, then you might expect to see similarities (for example, a giant face-hugger-like creature).

    That's just what I guessed while watching the movie. The only sci-fi question I had at the end was where was that guy (who turned out to be an Engineer) in the opening scene? If Earth, when?

    ecureuil wrote:
    Oh, one other thing. Why the hell didn't they just cast an old man instead of putting someone in makeup? It was really distracting and he looked ridiculous.
    Ridley Scott apparently intended to have quite a few scenes with Younger Weyland, but in the end Guy Thingy was only featured in a teaser trailer without make-up.

    Extremely annoying (probably for Ridley, too). Considering Peter O'Toole was "in" the movie, he should definitely have been in the movie. ;)

    ecureuil wrote:Then there are character and story problems, such as - why didn't anybody know what the mission was until they'd already traveled for two years. Did all these guys really agree to this incredible mission without knowing every last detail of the plan? You would have thought that this would be a professional operation, that involved many years of planning back on earth.

    Nobody acts like a professional, the biologist and geologist have no interest in anything, they act like kids that have been dragged to the dentist by their parents. Why did they even come on the trip in the first place if they were just going to get scared and run away when they found exactly what they were looking for? What did they expect? The biologist makes no attempt to analyse any of the alien material they find, they find a body and he doesn't seem to care. The geologist doesn't notice that the ship isn't a cave anymore. So they get scared and try to leave but get lost on the ship. Then they hang out by a massive pile of corpses, when just five minutes ago, one corpse was enough to make them run. THEN they find a creepy looking alien, and the biologist tries to touch it, when previously he was terrified and cautious. I'm not a biologist but surely there's some sort of procedure when dealing with an entirely new species? 2000 year old corpse - fuck this, I'm leaving. Horrifying alien snake monster - sure, I'll pet it.
    With this, I cannot help. Or perhaps... in the future, everyone is so dependent on Google that when you take people away from the Internet, they turn into fucking morons? :p

    The biologist/geologist duo was the worst thing about the entire movie, IMO. If only Burke had been around to tamper with their cryotubes at the beginning. :(

    But I quite liked the movie as a whole. :) First half was too slow, second half was too rushed, the characters were generally weak and rubbish, but it was watchable and entertaining (I like sci-fi movies that do a bit of alien exploring :p). 7/10.
  • AcidSnake 3 Oct 2012 08:52:27 7,276 posts
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    About the liquid, a few dozen pages back there was a link to some blog with a very deep explanation for the whole thing...It was mostly seeing things that weren't really there but had some observations that were interesting...

    One of them being that the black liquid is all the same but reacts differently to the mindset the person ingesting it has...
    So in case of SJ: I want to populate the world with life, tadaa...
    In case of boyfriend scientist, I want to impregnate her...
    In case of geologist, damn, fuck this shit!

    Another nice observation I hadn't thought of was that David could've just said "fuck you" to the SJ in its language to make it freak out so he could be free...

    Doesn't excuse the film being such a shambles though...

    Another question I forgot to ask previously is when Shaw escapes when they try to bring her to the freezer...She (having just been sedated and with a monster about to rip her in half from the inside) calmly knocks down two other people and runs off...
    These two people then simply do nothing hoping the problem will solve itself? They don't shout or raise an alarm or follow her or anything...She didn't knock them out cold did she?

    AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017

  • fergal_oc 3 Oct 2012 09:58:38 2,763 posts
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    Wasn't sure about this in the cinema but looking forward to watching it again, looks like there are some tasty bits on the blu-ray but should i wait for the directors cut which we all know will appear sometime?
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