Tomb Raider 9 / reboot Page 53

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  • MrTomFTW Moderator 10 Mar 2013 17:52:10 37,669 posts
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    My favourite part so far is when one of the enemies shouts "RUN! She has a grenade launcher!" and she shouts "That's right run! I'm coming for you all!"

    It's just a bit "FUCK YEAH!" after she's spent so long on the back foot.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
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  • MrTomFTW Moderator 10 Mar 2013 17:54:20 37,669 posts
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    Stranded87 wrote:
    they just needed to tone down the number of enemies but make them tougher/Lara weaker.
    Yeah, this probably would have worked. It's what Naughty Dog are (supposedly, we'll see) doing with Last Of Us.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • Daddy-Doom-Bar 10 Mar 2013 17:58:22 2,433 posts
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    Yeah I see your point on the number of opponents. Fewer, harder enemies would have been better with Lara only able to take one or two hits before orgasmicaly dying.

    Edited by Daddy-Doom-Bar at 17:59:15 10-03-2013

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world - Ghandi

  • King_Edward 10 Mar 2013 18:27:14 11,454 posts
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    There is a jarring disparity between cut-scene Lara and gameplay Lara. It stands out more than it does in most games because of the story's focus on Lara's character arc. It's not game breaking or anything. It just reminds you that this is a game and a story rather than a game with a story.
  • waggy79 10 Mar 2013 18:43:30 931 posts
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    Farcry 3 was just the same though. You start playing this guy who doesnt know one end of a gun from the other, the next you're John Rambo.
    Im not too critical of it because this is a game, and sometimes game design takes shortcuts for the enjoyment of the player. It's not in real time and if it was it would get dull.
  • killersrquiet 10 Mar 2013 18:43:45 1,925 posts
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    King_Edward wrote:
    There is a jarring disparity between cut-scene Lara and gameplay Lara. It stands out more than it does in most games because of the story's focus on Lara's character arc. It's not game breaking or anything. It just reminds you that this is a game and a story rather than a game with a story.
    I seen this mentioned in several reviews where the examples show a clear disconnect moving from cut scenes to actual gameplay. One reviewer even thought the cut scenes were completed elsewhere or at a different time since the difference was very pronounced.

    Not a game breaker. Just odd
  • Maturin 10 Mar 2013 18:54:57 2,936 posts
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    It's a common problem really. When you get a narrative about some character's growth which ignores the fact they've killed several hundred people by the end of the story. Far Cry 3 has to deal with the same issue.

    The solution is to have fewer killings, more reluctance, or give opportunities to proceed without so much killing. Or reflect that much slaughter in the character's emotional journey.

    I don't think it's something the industry as a whole has got to grips with yet and is cropping up more due to the more cinematic stories that games are attempting to tell. Being the little gun turret is space invaders is one thing, then telling its story with detailed facial features and close-ups without reference to the effect of killing thousands of enemies is another thing entirely.

    Can you think of any games where there's an attempt to tackle this issue?

    Edited by Maturin at 18:55:25 10-03-2013
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 10 Mar 2013 18:57:26 6,654 posts
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    Spec ops the line
  • Maturin 10 Mar 2013 19:08:03 2,936 posts
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    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    Spec ops the line
    I thought someone might suggest that. I haven't played it yet.

    Does it do a good job of handling the issue?
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 10 Mar 2013 19:11:02 6,654 posts
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    Not really tbh. If you're expecting challenging ethical questions you're out of luck but The games reasonable.

    Worth a play through definitely.
  • King_Edward 10 Mar 2013 19:18:06 11,454 posts
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    Spec Ops is about the ethical issues of the player, rather than the character. The protagonist never doubts what he's capable of.
  • khaz 10 Mar 2013 19:26:00 2,772 posts
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    Maturin wrote:
    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    Spec ops the line
    I thought someone might suggest that. I haven't played it yet.

    Does it do a good job of handling the issue?
    Red Dead Redemption attempts this really well.

    Not just in story - John Marston seeking redemption for his days running with a murderous gang and saving his family at the same time - but also mechanics. You have the capability to disarm people if you want or lasso them. Both are significantly harder to do but you get better rewards for doing so (More honour+fame). Additionally, bounties give double the monetary reward for bringing them back alive.

    Random thieves/muggers/rustlers being captured alive offers similar rewards as opposed to killing them and towns and npcs openly address you with respect.

    Being a villain isn't easy either. Towns will not welcome you at all and npcs will actively avoid you, marshalls will rally posses and chase you before you even enter towns. Doing random acts of mugging, stealing and killing can be witnessed by civilians and again you have the option to kill/capture/bribe/leave them alone before they report your crime but depending on what you do it can make things better or worse.

    Its a fantastic game and I wish more games followed its example of supporting the story with mechanics like that. Its Rockstar's best game by a country mile and I hope they build on it in GTA5. Its also their first game i've liked since GTA2 (And maybe the only openworld game I genuinely love), I didn't much care for the GTA3 games or 4.

    Edited by khaz at 19:27:42 10-03-2013
  • Maturin 10 Mar 2013 19:29:11 2,936 posts
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    That's a good example. Though you can still just kill everyone and yet go home to your wife as though nothing's happened. But I did play it in the way you described.
  • Daddy-Doom-Bar 10 Mar 2013 19:47:56 2,433 posts
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    The reason it stands out so much is the fact they've done a good job with the story side. Its all character building with the reluctance built into that, but come the combat its all slaughter, seemingly without remorse.

    I also didnt like the bit when she was captured, escaped with her bow, then all of a sudden she had all her weapons. Later the same thing happened and she did find her weapons seperately.
    Anyway, i'm still enjoying it and I think I should stop picking at it untill I've finished it.

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world - Ghandi

  • Daeltaja 10 Mar 2013 21:04:59 1,042 posts
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    Agreed, aside from Lara and the old fella, the cast is rubbish. The big Samoan dude is probably the worst.
  • Humperfunk 10 Mar 2013 21:41:36 2,072 posts
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    100%, wahey! What a game.

    PSN & NNID: Wedjwants

  • Syrette 10 Mar 2013 21:46:53 43,232 posts
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    @Humperfunk

    Or anyone else who can answer...

    Do you come across weapon parts easily enough by the end of the game to be able to fully upgrade at least one of your weapons?

    Weapon parts are just given at random, aren't they?

  • Deleted user 10 March 2013 21:51:55
    Yes.

    I fully upgraded bow and rifle without trying.
  • Syrette 10 Mar 2013 22:02:55 43,232 posts
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    @Pepsipop

    Fully fully? All parts and upgrades? So you got an achievement for one of them?

    I heard somewhere that you're more likely to get say bow parts if you're using the bow a lot at the time, but I doubt that's true.

    Edited by Syrette at 22:04:16 10-03-2013

  • Deleted user 10 March 2013 22:03:23
    Yes.
  • alexm 10 Mar 2013 22:04:14 250 posts
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    Back to the quality of the writing debate, there's a bit where Lara looks back on a freshfaced picture of her and Alex at graduation before shutting a locker door so the shot changes to a mirror reflecting her muddied/fatigued face, she then says something like 'So much has changed since then' which caused me to shout 'f**k off' at the TV. This point was already made in quite a heavy handed way through the direction of the scene and her saying it just made me cringe and remember how awful 95% of videogame stories still are. Whoever said the story bettered Uncharted needs to have a lie down.
  • Humperfunk 10 Mar 2013 22:13:30 2,072 posts
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    @Syrette

    Just finished upgrading my last weapon. I'm not 100% but from what I could tell, as you break open salvage crates, it seems to give you a weapon part every x number you do. So as long as you keep smashing them and raiding optional tombs, you'll get there.

    PSN & NNID: Wedjwants

  • Daddy-Doom-Bar 10 Mar 2013 22:19:03 2,433 posts
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    Er, I'm stuck...only those who have completed it would probably know what to do...In the Chasm Shrine, where you have to use the big cage you lift out of the ground to smash the wall and reveal a hole. How the bloody hell do you reach it? I can climb onto the top of the cage when it's down, but can't leap to the hole. I can't reach the top of the cage if I raise it up...? How do I get up?

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world - Ghandi

  • Deleted user 10 March 2013 22:23:23
    There is a ramp on one side of the room, use it to get to the top level. Then swing it and jump on it.
  • Daddy-Doom-Bar 10 Mar 2013 22:58:21 2,433 posts
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    @Goodfella and @Pepsipop Thanks! I knew the upper platform was there, and was trying to swing it, but didn't think to stand on the boxes behind me to jump up and reach it.

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world - Ghandi

  • DUFFKING 11 Mar 2013 01:20:44 7,185 posts
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    alexm wrote:
    Back to the quality of the writing debate, there's a bit where Lara looks back on a freshfaced picture of her and Alex at graduation before shutting a locker door so the shot changes to a mirror reflecting her muddied/fatigued face, she then says something like 'So much has changed since then' which caused me to shout 'f**k off' at the TV. This point was already made in quite a heavy handed way through the direction of the scene and her saying it just made me cringe and remember how awful 95% of videogame stories still are. Whoever said the story bettered Uncharted needs to have a lie down.
    Uncharted's story, especially 3's, is more than a little poor itself. Maybe it lacks the blatant stupidity of the above, but Uncharted's writing strength is it's dialogue, and its dialogue only. The characters are entirely one dimensional and the story is dictated by the set pieces the developers thought up, rather than vice versa.
  • jamesi 11 Mar 2013 06:39:21 200 posts
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    To be fair to Uncharted everyone told me to play it and raved about it but i just couldn't get into it so i guess i'm in minority there.I don't think that it follows that if you like Tomb Raider you should like Uncharted,it's just some games grab you some don't.I think it's quite an achievement that lara is the only decent character in the game and yet the game is still brilliant and keeps you involved because we can relate to her story.
  • Gambit1977 11 Mar 2013 06:41:54 9,583 posts
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    I'm honestly quite surprised at how suddenly awful Uncharted 3 is.
  • King_Edward 11 Mar 2013 07:45:20 11,454 posts
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    Gambit1977 wrote:
    I'm honestly quite surprised at how suddenly awful Uncharted 3 is.
    I know what you mean. :D

    Tbf, it's the game where it all comes apart at the seams. The characters are less relatable because the story makes no sense. There's still a wonderful "jump around and kill stuff" game there, but it's not the full package that Uncharted 2 was.

    I get why people don't like it.
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