What's America's problem? Page 174

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  • LeoliansBro 31 Dec 2013 13:27:07 41,865 posts
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    Yep, it is also of zero practical use. If we apply the Standard Model we get use it to make GPS work. If we put everything down to 'God' then we can't predict anything, because he has a will and can stop making these things around us happen at any moment. Or change what he is doing. He might suddenly not bother with dogs. Or gravity. Or make the MMR jab dangerous.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 31 Dec 2013 13:27:58 41,865 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Yeah but maybe it doesn't need external intervention. Maybe it's created for some purpose (like the hologram theory). Fucked if I know.
    ??

    Read that back to yourself. If 'it doesn't need external intervention' then it doesn't need God.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 31 Dec 2013 13:28:12 38,899 posts
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    No gravity would be quite funky...for 5 minutes :)

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • mcmonkeyplc 31 Dec 2013 13:28:43 38,899 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Yeah but maybe it doesn't need external intervention. Maybe it's created for some purpose (like the hologram theory). Fucked if I know.
    ??

    Read that back to yourself. If 'it doesn't need external intervention' then it doesn't need God.
    It needs to be created.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 31 Dec 2013 13:29:52 41,865 posts
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    And by saying that you're reducing God to a single trigger event. Or to turn it around, you're isolating a single event and calling it 'God'. Others call it The Big Bang.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 31 Dec 2013 13:30:34 41,865 posts
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    (That's a gross simplification, the Big Bang isn't the beginning of everything, just the beginning of 4 dimensional spacetime in its current format)

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 31 Dec 2013 13:33:18 38,899 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    And by saying that you're reducing God to a single trigger event. Or to turn it around, you're isolating a single event and calling it 'God'. Others call it The Big Bang.
    Yup that's what I'm doing. Until science can explain how and why the big bang happened.

    The entire universe is a different kettle of fish. How do we measure something we can't observe? It's influence on other objects?

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 13:34:58 31-12-2013

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • RyanDS 31 Dec 2013 13:34:03 8,700 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Learned the other week that the Big Bang as we all envisage it is completely wrong.

    It comes down to the fact that the 'universe' means two things. There is the 'observable universe' which is everything we can see, limited by the distance light can travel in the however-many billions of years since TBB (4.6?) and the 'actual universe' which is infinite.

    The Big Bang was a sudden dilation of the actual universe. At that time it was still infinite, just everything was compressed much closer together, and it underwent a stupendous expansion. The confusion comes from the point that the 'observable universe' was compressed to a very small point, but it wasn't surrounded by nothingness or void, but by the rest of the universe that is just beyond our current view.
    Well....that is only one theory. A version of the big crunch cycle.

    Could also be branes colliding or one of a hundred different theories (of which maybe 5? are semi plausible.)
  • Bremenacht 31 Dec 2013 13:35:11 15,756 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Learned the other week that the Big Bang as we all envisage it is completely wrong.

    It comes down to the fact that the 'universe' means two things. There is the 'observable universe' which is everything we can see, limited by the distance light can travel in the however-many billions of years since TBB (4.6?) and the 'actual universe' which is infinite.

    The Big Bang was a sudden dilation of the actual universe. At that time it was still infinite, just everything was compressed much closer together, and it underwent a stupendous expansion. The confusion comes from the point that the 'observable universe' was compressed to a very small point, but it wasn't surrounded by nothingness or void, but by the rest of the universe that is just beyond our current view.
    Ohhhhhh. Got a link?

    Is this connected with that 'holographic universe' thing the other week, that completely did my head in?

    Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day

  • LeoliansBro 31 Dec 2013 13:37:07 41,865 posts
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    RyanDS wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Learned the other week that the Big Bang as we all envisage it is completely wrong.

    It comes down to the fact that the 'universe' means two things. There is the 'observable universe' which is everything we can see, limited by the distance light can travel in the however-many billions of years since TBB (4.6?) and the 'actual universe' which is infinite.

    The Big Bang was a sudden dilation of the actual universe. At that time it was still infinite, just everything was compressed much closer together, and it underwent a stupendous expansion. The confusion comes from the point that the 'observable universe' was compressed to a very small point, but it wasn't surrounded by nothingness or void, but by the rest of the universe that is just beyond our current view.
    Well....that is only one theory. A version of the big crunch cycle.

    Could also be branes colliding or one of a hundred different theories (of which maybe 5? are semi plausible.)
    Yep, but my point is that the Big Bang that we all think of (everything was a single dot which exploded) is wrong and doesn't form a part of any scientific theory.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 31 Dec 2013 13:37:50 41,865 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:

    Ohhhhhh. Got a link?

    Is this connected with that 'holographic universe' thing the other week, that completely did my head in?
    Got it from 'Minute Physics' on Youtube. Sadly can't remember which it is, gimme a sec.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 31 Dec 2013 13:51:43 41,865 posts
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    Check 'How Big is the Universe' for the first part. I can't find the Big Bang explanation though, I think it's an older one and the descriptions don't help.

    Just watch them all though, they're great. Enjoy your afternoon!

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Dirtbox 31 Dec 2013 14:01:05 76,340 posts
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    There are half a dozen different theories, the latest being the one that we've learned from the Higgs Boson particle. Namely that the universe and all matter are inherently unstable and the universe may be chain reacting several new big bangs within it right at this moment.

    Or there's the string theory multiverse where child universes are constantly born and parent universes dissipate forever like bubbles in a bath.

    The original Big Bang theory is still as valid, but they're all theories and impossible to prove or disprove at this point.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • LeoliansBro 31 Dec 2013 14:02:51 41,865 posts
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    Yes I know, new theories crop up all the time. My point was that the Big Bang that we all think we know in our heads was never a theory at all, new or old.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 31 Dec 2013 14:03:50 38,899 posts
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    Didn't know the Higgs Boson led to a new theory of the universe. That's pretty cool including the theory it's self :)

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 31 Dec 2013 14:14:35 41,865 posts
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    I recommend The Particle At The End Of The Universe for those wanting to find out more about the fundamental nature of everything. Some lovely pointers as to the next questions we have to ask in there as well.

    For example, every particle has a symmetrical partner and is associated with a fundamental force which 'caused' it (that's a horrible word to use) APART FROM the Higgs. There's no real reason for it to exist that we know of, nor space in our model for such an explanation, but it exists anyway. Why?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 31 Dec 2013 14:16:00 38,899 posts
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    God wills it.

    :)

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • urban 2 Jan 2014 15:38:07 10,893 posts
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    @mcmonkeyplc
  • DrStrangelove 2 Jan 2014 15:46:14 2,566 posts
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    So Colorado legalised Cannabis. What's Europe's problem, actually?
  • kalel 2 Jan 2014 15:50:55 83,875 posts
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    It's decriminalised in more places in Europe than anywhere else in the world.
  • Khanivor 2 Jan 2014 15:53:25 39,891 posts
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    I think it's Uruguay who became the first nation to totally legalise it at the end of last year.
  • kalel 2 Jan 2014 15:54:25 83,875 posts
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    From April 2014, but yeah.
  • DrStrangelove 2 Jan 2014 15:59:16 2,566 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    It's decriminalised in more places in Europe than anywhere else in the world.
    Colorado legalised the selling of Cannabis, which is beyond most European countries, and far beyond Germany or England.
  • DrStrangelove 2 Jan 2014 16:00:29 2,566 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    I think it's Uruguay who became the first nation to totally legalise it at the end of last year.
    It is, I didn't mean to question that. But what does it tell us if Uruguay is more progressive than Colorado, and Colorado more progressive than most of Europe?

    We like to think we're progressive, but in fact we're backwards cunts.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 16:02:32 02-01-2014
  • mcmonkeyplc 2 Jan 2014 16:01:14 38,899 posts
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    @urban :) I'm not sure why you directed that at me though.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Tom_Servo 2 Jan 2014 16:01:25 15,539 posts
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    It does feel like the beginning of a process. I guess it'll be more likely to start in North/South America because of the more direct impact drug gangs will have there, particularly in South America.
  • mcmonkeyplc 2 Jan 2014 16:03:18 38,899 posts
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    DrStrangelove wrote:
    Khanivor wrote:
    I think it's Uruguay who became the first nation to totally legalise it at the end of last year.
    It is, I didn't mean to question that. But what does it tell us if Uruguay is more progressive than Colorado, and Colorado more progressive than most of Europe?

    We like to think we're progressive, but in fact we're backwards cunts.
    Yes, because drug legalisation is the height of civilised society.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Salaman 2 Jan 2014 16:05:28 18,245 posts
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    You're just grumpy because you want to get high.
  • Tom_Servo 2 Jan 2014 16:07:43 15,539 posts
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    I don't think the move toward drug legalisation is necessarily a condoning of cannabis use, which rather deflates the point of this legislation being a great progressive victory.

    In fact, I think Uruguay have been quite keen to make clear it's a move against gangsters and an acknowledgement that the 'war on drugs' hasn't worked.
  • DrStrangelove 2 Jan 2014 16:12:28 2,566 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    DrStrangelove wrote:
    Khanivor wrote:
    I think it's Uruguay who became the first nation to totally legalise it at the end of last year.
    It is, I didn't mean to question that. But what does it tell us if Uruguay is more progressive than Colorado, and Colorado more progressive than most of Europe?

    We like to think we're progressive, but in fact we're backwards cunts.
    Yes, because drug legalisation is the height of civilised society.
    I see your point, but the greatest hypocrisy of our societies is to criminalise cannabis while allowing alcohol. Every October, Munich celebrates the world's largest drug festival. In Bavaria, beer is classified staple food and hence enjoys tax relief.

    Alcohol is legal in all other countries too. On this background, outlawing a less dangerous drug like cannabis is fucking ludicrous. Either ban alcohol (which didn't work back then in the States), or legalise cannabis.

    Why not legalise it and have dealers pay taxes? There could be quality tests to prevent ugly fraud/hygiene issues, and crime would be fundamentally get rid of one source of income. Instead of spending lots of money for police, much tax money could be earned by something similar to tobacco tax.

    I'm not even a cannabis smoker, but outlawing it costs loads of money, supports crime and is generally ridiculously hypocritical.
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