What's America's problem? Page 172

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  • Bremenacht 12 Nov 2013 09:13:16 17,852 posts
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24907851
  • ResidentKnievel 19 Nov 2013 19:09:22 6,184 posts
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    Shocking developments

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • RedSparrows 19 Nov 2013 19:11:01 22,351 posts
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    Man, he just keeps getting unlucky doesn't he! All those guns around him, what is he to do?
  • localnotail 10 Dec 2013 22:39:57 23,093 posts
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    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • senso-ji 12 Dec 2013 23:19:18 5,860 posts
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    Fox news presenter: Jesus and Santa are both white. Fact.

    Edited by senso-ji at 23:19:31 12-12-2013
  • Psychotext 12 Dec 2013 23:29:10 54,017 posts
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    Couldn't make it up.
  • FWB 12 Dec 2013 23:30:21 44,360 posts
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    Well it's a fact that Santa's image has been predominantly of a white guy. Whether that should change or is exclusive is another valid debate. I'd argue that if we are trying to move beyond a focus on race then you keep him as he has been, because it shouldn't be an issue. But of course it is easy for me to say that as a white guy, as I don't find him exclusive. That all said, a black Santa is still a Santa. Anyway, it's up to whoever is using him to decide how they want to represent him.

    Won't dignify the comments on Jesus with a response.

    Edited by FWB at 23:35:58 12-12-2013
  • Khanivor 13 Dec 2013 00:01:34 40,579 posts
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    Santa pretty much is white, seeing as he is a construct from a few very white cultures.

    Making a point out of it is a duck move though. And the Jesus aspect turns it into a early 21st century right-wing American aggressive-idiocy-is-mana quote.
  • DrStrangelove 13 Dec 2013 04:00:46 3,770 posts
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    But Jesus is a historical figure, which is a verifiable fact, so he was white, and hence Santa is white and not black or a penguin. Valid point.

    That is, unless some historic Jewish sources are right that describe Jesus as a man "who could not fly with his tiny black wings, spoke strange tongues with his golden beak and was unhappy with his attempts to slide down the sand on his belly".
  • FWB 13 Dec 2013 08:14:53 44,360 posts
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    Santa is white because he's a white western mythical creation. So you can make of him what you want, really.

    And is it historical fact that Jesus was white? As I understand it most historians some bloke with that name existed, but there is no consensus on what he looked like or did.
  • Dirtbox 13 Dec 2013 08:45:54 77,765 posts
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    Well, it's likely there was a Jew called Jesus, but whether he was the son of god or not is open to interpretation.

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  • Deckard1 13 Dec 2013 09:04:37 27,773 posts
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    Was there actually any proof that Jesus existed? Its always rolled out by god touchers that there's solid proof that he he did - what is it?

    Hush you ponce

  • Dirtbox 13 Dec 2013 09:05:11 77,765 posts
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    It says so in the bible.

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  • Deckard1 13 Dec 2013 09:06:19 27,773 posts
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    Just say some crazy person didn't believe everything they read in the bible as fact, is there any other evidence? Like a drivers licence or something.

    Hush you ponce

  • Dirtbox 13 Dec 2013 09:10:07 77,765 posts
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    Nope.

    There's some incredibly intricate, yet tentative "proof" available if you google it, but it's wishful thinking in the extreme.

    Logically he must have, I strongly believe he was a real person who was likely a bit of a trouble maker for the status quo. Dunno about the son of god stuff, that's not for anyone to be able to say with any authority.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 09:26:53 13-12-2013

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  • sport 13 Dec 2013 09:55:54 12,706 posts
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    DB sounds like he's born-again.
  • RedSparrows 13 Dec 2013 10:15:40 22,351 posts
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    Wait, DB is Jesus?
  • EMarkM 13 Dec 2013 10:16:09 3,173 posts
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    Heh.

    "English: If It Was Good Enough For Jesus, It's Good Enough For You."
  • Huggybear 13 Dec 2013 10:31:34 718 posts
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    Jesus was a white man from Oxford

    And on the topic of Santa: it all depends on which Santa you're talking about. If it's the modern American one as seen in Coca-Cola ads, sure, he's white all right.

    But the original Saint Nicholas was from what is now Turkey, so he probably wasn't all that white.
  • RedSparrows 13 Dec 2013 10:36:41 22,351 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Santa pretty much is white, seeing as he is a construct from a few very white cultures.

    Yeah, from what I understand of 'his background', it's not really an issue. I've not read the report that suggests he be changed to a bird or whatever, but from what little I understand it strikes me as one of those intensely well-meaning, but ultimately damaging attempts at limiting harm.

    I find often that people wailing about political correctness, 'can't offend nobody these days' (Hey! Diana was a fucking paedophile! HOW DARE YOU!!!), 'liberal' bla bla bla are often responding to a news story based on a single, discrete, limited, localised (sometimes larger) example of well-meaning but idiotically unrealistic attempts by some confused person to improve the lot of their charges.

    What's more damaging is that their actions tend not to improve what they want improved, but damage all other genuine, more realistic and more pressing, needs to redress imbalances and fight injustices. It fuels the fire of bastards, and pisses all the moderates off. Father Christmas doesn't 'need' to be black, or Asian, or a bird, or whatever. Saying that seems silly. What's more depressing is that, in getting offended by it (ironically, as apparently 'offence is forbidden' according to the very people who get morally outraged by such ideas), people tend to lash out at other things perceived to be of the same ilk. Thus, at the most extreme points in America (in public, anyway), you get 'liberals hating the USA' etc, and they all want 'Santa' turned into a 'black lesbian disabled woman' bla bla bla.

    /ramble

    Edited by RedSparrows at 10:38:16 13-12-2013
  • Deckard1 13 Dec 2013 10:37:57 27,773 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Dunno about the son of god stuff, that's not for anyone to be able to say with any authority.
    I would have a fair crack at it

    Hush you ponce

  • glaeken 13 Dec 2013 10:39:01 11,144 posts
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    So is black pete white as well?
  • challenge_hanukkah 13 Dec 2013 20:03:06 74 posts
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  • FWB 13 Dec 2013 21:32:37 44,360 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    Was there actually any proof that Jesus existed? Its always rolled out by god touchers that there's solid proof that he he did - what is it?
    I'm not going to cite anything, cos quite frankly I can't be arsed cos it isn't that important to me, but I believe it is generally accepted some bloke with that name existed at that time. I say this as an atheist. However, the debate continues over what he did with his life.

    The evidence, iirc, comes from written records. There do seem to be enough of them. But hey, I'm no biblical scholar, cos I have better things to do with my time; such as watch the the Star Wars trilogy.
  • Dirtbox 13 Dec 2013 21:48:46 77,765 posts
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    I think there's one written Roman record concerning a man called Christo who was the leader of the christians getting crucified, but it's all a bit sketchy from there on.

    It's pretty much impossible for a vast religion surrounding a single man to have no existing person at it's core though.

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  • cubbymoore 13 Dec 2013 22:17:46 36,488 posts
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    Well it did have one man at its core. Paul. He founded the Church, and his accounts have been dated as the oldest.
  • DrStrangelove 13 Dec 2013 23:04:12 3,770 posts
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    There are some deputable non-Christian sources, the most reliable probably being Tacitus. I guess it's not certain, but very likely that he existed.

    He probably was not the son of God, just a sect leader. Albeit a very interesting one.


    @Dirtbox

    Does it really make that much of a difference for a religion if a person actually existed? I mean, if Buddha actually existed, or Laotse, or Adam, in the end what has shaped history was always the person from the texts/traditions. I don't think much would change if those did exist or not.

    You could argue that for the first "spark" to start a fire, there needed to be an actual person who set things in motion and who everyone refers to. But I think there could just be anecdotes of an imaginary idol which with time transformed into a story of an actually existing person, as I imagine to be the case with most other biblical figures.
  • Khanivor 13 Dec 2013 23:26:54 40,579 posts
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    If Jesus did exist and was in fact white then he was the only white man in Palestine.
  • Mola_Ram 13 Dec 2013 23:44:15 7,262 posts
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    Maybe he was an albino. It would explain the magical powers.
  • Khanivor 13 Dec 2013 23:45:40 40,579 posts
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    If he was a ginger that would explain the crucifixion.
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