What's America's problem? Page 6

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  • ronuds 24 Jul 2009 15:26:29 21,788 posts
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    Can we lose the ridiculous notion that only rich people have health care in US now? Unless you confuse "rich" with "having a job"?

    Personally, as long as the reform doesn't affect me, I couldn't give a toss. I'm just not thrilled with what it might do to our already exploding deficit.
  • DaisyD 24 Jul 2009 15:34:15 11,826 posts
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    I don't think anyone is making that assumption. However, depending on your circumstances, you can afford more (either better insurance or cover things the insurance won't pay out).

    My sister and brother-in-law and there kids maybe moving permenantly to the states on a religious workers visa next year. If they do, they're not allowed a salary as that's the terms of the visa, and the church can't afford much anyway. They will have to live off Medicaid.

    I maybe wrong, but I understood it's not mandatory that the employer provides the employee with insurance, although most do to varying levels.
  • Articulate-Troll 24 Jul 2009 15:38:19 3,101 posts
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    It may not be just the richest who have health insurance but it's the wealthiest who benefit, especially when you consider the extra charges not covered by the insurance. You may not care at the moment but I suspect if you ever caught a life threatening disease that requires vast amounts of expensive medication you might have a slightly less laissez-faire attitude.
  • ronuds 24 Jul 2009 15:39:14 21,788 posts
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    How can you say nobody's making the assumption when the OP talks about the rich in conjunction with health care - and just about every comment afterwards mentions the rich for the next 2 pages? :p

    It's not mandatory that an employer provide workers with insurance, but you'd normally only find that to be the case in places like McDonalds or Wal-Mart. Providing healthcare and other benefits is what most companies try and do to stay competitive. I'm not going to work somewhere without health care when I can go across the street and get it.
  • Whizzo 24 Jul 2009 15:40:23 43,187 posts
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    Just as well the US has full employment then.

    Oh.

    This space left intentionally blank.

  • Deleted user 24 July 2009 15:41:56
    Well... if you can.

    It'd also open up the freelance market a bit for the Americans if they finally join civilisation - at the moment you seem pretty damn fucked unless you earn shedloads.
  • Dougs 24 Jul 2009 15:42:07 68,385 posts
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    ronuds wrote:
    It's not mandatory that an employer provide workers with insurance, but you'd normally only find that to be the case in places like McDonalds or Wal-Mart. Providing healthcare and other benefits is what most companies try and do to stay competitive. I'm not going to work somewhere without health care when I can go across the street and get it.

    That's a fair point but it doesn't escape the fact that there are many in the US that are poor, without jobs and no hope of receiving anything like the care they need if they fall ill.
  • ronuds 24 Jul 2009 15:46:30 21,788 posts
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    Articulate-Troll wrote:
    It may not be just the richest who have health insurance but it's the wealthiest who benefit, especially when you consider the extra charges not covered by the insurance. You may not care at the moment but I suspect if you ever caught a life threatening disease that requires vast amounts of expensive medication you might have a slightly less laissez-faire attitude.

    More assumptions! I know very much about life threatening diseases and what it can do to a bank account and family. Too much.

    Ironically, we have an insurance for that too, which is very cheap. It's called Critical Illness insurance.
  • Latin 24 Jul 2009 15:48:11 3,778 posts
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    But will that health care cover 100% costs of everything? From ambulance costs, surgery, drugs, nights in hospital, physio, check ups etc etc? You'll still end up paying on top of your insurance coz the fuckers are just there to make money.

    I know it's only anecdotal but when you read people's stories about how "I only had to pay $400 instead of $4000 because I had insurance", you think to yourself, well what's the point of the insurance then!?

    As a serious question, how much does insurance cost that covers absolutely everything with no questions asked?
  • ronuds 24 Jul 2009 15:49:10 21,788 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    ronuds wrote:
    It's not mandatory that an employer provide workers with insurance, but you'd normally only find that to be the case in places like McDonalds or Wal-Mart. Providing healthcare and other benefits is what most companies try and do to stay competitive. I'm not going to work somewhere without health care when I can go across the street and get it.

    That's a fair point but it doesn't escape the fact that there are many in the US that are poor, without jobs and no hope of receiving anything like the care they need if they fall ill.

    I understand that. I don't oppose the initiative.

    I think if you all live in the US you might understand more why some are opposed. Yes, there are a lot of poor people who really need help, but there are also a LOT of lazy mother effers who sit on their asses all day and live off taxpayers money. I think that has a lot to do with the contempt against the reform.

  • DaisyD 24 Jul 2009 15:53:55 11,826 posts
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    ronuds wrote:
    Articulate-Troll wrote:
    It may not be just the richest who have health insurance but it's the wealthiest who benefit, especially when you consider the extra charges not covered by the insurance. You may not care at the moment but I suspect if you ever caught a life threatening disease that requires vast amounts of expensive medication you might have a slightly less laissez-faire attitude.

    More assumptions! I know very much about life threatening diseases and what it can do to a bank account and family. Too much.

    Ironically, we have an insurance for that too, which is very cheap. It's called Critical Illness insurance.

    We can have Critical Illness Insurance too. However our hospital treatment is free. For example, when my best friend, age 30, was diagnosed with Breast Cancer, she was bought as soon as possible and treated - then treated continually for 2 + years until completely clear. That was free of charge. Critical Illness Insurance paid her wages lost through being treated.
  • Deleted user 24 July 2009 15:54:14
    Yeah, we have those as well.

    Edit: @ rotund
  • ronuds 24 Jul 2009 15:54:28 21,788 posts
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    Latin wrote:
    But will that health care cover 100% costs of everything? From ambulance costs, surgery, drugs, nights in hospital, physio, check ups etc etc? You'll still end up paying on top of your insurance coz the fuckers are just there to make money.

    I know it's only anecdotal but when you read people's stories about how "I only had to pay $400 instead of $4000 because I had insurance", you think to yourself, well what's the point of the insurance then!?

    As a serious question, how much does insurance cost that covers absolutely everything with no questions asked?

    Critical Illness is a lump sum payment. You pay about $5 a month and if you ever have cancer or any other kind of major disease, you'll get paid whatever the policy is good for. Most policies are for something like $50,000 - $100,000.

    No-questions-asked insurance? I don't believe I can get that where I work, but I'd imagine it would cost something like $250 per month. For an individual, you're probably talking near $1000 to $2000 a month or so.
  • DaisyD 24 Jul 2009 15:55:58 11,826 posts
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    ronuds wrote:
    Dougs wrote:
    ronuds wrote:
    It's not mandatory that an employer provide workers with insurance, but you'd normally only find that to be the case in places like McDonalds or Wal-Mart. Providing healthcare and other benefits is what most companies try and do to stay competitive. I'm not going to work somewhere without health care when I can go across the street and get it.

    That's a fair point but it doesn't escape the fact that there are many in the US that are poor, without jobs and no hope of receiving anything like the care they need if they fall ill.

    I understand that. I don't oppose the initiative.

    I think if you all live in the US you might understand more why some are opposed. Yes, there are a lot of poor people who really need help, but there are also a LOT of lazy mother effers who sit on their asses all day and live off taxpayers money. I think that has a lot to do with the contempt against the reform.


    We have those too. They're still entitled to the same free health care as anyone else.
  • deem 24 Jul 2009 15:57:20 31,641 posts
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    Americans.
  • Articulate-Troll 24 Jul 2009 15:57:43 3,101 posts
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    Even if there was a huge amount of lazy people living off the state (I suspect there are a lot more who have no choice) do you think it's okay to deprive of them of basic health care?
  • HoriZon 24 Jul 2009 15:58:12 13,565 posts
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    So if your in say a car accident and could die as you have a spike in your stomach or something they wont treat you at all unless you have insurance they will let you bleed out on a table ??

    Thats fucked up.

    I used to be a gamer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee.

  • Deleted user 24 July 2009 15:58:51
    HoriZon wrote:
    So if your in say a car accident and could die as you have a spike in your stomach or something they wont treat you at all unless you have insurance they will let you bleed out on a table ??

    Thats fucked up.
    Nah, they have to try to keep you alive

    Edit: /accidentally pressed submit instead of 'back'. Still dangerpuss managed to finish a complete sentence...
  • Deleted user 24 July 2009 15:59:28
    HoriZon wrote:
    So if your in say a car accident and could die as you have a spike in your stomach or something they wont treat you at all unless you have insurance they will let you bleed out on a table ??

    Thats fucked up.

    They have to treat you but they will most likely bankrupt you by doing it.
  • ronuds 24 Jul 2009 15:59:58 21,788 posts
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    Well, I'm just saying the lazy are probably ruining it for the people who really need it. Although, it seems like the bill will pass in one form or another.

    But 3 years ago my mother was diagnosed with cancer and had treatments for a couple years as well. We're still paying the bills, but I think the total she was charged over that amount of time was about $15,000...out of pocket.
  • ronuds 24 Jul 2009 16:01:59 21,788 posts
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    dangerpuss wrote:
    HoriZon wrote:
    So if your in say a car accident and could die as you have a spike in your stomach or something they wont treat you at all unless you have insurance they will let you bleed out on a table ??

    Thats fucked up.

    They have to treat you but they will most likely bankrupt you by doing it.

    Right. You'll receive treatment and then a bill.
  • HoriZon 24 Jul 2009 16:03:55 13,565 posts
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    What if you couldnt pay the bill at all ? would they make you pay it instalments?

    I still cant get over the fact that they charge you over $7000 to have a baby, do a lot of people have the baby at home (DIY Baby) to avoid paying this ??

    I used to be a gamer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee.

  • ronuds 24 Jul 2009 16:05:23 21,788 posts
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    I don't know of many people having babies without already having health care. Insurance will pay for just about all of that, depending on what your deductible is. I'd imagine those w/o insurance might have the child at home, though.

    If you can't pay a bill they eventually send it to a collection agency who will make a deal with your or harrass you until the end of time.
  • Latin 24 Jul 2009 16:07:12 3,778 posts
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    ronuds wrote:
    Critical Illness is a lump sum payment. You pay about $5 a month and if you ever have cancer or any other kind of major disease, you'll get paid whatever the policy is good for. Most policies are for something like $50,000 - $100,000.

    No-questions-asked insurance? I don't believe I can get that where I work, but I'd imagine it would cost something like $250 per month. For an individual, you're probably talking near $1000 to $2000 a month or so.

    I pay 10% of my salary for all that AND have a private medical scheme with my company (as well as life insurance etc). You yanks are crazy!

    If you claim on your insurance for minor injuries does it go up in the future as well? By that I mean if you break your arm or something rather than have a heart attack.
  • chopsen 24 Jul 2009 16:07:44 16,125 posts
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    ronuds wrote:
    It's not mandatory that an employer provide workers with insurance, but you'd normally only find that to be the case in places like McDonalds or Wal-Mart. Providing healthcare and other benefits is what most companies try and do to stay competitive. I'm not going to work somewhere without health care when I can go across the street and get it.

    This is damaging the US economy and increasing health and wealth inequalities. It's a no-win set up.
  • ondines_curse 24 Jul 2009 16:42:08 30 posts
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    What do they get for their taxes in the US if not healthcare?

    The NHS isn't perfect but it is something to be proud of.
  • chopsen 24 Jul 2009 16:44:48 16,125 posts
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    ronuds wrote:
    Well, I'm just saying the lazy are probably ruining it for the people who really need it. Although, it seems like the bill will pass in one form or another.

    No, it's the cost of healthcare that is ruining for everybody, not the poor people. The insurance system has led to escalating costs beyond anyone's control and affordability. It was the cost of healthcare insurance that brought the America car industry to it's knees, not the crumbling of tertiary financial services.
  • DaisyD 24 Jul 2009 16:48:37 11,826 posts
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    ronuds wrote:
    Well, I'm just saying the lazy are probably ruining it for the people who really need it. Although, it seems like the bill will pass in one form or another.

    But 3 years ago my mother was diagnosed with cancer and had treatments for a couple years as well. We're still paying the bills, but I think the total she was charged over that amount of time was about $15,000...out of pocket.

    I don't get your point. Your insurance didn't cover it all and you're still paying the bill. Maybe you think $15,000 is cheap for 2 years worth of treatment. All I'm saying is we'd get the same for free.
  • ronuds 24 Jul 2009 16:51:49 21,788 posts
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    DaisyD wrote:
    ronuds wrote:
    Well, I'm just saying the lazy are probably ruining it for the people who really need it. Although, it seems like the bill will pass in one form or another.

    But 3 years ago my mother was diagnosed with cancer and had treatments for a couple years as well. We're still paying the bills, but I think the total she was charged over that amount of time was about $15,000...out of pocket.

    I don't get your point. Your insurance didn't cover it all and you're still paying the bill. Maybe you think $15,000 is cheap for 2 years worth of treatment. All I'm saying is we'd get the same for free.

    I wasn't really trying to make a point. Just comparing free to what we might have to pay for a major illness. You saw how I said 3 or 4 times that I wasn't opposed to the initiative?

    @ Latin - your premium won't go up if you break an arm. That's car insurance.
  • DaisyD 24 Jul 2009 16:54:31 11,826 posts
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    ronuds wrote:
    Well, I'm just saying the lazy are probably ruining it for the people who really need it. Although, it seems like the bill will pass in one form or another.


    Nope. The Healthcare industry is ruining it for everybody.
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