What's America's problem?

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  • ecureuil 23 Jul 2009 23:36:37 76,877 posts
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    There seems to be a ton of opposition to Obama's proposed reformation of their health system, and I cannot figure out why. Do the rich folk just not want their tax dollars going towards helping poorer people, or is there something obvious I'm missing here?
  • Physically_Insane 23 Jul 2009 23:37:08 8,933 posts
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    'cause they're fat innit.
  • JuanKerr 23 Jul 2009 23:38:59 36,280 posts
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    Can't blame them - poor people are shit.
  • DaisyD 23 Jul 2009 23:39:32 11,826 posts
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    Ken Anderson supports it.

    They should all be forced to watch Sicko so they realise how ripped off and hard done by they actually are.
  • Bill-Gates-is-Evil 23 Jul 2009 23:39:37 8,934 posts
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    The issue at the core of this for those on the right is liberty.
  • Latin 23 Jul 2009 23:40:05 3,710 posts
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    People fear change, especially rich people who fear change that can make the poor better off.
  • Articulate-Troll 23 Jul 2009 23:40:16 3,101 posts
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    Thought the thread was gonna be about this.
  • Deleted user 23 July 2009 23:40:20
    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    The issue at the core of this for those on the right is liberty.
    Say that in English please.
  • localnotail 23 Jul 2009 23:40:28 23,093 posts
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    the rich folk just don't want their tax dollars going towards helping poorer people.

    it's not the American Way

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • Metalfish 23 Jul 2009 23:40:39 8,819 posts
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    America has a very, very strong sense of individualism coupled with decades of anti socialised health-care, for want of a better word, propaganda. The Soviet states' (especially Cuba) approaches to healthcare haven't helped, as these are the actions of the "enemy" leaving any politician who has even remotely similar policies open to all sorts of attack.
  • Latin 23 Jul 2009 23:41:39 3,710 posts
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    Articulate-Troll wrote:
    Thought the thread was gonna be about this.

    TBH the thread title could refer to a shit load of things...
  • Red-Moose 23 Jul 2009 23:41:52 5,346 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    There seems to be a ton of opposition to Obama's proposed reformation of their health system, and I cannot figure out why. Do the rich white folk just not want their tax dollars going towards helping poorer black people, or is there something obvious I'm missing here?
  • President_Weasel 23 Jul 2009 23:42:35 9,383 posts
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    The issue at the core of this for those congresscritters and senators on the right is "thank you very much for the campaign contributions mr health insurance lobbyist, suddenly I feel the strong urge to defend everyone's freedom to be forced to have expensive private health insurance"
  • Deleted user 23 July 2009 23:43:46
    They're paranoid about losing control or having to contribute to looking after others. This may be because of decades of obsession about communism, it may be because those that oppose it are far more vocal about it.

    I don't think America is prepared to give that much control to the Government, either through trust issues or something deeper. There's also the crazies like Glen Beck at al at Fox that are doing nothing but shout about how the Government is taking control away from them and creating a 'socialist' identity.

    I understand a reluctance to hand Government power but insurance companies do not work for something like health (except if you're wealthy) and they need to learn that. I've seen them saying the American healthcare is the best in the world and it may be for the wealthy but as an overall system it's way off the best in the world. The people opposed don't seem to even want to recognise that people are dying like it's a third world country in some areas.
  • Bill-Gates-is-Evil 23 Jul 2009 23:43:59 8,934 posts
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    CrispyXUK wrote:
    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    The issue at the core of this for those on the right is liberty.
    Say that in English please.

    American's are granted the right to pursue happiness, not to have it. Making health care a "right" is retarded.

    If we really want to help the actually poor, lets get to work on Africa where people really are poor.

    There is inequality in health care, sure, but the medical system here produces an absolute vast majority of medical advances. I used to live near Texas Medical Center in houston, and Europeans, Canadians, the Chinese would all fly there for treatment.
  • Latin 23 Jul 2009 23:45:32 3,710 posts
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    DaisyD wrote:
    Ken Anderson supports it.

    They should all be forced to watch Sicko so they realise how ripped off and hard done by they actually are.

    Sicko is quite interesting, although it makes me want to move to France which is not good!
  • President_Weasel 23 Jul 2009 23:45:55 9,383 posts
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    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    CrispyXUK wrote:
    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    The issue at the core of this for those on the right is liberty.
    Say that in English please.

    American's are granted the right to pursue happiness, not to have it. Making health care a "right" is retarded.

    If we really want to help the actually poor, lets get to work on Africa where people really are poor.

    There is inequality in health care, sure, but the medical system here produces an absolute vast majority of medical advances. I used to live near Texas Medical Center in houston, and Europeans, Canadians, the Chinese would all fly there for treatment.

    Yeah, rich ones!

    There are medical charities at work in America now providing basic healthcare to the poor. Charities. Richest country int he world and you can't even look after your own properly. Africa my arse, try Alabama.
  • Deleted user 23 July 2009 23:46:07
    So help the rich and fuck the poor (that are living in America)?
  • Khanivor 23 Jul 2009 23:46:15 40,859 posts
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    CrispyXUK wrote:
    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    The issue at the core of this for those on the right is liberty.
    Say that in English please.

    A lot of poor and reasonably well-off people buy the shit peddled to them by very rich people.

    It's fucking mind-boggling. There are adverts on the TV from 'patient's' right groups saying you will die from a brain tumor if you get socialised medicine. As opposed to dying from a brain tumor with no pain killers from no health care.

    I have yet to hear one remotely sane reason for opposing reform, other than ones that correctly state it doesn't go nearly far enough.

    Apparently there are a huge swathe of retards who believe having an insurance bean-counter between them and their doctor is preferable to having a government bureaucrat between doctors and their mansions and sports cars.
  • JuanKerr 23 Jul 2009 23:46:30 36,280 posts
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    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    American's are granted the right to pursue happiness, not to have it. Making health care a "right" is retarded.

    If we really want to help the actually poor, lets get to work on Africa where people really are poor.

    So you don't think that if you live in a civilised country and pay taxes that you should have a right to healthcare? You are aware that this is 2009 aren't you?
  • Articulate-Troll 23 Jul 2009 23:46:47 3,101 posts
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    The irony is American's pay a much higher percentage of their GDP on the military then other developed nations. I guess blowing shit up is a lot more important than balancing out society.
  • FWB 23 Jul 2009 23:47:15 44,670 posts
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    It's very simple. Some people are making a lot of money under the current system.
  • ecureuil 23 Jul 2009 23:47:18 76,877 posts
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    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    CrispyXUK wrote:
    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    The issue at the core of this for those on the right is liberty.
    Say that in English please.

    American's are granted the right to pursue happiness, not to have it. Making health care a "right" is retarded.

    If we really want to help the actually poor, lets get to work on Africa where people really are poor.

    There is inequality in health care, sure, but the medical system here produces an absolute vast majority of medical advances. I used to live near Texas Medical Center in houston, and Europeans, Canadians, the Chinese would all fly there for treatment.

    Why would you not help your own citizens? Isn't your country called "United" States? Because that attitude seems pretty fucking far from united.

    A free health plan wouldn't mean you can no longer seek private health if you so choose.
  • Deleted user 23 July 2009 23:48:27
    FWB wrote:
    It's very simple. Some people are making a lot of money under the current system.

    Influential people.
  • Deleted user 23 July 2009 23:48:30
    Khanivor wrote:

    It's fucking mind-boggling. There are adverts on the TV from 'patient's' right groups saying you will die from a brain tumor if you get socialised medicine. As opposed to dying from a brain tumor with no pain killers from no health care.
    0_o
  • DaisyD 23 Jul 2009 23:48:33 11,826 posts
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    Latin wrote:
    DaisyD wrote:
    Ken Anderson supports it.

    They should all be forced to watch Sicko so they realise how ripped off and hard done by they actually are.

    Sicko is quite interesting, although it makes me want to move to France which is not good!

    I agree, although for me it's make me want to move to France. Oh well, I guess Bermuda and the free Health Insurance I'll get there with my job will have to do.

    /sighs
  • Syrette 23 Jul 2009 23:48:37 43,600 posts
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    BGiE is quite well off I imagine, well he sounds like the sort of guy who lives off his parents. Paying for his own health care isn't a worry.

  • ecureuil 23 Jul 2009 23:49:44 76,877 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    CrispyXUK wrote:
    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    The issue at the core of this for those on the right is liberty.
    Say that in English please.

    A lot of poor and reasonably well-off people buy the shit peddled to them by very rich people.

    It's fucking mind-boggling. There are adverts on the TV from 'patient's' right groups saying you will die from a brain tumor if you get socialised medicine. As opposed to dying from a brain tumor with no pain killers from no health care.

    I saw that commercial. I also read that the woman in it had to pay over $100,000 in medical expenses and remortgage her house, etc. The commercial is genuinely terrifying to me.
  • Metalfish 23 Jul 2009 23:50:00 8,819 posts
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    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    Americans are granted the right to pursue happiness, not to have it.
    I can't remember which of your founding fathers it is that you paraphrase, but a) your country isn't exactly how they imagined it should be, now is it? b) what's wrong with a bit of eudaimonia/hedonism anyway?
  • Fatiguez 23 Jul 2009 23:52:00 8,744 posts
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    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    Making health care a "right" is retarded.

    glol
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