News of the World hacking case Page 95

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  • RedSparrows 29 May 2012 17:59:12 21,991 posts
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    Madgod_Dc wrote:
    @darkmorgado
    in relation to 1984, we are currently around 1974.
    Except the likelihood of an English Socialist overthrow is about as strong as me being a pig tomorrow.

    But you know, details.
  • LeoliansBro 29 May 2012 19:12:00 43,170 posts
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    So: Madgod dcp. Male in his twenties. Brought up on a diet of sitcoms full of beautiful people, developed a fixated sense of entitlement while obviously not reflecting on his own situation or indeed checking in the mirror. Cruelly cast out onto a world where merit and charm are much more important than self-importance and body hair, his initial instinct is to retreat into his personal absorption and cuddle himself to a peaceful calm.

    But wait! What are these facts the internet can provide! Maybe things happen for a reason! Maybe there is a deeper truth out there, one that most people can't admit. One that requires a mind of steel, a crusading intellect, and all the things he was promised were his to take, ready and waiting. This is the important knowledge, the superiority he'd always known was part of his birthright. He's better than everyone else. He gets it. Everyone else doesn't. Dismissed as a conspiracy nut, he cradles the real answers, like that knight at the end of the Last Crusade.

    But what is the point of such bounteous knowledge if he cannot share it? People will still look on him as a loser, an embarrassement, a (whisper it) disappointment to such women who pass out near him long enough for a guilty frot. He is more than this! He must be known as a keeper of the truth!

    Not in an overt way, or course, giving away all of the astounding secrets he is privy to would be cheap, gaudy, showing off. Much better to allude to a deeper knowledge but always shift, dissemble, never give too much away as such knowledge should not be cast into the open so carelessly. And so he waits, the guardian of these truths, seeking to enlighten but not reveal, like an absolute twat.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Khanivor 29 May 2012 19:39:43 40,360 posts
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    @darkmorgado - how does the sand taste down there?
  • spamdangled 29 May 2012 19:41:31 27,269 posts
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    @Khanivor

    I think the thin air from being up on your high horse is affecting your thinking.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • LeoliansBro 29 May 2012 19:43:49 43,170 posts
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    Khani wants the UK to be evil because he rejected all that shit years ago in favour of being a bearded canoe maker, currently unemployed.

    Mong needs to UK to be good because he can't look after himself.

    The end.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Khanivor 29 May 2012 19:48:22 40,360 posts
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    If you honestly think that you're as free to about as you please as 20 years ago then I don't think my brain is the one suffering oxygen starvation.

    But by all means, welcome in a tightening of the screw on groups of people you don't like. History is very quiet on that topic.
  • spamdangled 29 May 2012 19:49:21 27,269 posts
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    There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that the Inquiry will end up restricting the freedom of the press. In fact, all the evidence goes against it.

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  • Khanivor 29 May 2012 19:50:41 40,360 posts
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    So you're saying that other than amusing the peanut gallery it'll all have been a waste of time?

    Edited by Khanivor at 19:51:38 29-05-2012
  • spamdangled 29 May 2012 19:52:33 27,269 posts
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    No, I'm saying that we will likely end up with a version of a PCC that is actually fit for purpose, proper penalties for newspapers that knowingly post false stories, more robust enforcement of the existing law, and clearer guidelines about what is and is not acceptable behaviour.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • Khanivor 29 May 2012 20:47:44 40,360 posts
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    So a whole bunch of possible restrictions and that won't restrict the freedom of the press?

    Details will matter, obviously. Yet I wonder how you could, say, prevent a paper from printing what they knew to be a fictional story as news. Not unless, say, the authorities have the right to monitor all communications within news organisations.

    Perhaps fixing legal aid so you don't have to be very wealthy to take a li[/ia]ble case all the way through court. It's mad how a country some very generous laws on punishing people who make false claims in the press has such a problem with false claims being made in the press. It's almost as if the issue is more complex than can be fixed by adding pages to the law books.

    Edited by Khanivor at 20:48:58 29-05-2012
  • spamdangled 29 May 2012 20:53:54 27,269 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    So a whole bunch of possible restrictions and that won't restrict the freedom of the press?
    We already have a PCC, it just doesn't do what it's meant to as it's basically just a boy's own club. We already have laws stating what these people were doing was illegal, they just weren't enforced properly due to an improper relationship between the press, police and the politicians. So greater enforcement of the law will solve that (you yourself keep banging on about how there are already laws against what was going on).

    And you could easily find out if a paper knew a story was bollocks - ask them to provide the evidence backing up the story, which is what good journalists already do in their articles.


    Perhaps fixing legal aid so you don't have to be very wealthy to take a li[/ia]ble case all the way through court.
    This is what fixing the PCC should solve.

    It's mad how a country some very generous laws on punishing people who make false claims in the press has such a problem with false claims being made in the press.
    See my point (and the point you have actually made several times yourself) about existing laws not being enforced by police and being ignored by the press. Which has led to so many civil cases.

    It's almost as if the issue is more complex than can be fixed by adding pages to the law books.
    You again demonstrate how you clearly haven't been following the whole thing very closely. At no point has anyone suggested that statutory legislation is the way forward. Leveson has himself admitted that he doesn't want to go down that road.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 20:56:40 29-05-2012

    Edited by darkmorgado at 20:58:41 29-05-2012

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  • Khanivor 29 May 2012 20:58:33 40,360 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    And you could easily find out if a paper knew a story was bollocks - ask them to provide the evidence backing up the story, which is what good journalists already do in their articles.
    In other words, make journalists give up their sources to confirm whether a story is true.

    darkmorgado wrote:
    This is what fixing the PCC should solve.
    Again, it'll be in the details but Leveson apparently would like people who can't afford the courts to have some separate form of redress. In other words, codifying what we already have, which is a system that protects the rich and discards everyone else. What progress.
  • Deleted user 29 May 2012 20:59:24
    They are currently doing their best to butt fuck legal aid into oblivion so no one will be able to rely on it. It is a massive issue, a fuck ton more important than anything to do with press regulation or privatising the police but because there is a retard collective that only see it as 'fat cat lawyers wanting more money' it isn't discussed.

    Sorry I have no interest in the rest of the conversation I just noticed that bit.
  • Megapocalypse 29 May 2012 21:01:18 5,309 posts
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    What it's going to mean is my journalist mates will have an excuse to get out of buying a round. :(

    Edited by Megapocalypse at 21:10:28 29-05-2012
  • Khanivor 29 May 2012 21:01:56 40,360 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    At no point has anyone suggested that statutory legislation is the way forward. Leveson has himself admitted that he doesn't want to go down that road.
    How are they going to create a new overseeing body without legislation to give them authority and power?

    "Although we are all lawyers and/or legislators we will not try to fix anything with new laws. Honest."

    Wish I had your resolute faith in the word and honour of the establishment. Such a good little Tory boy ;)
  • spamdangled 29 May 2012 21:02:13 27,269 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    And you could easily find out if a paper knew a story was bollocks - ask them to provide the evidence backing up the story, which is what good journalists already do in their articles.
    In other words, make journalists give up their sources to confirm whether a story is true.

    darkmorgado wrote:
    This is what fixing the PCC should solve.
    Again, it'll be in the details but Leveson apparently would like people who can't afford the courts to have some separate form of redress. In other words, codifying what we already have, which is a system that protects the rich and discards everyone else. What progress.
    w/regards to the source thing, that's something that's been discussed repeatedly and never has it been suggested that a journalist should be forced to disclose their source. However, you have to wonder whether or not a single source is enough justification on which to stand up a story. Most journalists who have given evidence have said no.

    And again, the form of redress was discussed as making the PCC more robust and floating various ideas about how that could be done - such as introducing tribunal-style measures to hear complaints in the open instead of having them decided behind closed doors by a bunch of people who are friends with the newspaper editors responsible for the complaint in the first place.

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  • spamdangled 29 May 2012 21:03:39 27,269 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    At no point has anyone suggested that statutory legislation is the way forward. Leveson has himself admitted that he doesn't want to go down that road.
    How are they going to create a new overseeing body without legislation to give them authority and power?

    "Although we are all lawyers and/or legislators we will not try to fix anything with new laws. Honest."

    Wish I had your resolute faith in the word and honour of the establishment. Such a good little Tory boy ;)
    Independent bodies are set up all the time without new laws being passed. Why would this be any different?

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • spamdangled 29 May 2012 21:04:13 27,269 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Such a good little Tory boy ;)
    Erm...

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  • Khanivor 29 May 2012 21:15:19 40,360 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    w/regards to the source thing, that's something that's been discussed repeatedly and never has it been suggested that a journalist should be forced to disclose their source. However, you have to wonder whether or not a single source is enough justification on which to stand up a story. Most journalists who have given evidence have said no.
    Deep Throat says hi. I guess I haven't been paying enough attention. I am interested how you could provide evidence for the validity of a story without giving access to where that story came from in the first place.

    darkmorgado wrote:
    Independent bodies are set up all the time without new laws being passed. Why would this be any different?
    I though the idea was to get away from a voluntary system. Move to one with teeth.

    darkmorgado wrote:
    Khanivor wrote:
    Such a good little Tory boy ;)
    Erm...
    Aye.
  • spamdangled 29 May 2012 21:19:24 27,269 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Independent bodies are set up all the time without new laws being passed. Why would this be any different?

    I though the idea was to get away from a voluntary system. Move to one with teeth.
    The current suggestions are through providing incentives to members so that pspers would be disadvantaged by not joining, such as tax breaks or something similar for members.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 21:19:40 29-05-2012

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  • Khanivor 29 May 2012 21:46:31 40,360 posts
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    Would that mean punishment for a transgression would be removal of these incentives? Something like a fine?
  • spamdangled 29 May 2012 21:49:26 27,269 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Would that mean punishment for a transgression would be removal of these incentives? Something like a fine?
    I don't know. I'm not Leveson and I can't predict the outcome of a report that hasn't been written yet.

    Given the amount of time given to discussing the space given to retractions/apologies compared to the space given to the original story, I wouldn't be surprised if they go down that route plus some sort of financial penalty - that would work for the wider organisations.

    Personally, to deal with specific individual journalists, I'd go down a license route, where various transgressions earn you points on your license. Too many points, and you can't practice journalism.

    But then you have to consider that in an internet age, everyone is a journalist. Everyone can have a blog and comment. And that's where you get into the thorny, well-discussed issue of the impact of the internet on print journalism and the fusing of comment and fact.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 21:52:37 29-05-2012

    Edited by darkmorgado at 21:53:46 29-05-2012

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  • Khanivor 29 May 2012 21:53:21 40,360 posts
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    But you do seem rather convinced it's all going to be rainbows and unicorns and the government will in no way use the opportunity for its own gain. Based on what the establishment has been saying.

    On the other hand, I worry about how the inquiry will be abused to further erode civil liberties. Based on what the establishment has been doing.

    I really hope you are right.
  • spamdangled 29 May 2012 21:54:41 27,269 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    But you do seem rather convinced it's all going to be rainbows and unicorns and the government will in no way use the opportunity for its own gain. Based on what the establishment has been saying.
    No, I'm just not convinced it's going to be the end of the free press.

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  • Khanivor 29 May 2012 21:58:38 40,360 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Khanivor wrote:
    But you do seem rather convinced it's all going to be rainbows and unicorns and the government will in no way use the opportunity for its own gain. Based on what the establishment has been saying.
    No, I'm just not convinced it's going to be the end of the free press.
    While being cool with the idea of journalist licences :D

    Point: I don't think it's going to be end of the free press. It is, however, my fear it is going to weaken the press' ability to do its job, (if the fancy of doing that ever happens to take them). Who stands to gain the most from that?
  • X201 30 May 2012 10:30:33 15,124 posts
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    Andy Coulson detained by police investigating allegations of perjury.

    Re:Tommy Sheridan trial in 2010


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18262740

    Edited by X201 at 10:31:00 30-05-2012
  • TheSaint 30 May 2012 10:37:55 14,199 posts
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    Does it really take seven officers to arrest a former newspaper editor? G4S would have been far more efficient.
  • lucky_jim 30 May 2012 12:02:10 5,252 posts
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    If News Corp's minions are prepared to lie in court, it's not such a stretch to imagine they'd lie to the CM&S Select Committee or the Leveson Inquiry.
  • Bremenacht 30 May 2012 15:05:03 17,600 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    No, I'm saying that we will likely end up with a version of a PCC that is actually fit for purpose, proper penalties for newspapers that knowingly post false stories, more robust enforcement of the existing law, and clearer guidelines about what is and is not acceptable behaviour.
    Heh! Dream on.

    Btw - crop-circles. Bits of wood and lengths of string and whatever else came in useful. And beer. Sorry madgod. That's not to say that the people who organised some of them might not have been aliens in disguise. I cannot disprove that, which means it might be true.
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