North Korea Page 2

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  • otto Moderator 28 May 2007 11:16:19 49,314 posts
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    Bill, I hope you're right about the lesson being learned. No doubt it will be written about for years by think tanks here and in Washington. None of the rhetoric coming from the administration points to any hint of conciliation though.

    Anyway, you're dead right to point the finger at DPRK. It's the blatant hypocrisy of the Bush position on Iraq that so offends people around the world, I think.

    say no to Eurogamer sigs

  • otto Moderator 28 May 2007 11:16:19 49,314 posts
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    obligatory onion linkage

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  • otto Moderator 28 May 2007 11:16:19 49,314 posts
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    Kim Jong Il is certifiable. However (and you know how I hate to make anti-Bush points) things were definitely moving in the right direction up until the moment when Dubya stood up and gave his absurd 'axis of evil' speech. There was engagement from South Korea, Japan and the EU, with meetings in Pyongyang becoming more and more regular, and increased food aid in return for various concessions from DPRK (return of hostages, repatriation of families, shutdown of nuclear programme, demilitarisation of border zone, etc).

    Of course, the Bush administration had long been active behind the scenes, criticising us and the Japanese for being 'too kind' to the North Koreans. Only when he stood up and accused DPRK of being a party to terrorism though did it all go pear-shaped.

    So... Chalk another one up to George W. Good move George.

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  • otto Moderator 28 May 2007 11:16:19 49,314 posts
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    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    He is the first dictator to ever have his power inherited to him.
    Papa & Baby Doc Duvalier? Anyway, there may not be many 'father to son' examples, but there are plenty of 'mentor to protegé' examples of inherited dictatorships...

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  • otto Moderator 28 May 2007 11:16:19 49,314 posts
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    Yeah, worrying isn't it. As always, it could mean nothing but a plea for attention, or it could be deeply worrying. Anyway, hello VW. :)

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  • otto Moderator 28 May 2007 11:16:19 49,314 posts
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    Ignore its existence? :)

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  • FWB 25 Feb 2008 11:29:25 44,268 posts
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    How is this going to be sorted out?
  • El_MUERkO 25 Feb 2008 11:33:00 16,975 posts
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    yeah! the onion link no work!!!
  • billythekid 9 Sep 2008 14:05:05 11,109 posts
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    Reckon he's dead?
  • StarchildHypocrethes 9 Sep 2008 14:09:06 25,624 posts
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    It'd be a crying shame if he is.
  • Lando 9 Sep 2008 14:10:57 32 posts
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    Don't worry, he'll destroy the West. We've got ta give him more time!
  • L42yB 9 Sep 2008 14:21:49 1,673 posts
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    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    He is the first dictator to ever have his power inherited to him.

    Just jumped in to point out that this is not at all true. This has happened countless times throughout history.

    :)

    Carry on...
  • glaeken 9 Sep 2008 14:24:29 11,143 posts
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    Indeed. What is the difference between a dictator and a King? As far as I can see just the name.
  • GrandTheftApu 9 Sep 2008 14:25:55 6,119 posts
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    billythekid wrote:
    Reckon he's dead?

    He's on holiday, he just forgot to set an out-of-office reply.
  • m0th3rfunk3r 9 Sep 2008 14:27:20 464 posts
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    In addition if you inserted America into that first post what would seem so different.


    for example theres probably more starving homeless people in the US than in north korea.

  • billythekid 9 Sep 2008 14:30:43 11,109 posts
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    GrandTheftApu wrote:
    billythekid wrote:
    Reckon he's dead?

    He's on holiday, he just forgot to set an out-of-office reply.

    A nice underground holiday in Switzerland do you think?
  • gang_of_bitches 9 Sep 2008 14:44:32 5,478 posts
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    Fuck. They're good at marching though.

    /see vid in BBC report.
  • Deleted user 25 November 2010 10:50:19
    Post deleted
  • Dirtbox 19 Feb 2011 17:55:54 77,712 posts
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    BUMP!

    North Korea's cinema of dreams

    Aljazeera's glimpse inside NK's film industry. Enter a huge, pristine school with only 10 pupils.

    It's thick propaganda from start to finish and utterly surreal. The only part that hasn't been rehearsed a thousand times are the power outages.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • LazyNinjaUk 19 Feb 2011 18:25:08 148 posts
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    I am utterly fascinated and slightly unnerved by North Korea.

    Its totally isolated and completely brainwashed population, governed by a mad, totally obsessed dictator makes for some really sad viewing, will take a look see at the video. :)
  • mcmothercruncher 19 Feb 2011 19:25:14 6,813 posts
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    I'm fascinated by North Korea too, a place so at odds with the world.

    Just finished an absolutely superb book on North Korea called Nothing To Envy. The stories of every day lives in NK, pre the interviewees defections.
    It's every bit as bad as you thought :/
  • Dirtbox 19 Feb 2011 19:38:15 77,712 posts
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    Can you share any examples of just how bad?

    From the outside it looks like some twisted 50s ideal that doesn't quite get it, and it looks like every inch of film that's allowed is carefully orchestrated to appear as such.

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  • mcmothercruncher 20 Feb 2011 16:58:56 6,813 posts
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    It's actually very much like 1984 in there. One of the defectors couldn't believe the similarities in the book when he read it, post defection. Despite the conditions, the regimes hold is so total that families would rarely trust even each other enough to be openly critical about things. The regime uses a three generation rule- transgressions see the person concerned, their parents and their children all punished in some way.

    The famine of the 90's was awful. Anything, including grains of rice sifted from dirt in the road, family pets and even weeds, grass and bark were eaten. People dead or dying in the street was not uncommon and the usual coping mechanism was to harden your heart and walk straight past. At one point the author talks about the 'good' dying first- those that could cheat, lie or betray a neighbour were the ones that survived.

    The propaganda that the rest of the world are worse off is believed whole heartedly by all, though cracks that formed in the last decade or so (thanks to secretly re-tuned radios and smuggled mobile phones) are spreading and the defection rate has skyrocketed as a result.

    What's so good about the book is the way it talks about life at the ground level- the life stories of 6 or so individuals and their families form the backbone of the book around which all of the other stuff is hung. Getting caught up in their story and routing for them lifted the book beyond the other stuff I've read. There are glimmers of humanity and good moments there too. A black market in food and goods from China is/was unofficially tolerated in order to relieve some of the pressure and night time is relatively free as there is absolutely no lighting away from Pyongyang. The total blackness provides cover for young couples to meet and do their thing.
    Can't recommend the book enough if you're interested in the subject matter.
  • polaris70 20 Feb 2011 17:23:33 290 posts
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    Sounds like a good book. Strange reading some of the comments on here. They don't seem to mind sending the Americans in to do a 'regime change'. Some great moral posts on here but in the real world if my son or daughter got sent to the other side of the world to kick some loon ruler out of power and came back in a coffin I would ask wtf has it got to do with us?

    It's unfortunate about NK's citizens, but change must come from within in this case. It might take 10 years or 100 years. There is no way in a million years any country will go into NK.
  • Ka-blamo 20 Feb 2011 19:00:37 7,321 posts
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    +1 to finding NK completely fascinating, I just wonder if the people there aren't as fascinated with these other strange countries around them too?
  • Dirtbox 20 Feb 2011 21:08:57 77,712 posts
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    Thanks, mcmothercruncher. I think I'll be picking that one up.

    A friend of an old housemate is North Korean, but I never got the chance to speak to him about it, nor at that time really knew there was so much to talk about.

    It sounds bleak beyond imagining.

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  • kimchibaka 20 Feb 2011 21:30:42 51 posts
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    Ka-blamo wrote:...
    I just wonder if the people there aren't as fascinated with these other strange countries around them too?

    I think they'd be pretty fascinated if they weren't brainwashed into complete submission and/or had access to any information about other countries, (beyond their own family memories of family in the south they're no longer allowed to see of course)...

  • Load_2.0 20 Feb 2011 21:33:40 19,149 posts
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    I just cant get my head around it. An entire country in complete isolation.
  • craigy Staff 20 Feb 2011 21:58:56 7,600 posts
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    *corea
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