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The Sopranos

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  • sirtacos 9 May 2009 00:16:41 6,804 posts
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    The final episode! HOLY SHIT!

    I think it's pretty obvious that Tony is dead by the end of the series. In any case, it's the best show I've ever seen on television. It's deep and layered etc. Books have been written about it, and with good reason - there's actually something to analyze! Woo[/quote]
  • warlockuk 9 May 2009 00:19:35 18,618 posts
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    Welcome to the party... we've been waiting for you for some time.

    I'm a grumpy bastard.

  • DavetheDave 9 May 2009 00:29:31 1,391 posts
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    IBTL :p
  • askew 9 May 2009 00:30:30 10,596 posts
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    Not dead.
  • Trowel 9 May 2009 00:31:32 15,035 posts
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    The analysis of the final episode, in particular the restaurant scene, is... extensive. Have a search.
  • warlockuk 9 May 2009 00:33:12 18,618 posts
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    My analysis is that they tried to be as deliberately vague as possible and set up multiple lines of confusion to encourage discussion - but there is no "answer"; they probably never bothered deciding. "Let's cop-out and fade to black! That'll piss 'em off and have 'em talking and buying DVDs for years!"

    Genius :)

    I'm a grumpy bastard.

  • dnbuk 9 May 2009 02:57:49 4,801 posts
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    Don't stop believinggggg.
  • GuiltySpark 9 May 2009 03:10:30 5,919 posts
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    Is The Sopranos any good? Never seen it before, I've heard good things though. Is it similar to any other shows?

    Get bent.

  • Trane 9 May 2009 03:18:13 3,761 posts
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    GuiltySpark wrote:
    Is The Sopranos any good? Never seen it before, I've heard good things though. Is it similar to any other shows?
    It's fanstastic, compulsive, essential viewing.

    It's right up there with The Wire and Band of Brothers as the best thing I've ever seen, be it TV or movies.
  • dnbuk 9 May 2009 03:21:01 4,801 posts
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    Sopranos = G.O.A.T
  • sirtacos 9 May 2009 07:47:02 6,804 posts
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    I think that 'closure' doesn't really apply to the Sopranos. A conventional ending would have been disappointing. I don't think it was done purely as a cynical cop-out or to get people talking. I think that, to a certain extent, the Sopranos had its own path all along and it was going to pursue it regardless of viewers' opinions.
    I'm not saying that David Chase did it solely because of artistic conviction... he obviously knew that the ending was going to be the focus of much discussion, and cement the legacy of his show. Still, I don't think he did it just to screw with us.

    As for Tony being dead... I think it makes more sense.

    I haven't read the analysis yet because I want to watch the final episode again to see if I come up with any new insights, but here's what I think so far:

    - The song playing at the end is by Journey. The band name and lyrics ("he took the midnight train going anywhere";) in this context seem to allude to death. That said, I realise that the song content could be used to argue the opposite ("it goes on and on and on and on...";)
    - The people in the diner seem sketchy (although this strikes me as a deliberate attempt to distract us from something essential)
    - The guy seemingly re-enacting the Godfather bathroom scene
    - Tony's earlier conversation with Bobby "I bet you don't even hear it coming"
  • sirtacos 9 May 2009 08:00:13 6,804 posts
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    Essentially though, I'm convinced of Tony's death because it fits with the show... or my vision of it. For me, it's the most poetic way to end Tony's story.

    During the last episode, everything seems to be back to normal to some extent: Anthony Jr is back to his old spoiled carefree moronic self, Carmella is back to her bored suburban housewife routine (building a new house again), Meadow seems to have regressed somewhat - once again playing into the make-believe world of her father where Italians are unjustly "persecuted" and are victims or "racism"...
    It's like completing a circle. No one's really learned anything. Whether Tony dies in this scenario doesn't make much of a difference since he'll spend the rest of his life with this dagger of uncertainty hanging over his head.

    Plus, I remember Tony's mum mentioning that in the end, it's all "a big nothing", which fits the ending. After all the near-death experiences, all the dreams, the metaphors, the symbolism and even Tony's personal/spiritual awakenings ("I GET IT!" he yells after taking peyote), it seems fitting for the end to be so stark.

    It makes sense that Tony would die like this (if I were to point to a culprit, I'd say it's Paulie, but I could be very wrong and I'll probably change my mind). Seeing Tony's brains splattered all over the floor wouldn't be a proper sendoff. Despite his crimes, he's still our Tony and our fate as the audience is inextricably bound to his*.
    Remember Chase punishing us all those times for sympathizing with Tony (by showing his darker sides)? Here, we finally pay the price by sharing his fate.

    *by the 6th season the viewer has to be somewhat invested in Tony's character, warts and all.
    It could also be some sort of commentary on how the American public helps create the types of environments where mobsters/depressed housewives/unfulfilled materialistic arseholes thrive. That may be taking it a bit far, I dunno.

    edit: In the end it makes no difference whether he dies, really. The blankout probably best represents that.
  • sirtacos 9 May 2009 08:09:44 6,804 posts
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    Besides, it makes sense for death to reflect life - the moral vacuosity of the world of the Sopranos is finally realised by the Big Nothing.
  • Dougs 9 May 2009 09:25:42 59,157 posts
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    What was wrong with the other thread you've already posted in?! Tch.

    Anyway, for me, he's not dead. It's about the uncertainty he will always face, never knowing whether this was "it". Always looking over his shoulder.
  • craigy Senior Developer, Gamer Network 9 May 2009 09:27:56 6,666 posts
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    Aww shit, you guys have got me mourning Tony again. :/
  • Load_2.0 9 May 2009 09:41:49 14,636 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    What was wrong with the other thread you've already posted in?! Tch.

    Anyway, for me, he's not dead. It's about the uncertainty he will always face, never knowing whether this was "it". Always looking over his shoulder.
    Exactly, even though the situation with Phil was "resolved" and it being the final, there is no happy ending and the all new threats and problems will always be there.
  • FWB 9 May 2009 10:01:54 39,100 posts
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    I thought it was a cracking end. Really well done. I also reckon Tony dies, but I like how it is somewhat ambiguous.
  • sirtacos 9 May 2009 10:17:26 6,804 posts
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    The other thread was in GNG, not TV, so I made one here specifically to discuss this episode.

    You make compelling arguments... the only thing stopping me from buying into the opposing side is my desire for the series to have ended with a bang...

    The argument against Tony's death is an excellent one. It also fits with the show as it is anticlimactic, genuine and doesn't provide anyone with an easy way out. I just don't buy it. Not yet anyway.
  • mksimith2 12 May 2009 04:06:26 6 posts
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    The best drama of television is certainly The Sopranos. With its six seasons, The sopranos became the most successful tv drama ever and It will never be forgotten. I liked every single episode of it and every episode tasted like a movie. Characters are drawn incredibly amazing. James Gandolfini is a great actor and he was amazing in The Sopranos. With characters like Tony, Christopher, Paul and others, The show was incredible. I watched not only how Tony dealt with his everyday problems but I also watched how psycologically Tony grew and this character development added really important things. Especially by the help of conversations with his doctor, I could see the way of how he thinks.
  • GuiltySpark 12 May 2009 07:06:04 5,919 posts
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    Ha, what a tool.

    Get bent.

  • Nick Staff 12 May 2009 08:23:05 618 posts
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    Brilliant - you could hardly tell that was a spambot. Oh, wait.
  • CosmicFuzz 17 Jun 2010 13:18:29 18,837 posts
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    Just finished the show. What...
  • UncleLou Moderator 17 Jun 2010 13:21:28 34,673 posts
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    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    Just finished the show. What...
    Some stuff to read, if you want. :)
  • CosmicFuzz 17 Jun 2010 13:22:23 18,837 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    Just finished the show. What...
    Some stuff to read, if you want. :)
    Excellent :) Cheers Lou, will give that a read now...
  • figgis 17 Jun 2010 13:27:34 7,368 posts
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    It's a good read.
  • Dougs 17 Jun 2010 13:38:52 59,157 posts
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    I still think it's wrong. But that was the beauty of the scene, could be interpreted a number of ways. If it was definitive, Chase would've made it obvious. IMO
  • UncleLou Moderator 17 Jun 2010 13:41:27 34,673 posts
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    Yeah. It's one possible interpretation. I actually wanted to link to another site with interpretations of the finale which I thought was better/more open, but I can't find it anymore. Hohum!
  • MrDigital 14 Jul 2010 09:28:17 1,659 posts
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    I don't get why The Sopranos only has like 2 small threads on Eurogamer, surely a programme which is considered by a lot of people to be one of the best (if not the best) TV shows of all time deserves more! I guess when it started EG and its forum was in infancy but for a large portion of its lifetime the EG forum was also alive! I'm disappointed EG :(
  • kalel 14 Jul 2010 09:29:32 76,472 posts
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    Waaa.

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