G20 Protests in London Page 3

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  • chopsen 22 Mar 2009 21:07:03 16,126 posts
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    DaisyD wrote:
    this lot there.

    "Articles by or about the Anarchist Federation, an anarchist-communist organisation in Britain affiliated to the International of Anarchist Federations which publishes the magazine Organise! "

    Out of all the things you could call an *anarchist* publication....:)
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 21:08:54
    That's almost as good as the infamous 'Amish against technology' website.
  • chopsen 22 Mar 2009 21:10:27 16,126 posts
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    disussedgenius wrote:
    Naw man, you're living the dream...

    /looks around for someone buying in

    The main problem with anarchism is that it's based around the assumption that people won't take the piss and exploit the system to their own ends. Which they will.

    You then either effectively end up with another stratification of society in to those with power and those without, or you have to somehow enforce conformism to the political system which would have similar result.
  • chopsen 22 Mar 2009 21:12:39 16,126 posts
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    And that.
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 21:14:07
    Yeah, I made the same argument to someone on my undergrad - That even if you remove the upper-middle class then whoever takes on their respective roles in society will then become upper-middle class themselves.

    He didn't seem to understand...
  • richardiox 22 Mar 2009 21:26:19 5,640 posts
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    Why all the anarchist talk anyway? G20 is not an anarchist protest. Anarchists aren't the only demonstrators who make "trouble" (aka respond to provocation). I'm sure there will be 100s of political groups represented, a couple of the smaler ones will be "anarcho-communist". In terms of the amount of people there they will represent a very small percentage.

    I remember after the first Iraq war protest in London reading in the paper (my parents Daily Mail...) about the involvement of anarchist groups and yet all I saw on the day were hundreds of thousands of people from every walk of life. But yet they chose to report on the anarchists.

    As soon as the word "anarchism" comes up the issue can get sidetracked. As evidenced in this thread really.

    Worth having another look at the list of groups protesting. Debating whether to travel down.
  • MetalDog 22 Mar 2009 21:29:11 23,740 posts
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    There's no doubt that the government would love the general perception to be that the only people who protest policy are anarchists/terrorists/unemployed wasters. Simply not true - the vast majority of the people I've marched with in the past have been ordinary citizens genuinely worried about the way things are handled.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • dnbuk 22 Mar 2009 21:29:44 4,956 posts
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    Even posh people attend those.
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 21:31:33
    Asked in last page but not clearly answered. What are the marches about?
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 21:34:29
    Can't be bothered- don't care enough. A nice wee summary would be appreciated.
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 21:35:47
    "They done fucked it all up, the bastards" seems to be the general feeling.
  • Metalfish 22 Mar 2009 21:37:11 8,834 posts
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    Mowgli, you cheeky git.

    As far as I can see it's about the level of contempt governments seem to have about their citizens and the plights of others in developing nations. Hence, "putting people first".
  • faux-C 22 Mar 2009 21:38:15 9,451 posts
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    disussedgenius wrote:
    "They done fucked it all up, the bastards" seems to be the general feeling.

    That would look good on a placard.
  • richardiox 22 Mar 2009 21:38:34 5,640 posts
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    Let's just hope they dont bring over any Italian police. G8 Protests, Genoa 2001

    Check out the night time footage. I remember reading about this at the time. Hundreds of international demonstrators were staying in a local school from where they were running various Indymedia websites.

    Italian police raided it in the early hours and basically battered all of them - went totally OTT. Only went to trial in 2007 (!) and all the top police got off with it and only about 20 officers got done.

    That's not even mentioning the beatings dished out at the actual protests.
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 21:39:58
    faux_carnation wrote:
    disussedgenius wrote:
    "They done fucked it all up, the bastards" seems to be the general feeling.

    That would look good on a placard.
    It would need a '/0\' on the back to have the full effect.
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 21:40:24
    Oh no I got that much, government are bad and all that jazz, but what do they actually want?
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 21:41:40
    To let them know, I imagine.
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 21:44:48
    There must be more to it than that surely?! I would hope there is some purpose to these demonstrations, otherwise the preconceptions are pretty justified.
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 21:45:30
    Why, Shirley?
  • speedofthepuma 22 Mar 2009 21:47:15 13,307 posts
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    His name isn't Shirley, but that isn't important right now.

    I lurk. If I've spoken to you, I'm either impassioned, or drunk.

  • Metalfish 22 Mar 2009 21:47:30 8,834 posts
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    Maybe so much is wrong that you have generalise otherwise you'd be having a different protests everyday of the year?
  • speedofthepuma 22 Mar 2009 21:49:19 13,307 posts
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    The first half of your post seems to contradict the second half.

    I lurk. If I've spoken to you, I'm either impassioned, or drunk.

  • faux-C 22 Mar 2009 21:54:08 9,451 posts
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    Read this, mowgli

    Henry David Thoreau wrote:
    The authority of government, even such as I am willing to submit to--for I will cheerfully obey those who know and can do better than I, and in many things even those who neither know nor can do so well--is still an impure one: to be strictly just, it must have the sanction and consent of the governed. It can have no pure right over my person and property but what I concede to it. The progress from an absolute to a limited monarchy, from a limited monarchy to a democracy, is a progress toward a true respect for the individual. Even the Chinese philosopher was wise enough to regard the individual as the basis of the empire. Is a democracy, such as we know it, the last improvement possible in government? Is it not possible to take a step further towards recognizing and organizing the rights of man? There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly. I please myself with imagining a State at last which can afford to be just to all men, and to treat the individual with respect as a neighbor; which even would not think it inconsistent with its own repose if a few were to live aloof from it, not meddling with it, nor embraced by it, who fulfilled all the duties of neighbors and fellow men. A State which bore this kind of fruit, and suffered it to drop off as fast as it ripened, would prepare the way for a still more perfect and glorious State, which I have also imagined, but not yet anywhere seen.
  • richardiox 22 Mar 2009 22:00:05 5,640 posts
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    The point of a demonstration? To demonstrate. For me, if i'm really indignantly angry about something I want to make it known. En masse if it's possible.

    Are you saying that unless it achieves its aim, any demonstration is in itself pointless? The anti-iraq war protests in 2003 - well over a million people on the streets of london to tell their government they really REALLY disagree with something. We still went to war but the protest still served a point.

    Would it have been pointless to challenge Nazism if we then lost WW2?
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 22:04:57
    richardiox wrote:
    The point of a demonstration? To demonstrate. For me, if i'm really indignantly angry about something I want to make it known. En masse if it's possible.

    Are you saying that unless it achieves its aim, any demonstration is in itself pointless? The anti-iraq war protests in 2003 - well over a million people on the streets of london to tell their government they really REALLY disagree with something. We still went to war but the protest still served a point.

    Would it have been pointless to challenge Nazism if we then lost WW2?
    Nope never said anything of the sort. Just saying that it helps if it has an aim.
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 22:10:14
    I'm pretty sure the government is not inept to the point of not knowing that the economy is fucked and people are pissed. So I don't think that is really an aim.
  • richardiox 22 Mar 2009 22:10:26 5,640 posts
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    It does have an aim, it's to collectively demonstrate against a variety of linked causes eg climate change, globalisation and the financial crisis (the underlying reasons for it). Not forgetting the International Union of Sex Workers of course.

    edit "I'm pretty sure the government is not inept to the point of not knowing that the economy is fucked and people are pissed. So I don't think that is really an aim."

    Good point Mowgli, no point in demonstrating against anything ever then. Cool, your trolling won the day.
  • chopsen 22 Mar 2009 22:15:27 16,126 posts
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    But then again, just protesting about lots of unrelated issues in one confusing pick and mix bag of right-on shouting and waving is not going to be that productive either.
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 22:15:45
    mowgli wrote:
    I'm pretty sure the government is not inept to the point of not knowing that the economy is fucked and people are pissed. So I don't think that is really an aim.
    No harm in making sure they know though.
  • Deleted user 22 March 2009 22:17:16
    Oh do grow up, it is not trolling. That is just petulant reactionary crap, typical of a protester as it happens. Now that is trolling! :D

    You now discuss topics such as sex workers and climate change, those are aims. There is a financial crisis right now is not :)
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