Fable 3 - Please remember spoiler tags

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  • Pirotic Moderator 11 Mar 2009 08:21:36 20,646 posts
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    Well, it seems Fable 3 has been quasi-confirmed after Jonathan Ross mentioned on his twitter that he's been asked to do some voice work for it.

    Seeing as it's early days, what should we nag the developers to include this time around (I know you are reading this guys!).

    I'd say, drop the caves. While it's nice from a designers pov to have little self contained levels - why the dark caves 95% of the time? I can hardly even see where I'm going when playing the game in a sun-lit room. More variation please!
  • Xerx3s 11 Mar 2009 08:24:15 23,944 posts
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    I'd like to have coop with my own character please (diablo 2 style). As it is right now, it's pointless. More variation in clothes, weapons, items, locations, etc. as well. I loved Fable 2 but you're through all the locations pretty quickly.
  • Quint2020 11 Mar 2009 08:25:59 3,484 posts
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    Make it a continual open world as opposed to lots of smaller enclosed regions and it's pretty damn close to perfect imo, oh and having your kids grow in to an adult would be nice, I've been playing Fable 2 for hours and hours and I've still got 7-8 year old kids but my character looks like Gandalf! (which is awesome, obviously).
  • TechnoHippy 11 Mar 2009 08:27:58 14,707 posts
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    Have more dog varieties so you can match them to your character. A mastiff for combat would be cool.

    Open world would be great.

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  • creepylizard 11 Mar 2009 08:32:10 786 posts
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    make it more like a roleplaying game and less like a bloody medieval sims....
  • seasidebaz 11 Mar 2009 08:32:59 6,126 posts
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    LESS BUGS. That is all.
  • paul_haine 11 Mar 2009 08:37:44 4,205 posts
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    Pirotic wrote:
    Well, it seems Fable 3 has been quasi-confirmed after Jonathan Ross mentioned on his twitter that he's been asked to do some voice work for it.

    Christ, I hope there's a subtitles-only option.
  • morriss 11 Mar 2009 08:39:52 70,942 posts
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    Ditch co-op. Make the story twice as long, and just generally improve the NPC interaction.

    Oh and make it so you can choose between dog skins. i.e. I want to choose a Beagle. Other's might want a Labrador etc.
  • Quint2020 11 Mar 2009 08:40:10 3,484 posts
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    He did voices in the second one as well.....
  • Derblington 11 Mar 2009 08:43:03 21,500 posts
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    I think I need them to change it up a bit. I have 2 but it largely felt like I was replaying 1, so I stopped. I just can't understand the praise for it at all.
  • Blerk Moderator 11 Mar 2009 08:55:40 48,225 posts
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    Quint2020 wrote:
    Make it a continual open world as opposed to lots of smaller enclosed regions and it's pretty damn close to perfect imo
    This. Times a billion.

    I also had trouble 'relating to' my character or my dog. He never really felt like a character at all, just a hollow avatar with no personality, and I forgot the dog was even there after a few hours. It might sound heretical, but I think he really needs to be able to speak.
  • Blerk Moderator 11 Mar 2009 08:56:08 48,225 posts
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    Your character, that is. Not the dog.
  • TechnoHippy 11 Mar 2009 09:01:31 14,707 posts
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    creepylizard wrote:
    make it more like a roleplaying game and less like a bloody medieval sims....

    I disagree with this, while I enjoy traditional RPG's, one of th ethings that makes Fable stand out is its accessibility.

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  • Deleted user 11 March 2009 09:06:55
    seasidebaz wrote:
    LESS BUGS. That is all.

    PLEASE. Also.... make the damn thing less muddy. Get rid of the unnecessary blur filter, for example. That played havoc with my eyes. Initially I thought it was pretty then the sun started going down and I thought someone had crept up behind me a smeared vaseline on my glasses.

    Gameplay wise, I don't know, I thought Fable 2 started off well but lost its way. The ending was good but didn't seem to require much participation and came far too soon. I know the idea is that you can continue and change the world, if you want to, but it'd be far better to have events happen at stages of "life" that make the entire thing more epic. More of a struggle, maybe.

    And quit having people follow you into your home if you want to make sexy.
  • BartonFink 11 Mar 2009 09:07:08 34,853 posts
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    More mission variety - there are only so many times you can rescue peeps from slavers or assassinate people. Also what quint said. As for Derbs he's just daft ;)
  • Carlo 11 Mar 2009 09:08:19 17,998 posts
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    seasidebaz wrote:
    LESS BUGS. That is all.
    ...and a fucking map of all the places.

    PSN ID: Djini

  • Lutz 11 Mar 2009 09:09:23 48,854 posts
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    First things first, Fable is all about options and choices. So make the way the game is played just the same. If the current method is thought of to be the best, maybe it's not for everyone? I cannot stress enough how much a game is made better by having options. Bioshock wouldn't allow you to alter the controls, and due to this I didn't purchase it. Just sayin'.

    For me a lot of the problem is the world you're in. "Who will you become" is all very well and good, but need a decent and believable world to "become, in".

    The Dog
    He was a fantastic idea that did nothing. Let's face it, from Fable 1 to Fable 2 he's effectivly are placement for the "circles" that surrounded many of the dig locations in Fable 1. You should be looking at,

    1: Breeds. Big guard dogs, little yappers, and everything in between. At least 6 breeds, each with a distinctive personality, and each with at least 1 special ability. Examples of special abilities could be:

    Chihuahua; pick him up . Everyone loves a cute doggy right? Good alignment, allow people to stroke said doggy in your arms, and they like you. Evil, have him nip and bite the hands that stroke... Useless in a fight though, but can "see" further, so is a good warning system.
    Golden Retreaver; Special ability is to find random loot in the bushes/long grass outside of the standard play area. He's a retreaver yeah? Pretty good in a fight.
    Alsatian: Very smart dog, sticks by your side, will find treasure more frequently. Awesome in a fight, but will only fight those who attack you first, no-one else.
    St Bernard: Carries a small casket around his neck that dispenses free liquor to boost your health. Say 3 a day. Awesome in a fight, but slower.

    And make them actually worthwhile in a fight! Allow them to be commanded; for example, attack people attacking me, attack anyone using ranged weapons, stay by my side and only attack those who stary too close etc. And an average dog should be able to pin an enemy down, and the bigger dogs should kill.

    Clothes
    More variety of what we have. So three sets of level 1, three sets of level 2 etc. Cloaks would be nice, especially if they billowed in the wind. Accessories. If clothes are going to be just for style again, armour would be welcome. Try and have secondary dyes applicable to all types. Especially hair! Dye doesn't work too well with hair ATM.

    Weapons
    Dual wielding of smaller weapons, short swords, whips, hand axes, morning star (Ball & chain), bars/clubs. Staves for wizard type characters. Knives for murders etc.
    Ranged: Slings and catapults. Could be used as child, and used for distraction when stealthy and to generaly irritate people. And to ping someones window at night to woo them with a lute from their window! (And make the lute better! #"Strum, strum" out of key? :( ). If you're limiting the weapon choices, then seriously get rid of the shite weapons. How many people use a cleaver?

    Food/Drink
    It's daft that so much food makes you fat, and running doesn't make you thin. If you eat 50 pies over 100 days you'd still be a bloater, and that's not cricket. If you don't want a fat character, you can't eat a massive chunk of food types. Running *needs* to make you thin, however little. You could have say a 1% loss of fat per x miles run, maybe the distance your character can leg it in 20 mins play time. And make it so you HAVE to eat! Get too thin and you start to die. Same for getting too fat. Chuck a stat into the system with your body fat and status... so 5% to 10% = healthy. Less than 5% = too skinny, over 10% fat. Scale accordingly... so skeletal, thin, obese, morbidly obese etc. Different stats for women and men, and maybe even bulk and height. Of course just sitting around makes you thin too. But only like 0.5% per 1 hour game time.
    Some foods are obscenly fattening though, I'd address that issue too.
    You could also add in addicition to drink... start getting too drunk too frequently and you start to become dependant on it.... Make the benefit of being drunk, or drinking, quite good though; ie people love you more as your happy and dance with your more, think you're funnier etc. Until you hit a point where you're a pisshead, and they don't want to know you, you drunken tramp. Get taken in by the monks at the temple of light, and redeem your wicked drunken ways, and cure your addiciton. Or go cold turkey...

    Disease
    Add illness! People getting ill, being bed ridden. Link in to sales; ie if a shop keeper gets stuck in bed for 3 days due to illness they may need a quick sale to get some income. Plagues could sweep towns. Pox could scar you. Death from disease too, could free up a house for a quick sale, or tragically widow you. You could get ill through disease, or bad eating etc. Illness could cost you max health on a temp basis, restored after you recover. Sever illness could even lower it permanently.
    Potion could make you better, but at times of disease prices rise. Brew your own potions. Potion mini game?

    Hunting
    When shooting an animal it shouldn't go "pop", you should be able to salvage it for meat. Pick up fruit from trees and vegs growing in ground. Careful of stealing though!

    Hotlinking
    Allow items/expressions to be hotlinked. Even if it's only 1 hotlinked to "up" on the d-pad, as up is the least used by the game.

    Button Mapping
    BIG ONE. Map different weapons to X, Y, B. Obviously at the moment melee is X, ranged is Y and magic is B. But for a person who doesn't want to use, say magic, that makes the B button utterly redundant. So instead, allow something else to be put on that button. You could have a fighter with a flaming sword on X, a huge warhammer on B, and a backup pistol on Y. Or a Wizard with 3 different "spell trees" on each button... Level 1 to 5 Inferno on B, level 1 to 5 Vortex on X, and level 1 to 3 Time and Level 4 to 5 raise dead on Y. Makes access the spells for pure Wizard types much easier. And Rangers would have long, medium and close ranged weapons all at hand. Weapons that aren't in use would still be shown on the body, but just not accessable without changing in the menu. So a Wizard could still use a stave for decorative purposes of casting spells, but couldn't whack someone on the head with it.

    Loot
    Far too much loot is money. Seriously. No-one wants the stuff (The banks just end up with it anyway. ;) ) Give us other stuff. Potions, clothes, weapons, (I think I've had 3 weapons, 1 was legendary) Unique items. The Lost Chapters had 2 top level chests in it, and both held awesome gear. They didnt' hold 50,000 gold, which BTW went on the MASSIVE pile of cash I already had.

    Junk! Sometimes the dog should dig up a bone, or some other useless stuff. Also dropped loot from bandits and similar would be nice. Even if it's sometimes junk! Junk may be junk, but it adds character and atmosphere. So allow pillaging of bodies (Bodies would need to not vanish as fast, say... 5 mins? Should be enough time) Oblivion had junk, but it didn't have enough variety. You need a big table that allows random things to be put together to form a junk item, along with a couple hundred pictures for each potential item.

    Gifts
    Have people actually use the gifts you give them. Give someone a hat and they *may* put it on. For your spouses they *will* put it on. Or you could have different degrees; some spouses might not like being told what to do! Adds character to the marriage. Same for kids, buy kids clothes for your sprog. Watch someone eat an apple. Put flowers in a vase (I always give my Mrs flowers when I come home, she could open a florist!) Speaking of marriage, it's pretty pointless ATM. You get a kid and a few random pieces of tat. Whoopy do. Wives need to give you unique stuff, some useful, some not. Kids the same, like a childs painted picture of your family and similar.

    Houses
    Display units. Put weapons in them, or jewels, or clothes etc. Hang swords on walls, things like that.
    Rental income is far too easy to abuse. I can't recall the exact figures, but it only takes something like 1 or 2 hours at standard rate to get your cash back. This needs to be a lot longer.


    Buying and selling
    First things first, before the big one below: A shop seller under normal circumstance should never buy something from you for more than what they'd sell it for. They *have* to make a profit.
    If a bowerstone seller sells goods at 100g, and an Oakfield one sells it at 120g, then you can buy from Bowerstone at 100g and sell to Oakfield at 110g. But Bowerstone will only buy at 90g. And even influencing through fear/love etc will only give you at most 99g

    Actual economy.
    Tricky one. ATM you have an economy that alters prices depending on the wealth of a town. But I'd go one step further. ATM you could walk up to the jeweller in Bowerstone and sell her 1000 diamonds. If she could actually afford that much she'd be ruling the world already, not running a small jewellry store. So set each person/stall in the game with a budget.
    Working with the jewellry lady. Let's assume she has say 10,000 capital, plus stock. You buying from her adds to this capital, you selling to her reduces it too. Every five minutes all vendors should get an income (from other sales) just like you do for rental. Or she loses a chunk, but gains stock, as she purchases. If she loses say 2,000g she gains stock to the value of 3,000g. She also needs to lose a small amount daily for living expenses. On the whole though her money would increase over time. Give her a starting capital of 10,000g, and a max ceiling of say 30,000g. If she goes over this then the expenses go up. (Maybe make her house nicer! She uses the spare capital to improve her uality of life!) Ultimatly this means that the economy is growing, and money, much like our own banks, is being created out of fresh air. Story wise justification is that the cash is coming in from the mass of the city that you can't see I guess, and from tourists etc. This would also lead to high level merchants and low level merchants. Selling Diamonds in Oakfield should be tricky... In Bowerstone, not so much. All kept behind the scenes though; you shouldn't know how much capital a merchant has or is receiving. You could also have people asking for specific items, not just merchants.. Wandering chappy needs a new coat, and will pay good money for a decent one. High class noble wants a shiny necklace. Tramp wants a beer. Etc etc. Each person to has a personal capital. Although obviously much lower thresholds, so 1000 gold for an average joe earning 5g every 5 mins or somesuch. And all of this tracked for all merchants and all people who will buy stuff. Not hard to run, very little number crunching to do for the 360, just tricky (ish) to set up and balance.

    Stock
    More than just 1 or maybe 2 items. What furniture store has 1 table and 1 chair? What vendor has just 1 sick of celery? And remove the "you've bought xxx" pop up box FFS. (Or option to remove) Put in a thing saying "how many do you want" etc.

    Blacksmith
    Add in a mini game to make weapons. Should be dependant on your blacksmith level, and be damned hard. Or harder for the better weapons. So Rusty, not too tough, Master, SOLID. Adding in Augmentation slots even harder. Don't make it a "screw up once and it's over" thing, cos that's just annoying. But if you do muck up you lose some of your progress. Obviously to stop abuse you'd still have to pay for the item, but at a heavy, heavy discount. Um... plucking random figures out of the air; if a sword was 10k to buy normally, maybe you could try to make it for about 5k. And if at the end you decide you don't want it then the Blacksmith will give you cash depending on quality. If you've screwed it, 3k, so you lose 2k. If not, but just don't want it, say 8k, you've earned 3k for your time. Scale accordingly. So you make money for your time, as does the blacksmith. Initial cash is for the quality of steel that you're about to use up. Before you decide if you want the weapon you can have a practise with it (Practise area at back of blacksmith or similar) or at least look at the stats.

    Could also add in perfection bonuses; so do a section of the mini game perfectly and gain +1 damage, or +1 range or something. (Although I'd introduce a gunsmith, as a blacksmith doesn't make guns!) These unique weapons would stick around in the blacksmiths store for sale for say 7 days, so you can change your mind. After that they're effectivly bought and wiped from the games memory.

    Could do something very similar for making your own clothes maybe?

    Money
    Personally, I'd have copper, silver and gold, and follow the UK system as it stands. 10 copper to 1 silver, 10 silver to 1 gold. Small touch, but adds authenticity. Could also be used to barter. Some people will want gold over copper. An item costing 1g, may cost you 110c...

    Rifles.

    Apart from the fact that I prefer bows, if you're gonna have them I'd alter the rifles to roughly these. Marks out of 10 are respective to each other.

    Standard Rifle - Long range, medium power, good re-load. Single shot though.
    Range = 10/10
    Damage = 5/10
    Ammo = Single shot.
    Reload time = 7/10

    Turret Rifle - Good stopping power at mid range. Poor reload time due to 3 barrels.
    Range = 6/10
    Damage = 8/10
    Ammo = All triple shot.
    Reload time = 5/10

    Clockwork Rifle - Low power offset by quick reload of single magazine with plenty of shots.

    Range = 7/10
    Damage = 2/10
    Ammo = Rusty is 5, and +1 for quality.
    Reload time = 9/10

    Blunderbus - Massive power up close, off set by bad reload time and shite range. Bonus of double barrels for high quality.

    Range = 2/10
    Damage = 10/10
    Ammo = Rusty and iron single shot. Steel and master double shot. At least 12 pellets per shot, each doing one quarter of a single turret rifle shot.
    Reload time = 4/10

    This makes them Rifle = Sniper, Turret = Assault Rifle, Clockwork Rifle = Machine Gun, Blunderbus = Shotgun.

    Pistols should be less powerful and lower range than their rifle counter parts, but faster to reload and cheaper to buy.

    Light Crossbow
    Range = 6/10
    Damage = 4/10
    Ammo = Single shot/repeater variants.
    Reload time = 8/10

    Heavy Crossbow (Improved damage and range, harder to reload)

    Range = 8/10
    Damage = 6/10
    Ammo = Single shot/repeater variants.
    Reload time = 4/10

    Misc
    When picking up an item a little flash of what it is would be better than the game "pausing" with the card flashing up. The bulk of items you pick up you know what they are already. Also, an option to NOT pick up an item would be nice!

    It may just be me, but apart from the pub I don't see people shopping. If they are, maybe they should walk away with an item, like a bunch of flowers or something, and go and put them in their home? Or walk away drinking from a bottle, or change jackets etc.

    Have families walking along together.

    Have people wear different clothes from time to time, and change hair dos.
  • Lutz 11 Mar 2009 09:11:38 48,854 posts
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    I sometimes forget I actually have a job. I need to get on with it, other wise I'll not leave this thread all day. :(
  • Deleted user 11 March 2009 09:12:43
    Summary? :p
  • Derblington 11 Mar 2009 09:14:41 21,500 posts
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    Make it complex.
  • Lutz 11 Mar 2009 09:15:39 48,854 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    Make it complex.
    Basically yeah. It's too easy with not enough options, nor enough to do.
  • Deleted user 11 March 2009 09:16:05
    Yeah, I got to the bit about illness and decided there's only so much life I need. ;)
  • BartonFink 11 Mar 2009 09:18:03 34,853 posts
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    Carlo wrote:
    seasidebaz wrote:
    LESS BUGS. That is all.
    ...and a fucking map of all the places.
    Yea the map was a bit crap (a lot crap) but the breadcrumbs really did make up for it. Best feature in any RPG I have ever played.
  • Lutz 11 Mar 2009 09:18:43 48,854 posts
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    squarejawhero wrote:
    Yeah, I got to the bit about illness and decided there's only so much life I need. ;)
    You actually do an awful lot in the game that's taken as standard anyway. I'm just adding to that.

    Where's lionbum?
  • Quint2020 11 Mar 2009 09:19:47 3,484 posts
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    Oh and a bit more storyline (perhaps a nice Mass Effect style conversation system?), the main quest was good but it really wasn't long enough, would have been nice to do more things to recruit the heroes and get to know their characters a bit more.
  • Lutz 11 Mar 2009 09:20:02 48,854 posts
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    BartonFink wrote:
    Yea the map was a bit crap (a lot crap) but the breadcrumbs really did make up for it. Best feature in any RPG I have ever played.
    Bread crumsb only tell you where to go for you quests, they don't allow you to explore. A map does. Both features should be in, and both should be on or off depending on the players wishes.
  • BartonFink 11 Mar 2009 09:21:17 34,853 posts
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    Oh totally agree Lutzie
  • Lutz 11 Mar 2009 09:22:03 48,854 posts
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    And FINISH the sodding game. You didn't finish Fable 1, and did TLC. And the Fable 2 just stops dead just when it gets interesting. It's like Halo 2. It JUST gets to the interesting bit, and credits. Bah.
  • BartonFink 11 Mar 2009 09:24:46 34,853 posts
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    Yup it was just left hanging there. From what I recall he did say it was a trilogy but I have a feeling the meat is not until the final part of the trilogy. Fucknuggets
  • Blerk Moderator 11 Mar 2009 09:25:46 48,225 posts
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    Holy crap, Lutzie! :-D
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