So this dad thing group stuff Page 2

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  • Salaman 5 Feb 2009 11:53:13 22,146 posts
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    Well yeah. Abortion was mentioned but knowing her and her "child wish" I was pretty sure she'd not want that.
    PLus, even if she decided that she doesn't want this kid now, an abortion could ruin her chances of getting pregnant in future. Now that I'm sure she's not willing to risk .. so.


    My first tought was also "fuck me. I've been had!"
    But to be honest, we were both enjoying ourselves and we both knew the risks.
    I even thought when we started sleeping with each other quite regularly that I better be damn careful with her, knowing she's keen on a baby at some point in her life & I better make sure I'm not the sucker that ends up giving her one.
    So even if she set it up with the hopes of this happening from the start, I can only blame myself for not being more careful really.
    It's a bit to easy to play the victim and consider myself "had".

    I know it's not a nice thing to secretly hope something may still go wrong over the next weeks but it's the way your mind works.
    It goes:

    Oh dear ... period is late. it'll be OK. It's just late, give it two days.
    Oh dear ... actually pregnant! DAMN damn damn!
    Hmm quite a few pregnancies go worng early on, espcially the first one. So there's still an off chance.

    If all ends up going well though, I'll still be delighted to have a kid. They're great. I love kids.
    Plus I can be a part time single guy and carry on as I do now and I'll be a part time single dad and have a little kid all to myself.
    Doesn't sound that terrible to me.

    Overall, after the initial shock, I'm quite optimistic we'll work it out.
    Like I said, she's been a friend for years, even though we were ou of touch. I can't imagine her as my life partner but I can imagine us both being sober and level headed enough to deal with this in an adult way and make the best of it together. Each with their own life and with a very important shared bit.
  • DaM 5 Feb 2009 11:54:02 16,278 posts
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    Juninho wrote:
    Must be pretty hard to get your head round. Good luck with it all.

    I knocked up a girl that I didn't want to be with back in the day and was delighted (bad choice of word but you get my gist) when she was the one who mentioned not going through with it.

    (turned out in the end that it was all a lie, she was never pregnant and actually pretended to have the abortion right down to getting me to escort her to the clinics but wait outside, but that's another story)


    Crikey, you were well shot of that one! That is seriously nasty!
  • guts 5 Feb 2009 13:43:36 1,692 posts
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    Oh dear ... period is late. it'll be OK. It's just late, give it two days.
    Oh dear ... actually pregnant! DAMN damn damn!
    Hmm quite a few pregnancies go worng early on, espcially the first one. So there's still an off chance.
    Ahem, let's not knock Salaman for this honest remark or way of thinking. Remember the thread about shaking kids...

    Anyway, congrats, it really can be a good thing being a dad and I hope your situation has a happy ending. I'm sure if it goes full term you and your lady friend seem grown up enough to be great parents.
  • otto Moderator 5 Feb 2009 17:46:26 49,322 posts
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    Yeah I totally understand how Sal feels about it. Obviously no-one would wish a miscarriage on anyone but at the same time an unwanted baby can fuck up three lives, permanently. All in all a very unenviable situation to be in. :(

    Also I think Harry's missus might be on to something. Accidents happen but, hmm, sometimes they happen on purpose!

    Anyway, sorry, that last bit is not a useful contribution to the discussion and obviously none of my business.
  • CasperCCC 11 Feb 2009 12:37:28 1,087 posts
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    So my name has been taken in vain, eh? :) I'd have replied earlier but I've been enjoying one of the benefits of this part-time fatherhood thing - the ability to scoot off to India for a week and a half. (First day back today. If it was India it would be home time. That argument isn't going to work with my boss, though.)

    It's way way too early to be offering congratulations really. But that's coming from the perspective of a man who found out after five and a half months, rather than three weeks. I totally, totally understand what you're saying about half hoping that things go wrong. I half-hoped the same - and that's with the fact that something going wrong at five or six months is absolutely horrific.

    I can joke about being able to sod off to India for a couple of weeks, but if I had the choice, I'd have done it differently - having a kid with someone who you're not seeing is really tough. Even though A is really good about things, it's inevitable that I'm not going to be able to play as big a role as I'd like. You miss out on a lot of the bad things, but all those bad things are as much part of having a baby as the good things. And every time you struggle with trying to stop her crying or - I guess later on - with her being difficult, you wonder if it's because you're not a 'proper' dad.

    On the other hand, C is absolutely, totally beautiful, and it's amazing to watch her change and grow up. And hopefully, as she gets older and can become more independent, I can play even more of a role in her life. It should get a hell of a lot easier. Like I said, I wouldn't have chosen to be in this situation, but I am in this situation, and all I can do is make the best of it. Babies are ace, and I'm so rubbish at relationships that I probably wouldn't have got my act together at any point before all my little swimmers started to need zimmer frames.

    Seeing her tonight, and after almost a fortnight I bet she's changed loads. Absolutely can't wait.

    Anyway, there's a whole load of threads that I've started. I use the board as a sounding board half the time. Just ranting into cyberspace. So there's lots of over-long posts. Might be interesting for you to take a look though. Have also done a load of research on the legal side of things - haven't needed to use any of it yet, but forewarned is forearmed - so feel free to drop me a message if you want any info on that.

    As for accidents happening - they've happened to me twice. Both times I'm pretty damn sure they were accidents. The first time it was discovered early enough for something to be done about it. The second time, legally there was still an option, but morally there was no way that either me or the mother would have considered termination.

    Contraception is only 99% effective, usually... I've had sex more than 100 times, so it's a wonder I wasn't caught out before, I guess...!

    /am not a statistician
  • Pirotic Moderator 11 Feb 2009 13:09:11 20,639 posts
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    CasperCCC wrote:
    Contraception is only 99% effective, usually... I've had sex more than 100 times, so it's a wonder I wasn't caught out before, I guess...!

    /am not a statistician

    Doesn't work like that, because it would assume she would always get pregnant without the condom. Instead the 99% means over a year, so 100 couples at it (the avg number of times) over the course of a year, one of the couples will get pregnant.
  • guts 11 Feb 2009 16:10:38 1,692 posts
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    Is that married couples or boyfriend/girlfriend couples, there's a hell of a lot of difference in the yearly average between the two!!!!
  • otto Moderator 11 Feb 2009 16:15:02 49,322 posts
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    lol @ 100 times a year, the very thought... :D
  • jonsaan 11 Feb 2009 16:17:25 26,545 posts
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    Yeah, imagine getting that little sex..

    or does that include wanks?

    ;)
  • otto Moderator 11 Feb 2009 16:20:54 49,322 posts
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    100 times a year would imply at least twice a week!

    o_O

    That's not even physically possible! At least, not when you've got a little gold ring on your finger. :(
  • Salaman 11 Feb 2009 22:29:07 22,146 posts
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    Seriously? Good thing I never married the ex gf then. =0
    2/3 times a week and I felt a bit held back.

    =sigh=

    Thanks for the post CCC. I hope you had a good holiday.

    Not much news to report here. I went to see her alst week Monday and she told me she was pregnant (and it's very early days).
    We sat about with our heads in our hands a bit, finding it hard to fathom.

    All in all, I feel quite calm about the whole thing. If I was 18 I'd freak no doubt but I'm 33. My sister had 2 kids and the ex girlfriend's brother had a little girl 2.5 years ago.
    I've seen babies grow into toddlers and the toddlers grow into little rascals from close by. I love kids. So even though this is highly unexpected, quite inconvenient and not at all with someone I would have ever chosen to have a child with, if a little baby is going to be there 8 months down the line, I'll want to be involved with it.

    Here's my evaluation of the situation.
    option 1: remove it. Not an option for her.

    option 2: pull my hands off it completely and do a runner. Not an option for me

    option 3: something sensible in between for us to try and work out.

    We both agreed there's no way we'll have and raise this kid together. We like each other as friends but neither feels they could have a relationship with the other.
    So I reckon we'll need to work at some sort of co-parenting. Something along the lines of what divorced parents do but then without all the baggage and bitterness.
    Once you're passed the first 2 years or so, I can see it working quite well really.
    Part time dad, part time single.
    Few nights a week you get to spend with your kid, few nights a week you get to go out and do stuff like a single without any ties in the world.

    Could be worse I guess.

    The only thing that worries me now is that last week I'd said I'd come by Thursday as really, we'll need some more time to let this sink in and talk about. She texted Thursday that she couldn't meet up and was busy over the weekend, so she'd see me this week or the week after.

    0_o
    I left it for a bit and after a few days I sent a mail to ask how things were as teh "radio silence" was driving me more potty than the actual situation itself.
    She said she needs a bit of time to get used to the whole thing and she'll call me.

    I've been having to restrain myself terrible to not contact her. I want to wait and see when she'd get back to me. At the same time, I'm feeling a bit uneasy as I feel left out.
    When she mailed back and said she's fine and needs a bit of time, she mentioned she's been quite busy. Doctor's appointment for blood test, looking for a daycare place to get on the waiting list.

    Especially the last one sounds to me like stuff we both should be involved in. So I'm a bit nervous about the radio silence. I'm a bit apprehensive that she's subtly starting to shut me out a bit from week 1 but I don't want to ring her up and get arsey about it either.
    I'm just sitting about waiting for a text/call/mail that she'd like to see me so I can go see her and tell her I don't appreciate being excluded like that.

    Agh.
    My my. Look at that. Bloody long post that became.
    =)
  • CasperCCC 12 Feb 2009 10:58:48 1,087 posts
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    Hm. That sounds pretty damn familiar.

    One of the advantages of finding out after 5.5 months is that I only had to spend the next three and a half months feeling shut out, left out and pretty much useless. That was hard enough. I remember thinking at the time that in a funny kind of way, it was a blessing that we discovered so late.

    Her head will be absolutely spinning at the moment. More so than yours, because she's got all those awesome hormones to deal with. My ex started off with all the 'you can go to all the midwife appts, scans, everything' good intentions, but as things started to sink in, that started to fade. Went to the first midwife appt, and the scan, and we looked at a nursery together, but other than that it was just a case of catching up every week or so. Usually pretty awkward, too.

    It's a bloody weird situation. You want to do all you can to help, but there's not really a lot you can do when it comes down to it.

    That's something you're just going to have to wear, I think. Eventually I came to the conclusion that the only thing I could do until C arrived was to do whatever I could to make A's life easier. If that meant taking a step back then that's the way it had to be.

    Easier said than done, I know. And it's like any kind of advice - you're still going to have to work out your own way of doing it. It might be that your ex wants a much more hands-on pregnancy than mine did. Still, thought it would be useful to know that I went through exactly the same feeling of dislocation that you're going through now.

    Guess we're in a fairly similar position. I was only seeing A for six weeks, broke up entirely amicably, and still kept in touch. Things are pretty difficult - we were never best mates and we're really different people - but thankfully we don't have the bitterness and baggage that goes with a 'real' relationship that's gone sour.

    My parents had that, and my mum is still bitter about it, twenty years on. And while I am sure it's better for kids to have two parents living together, I'm absolutely positive that if I'm not going to be with my daughter's mother, then it's infinitely better to be in my situation - no real history, no nasty break up.
  • otto Moderator 12 Feb 2009 11:06:12 49,322 posts
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    Hmm, fact of the matter is, the baby may be 50% yours genetically but the mother is going to have a very hard time translating that into a full 50% stake in 'the business' as it were. Even in stable married couples it can be hard for the dad to have an equal say in issues of child-rearing, so to be honest it will be tough for you in your situation.

    I do think that the easiest solution in the long run is to draw up some kind of legal document which clearly sets out each parent's rights and obligations. This doesn't have to be done in a hostile or confrontational way but it's a useful thing to get done as early as possible because you can always step back from your 'feelings' and consult 'reality'. Also (and it has to be said) one day there will be a third and possibly fourth person involved as you each begin new relationships, and there will be strong pressure from the mother to transfer your role as father to her new partner. You could find yourself being shut out and although you have legal rights it makes sense to get those rights clearly set out on paper now while things are amicable rather than to have to take it to court later, if you see what I mean.

    Sorry to be a downer, it needn't necessarily all go pear-shaped, but realistically you're entering an emotional and social minefield.
  • CasperCCC 12 Feb 2009 11:07:15 1,087 posts
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    BTW...

    Salaman wrote:
    Here's my evaluation of the situation.
    option 1: remove it. Not an option for her.

    option 2: pull my hands off it completely and do a runner. Not an option for me

    option 3: something sensible in between for us to try and work out.

    I had the exact same thought process. We found out so late that realistically, Option 1 wasn't really an option at all.

    Option 2 seemed tempting at times. And when I'm awake at four in the morning worrying about how the hell this is going to work out, it still sometimes seems tempting. But in broad daylight, it's just not an option either.

    Which leaves me with Option 3. To make the absolute best job of being a dad as I can, given the situation. There's no point wishing that things were different, because they're not, and they're not going to change.

    If I could change the situation - if A and I could magically fall in love - then I would.

    But if there was the option to magic it all away and go back to before she was conceived, I'm really not sure that I'd take it. Not now that C exists, knowing how utterly beautiful she is, and that it's only going to get better as she gets older and it gets easier for me to have an independent relationship with her.
  • Salaman 12 Feb 2009 11:38:38 22,146 posts
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    Incidently. I had an email this morning.

    She wanted to know if I'm over the first shock. She's OK but still a bit confused. Wants to meet sometime early next week.

    Oh and just to clarify. It's not my ex that's pregnant.
    I split with my Julia, my gf of 7.5 years in November. Moved out in December and then started to enjoy my new single life a bit and got unlucky there.
    So now Jesse, who I've known as a friend since years but hadn't seen in about 7-8 years is pregnant, so we'll be seeing a lot fo each other in the future.


    Some good advice though CCC. I best get used to playing "catch up" a lot over the next months.
  • CasperCCC 12 Feb 2009 12:48:46 1,087 posts
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    Salaman wrote:
    Incidently. I had an email this morning.

    She wanted to know if I'm over the first shock. She's OK but still a bit confused. Wants to meet sometime early next week.

    Oh and just to clarify. It's not my ex that's pregnant.

    Good sign that she emailed and wants to meet up.

    And yeah, when I re-read my post I realised it made it look like I thought it was your ex that was preggers.

    What I meant to say was that that although I had been going out with A, it was only a really short-run thing - so it's similar to your situation in that there's no big bad emotions or bitterness. Which can only be a good thing.

    (Funnily enough, I've also got a 'proper' ex to think about. My last long-term ex has really struggled with this whole thing. We're still close, but sometimes she finds it incredibly difficult to deal with the fact that we had a termination, and then within a year I had found out that I was due to be a dad with someone else.)

    (Jesus. I sound like a total chav, don't I, what with all this fathering of kids out of wedlock...? Honestly, I'm not. I'm totally middle class. To be honest, it's all very unfair. I didn't think this sort of thing happened to people who had been to grammar school... :)
  • CasperCCC 12 Feb 2009 12:48:56 1,087 posts
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    Double post
  • Roos-V 12 Feb 2009 12:59:09 464 posts
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    As someone who's been in the opposite kind of this situation (ex left me after 7 months of the pregnancy) all I'd say to this it to do everything you can to keep the mum to be onside - I missed the first 18 days of my boy's life because she just wouldn't speak to me and it's the biggest regret of my life.

    But bottom line - to echo Casper's sentiments, it might not be so great now but I wouldn't change Jake for the world. He's easily the best thing that's ever happened to me and I just can't wait until he's independent enough for me to be able to spend some time alone with him.

    Football matches and sledging (not at the same time!) FTW
  • DaM 12 Feb 2009 13:50:25 16,278 posts
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    Are you getting to see Jake much now Roos?
  • guts 12 Feb 2009 13:52:11 1,692 posts
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    Hey roos, just a quick thread detour, how's it all working out now? Hope all's well and contact is good etc.
    @ Salaman, being a dad is great. It looks like your situation is going to turn out ok. Fingers crossed.
  • Roos-V 12 Feb 2009 14:34:53 464 posts
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    /hijacks Sal's thread

    Situation isn't really any different tbh. Just dealing with it a bit better now. Although the last couple of weeks i've been with jake (and the ex) for more time than I was initially allowed so I can't complain.

    She still wants to get back together, but until I've been allowed to take Jake to see any of my family then that just won't happen. But she also thinks (and is pretty adamant) that she's done nothing wrong in this whole debacle. And until she can show some remorse/regret for what she's done to me there's no way I can forgive her. But now the ball's pretty much in my court as to whether we'll get back together and it's tempting. But as the other thread pretty much agrees on (and I do too) staying together for the sake of A kid is just silly. There's a long road ahead methinks.

    /unhijacks thread

    Sal,one thing I'll say for this place is it's great for getting things off your chest. Especially with guys like Casper and guts in a similar situation and folks like otto and pirotic (and everyone else) ready to listen and offer their opinion. Whenever something might seem too much I'd thoroughly recommend a long post or thread in here. It certainly helped me
  • Salaman 13 Feb 2009 09:54:20 22,146 posts
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    Aaaaah dillema. My mother is over this morning. Do I tell her that she might possibly become a grand mother again. Or just keep schtum for the next 2 months like you're supposed to do until you're quite sure it's likely to go full term.

    It'd be nice to at least tell someone but mothers can't shut up, so the whole close and extended family will know within a week.

    Actually I think I answered my own question.
  • guts 13 Feb 2009 13:45:49 1,692 posts
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    I wouldn't tell her yet, but prob before the 3 month thingy. It's only been a few weeks hasn't it. I'd wait untill at least 2 months before blurting to my family.
  • otto Moderator 13 Feb 2009 14:02:12 49,322 posts
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    Don't tell her, seriously. Eight years later and I still get regular grief for blabbing to my mum about our first. It may be your baby but it's the mother's body and if the pregnancy were to go wrong she would be the one in the spotlight.
  • pjmaybe 13 Feb 2009 14:03:13 70,666 posts
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    Bad idea, definitely don't tell her.
  • DrR0b3rts 13 Feb 2009 14:07:39 484 posts
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    Definitely wait till after 12 weeks and you are 100% sure you're going ahead with it. Vent to someone you trust though - and the internet via here of course ;)
  • DaM 13 Feb 2009 14:12:49 16,278 posts
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    I think we waited till about 4 months till we told anyone with the last one....just forgot!
  • Salaman 13 Feb 2009 14:45:50 22,146 posts
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    Hehe. So far I've only mentioned it here, which is a good enough "off my chest". Probably better than telling one RL friend actually. I have a whole panel of experienced dads here.
    =)

    When she told me she was 3 weeks pregnant, she said "we're not telling anyone, yeah?"
    This was on a Monday, she was home from work with a sick note from the doctor for "flue".

    Then as we were talking this thing over, she mentioned she told her mom (she rang me up and I was crying, so of course I told her when she asked what was up) and her sister (not sure why) and her colleague because she came by for some sort of car swap thin she had to do and she "had to" fess up that she didn't have the flue but there was another reason entirely.

    /watches the news spread
  • otto Moderator 13 Feb 2009 14:57:39 49,322 posts
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    Yeah, in this case the ladies have double standards but you're going to have to live with that!
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