Motorsport Page 684

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  • DanB24 2 Jul 2013 22:19:53 1,822 posts
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23141389
    "The FIA announced on Monday evening that it would change the rules to allow the tyre specification to change within the season without the unanimous approval of the teams."
    No veto now.
  • Psychotext 2 Jul 2013 22:48:24 53,917 posts
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    FIA has taken away the veto so thankfully they can't.

    Edit... and that'll teach me for not going to the new page before posting.

    Edited by Psychotext at 22:59:31 02-07-2013
  • DanB24 2 Jul 2013 22:58:02 1,822 posts
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    Reading that Pirelli report again and giving it some more thought it sounds to me that most of the blame really should actually be on the teams themselves for trying to be too clever with the tyres.

    Edited by DanB24 at 23:00:13 02-07-2013
  • captainlk 3 Jul 2013 00:05:36 33 posts
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    @DanB24 ah thanks, didn't realise the veto is gone. Good move FIA.
  • mal 3 Jul 2013 01:17:32 22,414 posts
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    Pirelli said:
    So swapping the tyres round has an effect on how they work in certain conditions. In particular, the external part is designed to cope with the very high loads that are generated while cornering at a circuit as demanding as Silverstone, with its rapid left-hand bends and some kerbs that are particularly aggressive.
    But they're not swapping them such that the inside becomes the outside and vice versa. Granted, Pirelli might have designed one to be stronger than the other, but if they did that and then *didn't* tell the teams not to swap them, then they're entirely at fault (so I doubt Pirelli made the two tyres symmetrically different).

    The thing that changes when you take a left wheel and stick it on right is the direction of rotation (not the order of the sidewalls). I could imagine this could have some impact on the delamination problem, but that's not what Pirelli are saying. They're somehow trying to imply the swapping is part of this problem.

    Fucking politics.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • dsmx 3 Jul 2013 01:44:02 7,583 posts
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    I think pirelli are actually implying the lack of proper testing of the tyres was the problem, these car set ups could of been accounted for if pirelli had of been allowed to test the tires thoroughly. But no they are being asked to create a strong tire, that degrades quickly but capable of keeping integrity when corner a 4-6 g's and speeds of 200mph.

    I'm impressed they managed it despite the insane and dangerous limitations put on them.

    "If we hit that bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a a house of cards, checkmate." Zapp Brannigan

  • TheSaint 3 Jul 2013 16:01:20 14,269 posts
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    Silverstone are selling tickets to the testing in case anyone is interested:

    http://www.silverstone.co.uk/events/f1-young-drivers-test/
  • spindizzy 3 Jul 2013 16:53:19 6,434 posts
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    mal wrote:
    Pirelli said:
    So swapping the tyres round has an effect on how they work in certain conditions. In particular, the external part is designed to cope with the very high loads that are generated while cornering at a circuit as demanding as Silverstone, with its rapid left-hand bends and some kerbs that are particularly aggressive.
    But they're not swapping them such that the inside becomes the outside and vice versa. Granted, Pirelli might have designed one to be stronger than the other, but if they did that and then *didn't* tell the teams not to swap them, then they're entirely at fault (so I doubt Pirelli made the two tyres symmetrically different).

    The thing that changes when you take a left wheel and stick it on right is the direction of rotation (not the order of the sidewalls). I could imagine this could have some impact on the delamination problem, but that's not what Pirelli are saying. They're somehow trying to imply the swapping is part of this problem.
    They could be mounted on the rims the other way around (and they must have been, for pirellis report to make sense). I guess Pirelli provide the tyres, not the complete wheel.
  • DanB24 3 Jul 2013 17:10:23 1,822 posts
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    As usual Sniff sum it up perfectly!
    http://sniffpetrol.com/2013/07/03/that-pirelli-statement-in-full/ :lol:
  • altitude2k 3 Jul 2013 18:17:35 4,010 posts
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    Yeah saw that earlier. Love it!
  • superdelphinus 3 Jul 2013 18:52:50 8,038 posts
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    Post deleted
  • DanB24 4 Jul 2013 17:39:31 1,822 posts
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    Hmm thread somewhat broken?

    Ah German GP this weekend then.

    Should be interesting to see how the new old fixed broken tyres effect the status quo.

    Edited by DanB24 at 17:41:24 04-07-2013
  • X201 4 Jul 2013 22:19:54 15,228 posts
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    Formula 1 drivers have threatened to boycott Sunday's German Grand Prix if there is a repeat of the tyre failures experienced at Silverstone.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23190671
  • Psychotext 4 Jul 2013 23:26:59 53,917 posts
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    Yes... and guess who is up at 5am for a flight to Germany tomorrow.

    :(

    /crosses fingers for reliable tyres
  • mal 4 Jul 2013 23:30:25 22,414 posts
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    spindizzy wrote:

    They could be mounted on the rims the other way around (and they must have been, for pirellis report to make sense). I guess Pirelli provide the tyres, not the complete wheel.
    That's what I'm saying. The only way they could do it so the report makes sense would be to transpose them wholly between the tyres as mounted on the car, but then the lettering would be on the inside, and that clearly isn't the case.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • dsmx 5 Jul 2013 00:31:19 7,583 posts
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    Even if you mount the tires on the wrong side of the car the inside of the tire still remains facing the car I really can't see why mounting it on the wrong side of the car would affect the tires durability unless pirrelli are putting a "grain" into the tire itself that only works when the tire is turning in 1 direction.

    "If we hit that bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a a house of cards, checkmate." Zapp Brannigan

  • superdelphinus 5 Jul 2013 10:38:06 8,038 posts
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    Gary Anderson wrote a good explanation of why it might help - its to do with the fact that tyres are designed to rotate in a certain direction, and if you change that then the tyre will get less hot
  • TheSaint 5 Jul 2013 10:40:50 14,269 posts
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    I'm never convinced that Gary Anderson has any idea what he's talking about.
  • superdelphinus 5 Jul 2013 10:45:35 8,038 posts
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    He's crap when predicting the future, but he obviously knows his stuff technically
  • captainlk 5 Jul 2013 10:49:22 33 posts
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    There's a chap in this Reddit threat who says that it's related to direction: "When you put it on the other side of the car the direction of forces is different because the tyre is now rotating in the opposite direction and apparently this exposes a weakness in the construction."

    Sounds plausible to me.
  • superdelphinus 5 Jul 2013 10:53:13 8,038 posts
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    Yes, that's what Anderson is saying. The tyres construction means it slightly pulls apart when rotating in the 'right' direction, making it hot and degrade
  • Nth 6 Jul 2013 09:17:23 3,120 posts
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    Stats I learnt yesterday: McLaren face first season without a podium since 1980. Williams could easily finish this season without a point for first time ever. And in the 80s the journeyman Andrea DeCesaris had 3 amazing sequences of retiring from races: 16 in a row, 18 in a row and then 22 in a row!
  • Raiko101 6 Jul 2013 09:51:52 6,178 posts
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    Mclaren really shouldn't have wasted their time on building a brand new car for just one season. Especially considering they finished the season before with the fastest car. It's like they wanted to shoot themselves in the foot.

    3DS: 4210 4002 8289 (Dave)
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  • Kostabi 6 Jul 2013 09:57:14 4,903 posts
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    Isn't that how Mclaren always seem to do things though? At least in the 'modern' era they seem to revel in alternating between brilliant and shit.

    The Williams turn of form is the most baffling, it's almost like they have no idea how to build even a moderately quick car any more.
  • altitude2k 6 Jul 2013 10:01:15 4,010 posts
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    But the Renault partnership will bring back the glory days.....
  • DanB24 6 Jul 2013 10:01:24 1,822 posts
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    I think Williams has suffered from a big brain drain over the years.
    They've got a proud name but no money and sadly money buys you success, why else do you think RB tore up the Resource Restriction agreement? So they could spend their way to success and they have.
  • altitude2k 6 Jul 2013 10:15:30 4,010 posts
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    You say that, but that was only really after their first success. On their way up to their first championship win RB famously had a small, relatively cheap outfit.
  • Kostabi 6 Jul 2013 10:20:47 4,903 posts
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    The Jaguar team they inherited was always just on the cusp of making it to the big boys table on a fairly limited budget. I guess adding the direction that Newey and Horner bring makes a massive difference.
  • superdelphinus 6 Jul 2013 10:25:20 8,038 posts
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    altitude2k wrote:
    You say that, but that was only really after their first success. On their way up to their first championship win RB famously had a small, relatively cheap outfit.
    I think a lot of that was clever accounting, on reflection
  • altitude2k 6 Jul 2013 10:27:55 4,010 posts
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    Wow. Lewis does not sound happy whatsoever. Doesn't look good.
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