Motorsport Page 658

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  • Deleted user 12 May 2013 16:08:19
    Okay tyres are a joke..........BUT.......its the same for everyone.

    Give the teams harder long last rubber, then the faster teams will just blitz everyone anyway, buy going faster for longer.

    Red bull are moaning because they have a fast car which doesn't suit the rubber. Hence the pressing for change and mard lips.

    Mercedes have had this problem for 4 yrs. They just don't know how to fix it. Extremely hard on the tyres, the car is relying on the tyres to make up for its lack of aero and mechanical grip. As a result over one lap its awesome but those tyres only have so much tread. The Brawn car was the same. But the tyres were better then and Button was a lot more gentle on them than Barrichello hence the world title.

    Edited by espibara at 16:45:43 12-05-2013
  • Bremenacht 12 May 2013 16:15:05 17,777 posts
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    Alonso's car is in the clear. Happy Ferrari.
  • RobTheBuilder 12 May 2013 16:32:00 6,521 posts
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    @shamblemonkee I get your point. But watching the Trulli train every race was almost as dull as watching Schumacher waltz to victory every time.
  • Kostabi 12 May 2013 16:32:40 4,903 posts
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    The tyre management in F1 is like watching an endurance race on fast forward now. In fact, on long lasting rubber the sports cars around Spa are only around 7-8 seconds slower.

    I think the thing that annoys me the most is we have KERS, DRS and the tyres all designed to make over taking easier but it was all introduced at the same time pretty much. Ideally they should have just used KERS and increased the boost it gives and maybe add the one second behind condition for the following driver.

    Artificially crap rubber is crap. Who knew?
  • Bremenacht 12 May 2013 16:49:51 17,777 posts
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    Yeah. I certainly think KERS can go. It adds cost, weight, risk and yet adds little to the racing.
  • Psychotext 12 May 2013 17:00:40 53,929 posts
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    I've seen the arguments... but four and five stop races on hard tyres? What the fuck? It's gone too far now.
  • Bremenacht 12 May 2013 17:10:41 17,777 posts
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    Alonso in with the stewards for stopping to collect the Spanish flag.

    Miserable bastards.
  • Deleted user 12 May 2013 18:02:25
    i have to agree. WHAT A LOAD OF SHITE. I;ve given the tyres the benefit of the doubt, and enjoyed it a lot to be fair, but today was a joke.

    Yes, i follow hamilton, but the whole race wasn't enjoyable to watch. No real racing at all.

    Edited by joelstinton at 18:03:23 12-05-2013
  • beastmaster 12 May 2013 18:05:03 11,314 posts
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    I think both Spain tracks are a bit dull. The whole tyre management thing is just getting ridiculous. Should be balls-to-the-wall racing.

    The Resident Evil films. I'm one of the reasons they keep making them.

  • Nth 12 May 2013 18:08:22 3,121 posts
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    Pirelli have already said today was too much and the tyres will change in time for Silverstone.
  • Kid_Icarus 12 May 2013 18:15:03 556 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    Yeah. I certainly think KERS can go. It adds cost, weight, risk and yet adds little to the racing.
    It does provide some way of defending from DRS, so that's something. I'd prefer if they both went, neither really add to the spectacle.

    That said, there were a few great overtakes today, terrible for Mercedes though.
  • Bremenacht 12 May 2013 18:18:04 17,777 posts
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    @Psychotext Was it you who booked tickets for Germany? If so, did you book them directly via Official F1 or elsewhere? I'm thinking of treating someone. Not sure about camping or chanceing a B+B or something.
  • Psychotext 12 May 2013 18:26:22 53,929 posts
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    Book F1. I've used them before and trust them.
  • altitude2k 12 May 2013 18:26:37 4,086 posts
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    I disagree with the comments about removing KERS, although perhaps its implementation should be changed. Maybe an "all the time" deal rather than at the discretion of the driver. I feel it's important for the sport that it be at the forefront of automotive design, with efficiency benefits and new technology filtering down to road cars.
  • Psychotext 12 May 2013 18:37:55 53,929 posts
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    Except... well, it's not. Now FIA World Endurance Championship, that's another story.
  • altitude2k 12 May 2013 18:49:33 4,086 posts
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    Indeed they are. Nissan and Renault are currently at the receiving end of F1 technology from Red Bull's previous cars and Renault's engines. The technology isn't quite as blatant as the much touted "F1-style diffuser", but it is in there. Whether that's energy recuperation, battery charging efficiency or the simulated-real CFD correlation, F1 technology is most certainly filtered down to the road car arms of the works teams.
  • Psychotext 12 May 2013 19:19:24 53,929 posts
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    I'm sure some tech filters down, but that wasn't what you said, you said that it's at the forefront of automotive design... and it really isn't. It's certainly at the forefront of aero speciality though. Even the aerospace industry pales in comparison.

    What Audi, Peugeot (and now Toyota) have done in FIA WEC is far more applicable to the automotive industry. Especially with the testing of high performance hybrids, ultra high efficiency diesel engines and much larger scale KERS.

    Edited by Psychotext at 19:20:59 12-05-2013
  • mal 12 May 2013 19:20:36 22,445 posts
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    What is left for road cars to get from f1 now? When KERS came in, regenerative braking was pretty new tech, and the experience gained from f1 teams was essential, but now there are god knows how many cars on the road with this sort of tech, and with modern computers which could be uploading all their data when you plug your e-car in to charge via a public charging spot.

    Best argument for it I can see is how it allows drivers to defend against DRS, but it's a small benefit which still seems like expensive tech for the smaller teams (and still costly for RBR in a different sense). Kill KERS and give DRS a downside somehow and you'll end up in the same place but have got there much more cheaply.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • DanB24 12 May 2013 19:22:33 1,873 posts
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    I still don't see why F1 needs to be relevant. No other sport in the world is.
    How relevant is Football? Or Tennis? Or Rugby or any other sport motor or otherwise?

    Silliness. :)
  • Psychotext 12 May 2013 19:28:25 53,929 posts
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    It's an argument they've always made themselves... and it's always been pretty ridiculous.
  • superdelphinus 12 May 2013 19:32:11 8,038 posts
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    I would like drs on my road car personally, would be useful on motorways.

    Glad to see you are all starting to get on the same tyre page as me now :)
  • altitude2k 12 May 2013 19:33:19 4,086 posts
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    Hardly, it is an entirely different sport to those that you suggest. Vehicle efficiency is a very hot topic, it sells cars, and cars a big business. F1 is a huge cash-draining R&D machine that creates some of the world's most efficient automotive technology. If you've got access to works team technology, why wouldn't you take advantage of that? It doesn't do badly for company image, either.

    Having said the above, do you think that materials developed for professional sports teams and athletes doesn't find its way into the clothing we buy, for example? Or nutrition products and advice?
  • superdelphinus 12 May 2013 19:33:58 8,038 posts
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    F1 has had some weird applications elsewhere - couple in the NHS are quite interesting. I think one was an a&e crash team working with a pit stop crew to learn how they did pit stops so quickly and co-ordinated, the other was quite recent, I think a children's hospital was using ATLAS for something or other
  • Nth 12 May 2013 19:34:37 3,121 posts
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    As much as I think Will Buxton is a cock, he's written a great piece on today's race.

    http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/the-game-changer/
  • superdelphinus 12 May 2013 19:38:49 8,038 posts
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    Why do you think he's a cock?
  • Psychotext 12 May 2013 19:40:09 53,929 posts
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    I don't think four stops caught everyone off guard. Most of the field was setup for four from the minute the race started. Hell, even fatso on the Beeb said that it was the right strategy to go for if you were willing to push.

    Red Bull tried to be clever by splitting their strategies and it went horribly wrong for them.

    That said, I really hope they all start aiming for a ridiculous amount of stops... mostly because it'll force Pirelli's hand.

    Edited by Psychotext at 19:41:31 12-05-2013
  • altitude2k 12 May 2013 19:42:16 4,086 posts
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    superdelphinus wrote:
    Why do you think he's a cock?
    His pit lane reporting was the only good thing about the SPEED channel's coverage.
  • superdelphinus 12 May 2013 19:48:06 8,038 posts
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    Yeah I like will Buxton generally but I don't really agree with that article
  • superdelphinus 12 May 2013 19:57:40 8,038 posts
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    Jesus christ
  • RobTheBuilder 12 May 2013 20:02:29 6,521 posts
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    I think that article is pretty much spot on. Kimi's point about bridgestones was right too.

    Everyone knows the Pirelli tyres are short lasting and fragile, yet they continue to design cars that chew them up. Hardly the fault of Pirelli who are designing to the spec they have been given.

    I've watched almost every f1 race of the last 26 years, and this is the best and most exciting it has been since the turbo era. I would expect and hope next years rule changes will continue the move towards less air turbulence, which would help improve boh the tyre and drs situation.

    Some years have refuelling, some have one tyre, some have two, etc etc. the teams job is to make the best of the rules and settings they are given. If they are unhappy take it up with Bernie instead of bad mouthing the sport and a tyre company doing the job it was asked to.
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