Your thoughts about the new Prince of Persia? [Possible Spoilers!] Page 2

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  • Flavorable 3 Dec 2008 00:56:52 156 posts
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    Hmmm, I started Psychonauts and found myself really hating it quickly, its a somewhat nasty game to look at, I don't mean pixelation or framerate or anything like that, I just mean the colour set is a bit nasty.
  • Gorgonnae 3 Dec 2008 03:44:28 432 posts
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    King_of_Hearts wrote:


    Get Psychonauts, it'll totally change your mind. And as a Team ICO gamer you'll love it.

    Yeah, I know the game but it's not my cup of tea. But it seems like a pretty good game. A friend of mine likes it prety much.
  • jaf 3 Dec 2008 10:30:19 37 posts
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    Dunno if this was already posted...

    CrimsonFox13 asked: Beautiful art style. I’ve never played a Prince Of Persia game before, although I’ve always been interested. The beauty of this game captivated me. The game reminds me of Team ICO games. There’s a beautiful landscape with platforming involved, like the Team ICO games, and you’re traveling with a woman, just like in ICO. Did you draw any inspiration from either or both of the Team ICO games?

    Team ICO is definitely an inspiration for us and both Shadow Of The Colossus as well as ICO were games we played extensively during the development of POP. Team ICO consistently proves that videogames can be so much more then “just” a form of entertainment – they can enlighten, teach, and make us feel. I welcome any and all comparisons to the incredible development talent of that studio.

    It was very important to us, though, that our game be incredible accessible and action packed, too. We were not creating a game just for those players who like “art” in their games. We have spectacular acrobatics, incredible combat and a rich story. In many ways we consider games like Burnout influential as well in their immediate accessibility – you pick up the controller, press a few buttons, and right away spectacularly rewarding things occur. This was very important to us in the development of POP.


    http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/12/02/your-questions-answered-prince-of-persia/
  • lb003g0676 3 Dec 2008 11:34:13 2,896 posts
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    Yeah I saw that, but Ubisoft are nice about it.

    As is said, the inspiration is MUCH more apparent in Assassins Creed. Apart from the shitty ass horse, and the non climbing animations being unaffected by the geometry of the heightmap.

    Totally out of my technical depth but I know Red knows what I am on about, we discussed this already xD
  • WanderingIssun 3 Dec 2008 11:54:48 2,378 posts
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    I think I've said this once already but when I talked with an animator who worked on Assassin's Creed he said they were told that the benchmark the animation team had to take in consideration was Shadow of the Colossus. Sadly, and these were his words, they failed short at recreating the same consistency. Some animations in AC are damn good, while others could be improved a lot - a thing which I'm sure Ubisoft Montreal will see to when they show us AC2 next year.

    What I find annoying is the use of the "we took inspiration from ICO and Shadow of the Colossus" phrase in every damn interview. If it is used as praise, it's a very welcoming comment but in one of these interviews, I think with Dengeki, it was used more for marketing rather than true praise.
  • Gorgonnae 3 Dec 2008 15:38:01 432 posts
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    There's no problem if they are using it for marketing. It just promotes Team Ico more.
  • PanStre 3 Dec 2008 17:35:16 425 posts
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    You mean it gets Team Ico in the news undeservedly.

    Why yes, by that I do mean, 'getting press when they've not done anything of note other than fumbling reveals',
  • lb003g0676 3 Dec 2008 19:29:13 2,896 posts
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    I think he means, or atleast if he doesn't, I think that it feels that Ubisoft frequently feed of the success surrounding the Team ICo games, to try to sell their own.

    When really there's nothing innovative to it.

    He is nice, saying any comaprisons in a 'we are not owrthy' fashion, but THAT is not the problem, the problem is they've created a second rate game (unlike Sands of Time) and expect and even worse, fool people into associating it with superb industry defining medias.
  • Derblington 3 Dec 2008 20:01:02 22,910 posts
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    In what way do ICO or SotC define our industry, except as examples of games that are largely unkown and hardly sell?

    How can you fool someone into buying something with a comparison of a game most of todays gamers haven't heard of? You seem to have something against PoP, for whatever reason, but I'd be willing to bet it will be far more successful than either Team ICO game, for better or worse.
  • Tony600 3 Dec 2008 21:13:18 344 posts
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    The new PoP game might be great.ICO 3 will be great too(maybe).But my most wanted game is God of War 3.God of War 3 will own both in gameplay,graphics,sound,story etc. thats not fanboyism,thats a FACT!
  • aphex1982 3 Dec 2008 21:39:22 1,185 posts
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    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
  • Tony600 3 Dec 2008 21:47:51 344 posts
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    Team Ico is unknown to many peopels,because they dont give interviews,they make rare apparences at game shows etc.I saw the Uncharted 2 Teaser,a God of War 3 trailer will be shown at the 14th december.But where is Team Ico?We dont know a **** about their new game.Some informations would please the Team Ico fans.How many years they will take?When will they release their new game?2009/2010/2011?I know that God of war 3 will be released 2010,but I know thats worth the wait.But if Team Icos ps3 game is like Ico and SotC...again alone in a empty landscape with shadows creature...than its not worth to wait,sorry!
  • AgroISAlone 3 Dec 2008 22:23:15 39 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    In what way do ICO or SotC define our industry, except as examples of games that are largely unkown and hardly sell?

    How can you fool someone into buying something with a comparison of a game most of todays gamers haven't heard of? You seem to have something against PoP, for whatever reason, but I'd be willing to bet it will be far more successful than either Team ICO game, for better or worse.

    haha
    best sales for christmas, for sure.

    but...what a pity...you've heard about ico and sotc...
  • lb003g0676 3 Dec 2008 22:41:02 2,896 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    In what way do ICO or SotC define our industry, except as examples of games that are largely unkown and hardly sell?

    How can you fool someone into buying something with a comparison of a game most of todays gamers haven't heard of? You seem to have something against PoP, for whatever reason, but I'd be willing to bet it will be far more successful than either Team ICO game, for better or worse.

    I don't know how they define the industry, Ubisoft certainly seem to think so though.

    Seriously, I do know, it defines the industry in the way that games are striving to justify themselves beyond the stereotypes, and the many consider these the only games capable of doing it, and yet still being great entertainment experiences.

    And yes OFCOURSE i think you can fool someone into buying your product based on insincerity's. I think you are downright stupid if you disagree.

    Ofcourse it will sell better, and THAT is why I dislike it, because it's turned into a gimmicky copy cat series, that is important only for numbers, and it's sold based on the pretense that you are [going to be] getting more emotionally from it than you actually will.
  • Derblington 3 Dec 2008 23:59:54 22,910 posts
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    lb003g0676 wrote:
    Seriously, I do know, it defines the industry in the way that games are striving to justify themselves beyond the stereotypes, and the many consider these the only games capable of doing it, and yet still being great entertainment experiences.
    A) who says that games, as a medium, are trying to do that? Some dev's would love to have titles that break those barriers, sure, but the majority want to create entertainment, not art (not that one can't be the other). At the end of the day, games are a mass consumer product and their purpose is to provide enjoyment and make money. B) the "many" don't know about the other games - we are, by far and away, the few. That was my point for the next quote too.

    And yes OFCOURSE i think you can fool someone into buying your product based on insincerity's. I think you are downright stupid if you disagree.
    That wasn't what I said, at all.

    Ofcourse it will sell better, and THAT is why I dislike it, because it's turned into a gimmicky copy cat series, that is important only for numbers, and it's sold based on the pretense that you are [going to be] getting more emotionally from it than you actually will.
    "Gimmicky, copycat series"? Sold on the pretense of emotion? I'm all up for you having your own opinions, but seriously, that is not what it's going to sold for (purely for the fact that, unfortunately, the great unwashed are just not interested in that (and from all accounts we've already been told the story and characters are poor)), and that's not what the series is. Remember that there is as much of the original PoP, in concept, as there is immitation of/homage to other games/series here, and new ideas as well.

    To boil everything back down to ICO/SotC is naive fanboyism, and a discredit to the talented and dedicated folks that have put their own work into this 3 year project. Not to mention that ICO and SotC are, themselves, inspired by other work - to have a muse is no crime. PoP is more different than similar to ICO, even with the clear comparisons.

    Lastly, in response to your commentary on the art style being simply "cell shaded", I think that it's a little unfair. They have described the style as "illustrative" rather than cartoon (which is the original style that cell shading mimics), and it's similar to Eternal Sonata in appearance (a very beautiful game). Check out Alphonse Mucha for a very similar style (and I'd be suprised if they hadn't referenced him at some point in development). The game is not just a simple cell shaded affair by any means, it has a far more detailed and intricate art direction than games such as The Simpsons and Mad World.
  • lb003g0676 4 Dec 2008 01:23:43 2,896 posts
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    What the hell do you expect to come on here and find totally impartial people?

    Luckily though, you are spared and I am a fan but not completely ignorant. It's not just Team ICO they are copy-catting, otherwise i wouldn't have brought it up. Clearly it's hugle 'inspired' by Okami and actually looking at it, it's not Prince of persia anymore.

    Their aim was to ditch the PoP they had last generation, and not only have they done an awful job of reinventing the series, but they've also done a mediocre job of 'paying tribute' to their favourite games, Okami, Ico and Shadow of the Colossus.

    Don't come here and preach 3 years to me dude, (especially when Assassins Creed came out last year) becuase it was nothing but a financial investment for Ubisoft.

    Mirror's edge was an actual risk, and it had an even better art direction to support it.

    Bring on Assassins Creed 2, more originality, less cop out cel shading.
  • crackaasscracka 4 Dec 2008 01:54:35 11 posts
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    -cell shading is only a cop-out if the graphics are bland and lack detail, idiot.

    -of course namedropping team ico is going to increase sales... what, you people don't think niche gamers buy other games? If you can also get them blindly hooked to your product you've won

    what a horrible topic, you people aren't even making sense or arguing coherently, just kind of making statements and getting mad
  • Flavorable 4 Dec 2008 02:14:18 156 posts
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    But they don't lack detail whatsoever, I'm not going to go into name-calling, but the landscapes themselves are fantastic, some give a sense of scale and wonder I haven't seen since Okami:

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/3077962486_25f42e0e5b.jpg?v=0


    Please don't tell me that only looks good because of the cell shading, as the hallway is very unique and does lend itself to a consistent and wondrous world.
  • Mooge 4 Dec 2008 03:13:08 548 posts
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    I think the art direction for PoP is pretty damn good. It's the actual game itself that I don't like. That screenshot you posted is amazing. If I didn't know what the game was I'd be incredibly interested. It looks like it's full of possibilities.
  • CitizenInsane 4 Dec 2008 05:30:03 424 posts
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    It's a fantastic looking game and I'll definitely be picking it up.
  • Scimarad 4 Dec 2008 08:44:53 8,716 posts
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    They still haven't yet managed to beat this version:-)
  • Derblington 4 Dec 2008 11:14:47 22,910 posts
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    lb003g0676 wrote:
    Don't come here and preach 3 years to me dude, (especially when Assassins Creed came out last year) becuase it was nothing but a financial investment for Ubisoft.
    You think they made this in a year? Since AC was released?
  • lb003g0676 4 Dec 2008 13:10:42 2,896 posts
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    Yes, I really do.

    Especially since the Engine was designed for Assassins Creed. There would have been conceptual development going on, but the production has been a year.

    The creative process I would say means this game has been in total development for about 1 year and a half to 2 years. And they do have more than one team, I know, but it IS the Assassins Creed production team. Ofcourse the directors and such have changed, I believe that Ben Mattes wasn't involved that heavily if at all in Assasins Creed, it was Patrice Desilet.
  • Derblington 4 Dec 2008 14:20:46 22,910 posts
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    lb003g0676 wrote:
    Yes, I really do.
    Then I think, infact, you are quite ignorant.
  • lb003g0676 4 Dec 2008 20:23:06 2,896 posts
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    Nice way to end it, on a fallacy.

    3 years was not spent making this game. It's a little cashcow for Ubisoft, and thats why Assassins Creed 2 will innovate and improve on it's predecessor VERY little, becuase the risks will be too high with their new 'best selling' IP.

    Watch it happen.

    Anyway, having mentioned great atistic direction, Killzone 2 in the desert... Wow. But I ahte how everything is so damn colourful in the early level now, despite what the devs have said on the official forums about known visual/audio problems.

    And Mirror's Edge DLC.... I might have to get the fucking game just for that shit. I cannot believe it.
  • Derblington 4 Dec 2008 21:07:34 22,910 posts
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    lb003g0676 wrote:
    3 years was not spent making this game. It's a little cashcow for Ubisoft, and thats why Assassins Creed 2 will innovate and improve on it's predecessor VERY little, becuase the risks will be too high with their new 'best selling' IP.

    Watch it happen.
    Of course the PoP IP is a cashcow - it's an established brand and decent games, even when it goes a little emo.

    And of course AC won't reinvent the game, it would be stupid to do so. All they need to do is improve the bits that didn't work well and tweak the things that did. That's the nature of a franchise, the goal is to improve by iteration.

    I don't really see what point you are trying to make? There is no way that Ubi could've made the new PoP in a year, without having a seriously massive development team that didn't make any mistakes at any point in the project - dev just doesn't work that way, at least from my xp.
  • lb003g0676 4 Dec 2008 23:36:00 2,896 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    lb003g0676 wrote:
    3 years was not spent making this game. It's a little cashcow for Ubisoft, and thats why Assassins Creed 2 will innovate and improve on it's predecessor VERY little, becuase the risks will be too high with their new 'best selling' IP.

    Watch it happen.
    Of course the PoP IP is a cashcow - it's an established brand and decent games, even when it goes a little emo.

    The emo was fine, other than the music. the basic gameplay elements were still intact, and it was still fluid and brand new for that generation, still after Sands of Time.

    And when it's a cash cow, it means nothing has to chnage, other than a core theme, like setting or soundtrack.


    And of course AC won't reinvent the game, it would be stupid to do so. All they need to do is improve the bits that didn't work well and tweak the things that did. That's the nature of a franchise, the goal is to improve by iteration.


    Why all the fallacies man!? I never said 'reinvent'. I said improve or innovate. And It's what I expect them to do very little with. The theme will chnage as I said.

    It will still be awesome, to me, becuase it was the first real next gen game out there, if you ask me.


    I don't really see what point you are trying to make? There is no way that Ubi could've made the new PoP in a year, without having a seriously massive development team that didn't make any mistakes at any point in the project - dev just doesn't work that way, at least from my xp.


    Well let me simplify this:

    -Ubisoft needed to cater for the HD market this fall, becuase they needed to make a return.

    -They do have a massive development team

    -The game was ready or passed QA on time, so regardless of what accidents MAY have happened, its out now. And it cannot have been in development before or during Assassins Creed, becuase the engine was developed from the ground up for that game.

    -In addition assets can easily be reused, as can some programmign techniques. I can see animation in PoP that was in Assassins Creed.

    My problem here, si that the game is derivative, and does not deserve the recognition it is receiving, THAT is all. It's not an advancement, if anything it's a step back from the originals (in terms of feel and play, especially combat) and bringing back the IP is nothing but a financial tactic.
  • Flavorable 5 Dec 2008 01:44:34 156 posts
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    In no way is changing the mechanics of a game purely a financial descision, the Two Thrones was purely financial with little innovation, but this decides to take the gameplay in a different direction, if it had not based its engine on the assassins creed engine and steal a few animations, who knows who long it would have needlessly taken and how functional it would have ended up being.
  • aphex1982 5 Dec 2008 14:14:53 1,185 posts
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    Tony600 wrote:
    Team Ico is unknown to many peopels,because they dont give interviews,they make rare apparences at game shows etc.

    Am I the only one that read this?! I'm actually almost offended by this statement.

    Tony, I hate to tell you this, but you are dead wrong.

    Team ICO is relatively 'unknown', because of several things, marketing happens to be one of those, but that is a discussion for a different day.

    Don't give interviews? OMFG I know you are new, but you really need to go to tigmagazine.com, Issun has outdone himself and posted a crapload of interviews by Ueda and other team members about a copious amount of subjects. Ueda himself has been in the news a few times recently, he made an appearance on a Japanese show hosted by two animated cats, and accepted an award.
    Shadow of the Colossus was even in a movie for crying out loud.
    And the team has been praised and put in limelight by celebrities like Guillermo Del Toro, and Adam Sandler. I'm not going to even go into all the places SoTC was shown before hand, and the amount of awards it received after release. use wikipedia and do some research
    the score has been played live a few times by orchestras all over the world
    SoTC has even been called the 'Citizen Kane of video games'
    http://www.fourfatchicks.com/Reviews/Shadow_of_the_Colossus/Colossus.shtml

    They make appearances at at game shows when their games are ready to be shown. Their new game was ready when the TGS was going on, but for event planning purposes and other reasons they need to be scheduled a certain amount of time in advance , they missed the deadline by a small margin. So we will have to wait for the next show.
    Yeah we have to wait, but good things come to those who wait.

    Team ICO, while a tad elusive and secretive at times are fairly well known and well respected in the gaming industry and by gamers, they're just not mainstream.

    Don't expect to see Team ICO billboards anywhere, ever.
  • lb003g0676 5 Dec 2008 15:04:08 2,896 posts
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    Flavorable wrote:
    In no way is changing the mechanics of a game purely a financial descision, the Two Thrones was purely financial with little innovation, but this decides to take the gameplay in a different direction, if it had not based its engine on the assassins creed engine and steal a few animations, who knows who long it would have needlessly taken and how functional it would have ended up being.

    Well it shows it was purely financial.

    Thats what I am saying, the gameplay is NOT at all that different from previous PoP's it's just less streamlined, and the combat less satisfying.

    Who cares how long the game would have taken, that just proves they wanted it out in this fiscal year to make some money.
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