Star Trek Page 154

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  • simpleexplodingmaybe 16 Nov 2017 00:16:03 4,882 posts
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    drhickman1983 wrote:

    Between this and my love for the previously divisive DS9 (which was divisive, for much the same reasons as Discovery) I'm not even sure I like some of the things that Trek is supposed to represent that much...
    I used to be really down on DS9 but I think it might be the best/most consistent of them all. Not the most Trek-y or the one with the best individual episodes but in terms of good episode to bad ratio and character development across the wider series arc I'd say it was number one.
  • creepiest-lizard 16 Nov 2017 10:50:30 548 posts
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    I'd agree about DS9. Once you get over the slightly dodgy first season its great. Mostly for Odo, Quark and Garak though.
    Oh, and ducat, of course.
    This new Trek is a bit pants though. That chinless weirdo they have playing the security chief is completely miscast

    Edited by creepiest-lizard at 10:50:57 16-11-2017
  • Lukus 16 Nov 2017 13:03:26 20,910 posts
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    I thought this new Trek was pretty good overall, but you're right about that guy. All I can see and hear is a young Ray Romano. It's weird.

  • simpleexplodingmaybe 16 Nov 2017 13:30:13 4,882 posts
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    I mostly see WWE Cruiserweight Mustafa Ali
  • RGeefe 16 Nov 2017 17:40:20 104 posts
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    I mostly see Clem fucking Fandango
  • nickthegun 16 Nov 2017 18:59:40 72,030 posts
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    Clem H. Fandango
  • drhickman1983 16 Nov 2017 20:47:33 5,008 posts
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    creepiest-lizard wrote:
    I'd agree about DS9. Once you get over the slightly dodgy first season its great. Mostly for Odo, Quark and Garak though.
    Oh, and ducat, of course.
    This new Trek is a bit pants though. That chinless weirdo they have playing the security chief is completely miscast
    I don't think the first season is that bad at all; better than TNGs first season.

    The weird thing is that when DS9 is bad, it's truly awful. See most of the Ferengi episodes, for example.
  • Mr_Sleep 16 Nov 2017 21:00:43 21,384 posts
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    I have quite enjoyed the series so far, a couple of things I dont enjoy is Burnham's bunk mate who I find pretty annoying and the loss of cgi quality from the first couple of episodes. It is understandable but some of the blended effects look awful.

    I was very pleased with how little time they spent in the last episode doing pointless science explanations. I really dislike programmes and films that waste time explaining science (Interstellar, I am looking at you). They just get on with it, which I really like.

    Also, Jason Isaacs has been great.
  • DrStrangelove 17 Nov 2017 01:19:44 11,299 posts
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    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    Yeah, are people forgetting the absolute shite that was the first nine episodes of TNG? Tasha getting kidnapped by an African tribe, terrible introduction of the Ferengi and Wesley falling through a pane of glass and being sentenced to death.

    Honestly try rewatching all that nonsense and tell me Discovery is worse.
    Did just that now, in fact I had planned to make this comparison before. Yes, it is (mostly) pretty bad, but yes, Discovery is worse.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 01:23:01 17-11-2017
  • DrStrangelove 17 Nov 2017 01:39:21 11,299 posts
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    bad09 wrote:

    Speaking of Enterprise's first season, I've said it in the past but this popular notion it didn't get good until the Xindi stuff really is absolute bobbins, some great episodes in the first 2 seasons. To be honest I'm coming to the end of season 3 and getting fed up with the Xindi story arc, it really did drag on didn't it. not dominion war arc drag but coming to the end of season 3 I am thinking thank god. Looking forward to season 4, I remember some good Peter Weller episodes in that last season, such a shame it didn't last.
    There were a few great episodes in s1+2, but sadly really very few. Not enough by a long shot. I'd characterise the vast majority of s1+2 as tired, half-baked recycling of TNG/VOY episodes. I think it had few episodes that were downright disasters, but to me the main theme of those two years was one of boredom and no inspiration.

    I do think season 3 was a little better, although not necessarily because of the Xindi. I never found that arc really interesting, and as you said, most of all it took far too long. It just dragged on and on and on and I just wanted it to be over already.

    Season 4 did it pretty well with its 2-3 episode mini-arcs, I think. Some of the stuff wasn't very good, especially the first one imo with the nazis, but others were great. In particular, I can't forget how Mirror Universe Archer captures the Defiant and fires up its TOS-style bridge in glorious HD audiovisuals. True goosebumps.
  • DrStrangelove 17 Nov 2017 02:00:04 11,299 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:

    I used to be really down on DS9 but I think it might be the best/most consistent of them all. Not the most Trek-y or the one with the best individual episodes but in terms of good episode to bad ratio and character development across the wider series arc I'd say it was number one.
    DS9 had hands-down the most high quality characters. I mean, you had a handful of standout core characters in TOS and TNG, but also a lot of rather bland ones. In DS9 there were just so many great ones.

    It certainly moved away from the sometimes sterile and idealistic nature of TNG, replacing it with much more complex politics and a less rigid understanding of Starfleet law. Even religion played a major part, other than in the atheist TNG. I'd say DS9 had more heart and soul than all the other Treks.
  • thelzdking 17 Nov 2017 09:28:33 6,467 posts
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    I think the Cardassians are far more complex than any previous villian too.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 17 Nov 2017 10:11:14 4,882 posts
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    One of DS9's big strengths isn't just the core cast being such a strong one (all the series arguably have that) but its recurring ones too. Does any recurring character in any series come close to Gul Dukat?

    Even the Klingons, Martok compared to Gowron or Worf's brother
  • creepiest-lizard 17 Nov 2017 10:48:15 548 posts
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    Yeah, DS9 managed the impossible and made the Klingons not boring. Really, the only thing I like about this new show is the Klingons really.
    Voyager managed the converse by making The Borg boring somehow
  • DrStrangelove 17 Nov 2017 10:58:37 11,299 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    One of DS9's big strengths isn't just the core cast being such a strong one (all the series arguably have that) but its recurring ones too. Does any recurring character in any series come close to Gul Dukat?

    Even the Klingons, Martok compared to Gowron or Worf's brother
    Even some Ferengi! Of course there's Quark, but I always had a soft spot for Brunt. Great guy. And let's not forget the lovely Weyoun.

    As for any recurring character in any series, well there's Q obviously. Q trumps everyone, literally.
  • SuperSoupy 17 Nov 2017 11:07:37 40 posts
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    I'd love to see a new Q in the next season of Discovery.

    Flesh out the rest of the bridge crew a bit too. I wanna know what the deal is with that chick with the Seven-Of-Nine-like eyepiece.
  • Dirtbox 17 Nov 2017 11:07:44 89,372 posts
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    Q was a shit character and a result of Roddenberry's shit hacky writing, if it wasn't for De Lance's top tier performance he would be completely insufferable.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 17 Nov 2017 11:11:04 4,882 posts
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    Agree with Dirtbox, there are good Q episodes but I'm not really down with god-like beings in general
  • DrStrangelove 17 Nov 2017 11:33:24 11,299 posts
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    Yes, he's in principle a remnant of shitty TOS writing, and I hated that stuff in TOS, but De Lancie does such a fantastic job that it just works. Most notably, there's a great chemistry between him and Patrick Stewart. Q is probably Picard's only worthy adversary.
  • Razz 17 Nov 2017 13:41:07 63,325 posts
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    I read somewhere that Discovery might become the new Sliders or Quantum leap. Jumping around the multiverse trying to find a way home
  • challenge_hanukkah 17 Nov 2017 13:52:00 5,325 posts
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    So Voyager then.
  • Jyzzy-Z 17 Nov 2017 13:56:59 2,366 posts
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    Q was alright, wasn't in any show that much to be a big deal and was less of a MacGuffin than magic mushroom transportation that can take you anywhere instantly in any universe, given that particular free pass for the writers is central to the premise of the show now.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 17 Nov 2017 13:59:13 4,882 posts
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    Q did introduce the Borg so that's not a bad contribution
  • BigOrkWaaagh 17 Nov 2017 15:48:53 6,925 posts
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    Q was also a vital part of Tapestry, which is one of the best episodes ever.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 17 Nov 2017 16:05:12 4,882 posts
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    Shout out to Michael Eddington as a recurring villain who was, if anything, under used
  • DanB24 17 Nov 2017 20:52:15 5,476 posts
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    Just watched the finale! Really enjoyed it! The eye thing reminds me very much of the 2nd TOS pilot. Gary Mitchell?
  • Razz 27 Nov 2017 11:50:53 63,325 posts
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    Rewatching DS9, the Klingons are awful. Literally awful, I think Kelvin and DIS has changed my perception of what a Klingon should be. The ones I've seen so far in DS9 are stupid pantomime space Vikings.

    Imo, DIS did to TNG klingons what TNG klingons did to TOS. The asthetic is simply outdated.

    Edited by Razz at 11:52:20 27-11-2017
  • Cosmical 27 Nov 2017 11:55:24 201 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    Shout out to Michael Eddington as a recurring villain who was, if anything, under used
    Find the glaive prince corwyn!
  • ControlledChaos 27 Nov 2017 11:57:50 368 posts
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    Whats wrong with Space Vikings?
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 27 Nov 2017 12:39:07 4,882 posts
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    I watched the DS9 episode Profit & Lace last night.

    In this social media outrage age there would probably be a campaign to get DS9 cancelled due to offensiveness.

    It's probably too goofy, stupid and shit to really be offensive but my goodness is it a dumb episode.

    There are lots of TNG-onwards episodes where crew members are improbably surgically altered for undercover missions but how on earth did the Ferenghi convince Bashir to give someone a complete sex change including hormone therapy and then reverse it less than a week later just to dupe someone?

    And this has got to be the most rape centred episode in the post-Kirk era
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