Demon's Souls Page 364

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  • quadfather 14 Jan 2013 09:37:48 12,121 posts
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    @Dangerous_Dan - Cheers Dan. Some good ideas there.

    I remember second chance from my original character. Used it quite a log in ng+. But this is before I sunk 300 hours into dark souls, so I think I'm going to be a better demon's souls player this time round. He says.

    It'll be a while before I take on astrea, so second chance will probably be more useful in ng+.

    I'll definitely need some kind of magic, because I'm not playing it without evacuate - it's too much of a pain in the arse, but on the same note, it's making my character a jack of all trades that knackered the first one.

    Evacuate only needs 1 slot, so it's fairly cheap. Apart from the 20k initial cost. Warding is two slots.

    Is evacuate classed as a spell or a miracle? I can't remember!

    Hmm, looking at your notes, I think it's going to have to be dex, with a smattering of utility spells I reckon.

    Definitely need a good bow. Sticky or lava maybe

    argh, I need to plan this out :)

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dangerous_Dan 14 Jan 2013 09:58:11 2,380 posts
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    @quadfather What you really need to do is invite me along for it. ;) I have some low level chars in the european version, one is pretty much standard stuff and the other one is through with the game pretty much, at SL 16 with maxed weapons.

    At 15 strength you can wield the long composite bow which is the most powerful sticky bow for dexterity, me thinks.

    Evacuate is a miracle and uses 1 slot, right.
    Warding takes 2 slots of intelligence, I found the warding spell very helpful with the maneater boss, especially at SL 16 when your health is really on the lower levels in soul form.

    If you want to do some coop, I can level one char of mine to complement your bow char or magic char. making him more into some tank or something.
  • quadfather 14 Jan 2013 10:13:05 12,121 posts
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    @Dangerous_Dan - sounds good to me. However, I have the north american version, so not sure if that would work? I think we had this conversation before but I can't remember the outcome

    Long composite was the bow I was thinking of - it's in 4-1, isn't it? Or is that just a composite bow?

    Well, enough int to have 2 slots seems fine - the rest can go into end + vit + dex

    I think I'm only level 5 or something - just done phalanx, and 3-1 all the way to rescue frake, but didn't do idol

    Then lost all the souls anyway

    might start again to be honest, maybe choose a character with a bit more starting dex

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • quadfather 14 Jan 2013 10:14:09 12,121 posts
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    versions

    Ah, maybe I have got the european version after all. We'll just have to give it a go

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dangerous_Dan 14 Jan 2013 10:15:41 2,380 posts
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    @quadfather You've got the european version, yes it is blue and yet still european but anyway I have the north american and the european version so you won't escape my wrath as a red phantom ;) or blue helper
  • quadfather 14 Jan 2013 10:23:21 12,121 posts
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    hehe ok then

    hmmm - http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/classes

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dangerous_Dan 14 Jan 2013 10:39:54 2,380 posts
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    Heh, yeah what class to pick...
    16 faith is eventually very useful for any char because of the second chance but magic only for the magic attack spell users, not for things like warding or cloak or water veil( i'm not sure about that one).

    Why do you need the evacuate miracle? For example, for farming stones I prefer suicide - it's much quicker than respawning in the nexus and having to load up the level again.
  • quadfather 14 Jan 2013 11:54:54 12,121 posts
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    I might stick with the knight then - it's a pretty all rounded character to begin with.

    It's mainly for soul farming, not objects. But as I say, 300 hours of dark souls later, I might actually know what I'm doing this time round! Maybe I don't need it after all :)

    So this time round, maybe I only need enough for warding.

    Let me have a look at what's available, magic and miracle wise on the wiki

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • quadfather 14 Jan 2013 12:15:17 12,121 posts
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    And another thing. I did 1-1 last night without dying once, went to nexus and then went back to 1-1 and the side gate wasn't open. I wasn't playing online, so I was hoping to manipulate the world tendency by my actions. But looking on the tendency page, my character and world tendency were both 'standard'.

    I thought if you killed phalanx, got your body back, went to nexus and came back, the world tendency should be lighter? Obviously did something wrong, but I can't think what it is

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dangerous_Dan 14 Jan 2013 12:26:08 2,380 posts
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    The world tendency, copied table from the wiki.

    +3 Pure White
    +2 White
    +1 Neutral
    0 Neutral
    -1 Neutral
    -2 Neutral
    -3 Black
    -4 Pure Black

    It depends what your starting value is, usually if you make a fresh character, a new one, and are not logged into the server then you'll start at level 0. A boss kill in a world will up the level by one a death while in body form will lower it by one in that world.

    If I am not mistaken then opening the gate in 1-1 requires pure white, maybe only white, I don't know, the wiki does. Anyway, if you load up your char while being connected to the server then your worlds are going to have the world tendencies of the server which is usually quite white, maybe +1 or +2 or even +3. Then you only need to kill phalanx to open the gate or maybe phalanx and another boss (the red dragon or the huge tower knight).

    But be careful, if you quit your game and you are online with the server when you load up that char then you'll be set back again to the server tendencies. So either finish a world with all you want to do in pure white tendency in one go or don't log into the server if you load up your char again later. It will reset your worlds tendencies.

    Edited by Dangerous_Dan at 12:26:58 14-01-2013
  • quadfather 14 Jan 2013 12:59:58 12,121 posts
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    Feck, you're right. It needs pure white. Which means for me, I'll have to kill two more bosses as I'm complete pants at pvp and the black phantoms are later on in the game.

    Yeah, that's the reason why I tried to do it all offline (that and I'm crap at pvp). And yes, I need to keep an eye on online/offline.

    So it's either offline and kill lots of bosses, or go online for an online +1 / +2 boost and then do tower knight and check again

    I'm only doing this for 2 pieces of miralda's armour. Is it worth it all? :)

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • onestepfromlost 14 Jan 2013 17:26:54 2,063 posts
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    i asked this before and dont think i got an answer, i thought the servers were getting switched off for this, doesnt that make some of the online tendancy stuff impossible? or did the decide to keep the servers on? need to get my copy back off a mate.
  • quadfather 14 Jan 2013 18:21:20 12,121 posts
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    @onestepfromlost - I think they're re-releasing it on psn or something. Either way, they now say the servers are staying on indefinitely. I certainly saw my fair share of ghostly players last night

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dangerous_Dan 14 Jan 2013 18:24:16 2,380 posts
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    The servers are still online for all 3 major versions of the game. And there has been nothing announced yet when they gonna bring them down. Yes Atlus proclaimed they would turn them off but didn't do it.
  • quadfather 17 Jan 2013 11:04:53 12,121 posts
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    Can't decide on a weapon upgrade path. Will be dex, so a uchi upgraded to sharp might be good. But there's also fatal

    any ideas for a mainly dex based char?

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dangerous_Dan 17 Jan 2013 14:44:20 2,380 posts
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    Best dex bow in the game is the sticky composite long bow, it requires 15 strength (because always two handed) and 12 dexterity I think.

    I don't like the look of the uchi in combination with the shields very much, always looks a bit strange - did samurai fight with a shield, and how did that shield look like? But of course it's one of the best sharp weapons.

    I'd try the winged spear and make a sharp weapon out of it.

    The secret dagger I'd upgrade into a fatality weapon.

    I'd probably combine a catalyst or talisman and a shield in one hand and a bow and the winged spear in the other one.

    If being invaded I'd switch the bow for the fatal secret dagger, remove all rings which grant me a visible aura and put on the graverobber ring which is excellent for ambushes. Then cast the cloak spell or the hiding miracle and wait for the invader to fall for your ambush. Have a look at the stealth wiki page to see how to remain truly invisible. After a backstab I'd switch back to the spear and finish him if necessary.

    If you need blade stones, shards, chunks, pure ones then I can give them to you. It's easy to duplicate them once you have one of them. Farming them from the black skeleton took me ages, no need for you to do the same. I think that char is about SL57 or so. If you come within range (SL 44, I think) then I can drop some stuff for you - same goes for the marrow stones (fatality) but those are on my SL 18 char I think - not sure though.


    Cheers, slayer of demons.
  • quadfather 17 Jan 2013 15:13:37 12,121 posts
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    Nice one Dan, cheers. Won't be doing much if any PvP, but those weapons sound good. Used to use a scraping spear so am well used to that weapon. And yes, farming bladestones is a right pain.

    Cheers for stone offer, might take you up on that!

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • FanBoysSuck 17 Jan 2013 15:45:49 1,482 posts
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    If you want some tips on how to manipulate world tendency, give ENB's Demon Days series a watch, he shows you how to get all the events as he goes through.

    While I can't see myself going back to this, mostly due to some pretty bad level design as you get further in an cheap bosses (never mind tendency, one of the worst game systems I've ever come across and a carrying stuff capacity), I'd love to see a vita port with some of the rough edges taken off.

    For the emperor!

  • quadfather 17 Jan 2013 16:09:31 12,121 posts
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    @FanBoysSuck - I think I'm going to have an easier time this time round due to now having spent a long time playing soul's games. And I'm going to just play offline to manipulate the world tendency so will hopefully get what I'm after.

    I know what you mean about it being a bit daft, but I really miss some of demons souls levels as I thought they were fantastic

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dangerous_Dan 17 Jan 2013 16:16:44 2,380 posts
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    I like the carrying stuff capacity. Things matter, not preparing has consequences.
    What kind of bad level design?
    World tendency is maybe not perfectly implemented, the way it resets to the server standards every time you log in but other than that it's a reward for not playing in body form system (or not dying in body form). The game is rather short and it adds incentive to replay it, as does the NG+ system. And it's not a rollercoaster ride experience kind of game anyway.

    Cheap bosses? Some of them have rather big AI problems but cheap? What do you mean by that?
  • FanBoysSuck 17 Jan 2013 16:24:43 1,482 posts
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    @quadfather Yeah in all fairness 1.1 still stands out as one of the best bits of level design in either Souls game and the music in the Nexus is the same in terms of audio ;)

    It's a shame that it changes once 2 or 3 of the arch demons are dead.

    Just a though on builds : if your going magic, the crescent falchion at 4.1 is your best bet. For faith the moonlight great sword on 5.1. Not so sure about dex and strength builds. On my run through I went with strength and dex due to having no idea about how the systems worked and just kept upgrading my longsword. It made some of the bosses slightly harder than they should have been.

    /rocks back and forth at mention of flame lurker.

    For the emperor!

  • FanBoysSuck 17 Jan 2013 16:48:36 1,482 posts
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    @Dangerous_Dan Carrying capacity : fair enough that you liked it but considering upgrades required stones randomly dropping, suddenly running out of room even with an emptied inventory (2.2 specifically) was a terrible bit of design and only added to the grind. There's a reason they got rid of it.

    Bad level design : world 5 was the worst for this, the engine simply could handle how it was built with swarmed enemies hitting you through terrain/the floor while your weapon bounced off everything. The shortcuts on that stage were half arsed as well. 2.2 and 4.2 both fall under terribly designed full stop. Why it was only 1.1 that had such a brilliantly though out shortcut system I don't know.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on tendency, I really hated it and how parts of the game were cut off unless you were up for lots of arsing about.

    I wouldn't call it a short game either if your doing it properly and taking your time. i think I finished it at about 60 hours.

    Old king Allant was cheap as hell. An attack that could strip you of a level? How is that not cheap? I'd put flamelurker down as cheap as well, lots of stuff you can get stuck on while rolling around while his attacks (including punches) go through all the scenery.

    It's still a great game, I just found that the flaws really started to grate by the end.

    I'm glad pretty much all the stuff I mentioned got fixed in Dark Souls, which is pretty much sitting as my favourite game of all time at the moment.

    I didn't mean to come in to the thread with so much negativity, it just always comes flooding out whenever I think back to playing Demon's Souls. As I said I'd love a Vita port, even if all they did was take out the carry capacity I'd be all over it ;)

    For the emperor!

  • Dangerous_Dan 17 Jan 2013 17:34:07 2,380 posts
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    @FanBoysSuck It's alright, I like a well written critique, that's what a forum is about, in part, No? ;)

    When it comes to shortcuts, I also think 2-1 is very well designed, 3-1 and 3-2 as well. All in all I think they wanted to make every level different not only in terms of setting but also in terms of what's the design about.
    4-2 is about working your way down to a boss which is quite easy if you don't rush into him and try to overwhelm him - just slash and retreat and all that do repeat. So the path is quite long (but actually works out in about 3 minutes or so if you know which enemies you can dodge and which ones you have to fight. So a more dangerous route but a quite easy boss if you respect him.

    In the area 5-1 there are quite a lot of clipping and getting hit through walls issues. Yes it is flawed. It tells me that the designers didn't compromise their idea of the level. Otherwise they would have built it in a different way. Less claustrophobic in the dark with more room to maneuver around for you and your enemies.

    Yes you invest quite a bit of time in completing the game. But it's a short game content wise. It takes quite a long time because you die, because you sometimes want to farm, because you need to learn about the bosses, because it takes time to get a grip on the combat dynamics and so on. After a first run there is still much to learn about the game.

    Dark Souls "fixed" some of the stuff, yep but in quite a lot of ways I found it to be very flawed in the scaling department, something they changed quite a bit in patch 1.06. The backstab mechanic in PvP is still much better in Demon's Souls. Not that many laggy backstabs.

    And about the carry limit. You don't have to carry around the stones to upgrade at 2-1's blacksmith. They will magically be teleported from your stockpile to the smith. What you do have to have in your pockets are the boss souls for upgrading the special weapons and those souls aren't heavy at all - zero.

    Cheers.
  • Rajin 17 Jan 2013 23:40:32 621 posts
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    @FanBoysSuck

    I don't agree entirely(i'll mention some terrible part of Dark souls below), but 2-2 was indeed terrible(the whole level and the short-cut, i usually skip the level)

    World 5 has it's moments but is overall badly designed, similar to blight-town. 4.2 is very short and i don't understand why you would have a problem with it. 4.1 on the other hand is short but great in my opinion.

    World 3 and 1 are brilliant in my opinion.

    Now we have The Hollows in Dark souls which is just terrible and doesn't add anything, New Londo which is fun if you discount those bugged ghosts.

    I thought that the woods weren't that great either, New Izalith has some terrible moments as well.

    Great area's for dark souls are in my opinion: The Undead Burg and Parish, The Depths, Andor Londo, Sens fortress, Painted world.

    What makes Dark souls more enjoyable is the removal of healing items, easier upgrade system(although with less options), bonfires and more lore.

    Although some mentioned changes to Dark souls 2 scare me, i still believe a lot of progress can be made in level design and boss design.
  • Dangerous_Dan 18 Jan 2013 09:29:03 2,380 posts
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    Yesterday I cleared 2-2 and 2-3. Flamelurker is such a cool boss battle. You just have to back up and make him waste one of his attacks before healing, otherwise he's gonna slam you into the ground.

    I was marveling at the nexus archstones and then I realized that the worlds 1 and 5 are polar opposites, as are the worlds 2 and 4.

    World 1 is about order, the king, the ruler, human society, a city.
    compared to
    World 5 is about chaos, no king, the bosses are made of swamp and dirt and are a part of it, rejects of human society, swamp, nature.

    World 2 is about materialism, about mining, ores, physical, fire, chemistry, machines.
    compared to
    World 4 is about magic, magical beings, magicians, ghosts, ethereal beings, living skeletons.

    I'm not sure about the Tower of Latria though.
  • quadfather 18 Jan 2013 09:47:21 12,121 posts
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    FanBoysSuck wrote:
    @quadfather Yeah in all fairness 1.1 still stands out as one of the best bits of level design in either Souls game and the music in the Nexus is the same in terms of audio ;)

    It's a shame that it changes once 2 or 3 of the arch demons are dead.

    Just a though on builds : if your going magic, the crescent falchion at 4.1 is your best bet. For faith the moonlight great sword on 5.1. Not so sure about dex and strength builds. On my run through I went with strength and dex due to having no idea about how the systems worked and just kept upgrading my longsword. It made some of the bosses slightly harder than they should have been.

    /rocks back and forth at mention of flame lurker.
    Yes, the audio in the game is fantastic. I've never heard a more emotional score than 5.3 (in combination with what goes on there at the time).

    Even the ambient sounds are perfect - the heart beating noise in 3-2 is a sublime touch.

    I've decided against magic this time. I'm 2-handing the crescent falchion right now, but I'm going to switch to dex once I get the compound bow from 4-1, and then probably the winged spear from 1-2 and the secret dagger from wherever the hell that is. (is it 3-1?)

    I'm actually really really really looking forward to playing this time round as while i've played the game a lot, it was mainly without a wiki and I made a hell of a lot of mistakes. Plus I was pretty crap at fighting in general, especially against the bosses, so I'm well up for it this time round.

    In fact, I don't really 'get' the difficulty thing in dark souls. It's no more difficult than most games in my eyes. I mean, take ghosts and goblins. You start it - chances are you'll die in a few minutes. Then you start to learn it and you get further. If I put it on now, I'm pretty sure I can get to stage 3 without losing a life.

    And it's the same for all games i find. This is the core mechanic of a game ffs :)

    In fact, I'd go so far as to say that games like the souls games are normal difficulty, and everything else is just piss easy.

    (ok ok, Flamelurker excluded :p)

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • quadfather 18 Jan 2013 10:02:07 12,121 posts
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    Ooo, this is getting into a debate :)

    There are some bits of bad level design, agreed. But nothing too annoying I found. (Lets face it, what can compare against the mozzies in blighttown attacking you through the floor. And lets not talk frame rate etc)

    So as they both have their odds and ends, I just discount the clipping issues.

    But the level designs. I honestly can't fault demon's souls.

    Obviously imo, and how it makes me feel, but -

    Nexus - Ingenious. Love it. Amazing music and perfectly captures that 'lost, alone, despair' feeling.
    World 1 is just 100% awesome medieval
    World 2 is the steampunk equivalent imo with a healthy interest in fire
    World 3 (my favourite world) is all about despair and oozing atmosphere. I can't even place it's 'theme' as it's too fucking mental. I've never spent time gaming and had as much atmosphere lobbed at me as 3-1 / 3-2
    World 4 Is all wind, cliffs, skeletons, traps, great bosses. 3rd place for atmosphere
    World 5 Is just amazingly and annoyingly brilliant. It starts off pretty fucking evil, and just spirals into immense levels of despair, and by the time I get to 5-3, my nerves have been shredded considerably

    In fact, I wish the game had 10 worlds, with about 10 levels in each. Though that's probably too much to ask

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dangerous_Dan 18 Jan 2013 11:21:43 2,380 posts
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    World 3 is amazing and yet I don't even like to play 3-2 very much. It's the dread of having to deal with the maneaters. I haven't yet figured them out. They still can kill me if things don't work out.

    I like 1-1 and 1-2 and 1-4 but 1-3 is a bit of a letdown for me, it feels a bit empty as if they didn't have enough time to finish it.
    But it's amazing how much atmosphere and suspense of disbelief they created with actually very small levels. But it feels to be part of something bigger.

    World 3 dark, grim
    World 5 the swamp design is fantastic. You really have to look for torches to have some orientation is wather
    World 1 is dragons and medieval soldier and knights, all dark, what's not to like
    World 2 and 4 are fire and air.

    All of them are great though.
  • quadfather 18 Jan 2013 11:37:07 12,121 posts
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    @Dangerous_Dan - Have to admit, the last time I was properly playing demon's souls - I'd always cheese 1 maneater at the fog door before going through.

    I'll have to man the fuck up this time round.

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dangerous_Dan 18 Jan 2013 11:40:03 2,380 posts
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    Definitely fight them around the fire pot in the middle of the bridge. There they'll back off more and give you room to deal with one at a time.
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