This is starting to get a little scary Page 368

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  • mal 7 Feb 2013 12:36:32 22,414 posts
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    That's the point of the punishment isn't it? To show people in the future that their actions will be found out, and they will be punished.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • tincanrocket 7 Feb 2013 12:56:55 2,935 posts
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    afghan_jones wrote:
    I find it kind of unbelieveable that the narrative has gone from blaming firms to punishing individuals but there still seems a huge reluctance to actually do much about changing the underlying systems and removing the circumstances that allowed Libor etc to actually happen.

    Lots of condemning certain institutions & publicly shaming individuals into giving up bonuses but no actual plans to change things in the long term it would seem.
    I always marvel at the guys who have happily cashed their massive monthly paycheck for being Directors or Senior Managers, and then claim to have no knowledge of what the company they were Directing or Managing was doing. What is even more bizarre is when they get to keep their jobs after admitting that they can't actually perform the roles they hold. Very confusing.
  • jellyhead 7 Feb 2013 13:04:15 24,350 posts
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    It's bewildered me for years too. Mindboggling but nowt i can do about it so meh to them.

    This signature intentionally left blank.

  • Khanivor 8 Feb 2013 22:33:23 40,492 posts
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    I'm worth all that money because of the massive amounts of responsibility of my job as the ultimate head of my company.

    I'm not responsible for anything that my company or any of its employees do wrong.

    Why does everyone hate me?
  • Moot_Point 9 Feb 2013 23:15:58 3,960 posts
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    ================================================================================

    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • LeoliansBro 11 Feb 2013 15:44:12 43,644 posts
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    Drafting error.

    'Balls-out fraud' would be closer to the mark.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Bremenacht 11 Feb 2013 15:50:52 17,687 posts
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    On the plus side. Spring cleaning, perhaps.

    Edited by Bremenacht at 15:51:24 11-02-2013
  • Mr_Sleep 11 Feb 2013 15:53:29 16,921 posts
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    Moot_Point wrote:
    Very interesting that. It does seem like he has solutions but they're clearly never going to happen with the way US voting seems to go. Be interesting if Obama came out and endorsed what this economist is saying. It would also be interesting to see if this gentlemen is supported by other economists.

    I do think that someone should have just pushed a big reset button in the last worldwide recession.

    Also, what happens if the US economy goes down the toilet? Wont that also mean China goes down the toilet in the same way that in business when a retailer owes loads of money to a supplier and that retailer goes under then the supplier also tends to go bust.

    Edited by Mr_Sleep at 15:55:24 11-02-2013

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • LeoliansBro 11 Feb 2013 15:57:53 43,644 posts
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    I can't see that vid at work but I'm vey wary of armchair economists on Youtube, especially given Mr_Sleep talking about pusing 'a big reset button' (back to when? pre Adam Smith? pre capitalism? pre feudalism?).

    Anyone care to summarise for me?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Mr_Sleep 11 Feb 2013 16:02:20 16,921 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    I can't see that vid at work but I'm vey wary of armchair economists on Youtube, especially given Mr_Sleep talking about pusing 'a big reset button' (back to when? pre Adam Smith? pre capitalism? pre feudalism?).

    Anyone care to summarise for me?
    That was a tangential point, I wasn't suggesting resetting the system, I was suggesting resetting the debt and it was a glib point really.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Mr_Sleep 11 Feb 2013 16:03:54 16,921 posts
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    He's essentially saying that national debt is much more than the US is disclosing because they're hiding it in their pensions.

    Ah ha, there's a transcript:

    Link

    Edited by Mr_Sleep at 16:04:36 11-02-2013

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • LeoliansBro 11 Feb 2013 16:04:10 43,644 posts
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    No fair enough, I just had no context because I can't see the vid. What is it about?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 11 Feb 2013 16:04:28 43,644 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    He's essentially saying that national debt is much more than the US is disclosing because they're hiding it in their pensions.
    Oh.

    Spot on.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • ResidentKnievel 11 Feb 2013 16:05:39 6,172 posts
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    "machines are taking our jerbs"

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • Bremenacht 11 Feb 2013 16:07:26 17,687 posts
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    It's an interview on 'Russia Today' with this guy.

    Kotlikoff has written that the economic future is bleak for the United States without tax reform, health care reform, and Social Security reform in his book The Coming Generational Storm and other publications.
    Hmm. Not watched the vid yet though.
  • Mr_Sleep 11 Feb 2013 16:07:45 16,921 posts
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    Yeah, that did make me laugh, it made him sound like a literal luddite. It is, in some ways, a fair point as it is taking jobs away from cashiers but then presumably someone is getting a job designing/building the tools for the express checkouts.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • LeoliansBro 11 Feb 2013 16:10:00 43,644 posts
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    Pension schemes are unsustainable worldwide. Someone described them as the ultimate Ponzi scheme hidden by a convenient fiction we are all party to. And I can't really fault that :/

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • RedSparrows 11 Feb 2013 16:11:01 22,220 posts
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    Moot_Point wrote:
    You know RT is Russian government television, yeah? Just sayin'.
  • Bremenacht 11 Feb 2013 16:15:21 17,687 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Pension schemes are unsustainable worldwide. Someone described them as the ultimate Ponzi scheme hidden by a convenient fiction we are all party to. And I can't really fault that :/
    Why unsustainable?
  • Mr_Sleep 11 Feb 2013 16:15:52 16,921 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Pension schemes are unsustainable worldwide. Someone described them as the ultimate Ponzi scheme hidden by a convenient fiction we are all party to. And I can't really fault that :/
    It might well have been this fella, I'm pretty sure he mentioned Ponzi himself.

    "LK: They’re intentionally hiding this. They’ve been spending in our country six decades, running a massive Ponzi scheme, taking from young people, giving to old people, and then telling the young people, “Don’t worry, you’ll get yours when you’re old,” promising pensions, promising healthcare benefits. And you know this is happening in all countries. Russia has a pension system, but it doesn’t seem to be in better shape than ours in terms of paying for its benefits in the future."

    There has been debate here in the UK recently about how unsustainable the pension scheme is. Partly the problem seemed to be related to government bonds but ultimately the problem to me seems to come down to a large elderly populace that is going to be producing little for the economy but taking much of the money, if not through pensions then through the NHS.

    In many ways it's hard to argue that if NI has been paid for the entirety of ones working life then a state pension is to be expected but then it's going to become unrealistic. Hard to know what the solution is to this problem.

    They should never have pushed everyone to give up cigarettes, the problem would have resolved itself ;-)

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • LeoliansBro 11 Feb 2013 16:16:56 43,644 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Pension schemes are unsustainable worldwide. Someone described them as the ultimate Ponzi scheme hidden by a convenient fiction we are all party to. And I can't really fault that :/
    Why unsustainable?
    Oooh, nice one.

    Life expectancy is increasing faster than global workforce. Put more purely, pension costs are going up faster than pension contributions.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • whatfruit 11 Feb 2013 16:21:12 1,408 posts
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    Damn ruskies putting out anti US propaganda.

    You can't trust anything they say, even if it is based on a modicum of truth.

    America may be in worse shape than Greece on paper, but it still has a huge influence thanks to it's substantial military to destabilise, overthrow and destroy governments who will not give it preferential treatment when it comes to trade.

    All Greece has is a falafel.
  • Bremenacht 11 Feb 2013 16:22:21 17,687 posts
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    Easily adjustable, no? Insurance premiums adjust to anticipate payouts, can pensions not do the same? State pensions are a bit of a different matter, but even the UK one is changing - to a riskier model by some accounts.
  • LeoliansBro 11 Feb 2013 16:26:06 43,644 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    Easily adjustable, no? Insurance premiums adjust to anticipate payouts, can pensions not do the same? State pensions are a bit of a different matter, but even the UK one is changing - to a riskier model by some accounts.
    Employee pensions are too volatile because the individual schemes are too small and have too few people in them to average out the kinks. State pensions are effectively voluntarily bankrupt (or, if you're being generous, barely functional) simply because the populace tend to want to pay the absolute minimum into them.

    I don't have a solution that doesn't dispossess the elderly or punish the workforce.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Dangerous_Dan 11 Feb 2013 16:36:40 2,380 posts
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    Relax and have some syrup with your waffles.

    Edited by Dangerous_Dan at 16:37:12 11-02-2013
  • whatfruit 11 Feb 2013 16:37:32 1,408 posts
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    @LeoliansBro This is the crux of the problem and it has been the political elephant in the room for the last 10 years. No govement has properly addressed it other than raisng the pension entilement age which has been a way of putting off the problem. No one either has been brave enough to bring attention to the reality of the situation because it is politcal hari kuri to suggest scrapping the state pension to a bare minimum becuase of the large proportion of voters that the baby boomers comprise.
  • Bremenacht 11 Feb 2013 17:17:51 17,687 posts
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    Well they are introducing NEST, which is a step towards a self-sustaining government scheme, even if it's privately run.
  • LeoliansBro 11 Feb 2013 17:20:58 43,644 posts
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    Raising the retirement age is the only real way to address it - people are living longer, after all.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Megapocalypse 14 Feb 2013 10:15:14 5,373 posts
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    Megapocalypse wrote:
    Anyone have any idea how to go about trying to claim money back from a company that's gone down the pan? Out over £100 after Jessops went bust the day after they processed an order for me. The website isn't very helpful.
    Awesome! My order arrived today. :D
  • LeoliansBro 14 Feb 2013 11:40:04 43,644 posts
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    Good news Mega!

    Very interesting (if you like that sort of thing). But I need a hand with something.

    This is the paragraph I don't understand:

    [Banks like to] imply that equity is an inert asset that could have been a productive investment in the economy. Bankers also like to say that there is trade-off between safety and growth, arguing that higher capital requirements make it more costly for banks to create credit. The theory is that equity is more expensive than debt.
    All of these I take to be truths (although the first one for slightly more clever-clever reasons than the other two). But the Economist and linked articles suggest otherwise. I'd love a little help from someone better at economics in understandng this.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

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