Gary McKinnon not being extradited to US Page 4

  • Page

    of 12 First / Last

  • TechnoHippy 22 Sep 2008 11:55:47 14,714 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    Pirotic wrote:
    From what I know, they had systems within the trusted network of secure systems, which didn't even require a high level account password to get into, then via that computer you can go ahead and access from the secured computer.

    Quite how they can jail anybody for 'breaking in' to a totally unsecured system I don't know, that's like if I pick up a CD which happens to have all that benefit data on it, I'd instantly become a criminal.

    Failing to hand it in is an offense though. For this paticular case, isn't it accessing the network without authorisation the crime? Not the act of hacking? (Which could be a seperate offense).

    My books, contests, reviews and author interviews on my blog

  • Chopsen 22 Sep 2008 11:57:09 15,949 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Techno Hippy wrote:
    Failing to hand it in is an offense though. For this paticular case, isn't it accessing the network without authorisation the crime? Not the act of hacking? (Which could be a seperate offense).

    Yeah, computer misuse act 1990
  • Gradius 22 Sep 2008 11:57:17 2,305 posts
    Seen 1 day ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    I still think he should have been sentenced here in the UK. I don't like the idea of being able to commit an offence while in your own country but being sentenced under a different countries laws.

    Then again, I guess the local chavs could use a bit of Sharia justice. "He stole my hubcap, no problem, cut off his balls and then stone him to death"...

    Edit - teh spelzing
  • mrblackett 22 Sep 2008 11:59:12 856 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Pirotic wrote:
    I don't know, that's like if I pick up a CD which happens to have all that benefit data on it, I'd instantly become a criminal.

    Well you would. If you keep it, you've nicked it. The moral thing to do would surely be to hand it in to either the owner or the police and say "You might want to be a bit more careful what you do with this in future".
  • TechnoHippy 22 Sep 2008 12:01:56 14,714 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    terminus wrote:
    mrblackett wrote:
    Aspic wrote:
    But if you kept some very precious stuff inside your house, and everyone knew that you kept some precious stuff in the house, and decided to put some pretty rubbish locs on the door which some people could easily overcome, then any judge would probably have some choice words for you. Wouldn't affect the conviction of the burglar at all as you say, but you would be remarkably silly.

    Absolutely, which is probably why this knob was originally offered 3-4 years, not 70.

    So he deserves 70 years in prison for being a knob?

    What harm did he do anyway?

    Sometimes you have to question the validity of a law because humans are fallible and the laws are constructed by humans.

    I personally don't care what happens to him but I think the US are being unnecessarily cruel because he revealed what shit security they really have.

    He doesn't deserve 70 years, but he did turn out the much more reasonable offer they gave in the first place.

    Questioning the validity of the law is fair enough, but it doesn't give you the right to ignore if you disagree with it.

    My books, contests, reviews and author interviews on my blog

  • mrblackett 22 Sep 2008 12:02:17 856 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    terminus wrote:
    So he deserves 70 years in prison for being a knob?

    What harm did he do anyway?

    Sometimes you have to question the validity of a law because humans are fallible and the laws are constructed by humans.

    I personally don't care what happens to him but I think the US are being unnecessarily cruel because he revealed what shit security they really have.

    He's not facing 70 years. He's been offered 8-10. It's all right here.
  • FWB 22 Sep 2008 12:05:07 44,564 posts
    Seen 4 hours ago
    Registered 13 years ago
    A crime is a crime, no matter what. It's like the McCanns. Fucking morons for leaving their kid unsupervised, complete idiots, but the person ultimately responsible is whoever abducted her. Without them they'd be no crime.
  • TechnoHippy 22 Sep 2008 12:08:02 14,714 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    This thread is giving me Full Metal Jacket flashbacks :-)

    My books, contests, reviews and author interviews on my blog

  • mrblackett 22 Sep 2008 12:11:16 856 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Gradius wrote:
    I still think he should have been sentenced here in the UK. I don't like the idea of being able to commit an offence while in your own country but being sentenced under a different countries laws.

    It just doesn't work like that. The systems are on US soil. It's easy to feel sorry for him because, really, he didn't do very much. If he'd revealed the identity of US operatives in foreign countries, you'd be whistling a different tune.
  • Deleted user 22 September 2008 12:12:37
    Aspic wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    mrblackett wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    So he deserves 70 years in prison for being a knob?

    What harm did he do anyway?

    Sometimes you have to question the validity of a law because humans are fallible and the laws are constructed by humans.

    I personally don't care what happens to him but I think the US are being unnecessarily cruel because he revealed what shit security they really have.

    He's not facing 70 years. He's been offered 8-10. It's all right here.

    Even 8-10 years is pointless. Who is he a danger to? They should be using people like him to strengthen their security.

    If you think prison is for punishing people, then a custodial sentence makes sense but you know how that works, don't you? Prisons make criminals worse, not better. The ones who aren't a danger to the general public should not be imprisoned. And by danger I mean a physically or financial threat.

    Isn't it also a deterrant as well as a punishment?
    yes.
  • mrblackett 22 Sep 2008 12:15:44 856 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    terminus wrote:
    Even 8-10 years is pointless. Who is he a danger to? They should be using people like him to strengthen their security.

    If you think prison is for punishing people, then a custodial sentence makes sense but you know how that works, don't you? Prisons make criminals worse, not better. The ones who aren't a danger to the general public should not be imprisoned. And by danger I mean a physically or financial threat.

    What danger is he? You only have to read his own words.

    “US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days . . . It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels . . .”
  • Chopsen 22 Sep 2008 12:17:50 15,949 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    For the personality disordered miscreant that has a deeply ingrained maladaptive antisocial pattern of behaviour leading to criminal activity, a prison sentence probably isn't going to achieve anything. And neither is anything else for that matter.

    For a bored, intelligent, IT literate hacker-to-be, this case would act as a good deterrent and a custodial sentence is a good idea imho.
  • Gradius 22 Sep 2008 12:18:06 2,305 posts
    Seen 1 day ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    mrblackett wrote:
    Gradius wrote:
    I still think he should have been sentenced here in the UK. I don't like the idea of being able to commit an offence while in your own country but being sentenced under a different countries laws.

    It just doesn't work like that. The systems are on US soil. It's easy to feel sorry for him because, really, he didn't do very much. If he'd revealed the identity of US operatives in foreign countries, you'd be whistling a different tune.

    Yeah but he didn't. That's the point. I agree he's a bit of a knob but 8 years in a US prison for what was basically being a bit nosey doesn't sit right with me.
  • ecureuil 22 Sep 2008 12:18:53 76,802 posts
    Seen 3 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    mrblackett wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    Even 8-10 years is pointless. Who is he a danger to? They should be using people like him to strengthen their security.

    If you think prison is for punishing people, then a custodial sentence makes sense but you know how that works, don't you? Prisons make criminals worse, not better. The ones who aren't a danger to the general public should not be imprisoned. And by danger I mean a physically or financial threat.

    What danger is he? You only have to read his own words.

    “US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days . . . It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels . . .”

    You know, after this, I'm thinking he probably won't..
  • Deleted user 22 September 2008 12:24:13
    Bullshit, the US has to send him to jail to 10 years to make an example out of him. Boo hoo it is abit unfair but he should have got into this shit in the first place-it's not hard! If the US don't make an example out of him then there is no deterrent to thousands of others trying the same, and some of them will be sympathetic to terrorists. The law is about punishment, deterrent and rehabilitation.
  • Gradius 22 Sep 2008 12:29:17 2,305 posts
    Seen 1 day ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    It's more than a bit unfair imo. I'd have just given the guy an ASBO and told him not to do it again. Sorted! The fact is, the guy hasn't actually done anything that bad and didn't have 'evil' intentions. The US should harden the fuck up, admit their security is shit and learn from it.
  • TechnoHippy 22 Sep 2008 12:30:16 14,714 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    terminus wrote:
    mrblackett wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    Even 8-10 years is pointless. Who is he a danger to? They should be using people like him to strengthen their security.

    If you think prison is for punishing people, then a custodial sentence makes sense but you know how that works, don't you? Prisons make criminals worse, not better. The ones who aren't a danger to the general public should not be imprisoned. And by danger I mean a physically or financial threat.

    What danger is he? You only have to read his own words.

    “US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days . . . It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels . . .”

    Is he going to provide that information to terrorists?

    The government has no right to privacy by definition as they are supposed to serve the public. Anyway this is more of a philosophical argument and as far as it goes, I'd agree with him. I don't like powerful systems.

    What?! So the government should have to reveal any information is asked to by a citizen?

    My books, contests, reviews and author interviews on my blog

  • mrblackett 22 Sep 2008 12:32:34 856 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    terminus wrote:
    It's treatment like this that makes people angry and ideologically committed to the destruction of such systems of oppression in the first place.

    And look how far they've got. Honestly, if you expect Gary McKinnon to inspire the people's revolution to overthrow our oppressive overlords then you've got another thing coming. You don't have to look very far to see that the majority of people want the government to fix all of their little problems. It's sad but it's also reality.

    Believe me, no-one except the hacker community is going to be upset to see this bell end face his punishment.
  • Deleted user 22 September 2008 12:34:39
    He hacked into the US's security systems in this day and 'age of terrorism and paranoia'. He is not a complete retard, he knew what he was doing, he knew how it would be treated Do you honestly think that he thought they would just send him an angry email and try for an ASBO?!?!
  • TechnoHippy 22 Sep 2008 12:35:12 14,714 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    terminus wrote:
    Techno Hippy wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    mrblackett wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    Even 8-10 years is pointless. Who is he a danger to? They should be using people like him to strengthen their security.

    If you think prison is for punishing people, then a custodial sentence makes sense but you know how that works, don't you? Prisons make criminals worse, not better. The ones who aren't a danger to the general public should not be imprisoned. And by danger I mean a physically or financial threat.

    What danger is he? You only have to read his own words.

    “US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days . . . It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels . . .”

    Is he going to provide that information to terrorists?

    The government has no right to privacy by definition as they are supposed to serve the public. Anyway this is more of a philosophical argument and as far as it goes, I'd agree with him. I don't like powerful systems.

    What?! So the government should have to reveal any information is asked to by a citizen?

    Why not? The government serves the people, the people do not serve the government.

    It's actually both, but allowing any piece of information to be accessible by any citizen is extremely irresponsible.

    How about criminals being able to find out personal details of police officers?

    Or terrorists/enemy governments deployment details?

    Or neighbours details of each other's tax returns?

    My books, contests, reviews and author interviews on my blog

  • Deleted user 22 September 2008 12:36:12
    terminus wrote:
    Techno Hippy wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    mrblackett wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    Even 8-10 years is pointless. Who is he a danger to? They should be using people like him to strengthen their security.

    If you think prison is for punishing people, then a custodial sentence makes sense but you know how that works, don't you? Prisons make criminals worse, not better. The ones who aren't a danger to the general public should not be imprisoned. And by danger I mean a physically or financial threat.

    What danger is he? You only have to read his own words.

    “US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days . . . It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels . . .”

    Is he going to provide that information to terrorists?

    The government has no right to privacy by definition as they are supposed to serve the public. Anyway this is more of a philosophical argument and as far as it goes, I'd agree with him. I don't like powerful systems.

    What?! So the government should have to reveal any information is asked to by a citizen?

    Why not? The government serves the people, the people do not serve the government.
    You are not serious are you? You expect the government to divulge all its security information?
  • Deleted user 22 September 2008 12:43:17
    terminus wrote:
    mrblackett wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    It's treatment like this that makes people angry and ideologically committed to the destruction of such systems of oppression in the first place.

    And look how far they've got. Honestly, if you expect Gary McKinnon to inspire the people's revolution to overthrow our oppressive overlords then you've got another thing coming. You don't have to look very far to see that the majority of people want the government to fix all of their little problems. It's sad but it's also reality.

    Believe me, no-one except the hacker community is going to be upset to see this bell end face his punishment.

    Really. Ever heard of Noam Chomsky? MIT professor and long-time opponent of US imperialism.

    And please don't trivialise the problems of the world into a neat little package of bigotry. It's not so simple as man bad, US good, man stupid, prison good.

    Think a little for fuck's sake. You can disagree but try to form a coherent opinion instead of categorising your opponents as idiots.
    OMG you are spewing irony from all holes now.
  • FWB 22 Sep 2008 12:45:37 44,564 posts
    Seen 4 hours ago
    Registered 13 years ago
    Noam Chomsky this, Noam Chomsky that.
  • Deleted user 22 September 2008 12:46:06
    terminus wrote:
    mowgli wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    Techno Hippy wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    mrblackett wrote:
    terminus wrote:
    Even 8-10 years is pointless. Who is he a danger to? They should be using people like him to strengthen their security.

    If you think prison is for punishing people, then a custodial sentence makes sense but you know how that works, don't you? Prisons make criminals worse, not better. The ones who aren't a danger to the general public should not be imprisoned. And by danger I mean a physically or financial threat.

    What danger is he? You only have to read his own words.

    “US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days . . . It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels . . .”

    Is he going to provide that information to terrorists?

    The government has no right to privacy by definition as they are supposed to serve the public. Anyway this is more of a philosophical argument and as far as it goes, I'd agree with him. I don't like powerful systems.

    What?! So the government should have to reveal any information is asked to by a citizen?

    Why not? The government serves the people, the people do not serve the government.
    You are not serious are you? You expect the government to divulge all its security information?

    I'm never serious but you have to think about the validity of all organisations and if they overstep their remit, they should be disbanded. Power corrupts and should be treated with the utmost suspicion by citizens. I'm not advocating revolution just people thinking about the role the government plays in their life.
    OK I don't mean to patronise you but I think you need to step away from the Classical studies and into the real world.
  • mrblackett 22 Sep 2008 12:47:42 856 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    terminus wrote:
    Really. Ever heard of Noam Chomsky? MIT professor and long-time opponent of US imperialism.

    And please don't trivialise the problems of the world into a neat little package of bigotry. It's not so simple as man bad, US good, man stupid, prison good.

    Think a little for fuck's sake. You can disagree but try to form a coherent opinion instead of categorising your opponents as idiots.

    I won't dignify condescending insults. If you want a debate then fine. I haven't time for this.
  • LeoliansBro 22 Sep 2008 12:49:41 44,168 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    terminus wrote:
    The government serves the people, the people do not serve the government.

    terminus wrote three posts later:
    And please don't trivialise the problems of the world into a neat little package.

    Yeah, soundbites are only allowed if you're using them. I forgot about that. Oh, and:

    terminus died of irony while writing:
    You can disagree but try to form a coherent opinion instead of categorising your opponents as idiots.

    Now kindly fuck off and take your inconsistent, puddle-shallow, unsupported 'things I just thought of' ramblings somewhere else. Preferably somewhere where you can't delete your account and come back 20 minutes later to paint the forum grey and punctuate everybody else's conversation with a stream of rubbish like a baby dribbling because it hasn't figured out how to close its mouth. Preferably somewhere without people, as I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

    Grow up you wanker.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Gradius 22 Sep 2008 12:50:33 2,305 posts
    Seen 1 day ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    Mrblackett deserves an 8 year sentence for inciting racial hate on his profile.
    And, no, mowgli, I wasn't really suggesting that McKinnon should have received an ASBO, but giving him a harsh sentence just because he embarrassed America and let everyone know how incompetent they were is not fair in my eyes.
  • Deleted user 22 September 2008 12:51:57
    I know what kind of box I'd put you in.
  • mrblackett 22 Sep 2008 12:52:27 856 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Gradius wrote:
    Mrblackett deserves an 8 year sentence for inciting racial hate on his profile his profile.

    Bring it on, cracker. There's nothing wrong with being a self-hating white.
  • LeoliansBro 22 Sep 2008 12:52:49 44,168 posts
    Seen 6 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    terminus wrote:
    I studied Latin and Ancient Greek at university and that is not "Classical studies".

    Erm, yes it is.

    terminus wrote:
    But really I don't care what you think of me. My ideas are not me.

    Erm, yes they are.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Page

    of 12 First / Last

Log in or register to reply