Learning Japanese I think I'm learning Japanese I really think so Page 46

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  • boo 26 Sep 2012 23:06:20 11,778 posts
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    Have just started the new term after summer break, and the old grey matter's gone rusty.
    Can I just check with someone. If i wanted to say...

    'This book was interesting and short', would it be...

    この ほん は おもしろい、みじかい でした

    Cheers.

    Edited by boo at 23:08:59 26-09-2012

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 27 Sep 2012 01:13:07 11,318 posts
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    Nope. You'd say:

    Kono hon ha omoshirokute mijikakatta desu.

    Two things to watch out for. First, Japanese adjectives can be put into the past tense, so you don't need "Deshita" at the end, you put the adjective in the past, and leave the copula "Desu" in the present.

    Secondly, when you put a lot of adjectives together, you usually put them together like this:

    Kono hon ha omoshirokute benride ookikute kireide takakatta desu.

    In other words, except for the very last adjective, the 'i' adjectives lose the 'i' and take 'kute' (or sometimes just 'ku') and the 'na' adjectives lose the 'na' and take 'de' instead.

    I'm not explaining this well, but any basic Japanese grammar book will explain this in detail near the first few chapters. Good luck fella.

    Sorry! Edited for massive kanji-hiragana failure. For some reason EG won't display mine properly. >.<

    Edited by Telepathic.Geometry at 01:16:46 27-09-2012

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  • siro 27 Sep 2012 07:47:35 1,827 posts
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    Telepathic.Geometry wrote:
    In other words, except for the very last adjective, the 'i' adjectives lose the 'i' and take 'kute' (or sometimes just 'ku') and the 'na' adjectives lose the 'na' and take 'de' instead.

    I'm not explaining this well, but any basic Japanese grammar book will explain this in detail near the first few chapters. Good luck fella.
    Edited by Telepathic.Geometry at 01:16:46 27-09-2012
    I found your explanation much easier to follow than most Grammar books I had the pleasure with. :)
  • boo 27 Sep 2012 08:21:31 11,778 posts
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    Cheers TG. Still getting my head around te form and nai forms!

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 27 Sep 2012 08:40:55 11,318 posts
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    Glad that it helped. I'm no expert but feel free to ask any time, I have a pretty cushy job now, so I have time on my side. ;)

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  • Cadence 27 Sep 2012 09:58:19 1,687 posts
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    Great explanation dude. You should write a book!
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 27 Sep 2012 11:12:38 579 posts
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    This thread reminds me again that I need to get back into self-study as my Japanese skills are deteriorating horribly. Just got to figure out how best to fit them into a busy schedule and living in a country where accidentally using it could be a major mistake...

    boo: when I first learned the te form it seemed like a bit of a nightmare to remember all the rules for godan (u) verbs, then one day it just magically clicked and I never forgot (didn't take too long). It's probably the most difficult verb conjugation, the rest are more consistent (and te gets you ta for free) :)
  • boo 22 Oct 2012 13:47:09 11,778 posts
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    Heads up!

    Just started year 3 of evening classes, and our tutor encourages people to volunteer to do a presentation, which I've said I'll do.

    It's basically 15 - 20 sentences on a subject, with pictures, props etc
    The only rule is 'no notes'. You have to have memorised it.

    Chika-san will sanity check it before I start memorising, but I've written it in English, and I'm going to start translating tonight, so may well be back looking for all sorts of help!

    Cheers!

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  • siro 22 Oct 2012 16:11:11 1,827 posts
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    @boo
    You probably aren't supposed to fully memorize it, but speak freely instead, are you? :)

    Anyway, good look with the presentation, sounds cool.
    What will yours be about?
  • uiruki 22 Oct 2012 16:17:35 3,701 posts
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    I don't know how much you've prepared already, but I would strongly advise against writing it in English first, if possible. It's too easy to write yourself into a corner, and if you get someone else to check and they have to significantly amend it, it'll be harder to remember - and without notes, it'll be too tempting not to try and learn it by rote, which will go wrong unless you have the world's best memory.
  • boo 22 Oct 2012 16:24:21 11,778 posts
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    I did one in our first term - just 12 lines, but it still took me a fortnight to memorise it!

    I suspect our tutor would love us to be able to speak freely on a subject for a couple of minutes, but she knows our abilities, and is sticking to the 'write it, check it and learn it' route at the moment.

    I'm only writing it out in English so I've got the jist of what I'm trying to say - we've been warned many times of the dangers of translating English to Japanese, a word at a time!

    I'm just going to talk about my hobbies, so a bit about archery, a bit about drumming and a couple of lines about learning Japanese.

    It's a bit of a slog, but last time I did it, it improved my confidence no end - I'm hoping it'll have a similar effect this time.

    Edited by boo at 16:25:22 22-10-2012

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 23 Oct 2012 02:07:16 11,318 posts
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    Feel free to post it here too if ya like, we can check it for ya... :)

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  • boo 23 Oct 2012 07:56:17 11,778 posts
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    I'll put what I've got in English up at lunch. It comes across a bit clunky at the moment, but I need to avoid too much new vocabulary, and just stick to things we've done. So masu form, te form and nai form only.
    All suggestions welcome!

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 23 Oct 2012 08:08:09 11,318 posts
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    Make liberal use of "to omoimasu", in spoken Japanese you hear it all over the place every time someone is giving their opinion, even when saying things that they KNOW rather than just THINK.

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  • boo 23 Oct 2012 11:45:39 11,778 posts
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    Thi is what I've got after a first pass. Ideally I want about 18 sentences in all.

    Reading it back, it's immensely clunky, and sounds like a 5 year old talking, but it doesn't have to be word for word - I don't want to change it too much though, as each sentence will be illustrated with a picture or a prop.



    Title = My hobbies

    01. I have several hobbies. Two of them are archery and playing the drums.

    02. My wife and I watched the Beijing Olympics on television in 2008. We thought the archery was very interesting.

    03. I started archery three years ago. This is my bow. It's blue, and it's quite heavy.

    04. I belong to the Chiltern Archery club in Aston Clinton.

    05. I go every Wednesday evening for two hours. It's quite tiring!

    06. When I started I wasn't very good. I'm a little better now.

    07. We went to see the archery at the London Olympics this year, in St. Johns Wood.

    08. This is Jin Hyek Oh from Korea. He was the champion.

    09. Another hobby is playing the drums.

    10. I started playing in 1985.

    11. This is a picture of me with my drumkit.

    12. I have been with several bands. These are the Fat Blokes, and this is Moco.

    13. Playing music is great fun. I really enjoy it.

    14. But carrying everything afterwards is not fun at all!

    15. Of course my other hobby is studying Japanese.



    I need to add another three or four sentences, and then obviously translate them.

    Any suggestions, or help with translation, gratefully received!!!

    Domo arigatou gozaimasu!

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 24 Oct 2012 05:53:28 11,318 posts
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    Why don't you just translate it, and then we can help you out with whatever it is you want to say. I will say, it reads like Japanese, even though it's in English. :)

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  • boo 25 Oct 2012 07:47:13 11,778 posts
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    Ok, finally getting around to starting the translation.
    Can't decide which is the better term for a title. I can have either:

    わたしのよぎ
    or
    わたしのどうらく

    Both of which mean hobby, according to the dictionary.

    Edit - sorry, should have been clearer. I'm not looking for anyone to do the translation work for me - just sanity check my results!
    Cheers!

    Edited by boo at 07:51:04 25-10-2012

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  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 25 Oct 2012 10:02:16 579 posts
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    Were you not taught しゅみ for hobby? That is the common early vocabulary most textbooks seem to use.
  • boo 25 Oct 2012 10:09:28 11,778 posts
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    I'm at work now, and this PC doesn't have the relevant language packs installed, so I have no idea what you've written.

    Thanks though - will have a look tonight.

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 26 Oct 2012 03:31:56 11,318 posts
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    Yeah, shumi is the word I've heard the most. But I think there's a wee difference between the words "hobby" and "pasttime" in English and Japanese, so maybe that's where the discrepancy comes from.

    The kanji are uv.

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 26 Oct 2012 03:32:27 11,318 posts
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    :/ EG won't let me write kanji... :/

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  • Mola_Ram 26 Oct 2012 04:25:16 7,382 posts
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    I would just write 'shumi'. I understand 'yogi' and 'douraku' but they sound overly formal. Shumi is the word that is used more often, in my experience.
  • boo 26 Oct 2012 19:29:58 11,778 posts
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    Cheers - checked ith Chika-san last night and she agreed that shumi was most appropriate.
    I'll have to check back through my notes - I've probably come across it and forgotten again.

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  • boo 31 Oct 2012 14:05:37 11,778 posts
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    Question.

    Regarding the sentence : "I belong to the Chiltern Archery club in Aston Clinton."

    'I belong to the archery club' would be something like...

    Watashi wa shahou kurabu no menba desu

    And 'the Chiltern Archery club in Aston Clinton' would be :

    Chiltern shahou kurabu no Aston Clinton'

    But how would you combine the two?

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 1 Nov 2012 02:54:54 11,318 posts
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    Are you sure it wouldn't be "Aston Clinton no Chiltern shahou kurabu no menba desu"? I could very well be wrong but...

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  • jakuande 1 Nov 2012 08:18:27 192 posts
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    I think archery club is probably :

    アーチェリー部

    "archery bu"

    assuming you're doing western style archery. A Japanese style archery club would be 弓術部 "kyujutsu bu" or 弓道部 "kyudou bu".

    I think "shahou" is a fairly specialist word describing a type of traditional archery.
  • boo 1 Nov 2012 08:43:45 11,778 posts
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    Cheers! Yes, it's just 'regular' western style recurve archery.
    The dictionary that I used was not specific.

    Thanks TG - I've got class tonight, so I'll get Chika-san to look over what I've done so far.

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 2 Nov 2012 02:24:19 11,318 posts
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    Hope it all goes well. :) d--(^-^)

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  • boo 12 Nov 2012 20:54:41 11,778 posts
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    Quick question if there are any Japan-o-philes out there.

    How would I say 'three years ago'? As in 'I started archery three years ago'.

    It's going to be something like :

    San nen ? watashi wa archery ni hajimarimashita.

    Not sure how to turn 'three years' into 'three years ago'.

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  • boo 12 Nov 2012 21:00:57 11,778 posts
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    Ah! I think I've found it.
    San nen mae.

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