The Disclosure Project, Von Braun and ETs

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  • tedster11 27 Feb 2008 10:00:44 575 posts
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    Hi all,

    I rarely post in the forums but have been visiting and adding my occasional points of view for about 8 years I'm guessing now. I didn't really have anywhere else to discuss this and moreover thought, 'why would I want anywhere else to discuss it when people here display reasoned opinions already' - for the most part!

    So, I want to talk about UFOs/The disclosure project/von braun. To give you an idea, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I really am a generic normal bloke who has always had a curiosity with space - but I'm not a 'Treky'. I'm interested in the facts and the history of space and have recently done a little digging. I'd like to know how you feel about these topics. Are they new to you, do you have an interest, do you find these totally ridiculous, does this information scare you?

    Today on the BBC website, under the 'Science/Nature' link there's this: Every body run there's an asteroid coming. Ok it's due to 'land' in 2036. There's a really big reason why I'm sceptical about this. To explain, I've a quote which will save me a lot of hot air and allow me to get to the point.

    Wernher Von Braun - the famous rocket scientist in WWII - was a clever chap. After the war he continued his work in the field of space exploration and towards the end of his life he employed/had a spokesperson. This quote is from that spokesperson.

    "What was most interesting to me was a repetitive sentence that he said to me over and over again during the approximately four years that I had the opportunity to work with him. He said the strategy that was being used to educate the public and decision makers was to use scare tactics That was how we identify an enemy. The strategy that Wernher Von Braun taught me was that first the Russians are going to be considered to be the enemy. In fact, in 1974, they were the enemy, the identified enemy. We were told that they had "killer satellites". We were told that they were coming to get us and control us-that they were "Commies.

    Then terrorists would be identified, and that was soon to follow. We heard a lot about terrorism. Then we were going to identify third-world country "crazies." We now call them Nations of Concern. But he said that would be the third enemy against whom we would build space-based weapons. The next enemy was asteroids. Now, at this point he kind of chuckled the first time he said it.

    Asteroids- against asteroids we are going to build space-based weapons.

    And the funniest one of all was what he called aliens, extraterrestrials. That would be the final scare. And over and over and over during the four years that I knew him and was giving speeches for him, he would bring up that last card. "And remember Carol, the last card is the alien card. We are going to have to build space-based weapons against aliens and all of it is a lie." - Dr Carol Rosin. Full article

    As I say I'm 'ordinary bloke' - I'm sat in my office in the Barbican right now typing this instead of working - I'm not in this for any conspiracy theory. This is why it scares me somewhat.

    This quote forms part of a much larger series of testimonials drawn together as part of The Disclosure Project (website & YouTube.

    There are hundreds of testimonials ranging from pilots, government employees, ex-military and further respectable persons. Is anyone else shocked and dismayed (TBH there's a lot here for anyone new to this to respond quickly, I had to get this off my chest! :))

    Lastly and related to the disclosure project and ETs, there's this video of an electrical cable in space snapping off the ship it was attached to. I find the objects swarming around absolutely fascinating (I don't believe they're optical illusions of the camera, the reason being every shape is exactly the same, has a black hole in the middle and a notch in it's side, pulse, maintain a relative size as the camera pans in and out and change direction (4:25).)

    That's the longest, garbled post I've ever made. The last bit about the tether is highly debateable and I could be way off the mark with it being anything.

    I'm exhausted! What do you make of any of this - if' you've not passed out from boredom!

    Cheers

    (Added the tether video!)
    Tedster11 (aka EddyG for TF2!)
  • WrongShui 27 Feb 2008 10:03:25 6,598 posts
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    After aliens its the Jew scare.

    Then its gone full circle and its back to commies.
  • AwesomeWells 27 Feb 2008 10:11:58 406 posts
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    But what if it's the AlienJewCommies?

    I, for one, welcome our new overlords.
  • DaM 27 Feb 2008 11:28:38 12,892 posts
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    I was surprised at the complete lack of exposure the Disclosure Project got at the time.

    There was a similar event a few months ago, lots of pilots and very high ranking ex-military.

    We need a group for stuff like this!
  • marilena 27 Feb 2008 11:34:19 8,198 posts
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    The thing is, these things just never get anywhere. You have people testifying that they met aliens and people who say those guys are crazy. And you have no real criteria to judge who's lying.

    So, basically, I stick my head in the sand and ignore all of this. I don't see what I could do better.
  • AwesomeWells 27 Feb 2008 11:38:39 406 posts
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    They are already amongst us...and digging for stuff
  • DaM 27 Feb 2008 11:55:27 12,892 posts
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    marilena wrote:
    The thing is, these things just never get anywhere. You have people testifying that they met aliens and people who say those guys are crazy. And you have no real criteria to judge who's lying.

    So, basically, I stick my head in the sand and ignore all of this. I don't see what I could do better.

    The Disclosure Project brought a lot of serving and retired pilots and servicemen, well respected and supposedly reliable people, mainly reporting sightings of UFOs they had had in the line of duty. These had often been backed up by radar. The one a few weeks back featured the form head of the Belgium Air Force. They are not making any money, and they certainly have nothing to gain.
  • tedster11 27 Feb 2008 12:11:29 575 posts
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    marilena wrote:
    The thing is, these things just never get anywhere. You have people testifying that they met aliens and people who say those guys are crazy. And you have no real criteria to judge who's lying.

    So, basically, I stick my head in the sand and ignore all of this. I don't see what I could do better.

    Yeah you're right, they don't get anywhere, which is precisely why it's so intriguing/frightening. Why don't they get anywhere? Who's stopping them from getting anywhere!

    I find it laughable really. It's clearly constantly being buried by someone for some reason, with an expectation that the everyday person should just get on with their business. why?

    It clearly runs far deeper which if you follow a logical train of thought just leads me to believe that this is all very real. I found this clip nauseating as the subject's constantly made a mockery of.

    The Obama Race!! :)
  • monkie_king 27 Feb 2008 12:22:38 984 posts
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    Well, Greer is a bit of a nut-job unfortunately, and the credible-witness testimony side of the Disclosure Project tends to get polluted with military-industrial complex conspiracy and hippy aquarian visions of intergalactic space brotherhoods.

    And don't forget that there's a huge leap between believing in the existance of "unidentified aerial phenomena" and concluding that they are nuts-and-bolts spacecraft piloted by extra-terrestrials from outer space.

    Personally, I reckon we'll one day make contact with a superior alien intelligence, and they'll say "UFOs? Yeah, we get them too. We've no idea either."
  • Tiger_Walts 27 Feb 2008 12:23:35 16,579 posts
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    Where do zombies and robot uprisings fit into all this?

    IT Monkey and StickyPiston Minecraft Hosting Support

  • S.J.Rogers 27 Feb 2008 12:33:55 3,557 posts
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    monkie_king wrote:

    Personally, I reckon we'll one day make contact with a superior alien intelligence, and they'll say "UFOs? Yeah, we get them too. We've no idea either."

    That is without doubt the MOST inteligent thing i have ever heard.

    Well done that man..!
  • tedster11 27 Feb 2008 12:34:26 575 posts
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    monkie_king wrote:
    Personally, I reckon we'll one day make contact with a superior alien intelligence, and they'll say "UFOs? Yeah, we get them too. We've no idea either."

    hmm, yeah I like that

    Tiger_Walts wrote:
    "Where do zombies and robot uprisings fit into all this?"

    I don't know, but let's just hope for one thing at a time. I was always told, 'patience is a virtue'.

    Took me ages to work a out what, 'a virtue' was but I'm there now and appreciate the saying. Although frankly I would have been more intelligent/wiser quicker had it just been explained when I was 8 years old. Similarly, I wish whoever's blocking the truth from me would stop, explain and let me get back to work.
  • Tiger_Walts 27 Feb 2008 12:42:07 16,579 posts
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    Lastly and related to the disclosure project and ETs, there's this video of an electrical cable in space snapping off the ship it was attached to. I find the objects swarming around absolutely fascinating (I don't believe they're optical illusions of the camera, the reason being every shape is exactly the same, has a black hole in the middle and a notch in it's side, pulse, maintain a relative size as the camera pans in and out and change direction (4:25).)

    They're dust motes, most likely passing near the end of the telescope. The hole in the middle of them is probably due to the telescope using one or more concave reflectors with a hole in the middle for light to pass through. Out of focus objects project an image that has been spread from the centre of the reflectors. This exaggeration can be seen in the video on those dust motes as those black holes.

    IT Monkey and StickyPiston Minecraft Hosting Support

  • tedster11 27 Feb 2008 12:53:07 575 posts
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    Tiger_Walts wrote:
    Lastly and related to the disclosure project and ETs, there's this video of an electrical cable in space snapping off the ship it was attached to. I find the objects swarming around absolutely fascinating (I don't believe they're optical illusions of the camera, the reason being every shape is exactly the same, has a black hole in the middle and a notch in it's side, pulse, maintain a relative size as the camera pans in and out and change direction (4:25).)

    They're dust motes, most likely passing near the end of the telescope. The hole in the middle of them is probably due to the telescope using one or more concave reflectors with a hole in the middle for light to pass through. Out of focus objects project an image that has been spread from the centre of the reflectors. This exaggeration can be seen in the video on those dust motes as those black holes.

    I'm totally open to this not being anything special, but I can't believe it's dust. Just going from 2:20 to 2:40 minutes the number rapidly increases and then at 4:25 on of them comes in from the left, appears to leave the picture, but as the camera pans out again you can see that it changes direction and moves down. the pulse too. They may not be flat objects they could be spherical. I don't know but I'm just not convinced it's dust or lense distortions. Still my interest is leaning more towards the von braun predictions over the tether video. Still interesting though.
  • DaM 27 Feb 2008 13:02:05 12,892 posts
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    Dr Carol sounds a bit of a nut job IMO.
    "Another time I called Saddam Hussein when he was lighting his oil fields on fire...."

    As you do.....

    I prefer the video of the big disk, and the thing shooting up from the earth towards it, have you seen that one?
  • tedster11 27 Feb 2008 13:03:54 575 posts
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    DaM wrote:
    Dr Carol sounds a bit of a nut job IMO.
    "Another time I called Saddam Hussein when he was lighting his oil fields on fire...."

    As you do.....

    I prefer the video of the big disk, and the thing shooting up from the earth towards it, have you seen that one?

    Don't know, don't think so, got a link?

    It would equally crack me up if all this was the contents of a mad mans pants and he's the one having a field day causing a global furore!
  • monkie_king 27 Feb 2008 13:05:26 984 posts
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    tedster11 wrote:
    Took me ages to work a out what, 'a virtue' was but I'm there now and appreciate the saying. Although frankly I would have been more intelligent/wiser quicker had it just been explained when I was 8 years old. Similarly, I wish whoever's blocking the truth from me would stop, explain and let me get back to work.

    It always seems like a big revelation was just around the corner, but letting it go is probably a good plan. I got really into the Fortean Times and UFOs and conspiracy stuff back when the X Files was on TV, and the only thing that's changed since then is a load of blurry camcorder clips on YouTube, and thousands more UFO conspiracy web-pages based on pure speculation. The trouble is that everything is spun off from a very few pieces of evidence -- Roswell keeps getting dug up time and time again, and then you've got "testimony" from the likes of Bob Lazar, who either a) worked on an above-top-secret black project reverse-engineering captured alien saucer technology at Groom Lake, or b) is a complete charlatan who made it all up to sell his books. There's so much noise it's impossible to sort the wheat from the chaff (which could all be part of a massive disinformation campaign to discredit the ufology community, of course ;-)

    Have you ever heard of the UFO curse? Written by Philip J Klass, who was a UFO researcher for 40 years:

    No matter how long you live, you will never know any more about UFOs than you know today. You will never know any more about what UFOs really are, or where they come from. You will never know any more about what the U.S. Government really knows about UFOs than you know today. As you lie on your own death-bed you will be as mystified about UFOs as you are today. And you will remember this curse.

    Seriously though, if you're into this stuff the Fortean Times is well worth checking out. It takes a very broad and open-minded view of the panoply of weird shit that's out there, without a skeptical or a true-believer agenda. Also looks at the bigger picture, social stuff like how UFO sightings rise during times of paranoia like the cold war, how modern ET encounters are related to meetings with "fairy folk" from Irish folklore and things like that. The web-site and boards are worth a look too -- might be worth re-posting the OP over there, to be honest.

    /adjust tin-foil hat, retires to bunker
    edit: eek, that was long
  • RichGL 27 Feb 2008 13:24:49 793 posts
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    I love all this stuff but considering the kind of effects you can get these days with top quality equipment. Then consider that to produce an internet ready film you can drop the quality about 10,000 times. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to realise that someone with access to good equipment and the know how could produce films that look like anything you want.

    However, that said I love seeing them so bring it on :)
  • glaeken 27 Feb 2008 13:30:12 11,090 posts
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    What I have always found odd is the birth of the UFO phenomena coincides with Hollywood starting to make films about alien invasions in the early 1950's. Before there was any mass media on the subject it appears that the aliens did not think we were worth visiting. Odd that.

    There was a great program on one of the Discovery channels a while back on "Real" UFO's and one of the most interesting things the program actually revealed was how many ex CIA men joined or even started UFO groups during the 50's and 60's. It was very obvious that the CIA were encouraging belief in UFO's as a misinformation campaign to cover up unusual sightings of experimental aircraft.
  • gizmo 27 Feb 2008 13:32:44 2,025 posts
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    glaeken wrote:
    What I have always found odd is the birth of the UFO phenomena coincides with Hollywood starting to make films about alien invasions in the early 1950's. Before there was any mass media on the subject it appears that the aliens did not think we were worth visiting. Odd that.

    There was a great program on one of the Discovery channels a while back on "Real" UFO's and one of the most interesting things the program actually revealed was how many ex CIA men joined or even started UFO groups during the 50's and 60's. It was very obvious that the CIA were encouraging belief in UFO's as a misinformation campaign to cover up unusual sightings of experimental aircraft.

    ^Not heard of foo fighters?
  • marilena 27 Feb 2008 13:37:02 8,198 posts
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    monkie_king wrote:
    No matter how long you live, you will never know any more about UFOs than you know today. You will never know any more about what UFOs really are, or where they come from. You will never know any more about what the U.S. Government really knows about UFOs than you know today. As you lie on your own death-bed you will be as mystified about UFOs as you are today. And you will remember this curse.

    That's exactly how I feel.

    And yes, tedster, that does make it fascinating. I watched a documentary about the Nazca drawings recently and I was totally captivated by the mystery of it, just like when I was a kid. But the truth is, it happened a long time ago and, unless something extraordinary happens, we'll never know what they're about.
  • glaeken 27 Feb 2008 13:37:50 11,090 posts
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    gizmo wrote:
    glaeken wrote:
    What I have always found odd is the birth of the UFO phenomena coincides with Hollywood starting to make films about alien invasions in the early 1950's. Before there was any mass media on the subject it appears that the aliens did not think we were worth visiting. Odd that.

    There was a great program on one of the Discovery channels a while back on "Real" UFO's and one of the most interesting things the program actually revealed was how many ex CIA men joined or even started UFO groups during the 50's and 60's. It was very obvious that the CIA were encouraging belief in UFO's as a misinformation campaign to cover up unusual sightings of experimental aircraft.

    ^Not heard of foo fighters?

    Yes I have heard of foo fighters but those sightings are nothing compared with the explosion of sightings that occurred in the 50's and onwards after alien invasion became such a popular subject in films.

    As for the foo fighter sightings it happen during war time and really could have been anything from flak to experimental aircraft to PTSD. Aliens being the least likely possible explanation.
  • gizmo 27 Feb 2008 13:40:39 2,025 posts
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    glaeken wrote:
    gizmo wrote:
    glaeken wrote:
    What I have always found odd is the birth of the UFO phenomena coincides with Hollywood starting to make films about alien invasions in the early 1950's. Before there was any mass media on the subject it appears that the aliens did not think we were worth visiting. Odd that.

    There was a great program on one of the Discovery channels a while back on "Real" UFO's and one of the most interesting things the program actually revealed was how many ex CIA men joined or even started UFO groups during the 50's and 60's. It was very obvious that the CIA were encouraging belief in UFO's as a misinformation campaign to cover up unusual sightings of experimental aircraft.

    ^Not heard of foo fighters?

    Yes I have heard of foo fighters but those sightings are nothing compared with the explosion of sightings that occurred in the 50's and onwards after alien invasion became such a popular subject in films.


    It goes back a lot, lot further than that. Also, you have to factor in population explosion.

  • glaeken 27 Feb 2008 13:55:27 11,090 posts
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    According to whom does it go back a lot further than that?

    There are of course the famous historical UFO's of the meteor that is said to have influenced the Emperor Constantine or Halley’s comet showing up on the Bayeux Tapestry but as we can explain those things now to me they are no longer UFO's.

    As far as I am aware UFO's and the Alien explanation has only been around as a mass view point since the 1940's/1950's.
  • DaM 27 Feb 2008 14:09:50 12,892 posts
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    tedster11 wrote:
    DaM wrote:
    Dr Carol sounds a bit of a nut job IMO.
    "Another time I called Saddam Hussein when he was lighting his oil fields on fire...."

    As you do.....

    I prefer the video of the big disk, and the thing shooting up from the earth towards it, have you seen that one?

    Don't know, don't think so, got a link?

    It would equally crack me up if all this was the contents of a mad mans pants and he's the one having a field day causing a global furore!

    Here's one. Nasa used to play the cameras on the space shuttle (the one on the arm maybe?) live. A guy in a cable station in Canada used to review it, there is load of stuff like this. Specks of dust, ice crystals, spaceships, who knows!

    Nasa don't play this stuff live anymore!
  • Khanivor 27 Feb 2008 15:55:02 40,366 posts
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    I also find the subject fascinating. While I do believe there's lots of life out therein the galaxy I'm not sure that any of it has the means nor the inclination to come and pay us a visit. It's possible some have but their numbers would surely be tiny.

    I think much of the UFOs seen by man are wishful thinking, tricks on the ey and natural phenomenon, stuff that ties into an obviously deep seated ability of the human mind to conjure up the fantastical. I think the rest is indeed military stuff with the UFO angle being happily promoted by said military as the best damn form of cover they could hope to have. This has been well documented in the 50 and 60s and there's no reason to think such an ingenious plan would have been abandoned in the intervening years.
  • WrongShui 27 Feb 2008 16:02:33 6,598 posts
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    UFOs are advanced Nazi spacecraft, that exit out of the hollow earth at the south pole.

    I thought this was common knowledge?
  • DaM 27 Feb 2008 16:11:45 12,892 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    I also find the subject fascinating. While I do believe there's lots of life out therein the galaxy I'm not sure that any of it has the means nor the inclination to come and pay us a visit. It's possible some have but their numbers would surely be tiny.

    I think much of the UFOs seen by man are wishful thinking, tricks on the ey and natural phenomenon, stuff that ties into an obviously deep seated ability of the human mind to conjure up the fantastical. I think the rest is indeed military stuff with the UFO angle being happily promoted by said military as the best damn form of cover they could hope to have. This has been well documented in the 50 and 60s and there's no reason to think such an ingenious plan would have been abandoned in the intervening years.


    I read somewhere recently (Nick Pope I think) that the Americans had made discreet enquiries to the UK to see if they were testing some hyper-advanced flying triangle, as it wasn't theirs.

    But yes, it is a great cover story.

    I was thinking about galactic civilisations the other day - if you accept that life is common and we are not unique, then there must be massive galaxy spanning civilisations out there, like Star Wars, or the Culture.....makes you think!
  • Khanivor 27 Feb 2008 17:26:38 40,366 posts
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    I can't remember the name of the project but the US military were indeed involved in propagating UFO stories to help cover up their advanced projects. I mean, how good an idea is it to have people think you are hiding UFOs at Area 51 when it's the testing airfield for your super secret defence projects. Not only are the planes explained away but rational people will dismiss that they even exist as it's nutters banging on about them.

    I was under the impression the flying triangle thing was something called the Aurora.
  • PearOfAnguish 27 Feb 2008 19:10:56 7,137 posts
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    According to whom does it go back a lot further than that?

    According to newspapers and historical records.

    If by 'UFOs' you mean flying saucers and ETs, then that particular explanation did become popular in the 40s, but UFOs do not necessarily equal alien spacecraft and people have been seeing strange things in the sky for as long as records go back. Earlier than the Kenneth Arnold sighting was the airship flap of the late 1800s. There were lots of stories coming into newspapers of airships which landed, carrying strange occupants who occasionally took the people they encountered on long journeys. There was all sorts of weirdness with the airships. Several of the airship pilots claimed they were working on fantastic new craft and would be unveiling them to the world, only to disappear after creating a fuss. Objects were dropped from airships flying overhead, everything from mundane items like newspapers to strange chunks of metal. Some of the airship pilots had unusual features, including reports of those with elongated fingers (something that's common to folklore as well as UFO lore).

    I can't remember the name of the project but the US military were indeed involved in propagating UFO stories to help cover up their advanced projects. I mean, how good an idea is it to have people think you are hiding UFOs at Area 51 when it's the testing airfield for your super secret defence projects. Not only are the planes explained away but rational people will dismiss that they even exist as it's nutters banging on about them.

    Nick Redfern has a theory that the Roswell crash was an experiment that went wrong. He claims that the strange bodies they found weren't aliens but deformed humans undergoing experiments on the effects of high altitude flying and nuclear-powered aircraft. He's linked it back to the infamous Japanese 'Unit 731', which would explain why the government would prefer that people believe it was an alien craft.

    how modern ET encounters are related to meetings with "fairy folk" from Irish folklore and things like that

    Read some of John Keel's books (Mothman Prophecies, Our Haunted Planet etc). He has this grand unifying theory of paranormal phenomena that ties together everything from UFOs to Yeti to ghosts, all to do with some force that exists and has always existed on our planet. It's nutty, but interesting, particularly when he points out all the weirdness that doesn't get reported by 'mainstream' UFO groups because it doesn't fit in around the ET explanation.
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