Wikileaks

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  • ThreeOutsideDown 19 Feb 2008 11:19:29 1,011 posts
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    do you have documents the world needs to see?

    Wikileaks

    there's some interesting stuff on there.

    from the "about us" page...


    Wikileaks is developing an uncensorable Wikipedia for untraceable mass document leaking and analysis. Our primary interest is in exposing oppressive regimes in Asia, the former Soviet bloc, Sub-Saharan Africa and the Middle East, but we also expect to be of assistance to people of all regions who wish to reveal unethical behavior in their governments and corporations. We aim for maximum political impact. Our interface is identical to Wikipedia and usable by all types of people. We have received over 1.2 million documents so far from dissident communities and anonymous sources.

    We believe that transparency in government activities leads to reduced corruption, better government and stronger democracies. All governments can benefit from increased scrutiny by the world community, as well as their own people. We believe this scrutiny requires information. Historically that information has been costly - in terms of human life and human rights. But with technological advances - the internet, and cryptography - the risks of conveying important information can be lowered.

    Wikileaks opens leaked documents up to stronger scrutiny than any media organization or intelligence agency can provide. Wikileaks provides a forum for the entire global community to relentlessly examine any document for its credibility, plausibility, veracity and validity. Communities can interpret leaked documents and explain their relevance to the public. If a document comes from the Chinese government, the entire Chinese dissident community and diaspora can freely scrutinize and discuss it; if a document arrives from Iran, the entire Farsi community can analyze it and put it in context. Sample analyses are available here.

    In its landmark ruling on the Pentagon Papers, the US Supreme Court ruled that "only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government." We agree.

    We believe that it is not only the people of one country that keep their government honest, but also the people of other countries who are watching that government. That is why the time has come for an anonymous global avenue for disseminating documents the public should see.

  • Amajiro 19 Feb 2008 11:39:56 2,214 posts
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    Yanks not happy, but internet wins.
  • faux-C 17 Mar 2009 13:01:22 9,398 posts
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    Barclays uses LAWYER-POWER!!! to stop The Guardian from printing leaked memos.

    The memos on wikileaks.
  • Merlinho 17 Mar 2009 13:14:54 5,909 posts
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    Interesting stuff, I enjoyed it most for this sentence:

    Alistair Darling, told parliament he had asked HMRC to publish shortly a draft code of practice on taxation for banks "so that banks will comply not just with the letter of the law but the spirit of the law".

    Almost as good as the classic by Harriet Harman on Fred the Shred's pension:
    "It might be enforceable in a court of law, this contract, but it?s not enforceable in the court of public opinion and that?s where the Government steps in."
  • faux-C 17 Mar 2009 13:21:03 9,398 posts
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    Merlinho wrote:
    Almost as good as the classic by Harriet Harman on Fred the Shred's pension:
    "It might be enforceable in a court of law, this contract, but it?s not enforceable in the court of public opinion and that?s where the Government steps in."

    This story, yeah?
  • jellyhead 5 Apr 2010 16:28:37 24,350 posts
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    I won't be clicking that, sorry.

    This signature intentionally left blank.

  • sirtacos 5 Apr 2010 16:34:25 7,287 posts
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    Fantastic! Can't wait to see how successful this becomes.

    That said, the site's been active since 2006 and I've only heard of it now, so maybe misplaced optimism is misplaced.

    Wikileaks have been building this up for a while. US forces murder Reuters journalists.

    Really fucking depressing viewing.

    Wow.
    And that's just one of many similar incidents. I read about "x civilians killed in Iraq" all the time, but seeing that video really hammers in how fucked up it is.
    It'd be too easy to call these guys cunts - they are, but they're also the products of a system that makes such cunts proliferate and grow into even more lethal cunts.
    Too many things wrong with it to list...
  • Retroid Moderator 5 Apr 2010 16:49:16 44,803 posts
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    I'm extremely fucked off with the people in those gunships. No guns were seen in that video. They mowed everyone down. Then they shot up the van which arrived to take the wounded. Why not just follow them? No, shoot that up too.

    Trigger-happy cunts.
  • sirtacos 5 Apr 2010 16:51:51 7,287 posts
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    Upon seeing the dead bodies:
    cunt 1: "Look at 'em - dead bastards"
    cunt 2: "Nice"

    Ah, the wonders of impersonal warfare.
  • daz_john_smith 5 Apr 2010 17:07:46 1,636 posts
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    Chilling stuff.

    It's terrifying how easily they can acquire the order to fire with little to no evidence or collaboration of weapons or enemy combatants.
  • effinjamie 5 Apr 2010 17:16:19 889 posts
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    That was disgusting

    PSN - effinjamie Xbox - effinjamie

  • MrTomFTW Moderator 5 Apr 2010 17:20:36 38,355 posts
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    That's just fucked up... There's nothing that looks like weapons in that video. Not a thing... They have cameras over their shoulders FFS... Then that van turns up to help the wounded and they shoot them too - children and all.

    No excuse.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • MrSensible 5 Apr 2010 17:26:41 25,070 posts
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    That's just depressing :(
  • Merlinho 5 Apr 2010 18:13:20 5,909 posts
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    They apparently mistook a camera for an RPG...
  • Orange 5 Apr 2010 18:28:49 4,822 posts
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    Mistaking the cameras for guns is one thing, but shooting up that van was just unreal. It was collecting the wounded and posing no threat.
  • Jackface 5 Apr 2010 18:44:44 3,736 posts
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    Welcome to the cold, brutal, inhuman viciousness of war, and the cunts that cheerfully sign up to fire the guns in the name of 'freedom'.
  • wafflemaker 5 Apr 2010 19:10:40 238 posts
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    Truly sickening. The way they callously talk about the dead, then blaming them for bringing their kids into a battleground, when they were the first to shoot. Even worse is the cover up.
  • Benno 5 Apr 2010 19:28:53 9,933 posts
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    thats awful
  • thenastypasty 5 Apr 2010 19:29:12 5,183 posts
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    That really is a depressing watch,unfortunately fire first ask questions later is a trait of the American army,I have a friend in the 1ST battalion of the rifles who has served in both Iraq and Afghanistan and he doesn't have a good word to say about the way Americans deal with situations just like this.
  • El_MUERkO 5 Apr 2010 20:59:34 17,050 posts
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    depressing stuff, a catalogue of errors and a woeful disregard for civilian safety
  • KTM 5 Apr 2010 21:48:31 1,674 posts
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    The American Army is pretty crap, their Best soldiers are comparable to our worst.

    They rely on superior kit and greater numbers to win everything. (Which does work, but that's irrelevant.) their entire attitude towards the civillian population in theatre stinks.

    Ever since we got caught picking up iraqis with a forklift, putting them in human pyramids and making them bum each other our forces have been jumped all over in regards to human rights and respect for life.

    A lot of our blokes that were initially killed (during herrick 4 in 2006 and onwards to herrick 8 in 2008) could have been saved had we been allowed to shoot people that looked a bit dodgy or were doing stuff that was a bit suspect.

    I haven't seen that video and I'm not going to watch it but bear in mind that unless you have been to war, seen your mates get blown up and then had to carry them to a hls to be taken home you can't really comment.

    Edit: that last bit isn't worded correcty. Obviously you can comment on unjustified use of force but you can't fully understand the situation at that time and in that location from a biased bit of media. The people working there would have had to make a decision based on what they could see in front of them at that moment. Whether it's right or wrong with hindsight doesn't matter too much. Just be grateful it int you that has to make that decision.
  • DodgyPast 5 Apr 2010 21:50:38 8,479 posts
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    Just bear in mind how many other times this kind of thing happens and no one gets caught.

    Sadly it's not exactly anything new; troops of all nations have been behaving in appalling and illegal ways forever.
  • wafflemaker 5 Apr 2010 21:52:56 238 posts
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    KTM wrote:
    The American Army is pretty crap, their Best soldiers are comparable to our worst.

    They rely on superior kit and greater numbers to win everything. (Which does work, but that's irrelevant.) their entire attitude towards the civillian population in theatre stinks.

    Ever since we got caught picking up iraqis with a forklift, putting them in human pyramids and making them bum each other our forces have been jumped all over in regards to human rights and respect for life.

    A lot of our blokes that were initially killed (during herrick 4 in 2006 and onwards to herrick 8 in 2008) could have been saved had we been allowed to shoot people that looked a bit dodgy or were doing stuff that was a bit suspect.

    I haven't seen that video and I'm not going to watch it but bear in mind that unless you have been to war, seen your mates get blown up and then had to carry them to a hls to be taken home you can't really comment.
    Why aren't you going to watch it? You talk as if you have experience of this.
  • KTM 5 Apr 2010 21:53:58 1,674 posts
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    wafflemaker wrote:
    KTM wrote:

    Why aren't you going to watch it? You talk as if you have experience of this.

    I'm not going to watch it as I'm posting from an iPhone and I'm in bed.
  • wafflemaker 5 Apr 2010 21:54:36 238 posts
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    Fair enough.
  • DodgyPast 5 Apr 2010 22:01:07 8,479 posts
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    How do you think the Iraqis react to their mates being blown up?

    At least when your mates are troops they signed up for it... horrific yes but an understandable risk they had control over, vs. for the Iraqis the fact that so often it is innocents struggling to survive in a country that has been blown to fuck and back by a bunch of foreigners for things they had no control over.

    Anyone losing their life is horrific, but military personnel pulling the 'you can't understand unless you were out there' card is a bit of a strawman.
  • KTM 5 Apr 2010 22:16:16 1,674 posts
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    The majority of Afghan people are killed by other Afghan and Islamic people. Not by western soldiers.

    I'm sure they react the same way that we do to a close friend dying but if you could stop your own mates getting hurt what would you do?

    Nobody knows what it's like unless they've been. I see people with no arms, no legs, no sight or a mixture of the three every day. I have friends that have had to scrape up what's left of their mate to send him home to his wife and kids. I have friends that have had to wipe the mist that was, 5 seconds before, their mate out of their eyes so the can find out what the fuck just happened.

    If you could stop that kind of stuff happening to your mates would you do what ever you had to?

    Soldiers don't ask for much really, they know they chose to do their job. But you can give them a fucking break because you don't know and unless you want to find out for yourself what it is like just accept that bad stuff happens and it's easy to pass judgment after the event but it's a completely different ball game when you're in the moment with only one pair of eyes to see with and one mind to decide with.
  • PES_Fanboy 5 Apr 2010 22:18:02 16,480 posts
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    I *really* think you should watch the video, and then come back and decide to defend it or not.
  • meggsy 5 Apr 2010 22:20:07 1,628 posts
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    I'm surprised those trigger-happy cunts didn't open fire on their friendly troops on the ground.

    "Uhhh, bushmaster six..this is crazyhorse one eight...militants attempting to evacuate surviving children for medical assistance, are we cleared to engage?..."

    3DS: 3454-0647-5991

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