The **Official** Aliens: Colonial Marines Thread Page 2

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  • smoothpete 18 Feb 2008 16:15:06 31,343 posts
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    'zactly
  • pjmaybe 18 Feb 2008 16:15:42 70,676 posts
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    I don't get why people have a problem with a cover or at least a "softly softly catchee Alien-y" approach in the game.

    For instance, when the marines first go into the area under the reactor core, did they run full pelt into the thing guns blazing? No, they slowed it down, used motion trackers and scoped out the area first.

    Similarly - when they first enter Hadley's Hope - did they again just run full pelt into the building not "checking their corners" etc?

    Nope.

    So why all the fuss about the game having the ability to move your character realistically and not just charge around like a muscle-bound Serious Sam clone, just blowing the fuck out of everything that moves. Save that for when the things start coming out of the goddamned walls!

    What you lot are asking for is Doom with Aliens. What I'm after is something a bit more subtle. R6V / GRAW with Aliens.

  • pjmaybe 18 Feb 2008 16:18:21 70,676 posts
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    Same goes for the "well educated" oxford scum Harry :)

    That and Die Hard Triology.

    Anyway, I guess at a pinch I'd settle for something like Alien Trilogy. But I can't help but think that there are FPS players who just like mindless killing, and there are tactical players who prefer to watch mayhem ensue while the cannon fodder are getting scoffed to shit, and hang back a little in cover waiting for their moment of glory (or a pair of sprung-steel jaws through the back of the helmet, more likely)
  • Deleted user 18 February 2008 16:20:43
    pjmaybe wrote:
    I don't get why people have a problem with a cover or at least a "softly softly catchee Alien-y" approach in the game.
    It just seems like lazy design really. Why press a button to cover when you could just crouch behind it or just strafe out or whatever? It just seems to slow the game down too much.
  • smoothpete 18 Feb 2008 16:21:14 31,343 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    I don't get why people have a problem with a cover or at least a "softly softly catchee Alien-y" approach in the game.

    For instance, when the marines first go into the area under the reactor core, did they run full pelt into the thing guns blazing? No, they slowed it down, used motion trackers and scoped out the area first.

    Similarly - when they first enter Hadley's Hope - did they again just run full pelt into the building not "checking their corners" etc?

    Nope.

    So why all the fuss about the game having the ability to move your character realistically and not just charge around like a muscle-bound Serious Sam clone, just blowing the fuck out of everything that moves. Save that for when the things start coming out of the goddamned walls!

    What you lot are asking for is Doom with Aliens. What I'm after is something a bit more subtle. R6V / GRAW with Aliens.

    But what are you taking cover from?

    GRAW - enemies also behind cover, shooting at you

    RS:V - enemies also behind cover, shooting at you

    Aliens don't do this. They will flank you at best, certainly ambush you, run at you going "eeeEEEEEEEEEE", all that. Cover would be no fucking use whatsoever

    You're saying that unless there was cover, it's going to be all run and gun, gung ho which is a blatant straw man, no-one has said that. To have a careful approach is perfectly fine without a cover system. Checking corners? That doesn't require cover, just pop out and look.
  • Whizzo 18 Feb 2008 16:22:03 43,036 posts
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    Well implementing cover RSV style would be fine, you're in cover unless you release left trigger, takes no time at all to get in and out.

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  • phAge 18 Feb 2008 16:22:14 24,337 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    I don't get why people have a problem with a cover or at least a "softly softly catchee Alien-y" approach in the game.

    For instance, when the marines first go into the area under the reactor core, did they run full pelt into the thing guns blazing? No, they slowed it down, used motion trackers and scoped out the area first.

    Similarly - when they first enter Hadley's Hope - did they again just run full pelt into the building not "checking their corners" etc?

    Nope.

    So why all the fuss about the game having the ability to move your character realistically and not just charge around like a muscle-bound Serious Sam clone, just blowing the fuck out of everything that moves. Save that for when the things start coming out of the goddamned walls!

    What you lot are asking for is Doom with Aliens. What I'm after is something a bit more subtle. R6V / GRAW with Aliens.

    I don't mind taking it slow (...) when the situation requires it, but if you want to implement a cover system, you either do it throughout, or not at all - and the very last thing I want in a frantic gunfight with aliens everywhere is to worry about snapping to cover, sticking to walls etc. etc. The original AvP didn't have a cover system, and if there was one thing that didn't work in that game, it was going in all guns blazing. What is the problem with just, y'know, moving from cover to cover, crouching where necessary?

    In short: the possible annoyance-factor of a cover system far, far outweighs the few situations where it would be cool to have your character use cover properly, Gears-stylee. IMHO.
  • pjmaybe 18 Feb 2008 16:23:09 70,676 posts
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    disussedgenius wrote:
    pjmaybe wrote:
    I don't get why people have a problem with a cover or at least a "softly softly catchee Alien-y" approach in the game.
    It just seems like lazy design really. Why press a button to cover when you could just crouch behind it or just strafe out or whatever? It just seems to slow the game down too much.

    Perhaps this is what I want rather than the Gears of War "Hit a button" approach. As I said, R6V had an absolutely perfect cover system. Approach the corner of cover (or duck below it) and just pop up to pop shots off.

    Gears of War ruined the cover dynamic completely so anything avoiding that style of cover would be just fine with me.

  • Whizzo 18 Feb 2008 16:24:44 43,036 posts
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    smoothpete wrote:
    But what are you taking cover from?
    Er it's also making better use of limited space, two people leaning around corners at a t-junction don't get in each others way or LOF.

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  • StarchildHypocrethes 18 Feb 2008 16:26:40 25,425 posts
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    Aye, can see what Pete is saying here, there isn't really anything you'd need to take cover from. A game can still be a slower paced, tense 'em up without reverting to a cover system.

    STALKER had me checking corners (and also my pants) on numerous occassions without requiring a cover system.
  • pjmaybe 18 Feb 2008 16:27:11 70,676 posts
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    Sounds like two trains of thought though.

    PhAge and Pete seem to want a toe-to-toe shooter.

    Me and Whizzo seem to want something a touch more tactical.

    What we'll all get is probably "Time Crisis with aliens" at best :)
  • Deleted user 18 February 2008 16:27:14
    pjmaybe wrote:
    Perhaps this is what I want rather than the Gears of War "Hit a button" approach. As I said, R6V had an absolutely perfect cover system. Approach the corner of cover (or duck below it) and just pop up to pop shots off.

    Gears of War ruined the cover dynamic completely so anything avoiding that style of cover would be just fine with me.
    Ah right, gotcha. Well that would make sense more, though I though that this was pretty standard nowadays. Saying that; I haven't played an FPS properly for a long time (until last week when my new PC came and I got to have a blast on the Crysis demo that is - all on full detail as well! \0/) so maybe you have a point.
  • smoothpete 18 Feb 2008 16:28:12 31,343 posts
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    That's a very specific example Whizzo.

    I also think that if it's an FPS, keep it in the first person. I dislike games that do that 3rd person switch, it breaks the suspension of disbelief. And seeing as this will be (hopefully) nicely involving and atmospheric, anything that can be done to maintain the immersion should damn well be done.
  • phAge 18 Feb 2008 16:28:55 24,337 posts
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    Again - they simply don't do this in the movies. At all. Both when entering Hadleys Hope, and when down in the reactor, everybody stays in the middle of corridors. Sure, they advance slowly and check 360 at all times, but at no point do they "take cover". Not even when the aliens burst into the ops center do the marines bother with cover, but simply concentrate on kiling aliens as quickly as possible.

    I cant help but think that a cover-system, no matter how its implemented, will make Colonial Marines more Rainbow 6 vs. Aliens, than a proper Aliens-game.
  • pjmaybe 18 Feb 2008 16:29:19 70,676 posts
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    Crysis didn't have it (and there were times where I wish it had)

    COD4 didn't have it.

    COD4 was manageable because (thankfully) you could at least see where you were being shot from most of the time, but in the single player campaign there were so many instances where I thought it would've been ace to be able to poke my head out from under cover and just loose off a couple of shots blindly.

    As I keep saying, Rainbow Six Vegas had pretty much what I want here - the option to use it if you wanted to - but of course you could get through the whole of R6 V without using it once if you so wanted...

  • pjmaybe 18 Feb 2008 16:30:41 70,676 posts
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    smoothpete wrote:
    That's a very specific example Whizzo.

    I also think that if it's an FPS, keep it in the first person. I dislike games that do that 3rd person switch, it breaks the suspension of disbelief. And seeing as this will be (hopefully) nicely involving and atmospheric, anything that can be done to maintain the immersion should damn well be done.

    I'd agree with that on the principle that the art team spend a LONG LONG TIME looking at their own arms holding a gun.

    And not..

    http://static.flickr.com/24/58703898_a26dc38ea2.jpg

    :)
  • Whizzo 18 Feb 2008 16:30:58 43,036 posts
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    smoothpete wrote:
    That's a very specific example Whizzo.
    One of which that happens in lots of FPS games that don't have anyway of taking cover.

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  • Deleted user 18 February 2008 16:31:11
    pjmaybe wrote:
    Crysis didn't have it (and there were times where I wish it had)
    Huh? I crouch behind a rock = I don't get shot.

    What are you talking about?
  • phAge 18 Feb 2008 16:31:42 24,337 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    Sounds like two trains of thought though.

    PhAge and Pete seem to want a toe-to-toe shooter.

    Me and Whizzo seem to want something a touch more tactical.

    What we'll all get is probably "Time Crisis with aliens" at best :)
    But, but... Aliens isn't about being tactical. You saw firsthand what happened when the team tried to pull back, using incinerators to lay down a suppressive curtain of fire, etc. etc. Total pwnage. If you want to be true to the nature of aliens, you can't have a cover system, as this will slow down the game to a point where the aliens will have to be gimped if the player is to stand a chance.

    Like I said. :)
  • smoothpete 18 Feb 2008 16:32:04 31,343 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    Me and Whizzo seem to want something a touch more tactical.
    But peej! They're aliens! They run at you going EeeeEEEEEEEEE and then eat your brains out with their little tongues with mouths on!

    None of the Alien films, not one, had any shooty tactics in it.

    Look at the smart guns, the aliens charged them and charged them until they (eventually) gave up and tried something else. Not a very tactical creature!

    Their tactics are:

    a) go "EeeeeeEEEEEEE"
    b) pretend to be walls
    c) bring a lot of mates

    :p
  • pjmaybe 18 Feb 2008 16:32:11 70,676 posts
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    So you basically just want time crisis with aliens then.



  • Deleted user 18 February 2008 16:33:39
    Didn't Time Crisis pretty much invent the cover system?
  • pjmaybe 18 Feb 2008 16:33:53 70,676 posts
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    disussedgenius wrote:
    pjmaybe wrote:
    Crysis didn't have it (and there were times where I wish it had)
    Huh? I crouch behind a rock = I don't get shot.

    What are you talking about?

    YES it had crouching. NO it didn't have the ability to crouch behind a surface and snap the gun out to loose off a few shots.

    Alright, this is getting into one of those pointless arguments about who wants what. Mindless shooters are about as dull as it gets so if it does go down that route (and I suspect it might) then it'll save me a few quid I guess...
  • phAge 18 Feb 2008 16:34:16 24,337 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    So you basically just want time crisis with aliens then.



    No - he (and I) want a game that is true to the movies. You want Aliens Vs. Marines: Vegas. :)
  • UncleLou Moderator 18 Feb 2008 16:34:40 35,427 posts
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    I am with smoothpete, I don't see the need, or how it would be a benefit at all. Taking cover from something that doesn't shoot is pretty useless. A lean function to look around corners, ok, but an R6-style cover system in a game where you fight Aliens is a bit of a strange concept.

  • pjmaybe 18 Feb 2008 16:35:44 70,676 posts
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    phAge wrote:
    pjmaybe wrote:
    So you basically just want time crisis with aliens then.



    No - he (and I) want a game that is true to the movies. You want Aliens Vs. Marines: Vegas. :)

    So wait, you want a game where you all end up dead except the annoying brat, the she-man and an acid-scarred husk that used to be the Second Lieutenant!

    Why not just go the whole hog and base it on the third film :)
  • Deleted user 18 February 2008 16:35:45
    Turn based Aliens using the Silent Storm engine.

    Every single game should use the Silent Storm engine, really.
  • phAge 18 Feb 2008 16:36:09 24,337 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    YES it had crouching. NO it didn't have the ability to crouch behind a surface and snap the gun out to loose off a few shots.
    And what good would snapping off a few shots do you against an onrushing alien horde? Unless, of course, the aliens had been severely gimped...
  • pjmaybe 18 Feb 2008 16:37:08 70,676 posts
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    phAge wrote:
    pjmaybe wrote:
    YES it had crouching. NO it didn't have the ability to crouch behind a surface and snap the gun out to loose off a few shots.
    And what good would snapping off a few shots do you against an onrushing alien horde? Unles, of cours, the aliens had been severely gimped...

    This is Gearbox / Sega we're talking about. If you have any misconception that the aliens will actually have AI and not just be pop up targets to shoot at, then I think you're in for a slight disappointment.

  • smoothpete 18 Feb 2008 16:38:12 31,343 posts
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    On the plus side, this is the first time in ages where I've given enough of a shit about a game to actually discuss it / argue about it. That's got to be good :)
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