The **Official** Aliens: Colonial Marines Thread Page 55

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  • bad09 27 Feb 2013 11:31:31 6,255 posts
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    BillCityfingers wrote:
    Plus to mention the fact that you don't pay forty quid to see a film. I would personally feel worse about a bad game than a bad film as I paid four times as much.
    Yeah, you see a bad film, buy a duff album, read a boring book you simply shrug it off. You buy a bad game and you are quite a bit out of pocket and therefore more resentful, not to mention on one platform these days you can't even recoup some of the money you wasted.

    Of course on the flip side the increased cost of gaming means you should ensure you are a more informed consumer. Unfortunately quite the opposite happens in this expensive medium.
  • Triggerhappytel 27 Feb 2013 11:36:29 2,695 posts
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    I don't think the backlash of this has really been over the top. For one thing, you're putting down 40 for a game so it's a much more expensive hobby than films or an equivalent. I guess it's similar to going to see a band who put on a really shit, half arsed performance, or seeing an awesome trailer for a film like, say, Aliens vs Predator, but when you go to see it the film is actually Alien vs Hunter and the footage from the trailer is nowhere to be seen.

    I think most of the problem in this whole situation has stemmed from how badly Gearbox have handled it. Had they just held their hands up and said sorry, and promised to patch the game as much as possible and release some much better SP DLC for free, I think that would have calmed a lot of people. But their continued deceit and lack of engagement and pointing the finger of blame is just childish and pathetic and insulting.

    Edited by Triggerhappytel at 11:37:04 27-02-2013
  • Triggerhappytel 27 Feb 2013 11:38:57 2,695 posts
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    I'm not suggesting Aliens vs Predator is a good film by the way - I thought it was shite. Just seemed like an apt comparison :)
  • colinmac 27 Feb 2013 12:02:43 736 posts
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    Listen I've been buying games for 25 years, I'm not daft. Generally, I preorder to receive on day of release a title I'm looking forward to.

    It saves a battle into the city, parking, blah blah. (I've done this before only to find a title sold out!)

    Also a preordered title is generally a little cheaper, which also is an additional incentive. So my order had been actually paid for several days before the title was due for release. I DID expect to see reviews of it before the actual DAY OF RELEASE, but I can't see into the future.

    The existence of Embargo's aren't public knowledge, so there's no way to know if the lack of review is done to one, or whether its just a busy week, so saying 'It's your tough luck for being stupid for pre-ordering' is a little harsh. I'd like a little more transparency from EG - ie 'sorry the review is coming but we can't yet' would have made me far more cautious.

    I rely greatly on reviews and this has soured me of both the publishers tactics, but also the whole 'embargo' process.

    No point in reading a review of a game you've already bought is there ?

    I'll be less keen to pre-order in future, yes, but then I'll be less keen to purchase at full price also. So there's harm for publishers both ways, I guess...

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  • colinmac 27 Feb 2013 12:08:25 736 posts
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    Actually I'd like to see a little more on the whole proces of review Embargo...

    It all seems a little (actually a lot) suspicious to me. Dodgy, if you will.

    How often are they put in place? How do the publishers actually enfore them? Are the instructions whispered furtively, or openly written word?

    Control of the press. By corporations. Bad form.

    Do journalists fight back? Resist?

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  • Deleted user 27 February 2013 12:13:37
    Exactly, in my (albeit suspicious mind) the only reason for having a review embargo is because the dev / publisher knows the game is utter wank. Why else would you want to stop reviews going out?
  • bad09 27 Feb 2013 12:18:28 6,255 posts
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    colinmac wrote: saying 'It's your tough luck for being stupid for pre-ordering' is a little harsh
    Sadly it's not harsh at all, if you buy on faith that publishers and gaming press don't work together (which they do most of the time as publishers give them the content you read) it is very much tough luck for you. I see your reasons for pre-ordering and many bounce those reasons out but the industry saw the reasons for pre-ordering and realised it was a great tool to dupe people.

    You think publishers are encouraging the practice so much for nothing? You think they want you to do it for your benefit? You think you get carrots dangled in your face for nothing?

    Edited by bad09 at 12:19:23 27-02-2013
  • colinmac 27 Feb 2013 12:28:18 736 posts
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    I hardly think that pre-ordering to receive on day of release is 'carrots'

    Sure, if I was pre-ordering to receive in-game additions or some such drivel.

    Doesn't mean I should accept the fact that my trusted review site is gagged so readily. Don't really see why any customer should. Most reviews appear some days before the release of a title. Especially a big one.

    I mostly have seen review embargo's to prevent too-early reviews going up - not exactly the same as 'nothing until day of release please and customers are already buying it, as it'll crucify our sales'

    Can you give another example quite so cynically hushed?

    Live: Colinmac
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  • YenRug 27 Feb 2013 12:38:59 2,438 posts
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    I think this would be a good situation where videogame journalists agree, across the board, to publish embargo details: No comments about the game, so as to avoid accidentally breaching NDA's, just a simple post of:

    Game "X"

    Release Date: xx/xx/20xx
    Online Embargo: xx/xx/20xx
    Print Embargo: xx/xx/20xx

    Potentially, publishers could try to write into contracts that embargo dates were part of the NDA, but if everyone published them then they would find it hard to make it stick. At least, this way, people would be better informed and publishers would have to think long and hard about how well they can screw over their customers.
  • colinmac 27 Feb 2013 12:47:16 736 posts
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    Couldn't agree more.

    It's funny how the general opinion of readers here seems to be 'its the role of the games site to be the 'publishers tool' as opposed to helping said publisher whip up enthusiasm for the next big game.

    If I thought that way, I'd not be interested in reviews. However, I trust EG's (and select others of course) opinions often on games, and don't expect them to be a cynical marketing site. (Which they aren't.)

    It's all the more jarring when something like this happens.

    I couldn't, in this instance, give two hoots about the actual title - I've already traded the game in - nor do I really care that I got stung for 20 for four shoddy levels that I played before trading - I care far more about my favourite site looking like it's part of the whole cynical marketing exercise... Which I am disappointed by.

    Live: Colinmac
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  • bad09 27 Feb 2013 12:48:30 6,255 posts
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    @colinmac

    I don't pre-order so personally I don't care about a review embargo so can't think of another of the top of my head but there are many times when reviews hit when games are already dispatching as I read people say "mines already coming" or "it's great I wonder what the review will think" etc.

    But it's just not via embargo anyway. Look at Tomb Raider, a couple refused to review because of the NDA they were required to sign. Now we don't know what was in that NDA but all reviews were suspiciously above 8 and EGs own review pretty much slated the game for the most part then slapped an 8 on the end. Did Square Enix want to ensure the Metacritic score did well? Who knows but it's possible.

    I think you need to realise (and I'm amazed people still don't understand this) gaming press is not there to inform you of your buying choices. It's there to promote games for the industry. ALL gaming press is untrustworthy when it comes to reviews they rely on the industry too much, for not only content to give to us but also for ad revenue, so are not 100% transparent even if they claim they are. You should not, I repeat, SHOULD NOT base your buying habits on gaming press. Hell in this day and age of industry plants (it actually happens I'm afraid) you can't trust those posters saying "wow this game is great". Games selling and PR is, and always has been, smoke and mirrors.

    Buy on what you think you may like, wait and research the game after release, watch footage read as much feedback from different sources then make up your own mind. If you get burned after that there is no one to blame but yourself. There is no such thing as a "trusted" review, even if it is an honest review it may not be a review you agree with if you play the game.

    Edited by bad09 at 12:50:26 27-02-2013
  • FatsoJetson 27 Feb 2013 12:55:38 309 posts
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    @YenRug "Sunshine is the best disinfectant," as they say in the USA.

    I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with embargoes, so long as people know what the deal is.

    In movies it's commonly accepted that a film that is not shown to the press before release is going to be a turd. That's what needs to happen with games.
  • SomaticSense 27 Feb 2013 12:58:46 9,147 posts
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    Simple rule, and one I've followed (successfully) for years now.

    Don't buy a game with a pre-launch review embargo.
  • colinmac 27 Feb 2013 13:10:19 736 posts
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    I hear what you say. And I can respect it as an opinion.

    But I think a great deal of the full time contributors to this site would take issue with it. Reviewing is pointless task unless your readership respects it. And a site with regular repeat visitors lives or dies by it, ad revenue or not.

    That said, I'm prepared to admit I'm not cynical enough about it all. I'll try and do better!

    (that said if the games industry controlled the press as extensively as you suggest, there'd only ever be good shiny reviews of everything.. and no need for these dodgy embargo's!)

    Edited by colinmac at 13:10:44 27-02-2013

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  • colinmac 27 Feb 2013 13:13:27 736 posts
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    SomaticSense wrote:
    Simple rule, and one I've followed (successfully) for years now.

    Don't buy a game with a pre-launch review embargo.
    Seems sensible, but how do I determine whether a game has one ? And how long do I wait for a review to appear before ordering. This is the problem I have with this model of selection.

    Live: Colinmac
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  • YenRug 27 Feb 2013 13:15:08 2,438 posts
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    @FatsoJetson I didn't mean to imply there was anything inherently wrong with embargoes, either, as they do have a purpose, i.e. making sure no one site jumps the gun and releases their review before everyone else; it's when embargoes are used to exploit a situation, such as this one, that it would help with.
  • FatsoJetson 27 Feb 2013 13:18:59 309 posts
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    @YenRug Agreed.
  • ecu 27 Feb 2013 13:19:04 77,313 posts
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    colinmac wrote:so saying 'It's your tough luck for being stupid for pre-ordering' is a little harsh.
    Sorry man, it really isn't harsh. So the blame has now shifted to the embargo? I don't see what that has to do with anything. It's the gamers' desire to get the product on day one that's the problem. If you don't want to go in to the city and park your car to buy the game, you can still order it online. Wait until the weekend is over and wait for reviews and reactions before you place your order, you don't need the game on your doorstep on Friday morning.

    People are so desperate to get the game asap, and then they get angry when the game is rubbish and they wasted 40. Buying this game is not compulsory. You are the only person to blame in this situation, take responsibility for it.
  • SomaticSense 27 Feb 2013 13:23:05 9,147 posts
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    colinmac wrote:
    SomaticSense wrote:
    Simple rule, and one I've followed (successfully) for years now.

    Don't buy a game with a pre-launch review embargo.
    Seems sensible, but how do I determine whether a game has one ? And how long do I wait for a review to appear before ordering. This is the problem I have with this model of selection.
    Browsing forums is a great way of finding that stuff out, including this one. We are lucky in that embargos are usually for US release dates, which are a Tuesday 99% of the time, and before EU sites have completed our preorders and shipped the game. Giving us plenty of time to cancel.
  • ecu 27 Feb 2013 13:28:50 77,313 posts
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    Simply rule is to not place your order until you've seen a review.
  • SomaticSense 27 Feb 2013 13:29:15 9,147 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    colinmac wrote:so saying 'It's your tough luck for being stupid for pre-ordering' is a little harsh.
    Sorry man, it really isn't harsh. So the blame has now shifted to the embargo? I don't see what that has to do with anything. It's the gamers' desire to get the product on day one that's the problem. If you don't want to go in to the city and park your car to buy the game, you can still order it online. Wait until the weekend is over and wait for reviews and reactions before you place your order, you don't need the game on your doorstep on Friday morning.

    People are so desperate to get the game asap, and then they get angry when the game is rubbish and they wasted 40. Buying this game is not compulsory. You are the only person to blame in this situation, take responsibility for it.
    It is harsh. But it's also true I'm afraid.

    It's very, very rare that a game will sell out in the first few days. Only Xenoblade I had problems getting hold of this gen, and that was a niche Japanese game which had built up crazily positive word of mouth just before release and before Nintendo could catch up with demand. Very unique circumstances in other words.
  • Triggerhappytel 27 Feb 2013 13:29:24 2,695 posts
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    I only pre-order games I know are sure things. In the next few months I'll be getting God of War Ascension (provided the demo is good) and The Last of Us. Both from developers I respect and trust. Even BioShock Infinite, as good as it looks, could be disappointing IMO as it seems to have had a very troubled development.
  • colinmac 27 Feb 2013 13:29:31 736 posts
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    To be fair, I did read somewhere that there was an embargo on this title - and this very forum had a lot of wary posts, which is understandable. I couldn't remember which forum I'd seen mention of it, and so didn't pay enough heed.

    Good point though. I'll certainly avoid any titles with this sort of muttering in future.

    Trouble is it'll just force publishers to be even more sneaky eh ?

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  • colinmac 27 Feb 2013 13:30:47 736 posts
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    The fall out over the Gearbox / subcontractor developers is interesting though..

    :)

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  • SomaticSense 27 Feb 2013 13:31:52 9,147 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    Simply rule is to not place your order until you've seen a review.
    Which in itself may have been paid for.

    Basing a 40 purchase on one review nowadays would be a staggeringly idiotic thing to do.
  • Triggerhappytel 27 Feb 2013 13:33:27 2,695 posts
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    For what it's worth, has there been another game which has been in a similar situation to Aliens: Colonial Marines? A big brand from a popular developer (albeit with one shoddy release to their name) with such a long and troubled development and pre-release footage which turned out to be a total fabrication. I can't think of one. I'd say a lot of Aliens was sold on the strength of that demo, but it was completely unrepresentative of the finished product.
  • SomaticSense 27 Feb 2013 13:36:49 9,147 posts
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    colinmac wrote:
    The fall out over the Gearbox / subcontractor developers is interesting though..

    :)
    Indeed. I'd actually love to read the book should anyone write one. I'd love for a proper Making Of article or retrospective from the horse's mouth once it all dies down.
  • THFourteen 27 Feb 2013 13:43:02 34,470 posts
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    SomaticSense wrote:It's very, very rare that a game will sell out in the first few days. Only Xenoblade I had problems getting hold of this gen, and that was a niche Japanese game which had built up crazily positive word of mouth just before release and before Nintendo could catch up with demand. Very unique circumstances in other words.
    The only ones i've had problems with were GTA4 (360) and Mario Kart (Wii - yes i did buy a Wii game once!!!)

    With both of those ended up having to hunt around central London until i found one in a random Argos in Old Street.. Shoulda just preordered.
  • Ultrasoundwave 27 Feb 2013 13:45:10 3,411 posts
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    Dammit people!

    I've said it time and time again - this has to be on every page :

    "The worst part is, I'll have to have the break-up sex with myself!"

  • colinmac 27 Feb 2013 13:48:24 736 posts
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    Do you think that's motion-capture at work ? I hope so, worth a giggle - can't help thinking about what sort of monster noise he musta been making.

    Gnnnnannaaaaaarrrrrrr.

    Sadly, it doesn't actually look it. Coupla mouse clicks more like....

    Live: Colinmac
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