Question Time Page 20

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  • Chopsen 1 Mar 2012 23:12:24 15,833 posts
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    That's not racist. He's saying whites are just the same as blacks. He's channelling Michael Jackson.
  • Dreamcast_Luvr 1 Mar 2012 23:13:36 145 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    "What's happened is that a substantial section of the Chavs that you wrote about have become black. The whites have become black. A particular sort of violent, destructive, nihilistic, gangster culture has become the fashion. And black and white, boy and girl, operate in this language together, this language which is wholly false, which is this Jamaican patois that's been intruded in England, and this is why so many of us have this sense of literally a foreign country."

    Ah I see .. Not really saying all black people are violent thugs is it ? And he had a point actually as un PC as it might be to say it.
  • spamdangled 1 Mar 2012 23:17:23 27,276 posts
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    He's calling black culture destructive and nihilistic, saying white people "have become black" as if it's a bad thing. He prefaced that rant by invoking the famous racist Enoch Powell.

    Did you seriously miss this? It was a big news piece at the time last year.

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  • Dreamcast_Luvr 1 Mar 2012 23:26:37 145 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    He's calling black culture destructive and nihilistic, saying white people "have become black" as if it's a bad thing. He prefaced that rant by invoking the famous racist Enoch Powell.

    Did you seriously miss this? It was a big news piece at the time last year.

    I obviously read much more about it than you. You know very well what he's referring to. There is a culture among SOME ( please note that word ) black men where they gravitate toward the gangsta lifestyle , that's why Trident exists and we don't have something similar for people of Pakistani or Chinese origin. He was right in saying some young white males gravitate towards it too , I know , I've seen and met them and other people reading this will have too.

    I don't mean to be rude but you come across as someone with at best little real life experience. His comments werent particularly shocking to most people outside the media I suspect.
  • spamdangled 1 Mar 2012 23:30:23 27,276 posts
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    Dreamcast_Luvr wrote:

    I obviously read much more about it than you. You know very well what he's referring to. There is a culture among SOME ( please note that word ) black men where they gravitate toward the gangsta lifestyle
    And that is gang culture, not black culture. Gangs exist among white people too, you know. But no, he equates it all with black people by labelling that style of behaviour as "black culture". And then he makes the odd claim about Jamaican Patois "intruding" among white people.

    He's spent the entire episode of Question Time tonight insulting women, insulting the audience members (twice now). And he just made another remarkably racist claim about people in the middle east.

    EDIT: Three members insulted now.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 23:35:40 01-03-2012

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  • Chopsen 1 Mar 2012 23:33:28 15,833 posts
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    No idea what's happening on that show, but if I was on Question Time I would absolutely insult the audience. They're idiots.
  • MightyMouse 1 Mar 2012 23:34:46 1,127 posts
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    I think one problem with Question Time is that the politicians tend to give such smarmy, evasive answers that David Starkey is almost a relief as a cliched racist, sexist fool.

    Edit: The problem is of course, that the things he says are flat-out lies and he's never called on these.

    Edited by MightyMouse at 23:36:44 01-03-2012
  • thelzdking 1 Mar 2012 23:34:54 4,357 posts
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    @Chopsen

    Often the panel is as well.

    Edited by thelzdking at 23:35:16 01-03-2012
  • Dreamcast_Luvr 1 Mar 2012 23:35:04 145 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Dreamcast_Luvr wrote:

    I obviously read much more about it than you. You know very well what he's referring to. There is a culture among SOME ( please note that word ) black men where they gravitate toward the gangsta lifestyle
    And that is gang culture, not black culture. Gangs exist among white people too, you know. But no, he equates it all with black people by labelling that style of behaviour as "black culture". And then he makes the odd claim about Jamaican Patois.

    He's spent the entire episode of Question Time tonight insulting women, insulting the audience members (twice now). And he just made another remarkably racist claim about people in the middle east.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 23:31:37 01-03-2012

    Well at least it makes for a lively question time kiddo eh ? :)
  • spamdangled 1 Mar 2012 23:37:04 27,276 posts
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    Lively yes. Very much "oh my god", shout at the telly material.

    I did love the bit where he started ranting about how he was gay, as if that somehow made him immune to being prejudiced.

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  • StarchildHypocrethes 1 Mar 2012 23:39:14 25,516 posts
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    I thought he was a highly entertaining and interesting panelist.

    A lack of hand wringing probably allowed me to see the screen better.
  • Chopsen 1 Mar 2012 23:39:49 15,833 posts
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    It's weird cos the same basic format and pretty much the same kind of people seem to work ok on Radio 4's Any Questions, but transfer it to TV and it's like a competition as to who can say the most retarded soundbite (audience and panel alike)
  • Dreamcast_Luvr 1 Mar 2012 23:40:27 145 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Lively yes. Very much "oh my god", shout at the telly material.

    I did love the bit where he started ranting about how he was gay, as if that somehow made him immune to being prejudiced.
    I only saw the first twenty minutes so am in no position to defend Reichs Fuhrer Starkey !
  • Chopsen 1 Mar 2012 23:52:12 15,833 posts
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    Maybe the problem with QT is due to something Karl Popper said: "it is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood: there will always be some who misunderstand you."

    So people who live and die career wise with what they say on a daily basis have to either restrict themselves to the banal or the obvious.

    Anybody who has the audacity to actually express an opinion it jumped up and torn to shreds because, hey, there's fuck all else to talk about, what with everybody spouting various shades of beige.

    Everybody just talks like they're on Miss Word. I pray for world peace, why can't we just get along? Fucksakes, have a meaningful opinion, say something that actually means something. Propose something real and achievable and tangible. If I hear one more pointless political platitude I shall endeavour to maintain the kind of standards that we all would expect in such circumstances.
  • MightyMouse 2 Mar 2012 00:10:00 1,127 posts
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    Whilst I can see that for senior politicians it's not necessarily worth the risk to say much on something like QT - where they can't scrutinize everything they could say to make sure it's 'safe' - most panel members seem hamstrung by just not having any grasp of the relevant facts. The only time I've seen a panellist actually be able to cite data, Dimbleby was amazed. Since none of them can back up their arguments they don't really say anything.
  • Kami 2 Mar 2012 04:00:29 2,427 posts
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    David Starkey is always a hoot. He makes good points most of the time, but by damn does he make a meal out of the journey getting to them! It's slightly comical watching him make such a hash of it.

    I would have loved to take him on over the whole "blame Labour" thing. The problem is the Tories and LibDems had a good couple of years of this now, and it, speaking personally, bores me rigid. It's symptomatic of the absolution of responsibility that has gotten us into this mess - the whole 'No, it's not our fault! It's theirs! We're trying! Honest!'

    How about they stop trying, accept their portion of the blame and do something about it, rather than wheeling out the same sodding lines week after week after sodding week on Question Time. It's a stuck record and we can all see through it. The deficit has gone UP, not down. We're in a more precarious and dodgy economic state than we were two years ago. There's no attempt to batten down the hatches - it is only a matter of time before the Euro fiasco catches up with the world and falls flat on its face, and why is that happening? Oh right, the absolution of responsibility. Not their fault, world changing, bad stuff, boo freaking hoo.

    This is something that the ConDem alliance need to accept, and then they can take steps to put things right. As long as they keep trying to absolve themselves of blame, they're not facing the facts that are screaming at them loud in the face - that things aren't getting better under them, and we're all terrified of the consequences.

    Sadly, for any government, the whole "LALALAICAN'THEARYOULALALA!" thing can only end very, very badly...

    Master of Tekisuto No Kabe. *bows*
    And you're reading this why?!

  • HermanTheTosser 2 Mar 2012 06:35:02 82 posts
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    I love watching QT. Even though I find it almost insufferably frustrating and infuriating at times, it's gripping. I suppose I continue to watch it in the hope that someone's going to say something really controversial - just to see people's reactions. It's the first time I've seen Starkey on the programme and while I don't know a huge amount about the man, he was brilliant! His "people don't really want to be liberated" comments attracted the sort of shocked reaction I've been craving on the show - at least it did before he went on to qualify his statement.
  • Ka-blamo 2 Mar 2012 08:03:19 7,306 posts
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    Yeah, that was shocking...he then had a go at the french, saying they're shameful of being liberated and have created a liberation myth of their own to combat the shame.

    I didn't realise David was such an opinionated tart, entertaining but he really needs someone to call him out on his shit but I doubt he'd listen.

    Clarke Carlisle was very good I thought.
  • thedaveeyres 2 Mar 2012 08:31:03 10,809 posts
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    Starkey's a cunt.

    D****** ******r

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  • Chopsen 2 Mar 2012 08:40:50 15,833 posts
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    It's an entertainment programme, ultimately. Last time I watched it, they had some supermarket bigwig on there (CEO of Sainsburys iirc). His remuneration came up as a topic (in the context of the news story at the time of CEOs being paid too much). Some woman in the audience piped up and said her husband was a roofer and he could go up a roof with a load of heavy tiles, and she's sure the CEO of Sainsburys couldn't do that, so why should the CEO be paid so much and her husband be paid so much less?

    You just can't argue with stupidity like that.
  • X201 2 Mar 2012 09:26:11 15,228 posts
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    Ka-blamo wrote:
    Yeah, that was shocking...he then had a go at the french, saying they're shameful of being liberated and have created a liberation myth of their own to combat the shame.
    That points out the problem with Question Time and audience led debates in general. No one has time to to make a clear point, especially when you're trying to get you point across by means of a simile.

    Starky was basically saying, "The UK liberated France in WWII, have they shown us any gratitude for that? No. They've spent the last 50 years snubbing us in the EU and cosying up to other countries"

    He was trying to say something like that in order to draw a simile with Afghanistan and Iraq, saying that we shouldn't expect any thanks from the Syrian people if we liberate them from Assad.

    But people jumped down his throat before he had time to fully construct his point.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 2 Mar 2012 11:16:53 6,654 posts
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    To be fair though, the guy doesn't help himself. I mean, irrespective of whether the guy has a point or not, he's just pompous, preachy and rude.
  • Chopsen 2 Mar 2012 11:17:58 15,833 posts
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    ...which is probably why he's the go-to-guy to get an interesting talking head on such subjects, and he gets a fee for his appearances.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 2 Mar 2012 11:21:12 6,654 posts
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    True. Same with that woman who has short grey hair that writes a column for the daily mail. C

    Edited by bitch_tits_zero_nine at 11:21:49 02-03-2012
  • MetalDog 2 Mar 2012 11:21:26 23,697 posts
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    Starkey's problem has always been that his delivery style leaves you in no doubt that he thinks everyone in the world is a blithering idiot except him.

    Occasionally he makes a salient point, but it's usually so buried in his hubris and outdated view of the world that it's lost in the desire to wring his neck.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Chopsen 2 Mar 2012 11:25:52 15,833 posts
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    Thing is, most people *are* idiots. They are. There's no point pretending they're not, because it just perpetuates the problem.

    I've not really been paying attention to Starkey tbh, but anybody who just outright calls stupid people stupid probably has a point.
  • MetalDog 2 Mar 2012 11:28:56 23,697 posts
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    A lot of people are daft, yeah - but if you're daft yourself you're in no position to call them on it. Starkey's a fool 90% of the time, he's just too stupid to know he's stupid.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 2 Mar 2012 11:29:48 6,654 posts
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    Great when they clap polar opposite opinions sequentially.. Just like the group mentality jokes on the Simpsons.
  • El_MUERkO 2 Mar 2012 11:34:59 16,970 posts
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    I enjoy Starkey, at least he has a point to make, unlike the rest of them, talking a lot but saying nothing, meaning nothing, desperately trying to sound intelligent but in bursts short enough to be considered 'quotable' or 'soundbite' worthy.

    In his efforts to get his point across he oversimplifies and generalizes in ways that leave him open to Liverpool Syndrome, the faking of outrage and emotional distress so hard that they may fool themselves into believing it.

    "I have willfully misunderstood your point and I am OUTRAGED!!!"
  • muttler 2 Mar 2012 12:06:52 3,975 posts
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    I thought both the birds on Question Time last night were worth a shag.
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