Bioshock 2 Page 2

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  • Deleted user 8 January 2008 12:27:52
    In jest though the above may be, I really don't get the insecurity around the Bioshock haters. "Oh I musta be well dumb shut up you higher-than-thou fuck I went to the university of Life and I even got to meet Fray Bentos the President of Argentina"...

    Bioshock don't take any more brains than any other shooters. The underlying message is one that you could argue over intellectually but to get the message barely takes brains, and to get the game you don't need the message. You just need the story, which is superbly told.

    As for the gameplay, there was plenty of emergence, plenty of fun to be had, and if people played through with a wrench combo then that's their loss, like. I mean, I once, in Fort Frolic, had a "Big Daddy Farm". I had tonnes of them electronic bow things and basically I waited for B'daddies to fall into the trap, and three or four did. I took photos as they rushed towards me, hitting wire after wire, until they died at my feet, without me firing a bullet. I fucking loved that. I loved loads of things and most of them take no intellectual nous whatsoever.
  • LeoliansBro 8 Jan 2008 12:31:23 44,722 posts
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    'Sfunny, I take issue with people who defend a game for being highbrow and accuse everyone who didn't enjoy it as much as them of being stupid and not getting it.

    Especially if they throw obscure art deco book-cover references in to show how sophisticated they are ;)

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Deleted user 8 January 2008 12:31:55
    Leolian'sBro wrote:
    Henni_playd wrote:
    Leolian'sBro wrote: Remind me of those branching pathways, wide open spaces, shades of grey choices, and moments where the emphasis wasn't on endless tedious tape recorders lying about to provide 'depth'.

    That sentence makes little, if any, sense at all.

    It was a response to Retroid, who contradicted my claim that bioshock was a corridor shooter. I was asking him to back up his argument. Better?

    And it's not a 'cool' stance, it's a genuine opinion.

    It makes no sense at all, I suppose you can call it that. Insofar as the "corridor shooter" genre refers to Doom and Quake, you're plainly wrong, because Bioshock is not one of those games, but hey, you've a right to be wrong, just a bit rich to brag about it and assume you have a right to ask others to justify why your view is wrong, when you've barely said owt to justify it. Or owt that makes sense.
  • LeD 8 Jan 2008 12:32:47 6,314 posts
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    I have a weird relation to Bioshock, as in I'm finding it really superb from many points of view but I'm not actually enjoying playing it. I kinda have to force myself through it. Just a little too atmospheric and claustrophobic for me I think. I also thought it ruins some of the charm and mystery that everybody in the game seems to be a homicidal freak.
  • LeoliansBro 8 Jan 2008 12:34:45 44,722 posts
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    Henni_playd wrote:
    Leolian'sBro wrote:
    Henni_playd wrote:
    Leolian'sBro wrote: Remind me of those branching pathways, wide open spaces, shades of grey choices, and moments where the emphasis wasn't on endless tedious tape recorders lying about to provide 'depth'.

    That sentence makes little, if any, sense at all.

    It was a response to Retroid, who contradicted my claim that bioshock was a corridor shooter. I was asking him to back up his argument. Better?

    And it's not a 'cool' stance, it's a genuine opinion.

    It makes no sense at all, I suppose you can call it that. Insofar as the "corridor shooter" genre refers to Doom and Quake, you're plainly wrong, because Bioshock is not one of those games, but hey, you've a right to be wrong, just a bit rich to brag about it and assume you have a right to ask others to justify why your view is wrong, when you've barely said owt to justify it. Or owt that makes sense.

    Why are you getting cross about this. Surely we're allowed different opinions.

    It has corridors and guns. It has limited / no choice about what you do next. It is therefore a corridor shooter.

    And I'm wrong 'because Bioshock isn't one of those games' is hardly brimming with contextual evidence and proof itself, is it?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • agparrot 8 Jan 2008 12:38:51 11,903 posts
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    LeD wrote:
    I have a weird relation to Bioshock, as in I'm finding it really superb from many points of view but I'm not actually enjoying playing it. I kinda have to force myself through it. Just a little too atmospheric and claustrophobic for me I think. I also thought it ruins some of the charm and mystery that everybody in the game seems to be a homicidal freak.

    Yes, and part of my disappointment came from the sense that the interviews with Ken Levine made it sound more like a living world with characters in it, rather than a dead world full of... well, homicidal freaks.

    But I do still love it for being it, even though it is largely a corridor shooter with pretensions to A-level philosophy.

    ;)
  • thedaveeyres 8 Jan 2008 12:43:19 11,428 posts
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    Of course my last comment was in jest. :)

    Even as a straight shooter, I think Bioshock gets a hell of a lot right compared to other recent outings. It's a game the offers quality over quantity in terms of combat, and also in level design, in my opinion.

    The claim that it's boring to play is in direct opposition to my experience of shooters in 2007. The most enjoyable of which were, for me, games like Bioshock, Stalker and Half-Life 2: Ep. 2, that set the gunplay in a situation where you felt a degree of emotional connection with what was going on... there was suspense, surprise, even terror...

    ...this stands in stark contrast to the years other 'great shooters', not mentioning any names... *cough* Halo 3 *cough* CoD4 *cough*, where little emotional investment was demanded and enemies were pretty much throwaway and bland.

    Of course, this is only the opinion of one man. :)

    XBLA: Hamster Trippin
    Steam: thedaveeyres
    PSN: HamsterTrippin

  • Deleted user 8 January 2008 12:45:00
    @Ley
    No one's getting cross, and I've said you're entitled to opinions, even incorrect ones.

    Your definition of "corridor shooter" would encapsulate every game that was a linear FPS where the action occurred indoors. Since Bioshock is set under the sea, they were a bit stuck with it I suppose.

    I suppose that Halo 3 and Half Life 2 are also corridor shooters. Until you get to outdoor bits, those bits must be "outdoor" shooters.

    Bioshock is a linear game. Choice on progress is limited to questions of order (which bit do you go to first). That's more choice than Half-Life 2, or Call of Duty, by the way, but still it qualifies as linear. More linear than Halo 3.

    Since I've just mentioned three great games which are also linear, I don't think linearity is a persuasive criticism. If implemented well, it works. The most valid criticism of Bioshock is that the back-tracking can be tedious- that is, that it is not simply a linear experience. I didn't mind it, but hey. An equally valid opinion.

    Dismissing Bioshock as a "corridor shooter" serves only to obfuscate matters. Perhaps to hide the ignorance of the person doing the dismissing, who knows? But the differences between Bioshock, a story and set-piece led game set in a roofed world, where combat situations can be resolved in a variety of ways, by setting traps, acquiring protection, hacking, and the like, is just plain lazy. Corridor Shooter, as a term of art, refers to the old othodoxy of FPSs, borne out of Dooms and Quakes. If you definie it as "shooting guns indoors" it catches tonnes of games that have abandoned the corrdor school of fps, but kept linearity.

    That's all I'll say- I'm not sure I should have glorified your view this much anyhow.
  • monkeypuzzle 8 Jan 2008 12:47:26 1,949 posts
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    thedaveeyres wrote:

    Of course, this is only the opinion of one man. :)

    Gosh this thread got mighty tiresome very quickly.

    I does appear quite a few people still don't understand that some people like stuff that others don't and that is actually how life works.

    Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

  • Deleted user 8 January 2008 12:49:57
    It also appears that quite a few people don't understand that some people like games that they've played and they're entitled to point out to other people who've not played those games that their opinion is less persuasive than a well-informed opinion.
  • LeoliansBro 8 Jan 2008 12:51:29 44,722 posts
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    Henni_playd wrote:
    It also seems that some people don't understand that some people like games that they've played and they're entitled to point out to other people who've not played those games that their opinion is less persuasive than a well-informed opinion.

    That sentence makes little, if any, sense at all.

    Sorry ;)

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • monkeypuzzle 8 Jan 2008 12:51:48 1,949 posts
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    Henni_playd wrote:
    It also seems that some people don't understand that some people like games that they've played and they're entitled to point out to other people who've not played those games that their opinion is less persuasive than a well-informed opinion.

    well done, that was really very good.

    / really can't get animated about something like this. Enjoy your game.

    EDIT: oh look, there it is again a difference of opinion. I thought your sentence was very good, leolian'sBro thought it made no sense. See that's how it works.

    Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

  • thedaveeyres 8 Jan 2008 12:55:20 11,428 posts
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    monkeypuzzle wrote:
    thedaveeyres wrote:

    Of course, this is only the opinion of one man. :)

    Gosh this thread got mighty tiresome very quickly.

    I does appear quite a few people still don't understand that some people like stuff that others don't and that is actually how life works.

    I normally attach a similar disclaimer to my posts when I find myself pontificating about something, it's nothing to do with you.

    You're a tiresome oik, we are trying to talk about Bioshock/Bioshock 2 - as you have no point of reference to our discussion, why not just bugger off?

    XBLA: Hamster Trippin
    Steam: thedaveeyres
    PSN: HamsterTrippin

  • Deleted user 8 January 2008 12:56:42
    monkeypuzzle wrote:
    Henni_playd wrote:
    It also seems that some people don't understand that some people like games that they've played and they're entitled to point out to other people who've not played those games that their opinion is less persuasive than a well-informed opinion.

    well done, that was really very good.

    / really can't get animated about something like this. Enjoy your game.

    EDIT: oh look, there it is again a difference of opinion. I thought your sentence was very good, leolian'sBro thought it made no sense. See that's how it works.
    It's funny that you don't care, because you've made two worthless posts in this thread despite that. Explaining how great it was that you played the demo and dismissed Bioshock was kinda fine. Claiming that your opinion was as good as everybody's when people diagreed with you was the first worthless post though. This last one was the second.

    People on an internet forum will throw opinions round. They're entitled to them, right or wrong. But not all those opinions are equally valid. And after you've posted something, for someone who is informed to pull you up on it only to be greeted by a standard "well, that's, like, your opinion, duuuude" response is weak at best.

    I just wanted you to know that...
  • LeoliansBro 8 Jan 2008 12:58:10 44,722 posts
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    Try being a little more patronising next time Henni, you're almost there. That's my 'informed' opinion.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Popzeus 8 Jan 2008 12:58:12 8,396 posts
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    God, Bioshock threads are getting worse than Halol threads these days. The mere mention of it is a troll-magnet.

    I for one would welcome a Bioshock prequel. Does that make me some kind of social pariah?

    Currently playing: Standing In A Car Park Simulator 2013

  • monkeypuzzle 8 Jan 2008 12:59:00 1,949 posts
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    thedaveeyres wrote:
    monkeypuzzle wrote:
    thedaveeyres wrote:

    Of course, this is only the opinion of one man. :)

    Gosh this thread got mighty tiresome very quickly.

    I does appear quite a few people still don't understand that some people like stuff that others don't and that is actually how life works.

    I normally attach a similar disclaimer to my posts when I find myself pontificating about something, it's nothing to do with you.

    You're a tiresome oik, we are trying to talk about Bioshock/Bioshock 2 - as you have no point of reference to our discussion, why not just bugger off?

    no point of reference? Ok, I think I started very early in this thread saying, I played demo, didn't like it so didn't buy the game. It then kicked off because the great defenders of the game said they liked it.

    Great, well done, I'm pleased for you.

    Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

  • Deleted user 8 January 2008 13:01:19
    And since you only played a demo, your opinion was rightly and properly dismissed. Only you kept shouting at the top of your voice "but it's my opinionnnn", to general amusement.

    We're not here to talk about why the Bioshock Demo Failed to Sell the Game to Some Random Guy on the Internet.

    But keep posting, it amuses.
  • monkeypuzzle 8 Jan 2008 13:02:24 1,949 posts
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    Henni_playd wrote:
    And since you only played a demo, your opinion was rightly and properly dismissed. Only you kept shouting at the top of your voice "but it's my opinionnnn", to general amusement.

    We're not here to talk about why the Bioshock Demo Failed to Sell the Game to Some Random Guy on the Internet.

    But keep posting, it amuses.

    dear oh dear, bye bye then mr big man.

    Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

  • Inquisitor Moderator 8 Jan 2008 13:02:48 14,558 posts
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    Heh, whilst henni may be the most patronising bloke on t'internet he's right about this.
  • UncleLou Moderator 8 Jan 2008 13:04:34 35,785 posts
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    Prequel to Bioshock is good and I'd buy it for sure, entirely new game from Irrational would be even better.
  • Deleted user 8 January 2008 13:06:32
    Inquisitor wrote:
    henni may be the most patronising bloke on t'internet

    It's not my fault / that I'm / A Bad Guy /

    It's Society/

    Society.

    I can change, I can chaaaange.

    *offers Inquisitor a sausage*

  • Blerk Moderator 8 Jan 2008 13:08:24 48,225 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    Prequel to Bioshock is good and I'd buy it for sure, entirely new game from Irrational would be even better.
    Didn't half the people who worked on Bioshock leave shortly after the game was finished? Are they even the same team any more? :-)
  • LeoliansBro 8 Jan 2008 13:09:07 44,722 posts
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    I suppose I didn't enjoy Bioshock having tried it, and this was fine until everyone started telling me I was wrong. The overbearing smugness of people who feel they can look down on you because they enjoyed a game with highbrow aspirations and you didn't, as if that somehow makes them more sophisticated than you, really irks.

    I played the full game to completion. I got the references without needing an article to point them out to me. Having finished it, I felt the atmosphere and graphics didn't disguise the linear, plot heavy game underneath. So I didn't enjoy it. This does not make me a lesser man to those who did ffs.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Inquisitor Moderator 8 Jan 2008 13:12:21 14,558 posts
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    Henni_playd wrote:
    Inquisitor wrote:
    henni may be the most patronising bloke on t'internet

    It's not my fault / that I'm / A Bad Guy /

    It's Society/

    Society.

    I can change, I can chaaaange.

    *offers Inquisitor a sausage*


    Eugh, stop waving that thing in my face, its made me feel rather ill.

    You can never change, once a Kieron Gillen wannabe, always a lost cause.
  • NewbieZilla 8 Jan 2008 13:13:31 239 posts
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    Inquisitor wrote:
    Heh, whilst henni may be the most patronising bloke on t'internet he's right about this.
    Agreed.
    Blerk wrote:Didn't half the people who worked on Bioshock leave shortly after the game was finished? Are they even the same team any more? :-)
    Just yesterday, I saw someone post something pretty damn similar except it was about BioWare and Mass Effect. Honestly, I reckon its nonsense on both counts.
  • Deleted user 8 January 2008 13:14:46
    @Ley's Bro
    You see, all you needed to post was that, to start with. None of this laughable corridor shooter bullshit. You're not alone in your view. And if someone had called you dumb for it (other than in jest), then fine. But no one did. I called you out on your stated opinion. As it is, I'm fine with what you've now posted.

    Although I loved this game, it wasn't the most consistently fun, and if I didn't make shit happen for yourself I imagine that I'd have missed out on a lot, and end up with something like your view. Except I loved the story and how it was told. There are many, many faults in Bioshock. It's not a perfect game, but I'd rather they left it. No prequels and shit. Maybe a remake one day.

    I'm not sure if I can re-play this game.
  • dirigiblebill 8 Jan 2008 13:15:26 1,634 posts
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    Awful lot of aggro in these forums of late.
  • Deleted user 8 January 2008 13:15:35

    Kieron Gillen wannabe

    That fucking hurt.
  • LeoliansBro 8 Jan 2008 13:15:54 44,722 posts
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    Furry muff, horses for courses and all that.





    Is a corridor shooter though.

    /flees

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

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