#8980602, By FalseAlibi The Official Doctor Who Thread

  • FalseAlibi 4 Sep 2012 13:12:08 89 posts
    Seen 1 year ago
    Registered 5 years ago
    wobbly_Bob wrote:
    It's still the same. You don't build a prison and then put the key on the inside. It's silly.
    well...

    1) the guards or administrators of a prison would generally have keys - in this case that would be the automated system. If anything there's an argument that there shouldn't be a lock of any sort and all doors should be metaphorically welded shut instead of locked, but that can be argued both ways.
    2) unless the forcefield is generated off-world then any access to said generation must be from within the prison planet as allowing remote access is asking for trouble.
    3) the Daleks in orbit may not even know if the forcefield can even be switched off (the welds hacked off) but have put the Doctor in a position where if it's possible, he might figure it out.


    And if the force field is impenatrable, then how did the ship crash there?
    Well it's established that it isn't impentrable early on. It just requires massive effort, energy and resources and specific technology aimed at the weakest parts.
    Therefore for all the thousands (possibly) of years the prison has operated, assume one instance of a fluke congruence of events occured that allowed the ship to puncture the forcefield. (sunspots, opposite forcefield phase frequency on the ship, or any other rubbish or plausible explanation that just hasn't been explained)


    And if they know the location of the transmission, have a way to teleport things down onto the planet then why not just teleport a nuke down there? You don't need the doctor.
    1) It's not established that they know the exact location.

    2) They aren't able to teleport down there at will, only puncture the field a little and push something through via the punctury tractor beam malarkey they sent the Doctor and co down with. A nuke or other weapon therefore should be placeable on the surface, but remember the prison goes to the core (which I do have issues with as it goes)


    Huh? The teleports work. They...


    And speaking of the teleported that was used in the escape - it was purely an in-facility transporter. Hence having to be upgraded / converted into one capable of reaching orbit (by a genius dalek who for all intents and purposes has gained access to the prison's guard's resources (the automated systems))



    Why didn't they use such a plan before to lure him somewhere and just blow him up? And if they know his location ( which could be ANY WHERE in TIME and SPACE ) then why not just wait for him there and kill him? It's silly to say that could kidnap him and yet not be able to murder him. If they possess the ability to find him then they can use that to kill him.
    Daleks were badly thought out and used through all there stories up to this point and this criticism fits almost all previous stories. It's also applicable to amost tropes involving a super baddy that has to meet a hero with any frequency.

    The love of hatred, worthy opponent gubbins was as good an attempt to get out of that hole as most attempts so I can't begrudge it.

    Though why he wasn't zapped when forgotten about (which is a bit of a fudge, but hopefully sets up better future dalek stories) is another matter. Perhaps they prefer capture / interrogation and intel on strange man popping head out of box, over insta-zap in cases of unknown qualities and the TARDIS nipped off before anything could be enacted (which is a stretch, but...)

    And I have to say that I respectfully disagree with the apologists that say aww come on it's just a kids show. That's no excuse. If you write well you can entertain both adults and children. A story can be wonderful on both levels.
    True True, but in this instance I thought it did a good job of attempting to appeal and make sense to both audiences, but obv. not to the standard of a single story taking years and huge teams to write create and polish a la Pixar, but better than a lot of UK fair that attempts it.

    In this case it actually made the daleks in the asylum scary which isn't easy to do with a peppermill that's been defeated more times than is plausable.



    My own theory is that any daleks rational enough in the asylum have been coming up with escape attempts since day one. One such plan was getting access to the automated system and doing pretty much what the Doctor did. No dalek either could do it, or had succeeded so far.

    Through (either vai serendipidy or a larger plan involving somehow forcing the spaceship to crash into the planet) having access to a genius, the daleks converted said genius into a dalek and in the process augmented and amplified her intelect (see all daleks are geniuses as is already established).

    Once converted, she was connected to what little access to the system was already established and left to beaver away for however many years it took for her to get full access and enable a mass escape.

    Despite (or because of) hanging onto her human consiousness she succeeded, but broughtcast distress calls / music.

    Daleks monitoring asylum hear call, figure an escape is in the offing and fear mad dalek reprisals / civil war and thus call Doctor (via convoluted, but established methods) to "save" them from such an event.



    And so most flaws / issues aren't that bad and are forgiveable in the context of a good story, and the really dodgy plot decisions that seem to break all logic are inherent in being already long established Doctor Who problems. Some are address to an extent, and others are ignored.

    And while the story could be made without the historical Who problems, it'd mean either letting the daleks win / actually destroy meaningful stuff in a non-Who style sci-fi setting, or not using daleks. And alas - they can't be done away with. But at least they've been rebooted into the dust and so hopefully (but probably unlikely) they can now be used in sensible stories going forward.
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