Zelda man obsessed with besting Ocarina Comments by Robert Purchese

@ Cid: I agree. One of the nice things about playing games in a series such as Zelda is that you are immediately familiar with a large part of the mechanics, which allows you to get on with learning the new stuff. But like you say, TP felt too familiar. There wasn't enough risk taking either in terms of style (see WW) or gameplay (MM). The only learning curve was getting to grips with the Wii remote. Other then that, it felt like a remake of OoT. An extremely enjoyable remake, but a remake non the less.

"Glad to see there's at least a couple of guys with the same opinion as me in here...I really didn't enjoy OOT. Link To The Past is, and forever will be, the best Zelda, nay, best game ever. OOT doesn't even come close."

I think this all comes down to age and (not in a bad way but) nostalgia. Link to the Past is Zelda to me as well because I was 11 when it came through the post one rainy Saturday morning. I'd been waiting for it for weeks (bloody mail order, didn't have Amazon or Play.com with their fancy pants quick delivery service in Ye Olde England).

Anyway, after playing that game, it seemed there was nothing better in life at the time, it was even better than a infinite supply of WHAM bars and sherbet Flying Saucers. So yeah LttP was the best imo but I do understand the children among us preferring the N64 game, you see, they think a sprite is a fizzy dwink fwom McDonald's, they do not understand the meaning of "2D" "game", they think that 2D games are something that were designed for budget mobile phones, not consoles and that only spastics could enjoy them on a real TV.

PS. LttP was the dogs but the best game of all time is Chrono Trigger, FACT.

Links Awakening was the fist Zelda I played, and I still rate it the highest. Hopefully they can make a new decent one for Handhelds.

Link's Awakening = best Zelda ever.

See, I don't really think Twilight Princess felt much like Ocarina, myself (and I have the Cube version). I just think it lacked that certain something, and they tried far too hard to make it a dark, gloomy experience. Something which came naturally to Majora's Mask just felt a little forced in TP. The high points were things like using the iron boots to walk on walls, the snowy mansion dungeon, Ball & Chain, Double Clawshot and the Dominion Rod, which were all new ideas. I wasn't too fond of the Spinner.

I mean don't get me wrong, it's still a great game, but from now on they really should just do what THEY - and not the fans - think is right when it comes to Zelda.

M's M had a fantastic dark atmosphere - Right up my street.

Just making another one with a hint of weirdness would make me happy.

Levels harder than the water temple and guides more annoying than Navi (hey listen). Make it one louder in every area and give web comic writers something to joke about for the next ten years.

Hmmm Chrono Trigger/LTTP....I only ever played through CT twice, where as LTTP I've probably completed from start to finish about 10 times. I'm gonna give CT another play through when it comes out on the DS, that may sway my judgement.

But you're right about the age thing. I would have been about 8/9 when LTTP came out, and I played it religiously for years. It's absolutely flawless. LTTP and Resident Evil 1 are the only 2 games I've played enough times to do entire run-thrus in my head.

God, I would make love to LTTP.

I wouldn't even let Ocarina of Time give me oral sex.

I think he already has surpassed Ocarina of Time with Twilight Princess. Twilight Princess is the best Zelda game by far to me - it's the one I enjoyed the most and, for once in a Zelda game, I never got lost wondering what to do next - nice and logical puzzles where you had to figure out the solution rather than hope you stumble accross it.

I do like Ocarina of Time though, a lot, it's just not my favourite any more.

Looks like it's been said many times already but for me Majora's Mask far exceeded OOT. The world felt far more alive, and the capital city consisted of more than one screen.

This is probably blasphemy but for me the worst bit of all Zeldas is the

- Dungeon
- Travel to next dungeon
- Dungeon
- Travel to next dungeon
- Goto 10

Dungeon gameplay is overrated (no matter how well made they are), and it's nice to feel part of the bigger world for more than a brief period. Okami nailed this. And so, to a degree, did Majora's Mask.

As someone who played the original in 1986 and every installment on every system up to Phantom Hourglass, I must say I agree that Link to the Past is the crown jewel of the series. Those of us who are old enough to appreciate 16 bit games understand the significance of this title.

What a lot of younger gamers seem to not understand is how far the Zelda series pushed the enveloped at the time. The original was one of the first games, if not the first game to offer a battery pack save game option. A Link to the Past was simply a breakthrough in video game production values, graphics, sound and game play. I remember reading one review that was particularly impressed with the sound effects, specifically the sound of Link's footsteps as he went up and down staircases. This is the type of thing we take for granted today but at the time processing power and memory was extremely limited. The Zelda team has always had the guts to take risks and the skill to execute a game with a level of polish that is simply unmatched by any developer.

In my opinion, having played them all, I think they are all wonderfully executed. A Link to the Past remains the crown jewel because it established the classic Zelda formula and game mechanics. It also has the strongest musical compositions of the series. It also introduced one of the most epic mechanics in all of gaming--a mirror universe or "dark world."

Ocarina deserves all the praise it gets and then some so i won't talk about it, but I just want to add that I think Twilight Princess was an exceptional game. It was an exceptional retelling of the classic Zelda story, with a pretty remarkable visual style and soundtrack. I think Twilight Princess involved the best character development and storytelling in the series. It also managed to have an outlandish and unique theme (Midna, ect) and storyline but also involved some of the more classic elements of the previous games. In the end, the conflict was the classic conflict between Gannon and Link. I'd like to see Gannon in every game in some capacity. The art is in how they get you back to the classic struggle. It wasn't perfect, but it was as good a gaming experience as I have ever had. I am personally impressed that they did such a fine job of conjuring up so much nostalgia in a modern game--considering a lot of fans have been playing the series since they were--6 or 7 years old?

I think they need to ditch the Ocarina model and go back and take a hard look at a Link to the Past--the visual style, the music, and the format and think about why that game has so much staying power. I think Windwaker was a step back toward Link to the Past in terms of style and presentation but they bungled the game itself with all the sailing. They also need to look at the past games and come up with some sort of official cannon for the game and then develop it so this series can progress. Zelda could use a bit more lore and intrigue at this point.

I thought the sailing in Wind Waker was great. ;_; It was just the cack-handed way you had to go about it that was the problem. Having to assign your sail to a button like every other item was utterly pointless. Ironically Phantom Hourglass fucked up sailing good and proper despite trying to improve it.

I started with the original NES Zelda, but missed out on A Link to the Past for some reason. Played it on the GBA a few years ago and thought it was great, but not on the same level as some of the others. I guess you had to play it at the time.

As far as I'm concerned Link's Awakening is the best top-down Zelda.

3D LttP remake? Hold all my calls for an hour please...

@kiroquai: >I wouldn't necessarily agree that Majora's Mask was cut down.

Whoops.. I meant the cell shaded one... Wind Waker.. NOT Majoras Mask.. Which was ***ing proper hardcore (i needed a faq to finish it)

To clarify : OOT & MM = great

WW and TP = good - but too easy

No one mentioned Minish Cap?
Innovative in gameplay and art, plus it's brilliant in many ways. Probably my favourite handheld Zelda.

Capcom (?) did some nice new stuff with the Legend of Zelda : Oracle of... games but they got a bit too complicated for me with all the alternate dimensions / time periods / seasons. I got too lost.

At least Link's Awakening got a few mentions. The DX version is great, with the camera and extra sidequest. (:

I tried playing Ocarina of Time earlier this year on Gamecube. It really hasn't aged well, and it's certainly not the best game of all time.

I'd say that Zelda games need to be more open ended and with more choice. Zelda games feel more like platformers in that there are "stages" and you have to complete these in a certain order to get to the end.

Seperate the required items from the dungeons, surely if the only thing that could break your armour was a mallet would you keep such a mallet locked away in your dungeon and instead of keeping the key on yourself would you give it to some inept guard?

Also go down the Bioware route of choice - this special ore will let me upgrade my sword, my bow and my shield but I only have enough ore to upgrade one, which do I chose? and these two villages don't like each other, if I help village A village B won't like me and won't give their side quest and if I help village B village A won't like me and won't give me their side quest.

Zelda games I'll play through about once, go back to an earlier save to get all the items then never touch them again. Baldur's Gate 2 I played through the unmodded game over ten times playing out the possibilities. Zelda needs to modernise, its using current gen technology with 16-Bit gaming methods. It doesn't have to be as in-depth as Fable, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect or KOTOR but at least appreciate branching dialogue, choice and consequence.

@ Blackstone: "I think they need to ditch the Ocarina model and go back and take a hard look at a Link to the Past--the visual style, the music, and the format and think about why that game has so much staying power. I think Windwaker was a step back toward Link to the Past in terms of style and presentation but they bungled the game itself with all the sailing. They also need to look at the past games and come up with some sort of official cannon for the game and then develop it so this series can progress. Zelda could use a bit more lore and intrigue at this point."

Well said, I couldn't agree more. OoT was a fabulous game, and was a tremendous way to bring Zelda into 3D. But I think WindWaker actually looked more like a Zelda game. For me it was a much truer representation of the art style of LTTP taken into the 3D then Ocarina (which to be fair wasn't helped by the N64 hardware) or Twilight (which did have the graphics power, but went for that "realistic" look instead). Twilight did have some fantastic storytelling and set pieces (I loved the wild west shootout), and the final boss battle was truly epic (my fav out of all the 3D Zelda boss fights), but Windwaker looked much more like classic SNES era Zelda, and still is to me one of the most beautiful games ever.

I think really I'm after Windwaker graphics, coupled to the spirit of innovation in Ocarina and the story telling of Twilight Princess. Not asking much really am I?

@SpeedyThing

See, this is why I think Twilight Princess started off well, the between dungeon bits started out huge and rather good and then they buggered it up at the end (i.e. a vital part of the game as it's going to be the last bit you remember) by doing 3 in quick succession.

The spinner boss was extremely fun, but the spinner itself was too much of a specific location item, it didn't require any intelligence to realise when to use it...

I agree with Indecisive about Minish Cap though, I wouldn't say it's my favourite, but it's certainly overlooked far too much

Also, smelly mentioned "no need to do side quests". Isn't that, like, the point of side quests?

Well I am a die hard Zelda fan and for some reason Minish Cap managed to slip past me when it was initially released. I think the real problem with Minish Cap is the GBA platform it was released for. The GBA was always a hard sell for me because it lacked a backlight and it just didn't have the same appeal that DS has. So when it was released I didn't pay much attention because I wasn't about to buy a GBA. I didn't play it until I got a DS. In addition, Capcom's involvement in the game led me to believe it wasn't going to be a true Zelda game. So there were some branding issues there.

The game itself was actually quite good. I don't think it was as good as LttP but it was good looking, good sounding, and very creative. I think it was a better game than Phantom Hourglass. The magic cap that made you shrink, turning droplets of water into insurmountable lakes and forcing you to look at the environments from a different perspective was very much in the spirit of Zelda.

I think Nintendo should have two Zelda development teams--a 2D team and a 3D team, and they should both produce games for Wii. I wouldn't be surprised if they go back to top down 2D/3D for the next Wii installment. I am actually sort of hoping they do a full blown old school Zelda game with 3D models like they used in New Super Mario Brothers. They could really make a gorgeous top down game for the Wii.

One of the things that excited me about the Wii was that because it lacked HD processing power I thought Nintendo would use it as an opportunity to revisit and remake some classic 16-bit games.

The problem I have with the 3D Zelda games like Twilight Princess is that they don't really stand the test of time with respect to graphics because the hardware is so crippled. A Link to the Past still looks good, subjectively, but OoT, Twilight Princess and to a lesser extent Wind Waker suffer tremendously from a lack of anti-aliasing and low resolution. I think they are great looking games, but it is a real crime that putting those games up on a 50 or 60 inch HDTV only makes them look worse and not better. I'd almost rather Nintendo just holds off on the next 3D Zelda for their next console so they can do it in at least 720P resolution. Sure, the Wii has GPU power that went untapped in Twilight Princess, but even if they used every last drop of the Wii's graphics power in the next installment, it still will be a low resolution game. It will probably not be the fresh new, next generation looking Zelda we want unless they go top down 2D or go back to cell shading.

A few quick points:

Firstly congratulations to everyone for making this a great thread for a change without the usual bitching and moaning you get on this site. Lots of sensible, varied arguments here.

I must say, I think there can be a big difference between your favourite ever Zelda and the greatest ever. I believe any of them can be your favourite, just depends what you are looking for in a game and your age will definitely affect your view on these games too. However, I believe that OOT is definitely the greatest zelda game ever, purely down to the amazing achievement of turning what was one of the greatest games ever at the time, LTTP, into a fully realised 3D world and still having the balls to add an awful lot too. The only game IMO that was a greater achievement was Mario 64, purely because it did it first. Without Mario 64 i'm certain OOT wouldn't have turned out as good.

I have definitely tired of the Zelda formula since OOT and never finished WW and couldn't be bothered with TP. IMO the greatest 3d game since OOT is Shadow of the Colossus because it tried something completely new and different and pulled it off with great success.

For a new Zelda I would love them to switch the gameplay up quite a bit and give it an artistic direction similar to the new POP, difficult on the Wii I know what the hell, give it a shot.

@ vice.destroyer

you sir are the one who's on drugs,
"I think that you have been spoiled by HD graphics. Either now or at the time. The N64 was not the most powerful machine available at the time"
uhhhhhh... while the n64's cartridge format did not leave room for higher definition textures (as the saturn and ps1's cds did) it was the n64, not the n32. the ps1 and saturn were 32-bit consoles, the n64 was a 64 bit console, so how the f@#% do you figure it "wasn't the most powerful machine available at the time".
what are you smoking exactly as i'd like to purchase some?
do some research next time before spouting off nonsense. the name should have clued you in

@Ceatlan: I think the games in 90's must of been to tough for you to tackle and that's what put you off it. OOT is no doubt the best game ever and will take some work to beat. I wish Eiji Aonuma all the best in making a better and more enjoyable Zelda title for us all to play.

One of the things that makes OoT so great is the simple fact it was the first 3D Zelda - never had we experienced it. Personally though, I think it was already beaten by Majora's Mask which I do prefer to OoT.