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Year ahead a "struggle" for Xbox News

Xbox 360 PlayStation 3 Wii
News by Eurogamer staff

6 June, 2008

Clever industry analysts have laid into the Microsoft Xbox business, calling its attempts to grab the casual audience "disastrous" and predicting it will "start to struggle in the market" in 2008.

The dissenting voices came from a panel speaking at the Nordic Game 2008 conference in Sweden last month. When called to asses the current state of the worldwide games market, analysts painted Microsoft a less than rosy picture.

"When you look at an installed base basis, the Xbox 360's going to come in third place when all's said and done," said David Cole from DFC Intelligence - some sort of videogames spy organisation presumably.

"The concern I would have with a company like Microsoft is, one of these days they're going to have to make a profit on this business otherwise why are they in it?"

Nick Parker, who runs Parker Consulting, and an analyst from Screen Digest argued that the Xbox 360 failure to win Europe was because of a fundamental image problem.

"The trouble with Xbox 360 is it hasn't managed to shake off this urban, irreverent adult male feel; so it hasn't gained traction in the more casual gaming markets of mainland Europe such as France, Spain and Italy, where it's stalled," said Parker. "And there are already rumours of Xbox 360 being delisted from certain retailers."

Parker, who used to work for Sony, hammered his argument home by suggesting Microsoft had learnt nothing from the mistakes of its first Xbox.

"I think they started off badly with the Xbox itself: blood and breasts. This alienated it immediately to a lot of consumers around Europe, and they never got over that. The brand image never went away. And although Halo 3 is a big game, it just emphasises again what the Xbox is all about," added Parker.

"If you go talk to people in Seville, in Rome, they're not interested in that. They're much more casual gamers, they don't want to have such competitive games."

Cole (from DFC Intelligence - keep up) said although Microsoft was struggling to break its hardcore borders, it was still possible for publishers to rack-up strong sales on typically Xbox titles.

"If you're doing a first-person shooter title, you're clearly going to want to be on Xbox 360, and that's for years to come. [But] their efforts at marketing outside of the first-person shooter crowd have been disastrous," he said.

Microsoft hired former Nintendo Europe chief David Gosen (The Gosen One) earlier this year to to head its casual attack on the continent.

Globally the Xbox 360 leads the PS3 by 19 million sales to 12.85, respectively, although Microsoft had a year's headstart. Perhaps the surprise leader of the generation remains Nintendo with Wii sales of 24.4 million.

While the European picture looks grim for Microsoft, with regional Sony boss David Reeves proclaiming a PS3 win on the continent already, the Xbox 360 still performs strongly in the UK and in its home US territory.

Last month Xbox boss Don Mattrick boasted about reaching the 10 million sales landmark, producing rousing statements such as, "History has shown us that the first company to reach 10 million in console sales wins the generation battle."

The panel accused Mattrick of "clutching at straws".

"[Microsoft] get very defensive because they realise the US is their last stronghold now as their sales go into decline across the rest of the world," said Parker (ex-Sony, runs Parker Consulting - keep up).

"So they're a little bit desperate and they're clutching at straws now to cling on to what they've got in the market which is primarily the US."

Parker also drudged-up the "tremendous brand loyalty to PlayStation", which he claims caused many to hold off entering the new generation until Sony and its familiar brands did.

Cole (DFC Intelligence) rued that "there's always the risk" Microsoft might reconsider its place in the console business because of all this.

"They will have to assess their position after this round, and clearly they were very committed to saying they were going to stick with this business through another console system. They haven't really talked much beyond that and I know that really at some point they are going to have to figure out how they're going to make money out of this business."

And while Cole said he expected "the Xbox 360 start to struggle in the market" over the next 12 months, he admitted that Sony faced similar problems to turn PS3 sales into profit.

The Wii was also picked on; despite its success, the panel questioned its long-term prospects and the commitment of its casual audience.

"There's a risk that they [casual users] could actually put the Wii in the wardrobe if there isn't a steady stream of games that please them," offered Martin Lindell, a Swedish analyst.

Parker agreed: "You've got to remember there's a difference between buying and playing - the fact that you get your grandma to play the game doesn't mean she's going out to buy it. I'm still in that kind of faddish feeling about the Wii."

DFC Cole stood by historical third-party support issues as causing a potential long-term risk for the Wii.

"It's a huge issue that Nintendo dominates the platforms they own, as that's how they make all their money," said Cole.

"We see the Wii having a higher installed base but the PS3 generating, by about 2010 to 2011, more revenue in terms of software."

Microsoft did have one smouldering champion at the session. When the panel began criticising Sony and Microsoft for making too many different models of their consoles - specifically referencing the Xbox 360 Elite - an unusually silent Epic Games boss Mark Rein bellowed, "Are you guys crazy?", claiming the victimised unit had been the only profitable model for Microsoft.

Predict your own future by making Tarot Cards based on GamesIndustry.biz fact.

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squarejawhero
06/06/08 @ 13:40
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Rumours are facts - remember that, kids!
squarejawhero
06/06/08 @ 13:42
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Or after reading the entire thing - they're all fucked.

(could update that headling, EG staff - all major consoles "fucked". Quote me, I'm an... er... analyst)
Edited 1 times, most recently on 06/06/08 @ 14:42
Quint2020
06/06/08 @ 13:43
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I wish i could be an analyst getting paid to spout off unproven gibberish sounds really easy.
Edited 1 times, most recently on 06/06/08 @ 14:43
CannonAnBall
06/06/08 @ 13:43
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...glad I got rid of the Shitbox360! lol
squarejawhero
06/06/08 @ 13:43
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"Microsoft did have one smouldering champion at the session. When the panel began criticising Sony and Microsoft for making too many different models of their consoles - specifically referencing the Xbox 360 Elite - an unusually silent Epic Games boss Mark Rein bellowed, "Are you guys crazy?", claiming the victimised unit had been the only profitable model for Microsoft."

And this says it all, really...
squarejawhero
06/06/08 @ 13:44
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"Shitbox360", not heard that one before. Are you a Pissy3 owner?
mikeck
06/06/08 @ 13:44
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All these figures etc are interesting , and yes it's very good for Ninty that the Wii has surpassed everybody's expectations perhaps, but the Wii is for the casual/family orientated gamer (in most cases I would say, but of course not all) and the price is also on it's side.

Of course this is a three-horse race, but I would always consider the Wii to be on the outside of the 360 and PS3, because it is a different beast in a way. Either way, this amount of competition is always healthy, and I love both the 360 and the PS3 and to be honest I couldn't care less which is selling better. As long as the developers concentrate on making consistently good games we all win right?
Coughthulu
06/06/08 @ 13:44
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Is it just me that reads all of their statements as pretty much "Down with this sort of thing!" in general? What do they think about PC gaming, is it too "niche"?

How do these people actually make any money?
CannonAnBall
06/06/08 @ 13:46
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@ squarejawhero

Funnily I just thought of the term 'Shitbox360'. Might have read it somewhere else.

I own a MegaDrive and my favourite game is Desert Strike.
PlugMonkey
06/06/08 @ 13:47
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What a load of unmitigated horse shit that lot was.

"The trouble with Xbox 360 is it hasn't managed to shake off this urban, irreverent adult male feel"

While this might be true, I think the fact I don't know a single person who is still on their first one is probably worth a mention too. The chronic reliability problems have definitely been putting off a lot of people I know.

"I'm still in that kind of faddish feeling about the Wii."

Yeah. That's what the 'expert analysts' said about the DS...
peteb
06/06/08 @ 13:47
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I feel glad that the 360 isn't "casual", it means I can play some decent games.

I'm seriously worried what the follow up console will be like should there be one though. It'll have 67 games on launch day, with their titles all ending in "z".
squarejawhero
06/06/08 @ 13:47
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CannonAnBall, sir, you have gone up in my estimation.

Have a cookie!
Katsumoto
06/06/08 @ 13:47
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Jungle Strike was x10 better.
mikeck
06/06/08 @ 13:48
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@ CannonAnBall

Stick your Mega Drive...it's all about the SNES...sucker ;)
squarejawhero
06/06/08 @ 13:48
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The Strike games are in need of a Ea-make. Make it so, EA! MAKE IT SO!

AND NOT SHIT!

OR WITH TEARING!
Bill Door
06/06/08 @ 13:49
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Last console for MS apparently.
Quint2020
06/06/08 @ 13:49
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"Stick your Mega Drive...it's all about the SNES...sucker ;)"

/MEGA shuns
mikeck
06/06/08 @ 13:49
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"While this might be true, I think the fact I don't know a single person who is still on their first one is probably worth a mention too. The chronic reliability problems have definitely been putting off a lot of people I know. "

I'm on my first one (it's a Japanese import though, not sure if that makes any difference)...if I go home now though and it dies on me I'm going to be an unhappy bunny though...just my luck that I open my gob and it would happen too...
squarejawhero
06/06/08 @ 13:50
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They've been saying "last console for MS" and "MS to leave console market in 2008" since two years now.
mikeck
06/06/08 @ 13:50
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"/MEGA shuns"

I was trying to make SNES into some sort of catchy comeback and I couldn't...so up your bum and no babies!!! :)
Quint2020
06/06/08 @ 13:51
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"I was trying to make SNES into some sort of catchy comeback and I couldn't...so up your bum and no babies!!! :)"

.................................. my place or yours...?
systems
06/06/08 @ 13:52
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Seems about right to me. The Xbox will always be the "typical male gamer" console, the Wii will always be the "casual citizen" console and the PS3 will be somewhere between the two but the high price keeping it away from the truly casual gamers (BD player, fancy styling, PS2 brand familiarity).

Before anyone moans about fanboyism I own all three so pack that right in.
mikeck
06/06/08 @ 13:52
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".................................. my place or yours...? "

Smoothie ;)
muscleblade
06/06/08 @ 13:54
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No matter who wins - the 360 remain the best console for serious gamers.

I love Nintendo from the past but i dont think they derserve to win with the Wii. And although the PS3 is very good its not as good as the 360 no matter how you see it. If the 360 really loose - the gamers loose.
stampax
06/06/08 @ 13:55
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Whilst everyone likes to have a go at analysts, isnt what the guy was saying pretty likely? Rightly or wrongly people will buy a ps3 purely because it's Sony - the reality is many people still refer to all computer games as 'playstations'. And there is little doubt that however great the 360 is - its unlikely to appeal to mass markets in the way the wii and the ps3 will.
Whilst there is obviously a massive argument to be had over which is the best machine - don't most agree the likeihood is that the 360 will come last out of the three in the end in terms of numbers bought?
Dizzy
06/06/08 @ 13:55
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Developers and Attach rate. Case closed.

"And while Cole said he expected "the Xbox 360 start to struggle in the market" over the next 12 months, he admitted that Sony faced similar problems to turn PS3 sales into profit.

The Wii was also picked on; despite its success, the panel questioned its long-term prospects and the commitment of its casual audience.
"

Err?? So all 3 are going to struggle?
Edited 2 times, most recently on 06/06/08 @ 14:58
marronthered
06/06/08 @ 13:55
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well we all knew as soon as the ps3 got on its feet it would overtake the xbox. so this article is nothing original.
the xbox's attempts at cracking the casual market have been feeble to say the least. do the world a favour and bail out after this round microsoft.... leave the fun stuff (i.e. not shooters and racers) to the japanese and europeans.
lambtron
06/06/08 @ 13:56
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"I notice that the main critic was ex-Sony. Says it all really."

Indeed.
peteb
06/06/08 @ 13:57
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@marronthered

shooters and racers aren't fun?
Goffee
06/06/08 @ 13:58
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Analysts only make money if people buy their reports. Putting big claims in these reports, especially in 'soft' areas like console futures, where you can make almost any prediction, gives them headlines and attracts buyers.

The likely reality is infinitely more boring. All three console makers will trudge on with MS and Sony losing some money (maybe break even), Nintendo making pots of money and the developers, apart from EA, struggling to turn a coin for the next two/three years (See this prediction stuff is simple)

As we enter the next cycle refresh (XXX3, PS4, WiiToo), gaming will hit the worst barrier yet. Games too expensive to make, not enough people buying them until the new machines are cheaper. One of them, most likely XXX3 will not make it far out of the gates, 'doing a Dreamcast' I think it is called.

The devs will love only having two platforms to create for and we enter a new golden age of gaming with PS4 aiming high and WiiToo being a HD/internet family games terminal. WiiToo will dominate as Nintendo uses the money they are putting in the bank now to undercut Sony prices to ridiculous effect.

On the negative (or positive, depending on your point of view) side, boxed software all but dies out and all Game stores shut down.

DFawkes
06/06/08 @ 13:58
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@squarejawhero
I'd be willing to bet you're more qualified to be an "analyst" than these jokers. You should get paid for your analysis :) I'd even appreciate headlines like "All Major Console 'Fucked' says leading Analyst" far more than the usual tripe.
marronthered
06/06/08 @ 13:59
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"shooters and racers aren't fun?"

yeah they are but the world is saturated with them imo.
marronthered
06/06/08 @ 14:01
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@ goffee

u stay in last night then? ;)
Dizzy
06/06/08 @ 14:02
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Mark Rein was seen laughing his ass off in the bar afterwards ;)
qwerty123
06/06/08 @ 14:02
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"If you go talk to people in Seville, in Rome, they're not interested in that. They're much more casual gamers, they don't want to have such competitive games."

sounds to me like the rest of the world are all wimps and its left up to the UK and US customers to keep playing traditional so called 'hardcore' games
PS. I also own a Wii for the novelty factor
Wash
06/06/08 @ 14:03
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:S is it just me that sees no real difference between the ps3 and 360 libraries?

Only little big planet seems to stick out. Both of them awash with FPS, JRPG, Western RPG, Action Adventures......

Maybe i'm just not that up on gaming, or are sony using the blu-ray as the casual draw i guess.
Goffee
06/06/08 @ 14:03
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@marronthered - Yep, selling all my Game shares and shredding my Atari Fanclub newsletters before the narcs arrive.
bcolter
06/06/08 @ 14:04
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/Likes "boobs" & "blood"
HardToast
06/06/08 @ 14:06
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What makes me laugh is fanboys, and I do think 360 ones are the worst.
When the system was looking like it 'could' beat the PS3 everyone was saying, Wahooo!
Now the fanboys are saying 'OMG at least we have a better attach rate than the PS3' I mean, c'mon get a grip.

Eraysor
06/06/08 @ 14:07
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Nice typo on assess - asses!
subtlesnake
06/06/08 @ 14:07
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From the article: "The concern I would have with a company like Microsoft is, one of these days they're going to have to make a profit on this business otherwise why are they in it?"

"They will have to assess their position after this round, and clearly they were very committed to saying they were going to stick with this business through another console system. They haven't really talked much beyond that and I know that really at some point they are going to have to figure out how they're going to make money out of this business."

They've made a profit for the last 3 quarters.
marronthered
06/06/08 @ 14:08
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has any other console had the epic phail rate of the 360?
Dark_Stranger
06/06/08 @ 14:08
#43
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"blood and breasts" isnt that an S&M mag?
jachap
06/06/08 @ 14:10
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Looks like they got hit by the COLE TRAIN.
bcolter
06/06/08 @ 14:14
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A whole comment section full of anal ysts... Funny enough the "some" folks here are better qualified than the clowns in this article.

Fanboys certainly take any chance they can get to parade around waggling banners about... how the "chosen" console is the winner and everything else is dead in the water.

Everyone knows handhelds are the future, and Apple will be in that game soon enough.

/sigh... enjoys playing on a big screen
ps3owner
06/06/08 @ 14:15
#46
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@bcolter

What the FUCK! A MAC FANBOY!!! !!! GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!!!!

mossychops001
06/06/08 @ 14:16
#47
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Well, the Xbox360 has hit its plateau in the logical function S-curve quicker than the original Xbox. So he may be right?
miiiguel
06/06/08 @ 14:17
#48
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CannonAnBall, so you're glad because you don't own a 360 and this guy said it is not for wimps ? okeeee...
bcolter
06/06/08 @ 14:17
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@ps3owner - You are truly clueless.
chrisjm
06/06/08 @ 14:18
#50
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eurogamer, dig out all of these reports in the last 3-4 years and give us a 'success rate'

i bet most are wrong (ps3 teh win, wii wont sell etc etc), and hopefully this will shame these people and also stop you printing their made up dribble which only gives it credibility which it doesnt deserve.

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