XNA boss talks up Zune game concepts Comments by Tom Bramwell

I am starting some iPhone development so Zune is also possible. What I like about these platforms is the nice big screen (as opposed to mobile phones) and the "ease" to deploy your finished app to the Zune/iTunes store.

They probably haven't gotten around to launcing in Europe because the demand for the Zune in the US is so massively huge.
Or because they know that the device is pretty much worthless all over and impossible to sell.

LOL

the zune needs a once over from an actual designer

What strikes me as odd is that XNA supports the zune but not the WM platform which is far more successful and growing rapidly (not even mentioning that it has far more possibilities).

The Zune is a lovely player, and I wouldn't sell mine, but Microsoft still make some really annoying little issues in their software and hardware, which you wouldn't expect from a company with their level of experience. The Zune software in particualar is a bloated non-user friendly mess...

The Zune is a fantastic peice of kit. I know it will never replace the iPod for a lot of people, but thats because they still believe 'iPod' = 'mp3 player'. They had no idea what one was before Apple came along and said 'this is sexy, you want it.'

Anyway, the original Zune was great, but the new 80gb one is even better. Very slim, very stylish, great glass screen and awesome laptop-style navigation pad. Also the back is much better than the fingerprint-addicted iPod - so I believe Microsoft has some great designers already.

I agree with the above poster about the software (on the PC, not the Zune itself - thats almost flawless) is terribly bloated and uses way too much memory, although the functionality is great and it looks much better than iTunes (which is very odd considering how Apple can only sell things based on how they look...)

I'm personally glad I got mine before they were launched over here - both of them (both the original and the new one) when I got them were £110 each (obviously a straight conversion from the dollar). Compare that to even the smallest iPods over here, and you're seriously being ripped off.

I was going to say that. Whoever said the Zune should get a designer, bear in mind that the iPod has won the 'ugliest gadget of the year' 5 years running now.

And yes, I realise I just made that competition up... though its not much of a competition with the iPods in it. Stupid things.

"WM platform"

You mean Windows Mobile? Wouldn't exactly call that a success. It's getting its ass kicked by the iPhone and Blackberry, which were both late(r) to the party.

Les, the MS Apocalypse Knight..., the guy who says the company who sold 1 million copies of... UNO (!), doesn't know how to make business, in every MS thread.

Maybe if he drinks half a beer he says Windows is a failure.

"The Zune is a fantastic peice of kit."

LOL again. The Zune is a piece of crap for people that for one reason or other have decided they hate the iPod and are not interested in its other better-quality, lower-cost competitors. That's not a particularly big group and therefore it doesn't sell.

The iPod is a success because of the combination of hardware and software. None of Apple's competitors has been able to match the total package. Most of them because they just focus on hardware and (like the Zune) come with terrible software.

He's angry now...

There, there, it's ok, they're evil... chill.

And his theories, omg!, like everyone has "funny feelings" for companies like he does, I mean I have an iPod and a Zune. I don't hate anyone, ffs!

@ Les: I take it you used to have a Zune and hated it... If not, just shut up, you don't know what you're talking about.

"You mean Windows Mobile? Wouldn't exactly call that a success. It's getting its ass kicked by the iPhone and Blackberry, which were both late to the party. "

WM is doing great in the professional (and corporate) market (handscanners, terminals,...)

Oh, and WM IS a success. It's an OS, not a phone.

He had 1/4 of a beer... it's still early in the afternoon. By night time Bill Gates will be broke.

"You mean Windows Mobile? Wouldn't exactly call that a success. It's getting its ass kicked by the iPhone and Blackberry, which were both late(r) to the party."

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about eh?

"If not, just shut up, you don't know what you're talking about."

I've read plenty of reviews and a colleague of mine owns one. There's nothing it does better than the iPod, it's bigger, more cumbersome and costs about the same. If you really hate the iPod there are far better and cheaper alternatives.

Windows Mobile is sudenely a phone, and he mentions iPhone and Blackberry but doesn't mention the actual leader (then come WM), Symbian OS.

Trivia: find who hates whom? "Funny feelings" are a bitch...

"You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about eh?"

As the owner of a totally worthless WM phone, unfortunately I do. Rebranding the failed WinCE to WM doesn't all of a sudden make it a success. MS has been struggling for years to get a strong position in the mobile phone market but has failed so far. And there's little hope for the future.

it's all doomed!

"As the owner of a totally worthless WM phone, unfortunately I do"

So obviously you haven't. Please stop talking rubbish. You would be surprised how much stuff runs WM in your daily life.

For £130ish on import for the 80gb Zune that's pretty tempting. Do you have to use the crappy software for transferring music/video files to the player (ala itunes/ipods) or can you just drag and drop, as though it's a portable hard drive?

With my Zune I had to do a well documented registry "hack" but now it's drag-n-drop.

"Do you have to use the crappy software for transferring music/video files to the player (ala itunes/ipods) or can you just drag and drop, as though it's a portable hard drive?"

If I'm not mistaken you can use it like a portable hard drive, just like the iPod.

"The Zune is a piece of crap for people that for one reason or other have decided they hate the iPod and are not interested in its other better-quality, lower-cost competitors. That's not a particularly big group and therefore it doesn't sell."

les, unlike most opinionated dweebs such as yourself there isn't really a distinction between liking an mp3 player, and hating an mp3 player. Looks, tactile feedback, device funtionality, price, are all things that matters to end consumers. With that in mind i can report back that as a z30 and z80 owner i've had everyone in my IT department liking, and wanting to get their hands on a zune when they launch over here. And that's coming from PSP (used for media only), ipod (nano, classic, AND touch), and mobile phone users. You appear to easily dismiss the zune software, hardware combo as well as suggestions that you're quick to poo poo most other microsoft initiatives. Perhaps diverting those energies to other past times might serve you well in the future?

to counter your argument about the hardware would be pointless, and a waste of time, because ultimately because you don't care. However, for those that do, the device is a delight to watch, to listen to, and to use. It's not as small as some others, and the battery life isn't as great, but browsing for music is excellent, as is the sound quality.

as for the software. This is essentially v1 of zune software, and i'm sure you all remember how bad itunes was when it first came out. It's annoying that they're removed some functionality out between wmp11 -> zune1, but what there is now works just fine when synching all content.

the marketplace, as far as i can tell by browsing, appears to beat the itunes variant in terms of ease of use to browse, functionality (subscription), and some excellent content that i can't wait to get my hands on.

back on topic, i have my doubts how well games will work on the zune. i'd personally prefer microsoft to be focusing their energies on sorting out things such as id3 tag editing (to save me doing it externally), adding in auto(intelligent) playlists, and the hardware geq, but still, what there is still has apple doing its usual feature lift from microsoft. so that's nice.

r3n, you can use zune, wmp, itunes, or drag and drop. the last 3 via zTools.

Hmm, never mind, found the answer to my own question. Why wouldn't MS let you use it as a portable hard drive as well? That seems counter intuitive - unless it's for some DRM reason, which is well, still counter intuitive. Stupid DRM

ok, thanks miiiguel and jrb. sorely tempted now

I've read plenty of reviews and a colleague of mine owns one. There's nothing it does better than the iPod, it's bigger, more cumbersome and costs about the same. If you really hate the iPod there are far better and cheaper alternatives.

So I'm right, you never owned a Zune and therefore talking complete bs... I'd be curious to see you elaborate on this when you know nothing about the actual product.


"Do you have to use the crappy software for transferring music/video files to the player (ala itunes/ipods) or can you just drag and drop, as though it's a portable hard drive?"

If I'm not mistaken you can use it like a portable hard drive, just like the iPod

Les, you really don't know what you're talking about. Why don't you let Zune owners talk about the Zune? To answer the question, you can't use the Zune as a hard drive, you have to use the software (unless you hack it).

But no mods or user content. Cos it will unleash the apocalypse. You'll all die.Horribly. Honest.

"As the owner of a totally worthless WM phone, unfortunately I do. Rebranding the failed WinCE to WM doesn't all of a sudden make it a success."

Ehm, apparently it did as they seem to be growing exponentially.

" MS has been struggling for years to get a strong position in the mobile phone market but has failed so far. And there's little hope for the future."

lol.

As an owner and developer on the said platform (a smartphone for 18 euro with a 12,5 euro subscription, who could resist really), I would almost say that I've become dependant on it for running my business.

"So I'm right, you never owned a Zune and therefore talking complete bs... I'd be curious to see you elaborate on this when you know nothing about the actual product."

It seems to be an odd habit. Passing a blatantly wrong judgement merely on the claim of having played the demo.

"So I'm right, you never owned a Zune and therefore talking complete bs... I'd be curious to see you elaborate on this when you know nothing about the actual product."

Man, I get so ridiculously tired of that argument... I've never put my hand for an extended period in fire but I'm positive it will not be a worthwhile endeavor. There are other ways of getting information on a product than buying it and using it. Like I said, the Zune does nothing special compared to the iPod, that's pretty well documented all over the net. You can hate iPods and I don't blame you and I wouldn't care. There's such a thing as personal preferences after all. But the Zune works so hard to be an iPod and fails on about every aspect bar brand name, that I find it hard to believe someone that hates the iPod would love the Zune (unless you really want to have a subscription based music service but there aren't many).

"les, unlike most opinionated dweebs such as yourself there isn't really a distinction between liking an mp3 player, and hating an mp3 player."

?! Does this make sense?

"You appear to easily dismiss the zune software, hardware combo as well as suggestions that you're quick to poo poo most other microsoft initiatives."

Yes, because most of them are crap which is something different than what you seem to be suggesting. And before all the fanboys show up, I think the 360 is one of their non-crap products.

"Passing a blatantly wrong judgement merely on the claim of having played the demo."

Ridiculous remark, thought you were smarter than that. I don't like it, my opinion, can't be wrong. I hate Oblivion as well which unfortunately I only discovered after getting the game. I'm glad Bioshock had a demo, saved me some money. You hate HL which I like very much. Different people, different tastes.

If Zune were suddenly supported to DS or PSP levels by Microsoft as a handheld game platform, then it would be a damn sight less pointless. It'd turn from an awkward, uncool-branded MP3 player to the first major handheld console with a built-in hard drive.

If they just release a half-arsed bunch of games on it like Apple have done with the ipod, though, it will remain as pointless and futile as it always has been.

I'm not into these other technology fangle, but as someone who works in the mobile industry, I can tell you that WM OS is making in-roads into the industry.

Heck, even sony ericsson (who have shares in symbian) have dropped the sympian OS in favour of WM.

"what there is still has apple doing its usual feature lift from microsoft"

LOL once again. This really is a LOL thread :D

The Zune is better than every iPod bar the Touch, feature wise no contest and looks are pretty close as well, giving the nod to the iPod range for thinness.You are just a tool if you think otherwise. iTunes as great software, please it's get's worse with every release and Zune software approach I don't really care for, would of preferred something more open and then use any music store like Amazon to get music which is taking off very well. DRM free and a higher bit rate.

It's early days and Zune is already number 2 behind the iPod in sales, yea humongous gap but obviously so. Microsoft is just getting started, making the brand bigger, making people want it. They say 2009 for a European release which means Zune version 3. Trying to catch the iPod is a massive task and so far they are doing fine. Give Microsoft a break and stop being clueless and narrow minded.

"You are just a tool if you think otherwise."

Personally, I think people making statements like this are tools...

Nice argument, I win.

Les, I think your massive anti-Microsoft bias makes your entire opinion on this matter completely moot.

I think *everyone* knows that the iPod is a piece of crap, it's an extremely frustrating and over priced piece of technology. You can buy mobile phones for literrely half the price that have all the same features of the iPhone, and even have higher quality sound output and work much better as phones. I'd buy a Zune over an iPhone any day, simply so I don't have be forced into a 12 month contract.

Face it, people don't buy iPod's for their functionality, they buy them because they're sexy. They're a fashion accessory.

Thanks for the giggles.

"Ridiculous remark, thought you were smarter than that. I don't like it, my opinion, can't be wrong. I hate Oblivion as well which unfortunately I only discovered after getting the game. I'm glad Bioshock had a demo, saved me some money. You hate HL which I like very much. Different people, different tastes."

No it isn't. Opinions can be wrong if they don't say represent the facts or dislike something without actually having handson experience. As for me being 'smarter than that', I'm not the one passing out judgement without actually having experience with it. I don't hate halflife. Halflife was a good game for it's time and set the mark. I dislike HL2 as it seems to cling to HL 1 in many ways while HL1 has been outdone since then in so many ways. Unlike you however, my opinion is based on actually playing through the game (multiple times actually) and the expansions. Opinions are based on interpretations of facts. If you didn't play a game, at best you can say that either you don't like the genre (based on previous experiences) or don't like the art style (based on what's released).

That's not the point though. The point is that you seem to have the constant habit of posting opinion as fact - before you ask, read up and other threads.

"Opinions can be wrong if they don't say represent the facts or dislike something without actually having handson experience."

The handson experience is bullshit, like I explained above, but remains very popular over here. Useless rhetoric strategy.

"I'm not the one passing out judgement without actually having experience with it."

Neither am I.

“Unlike you however, my opinion is based on actually playing through the game (multiple times actually) and the expansions."

You still going on about Bioshock... *sigh* Like I said many, many, many, many, many, etc. times before, I'm perfectly capable of forming an opinion about the demo, which I hated, for various reasons. Chances that I’d actually enjoy the full version are zero. And on a side note, given that time is fairly scarce, I’d rather not play through a full game that I hate and certainly not multiple times. Seems like an enormous waste of time to me.

“Opinions are based on interpretations of facts. If you didn't play a game, at best you can say that either you don't like the genre (based on previous experiences) or don't like the art style (based on what's released).”

Or you can read through reviews, screen shots, play demos and use other sources of information and form an opinion about the game. Like we all do. 99% of games you don’t buy, without ever having them played. You too are perfectly capable of determining when not to bother.

“The point is that you seem to have the constant habit of posting opinion as fact”

No, most of the time I’m just posting my opinion and stating what made me form it. But it’s funny it gets so many people upset. It’s just an opinion. I don’t care about yours, why should you about mine?

“Les, I think your massive anti-Microsoft bias makes your entire opinion on this matter completely moot.”

Good for you. I do think (in most cases based on extensive personal experience, apparently you lot around here value that very much…) that the majority of their products I’ve been exposed too is crap. Maybe that’s bias: I certainly look with more scrutiny at stuff that’s coming from their side, but I don’t outright dismiss it. I don’t have much respect for the illegal conduct of the company’s leadership. Could be bias too. And again, knowing that a company actively pursues ways to make money that are violating laws to protect the interests of me, the consumer, makes me think two or three times before committing to their products.

But in the end I rate every product/service on similar criteria.

"I think *everyone* knows that the iPod is a piece of crap, it's an extremely frustrating and over priced piece of technology."

The market disagrees with you. But it's still a valid opinion. Don't buy them.

'Face it, people don't buy iPod's for their functionality, they buy them because they're sexy. They're a fashion accessory."

It's the complete package, though each person will value the components differently. For some, it will be about ease of use. For others it will be about the looks. And there are people that get them because they hope it will make them look cool... And there are the people that hate them because everybody likes them. Or don't like the ease of use because they enjoy tinkering with gadgets. Or have brains that are wired differently than most of us and don't think they're easy to use. Different people, different tastes.

Nobody is interested. Waste of resources and time. I had a Zune for a while then sold it, much happier with my ipod touch.

folks jz buy the Samsung YP-P3 or Sony X-Series .. I mean Zune is never going to what we've hoped for!