Xbox 360 vs. PS3 Face-Off: Round Five

By Richard Leadbetter Published 8 November, 2007

Once more unto the breach, dear friends...

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Once more Eurogamer returns to the front line trenches of the Xbox 360/PlayStation 3 console war with the latest in our continuing series of cross-platform confrontations. This time the coverage is bigger and better than ever before, featuring more games, more comparison shot galleries, and more detail on the behind-the-scenes technical trickery employed.

As per usual, each game's video output is captured digitally and losslessly from the HDMI ports of the Xbox 360 Elite and PlayStation 3 respectively, both set to full range RGB output, with every last byte of video information being ingested at full 24-bit precision by a Digital Foundry HD capture station. Equivalent shots from both versions of each game are then extracted for your critical pleasure, both at 720p and if the PS3 version supports it, 1080p.

So, onto the line-up of games then - five highly rated 'original IPs', and four not-so-impressive summer movie tie-ins:

Special thanks go to Beyond3D's 'Quaz51' for his online analysis of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix plus his patented 'what resolution is game X really running at' methodology.

Virtua Fighter 5

OK, so everyone's read the internet and indeed the Eurogamer reviews - so we all know what the score is here. Virtua Fighter 5 is one of the few games to launch first on PlayStation 3, before turning up seven months later on 360 in a repackaged format boasting smoother anti-aliased graphics, superior CPU AI, an enhanced single-player mode and of course the all-powerful - almost sexual - allure of Xbox Live multiplayer.

But behind the headlines, I think what impresses me most about the Xbox 360 rendition of the game are the changes less worthy of a press announcement - because they reveal more than anything an extra-special level of attention to detail AM2 has brought to bear on this release; a real devotion to going the extra mile and getting the best possible game out there.

AM2 could've just reused the intro movie from the PS3 game. They didn't. They crafted a brand new, rather spiffing one. They could've reused the same replay data from the exhibition mode of the older conversion for VF.TV on 360 (assuming the arcade version C upgrade to the game logic would allow it). They didn't - which made taking the comparison shots much more of an ordeal than if they did. All throughout the game you'll notice tweaks here and additions there that show this is a piece of work that had heart and soul put into it. Often maligned by the Western audience, there's a palpable sense that AM2 saw this 360 conversion as a chance to evangelise the world's best 3D fighting game to a new set of gamers who hadn't given it a chance before - and it's really difficult not to appreciate that.

'Xbox 360 vs. PS3 Face-Off: Round Five' Screenshot vf1

Of course, the headline enhancements are worthy of the lion's share of the comment. Yes, there is anti-aliasing on the visuals, but as you can see from the comparison shots, the difference is barely noticeable - even the 360 rendition has its share of 'jaggies' if you're anal enough to scrutinise the screens closely enough (that Shun shot for starters). And anti-aliasing isn't always a visual boon for me in many cases any way. For every smoothed-off edge the 360 version has, the PS3 game has a certain smidgen of additional clarity to the point where neither version really looks any better than the other. Also, the 360 game's pre-fight posing sequences are occasionally prone to the tiniest v-lock screen tear (always at the bottom tenth of screen if you're crazy enough to want to look for it) which is not present in the PS3 version.

Both games are capable of outputting 1920x1080 to a 1080i or 1080p screen, but scaling is involved in either case. The 360 GPU works well blowing up anti-aliased images and offers up an excellent image (especially as it seems to using a base 1024x1024 image), but the PS3 resizing method is far less appealing. The fact that you need to disable 720p in your XMB to get it running proves that AM2 would rather your display did the scaling from the game's native 720p resolution.

Single-player offers up definite advantages for the 360 owner, with superior AI and a more rounded Quest Mode with more items. All of which counted for naught with me because my 360 controller proved to be totally inadequate for the task of actually playing the game. Even Akira's simple double kick (forward, forward, kick, kick) managed to be beyond the scope of my wireless controller. The inclusion of analogue support was even less help - this is a game with a digital control system, after all. It's as alien a concept as controlling a PC FPS with a joystick. Yes, there are Hori arcade sticks to buy, and simple mods for improving d-pad response to get you back into the game. Yet curiously, in my case, going 'old-skool' and switching to the wired USB controller Microsoft helpfully included in the devkit 'extra goodies' box yielded dividends. But speaking as a VF veteran, up until I reached that point, I found even the simplest moves inordinately difficult to pull off - something I never had any problem with whilst wielding the Sixaxis.

Online is certainly an interesting experience, and as I live in a faraway land, lag issues in any online game are more readily apparent (which is actually kind of useful when figuring out how these things work). But put simply: if you want to win, hosting the game offers a whopping great advantage in terms of control as opposed to joining an existing session where the response to your every command is beholden to the latency of your connection with the host. In a game where the peers have a low ping, it'll be far less noticeable, but it's always going to be there to some extent and the nature of latency is that it is rarely constant, so even the best players will be constantly forced to adapt. Don't get me wrong, it works, it adds a new dimension to the game, and I'm glad it's there - just be aware of the one-sided advantage inherent in this mode.

Overall, Virtua Fighter 5 on Xbox 360 takes the brilliant work AM2 did on the original PS3 game and improves on it from a gameplay perspective - but the jury is still out on whether the graphical differences offer any real tangible improvement (though the new water effects do look nice). Certainly the first order of business for any 360 owner before buying the game should be in sorting out any d-pad issues. The demo is invaluable for this, mostly thanks to its inclusion of Akira as a playable character with his myriad techniques that require absolute command of your controller. For PS3 owners, the inescapable conclusion is that the current game is effectively unfinished. At the very least, you'd hope that AM2 will cater to its core audience (who most likely bought the game on PS3) and come up with an upgrade patch that at least offers parity with the 360 game.

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Comments (198) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • quantumsheep #1 4 years ago

    here we go...

  • Big-Swiss #2 4 years ago

    round four: fight!

  • sopje #3 4 years ago

    Some sales figures would make the picture complete...

  • Nick261007 #4 4 years ago

    I thought the rumble in Sega rally actually added a lot to the game, to say otherwise is to downplay the 360 version just to try and balance your face off thingy.

    The reality is that the only game really worth buying out of all of those is VF5 and it's a lot better on 360

    so 360 wins again.

  • Heitzu #5 4 years ago

    Your link to round up one doesn't work.

  • philw #6 4 years ago

    Now I know why everyone puts Nick on ignore.

  • bdc #7 4 years ago

    PS3 gets it's ass kicked again... and again... and again

  • ne0star #8 4 years ago

    Eh way to go on contradicting yourselves.

    Taken from your own article:

    This point was further emphasised when SEGA Rally came out in September on PS3 and 360. The stunning combination of deformable terrain and vibration made a palpable difference to how you played the game. As much the whole idea about deformable terrain sounded like PR spin, once you actually got to play the game for any length of time, there was absolutely no way you'd want to play it on a system that didn't allow you to experience it as the developer intended. It proved, beyond any doubt, that utilising vibration techniques in a clever way could enhance the driving experience in a measurable sense.

  • Blerk #9 4 years ago

    Wait! Was it my imagination, or did the PS3 actually "win" a couple of those? :-D

  • Garulon #10 4 years ago

    "PS3 gets it's ass kicked again... and again... and again "

    Not to any enourmous "this is unplayable" degree on the titles listed though, except maybe Skate. If you're one of those cats hoping for "twice the power" to magically spring forth on the PS3 though, I'd stop hoping if I were you.

  • Monkey_Puncher #11 4 years ago

    PS3 the console to buy if you want more detail in Harry Potter!

    I should do Sony's PR...

    /troll

  • krudster #12 4 years ago

    Rich makes it plain from the outset that he didn't share the love for Sega Rally that I did, so it's hardly surprising he also disagrees about the importance of rumble. Personally, I found it got more important the further into the game you got. I'm not sure how far Rich got.

  • ralphwolfenstein #13 4 years ago

    "Equivalent shots from both versions of each game are then extracted for your critical pleasure, both at 720p and if the PS3 version supports it, 1080p"

    I feel a delicious ripple of irony each and every time I read that bit

  • Gurgeh #14 4 years ago

    Sales figures of a sort:

    Electronic Arts software sales by platform, July to September 2007:
    Xbox 360 - $218 million
    PlayStation 2 - $73 million
    Nintendo Wii - $59 million
    Nintendo DS - $47 million
    PlayStation Portable - $21 million
    PlayStation 3 - $17 million

  • sickpuppysoftware #15 4 years ago

    Strange, I've been playing Skate on the PS3 with no real juddering at all. That's on an old school PAL CRT TV with absolutely no hidef features at all.

    Maybe I'm blessed

  • krudster #16 4 years ago

    That'll be because you're running it at the lowest resolution.

  • drumbaby #17 4 years ago

    7.1 sound in PS3 Dirt too.

  • projectmayhem #18 4 years ago

    I thought it was PS3 vs. 360? Why was FIFA08 a FIFA vs. PES affair?

  • Garulon #19 4 years ago

    "That's on an old school PAL CRT TV with absolutely no hidef features at all.

    Maybe I'm blessed"

    Maybe it don't judder at 480p?

  • gizmo #20 4 years ago

    360 wins again. Interesting.

  • aldo_14 #21 4 years ago

    I can't help but wonder how much of the differences are down to porting from (leading on) 360 to PS3, how much are due to the Ps3s reputed bastard of an architecture, and indeed what it indicates about the true merits of each console. I guess we'll know once (if) we start seeing more Ps3 to 360 ports (although if VF is any indication....).

  • gizmo #22 4 years ago

    Actually, PS3 frame rate issues seem to be quite a common theme. So much for the power of the cell.

  • Kami #23 4 years ago

    Espeically looking at VF5, I don't really get it. It's perfectly nice and shiny either way - one just seems to have darker shadows. That's not exactly end-of-the-world stuff...

    edit @ Gizmo; I think I read a while ago that the problem the PS3 has is the Cell isn't optimised for its purpose. Whilst powerful, it's not really a "gaming" thing. Whilst the 360, with a weaker processor, is designed from the ground up purely for gaming. Not sure how much of it is true though...
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 15:47

  • redneon Verified Programmer, SUMO Digital #24 4 years ago

    "Maybe it don't judder at 480p?"

    It's 480i on a standard CRT (for the most part, anyway).
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 15:50

  • Xerx3s #25 4 years ago

    They are both crap, C64 clearly beats them both.

  • Xerx3s #26 4 years ago

    Now I know why everyone puts Nick on ignore.

    Who? ¬_¬

  • Xerx3s #27 4 years ago

    Common EG, next time include the wii! That way we can really have a cage fight in here.

    Trust me, advertisers will love it! XD

  • JohnnyWashnGo #28 4 years ago

    I think Sonys problem is that the PS3 suffers from a real identity crisis or even a multiple personality complex.

    The Xbox360 knows what it is good for, playing epic, pretty, shooty games that adolescents love.

    The Wii knows that it is good for everyone. The control system sets it aside from other entertainment machines and forces developers to invest some time writing software for it and not just provide title after title of shovelware.

    The PS3 hasn't got a clue what it does. Does it play films? Does it play games? Does it perform scientific number crunching? Does it have a motion sensitive controller or a regular controller? Does the controller rumble? Does it have backwards compatibility?

    More than anything else, this lack of focus on gaming for their next generation games machine is hurting Sony. And by extension causing developers headaches. This will be the reason for Sonys 3rd place position this generation when the history books are written :)

  • TriggerHippie #29 4 years ago

    "PS3 gets it's ass kicked again... and again... and again"

    Maybe you should actually read the article before stampeding to the forums.

  • Garulon #30 4 years ago

    ""Maybe it don't judder at 480p?"

    It's 480i on a standard CRT (for the most part, anyway)."

    Yes that's true but the way a frame buffer would work typically is it'd fill 480 lines worth of game, then the video out circuitry would scan the odd and even lines for each frame. That way you get 480p for "free".

    "that the problem the PS3 has is the Cell isn't optimised for its purpose. Whilst powerful, it's not really a "gaming" thing. Whilst the 360, with a weaker processor, is designed from the ground up purely for gaming"

    I'm hearing from beyond3d who have a good thread up about this is that they have about the same amount of power, it's just easier working on the 360 and RSX has a 4+ year old architecture compared to Xenos. There's also more RAM on the 360 and more support for the OS - for example, friends list management is done for you on the 360, on the PS3 it's something you cook yourself.

  • Moz #31 4 years ago

    From that I'd personally conclude that things are looking up for the PS3 other then skate any game of worth is holding it's own on PS3.

    Most of the games that are bad on PS3 aren't great on the 360 to start with.

    So as ever 360 has a slight edge graphically and when people put the effort into a port it turns out fine on the PS3.

    What I think the industry is starting to learn is that the 2 systems are too different to just port games from one to the other. And that they need to put in the effort adjusting the textures and models between systems.

    As far as I'm concerned it's an exclusives war.

  • Garulon #32 4 years ago

    "Common EG, next time include the wii! That way we can really have a cage fight in here."

    The Wii's just a GC with a bit more RAM and clock though, from a purely technical persepective it'd get creamed by either console. It's funny these pissing matches, it's like Godzilla vs Mothra, even matched but they're both fucking monsters. Throwing in the Wii is like Godzilla vs Mothra vs Paul Daniels.

  • Kenshin001 #33 4 years ago

    "As per usual, each game's video output is captured digitally and losslessly from the HDMI ports of the Xbox 360 Elite and PlayStation 3 respectively..."

    Shame the vast majority of 360s don't have HDMI ports.

  • Garulon #34 4 years ago

    "Shame the vast majority of 360s don't have HDMI ports. "

    Shame the vast majority of 360s have perfectly good component ports.

  • TriggerHippie #35 4 years ago

    "Godzilla vs Mothra vs Paul Daniels"

    rofl classic! You'll like this, not a lot.

  • Xerx3s #36 4 years ago

    <a href='http ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ_T7GnAmrE&eurl='>And so it begins...</a>

  • TriggerHippie #37 4 years ago

    Mothra sucked ass though, except for those chicks dancing to wake it up. Rodan FTW!

  • philw #38 4 years ago

    Godzilla vs Mothra vs Paul Daniels

    That sounds like the best game ever

  • statix101 #39 4 years ago

    You can really tell that these 2 consoles are using top end gfx cards from PC's circa late 2005.

    Back then ATI's cards had the best image quality and colour definition by far compared to Nvidia's offerings.

    That shot of Virtua Fighter 5 really shows this to be the case.

    Its the other way around these days, with most gfx whores saying that Nvidia's Image quality has overtaken ATI's.

  • themerlin13 #40 4 years ago

    Thought it was KO win to 360 20 seconds in to round one?
    Then went on to kick the KO'ed PS3 on the floor in rounds 2 and 3, then round four got board and pulled out a pair of mini guns and decimated the sorry corpse??

    TBH think little big planet, and GT5 are gonna help ps3. But think MGS might be worth waiting to see if it sneaks up on Sony and cuts there throats in the night!!

  • Garulon #41 4 years ago

    "You can really tell that these 2 consoles are using top end gfx cards from PC's circa late 2005."

    The PS3 is sorta, the 360 is using one hell of a wacky GFX chip though that doesn't have a PC equivelent.

  • Apologie #42 4 years ago

    Face-off's don't mean shit... everyone knows that the Ps3 have big potential ready to be unlocked as the programmers start to understand the hardware better, and these games are shit... ate least fot me.
    The only cross platform game i care about is Call of Duty 4, and that game is better (graphics wise) for the Ps3.
    We start to see beautifull games like Ratchet and Uncharted, Metal Gear4, Killzone 2, Gt5 that put any of thouse in a garbage can... Programmers fault, not the hardware. The Ps3 is more then capable of dealing with that list...
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 16:22

  • gizmo #43 4 years ago

    ^Heh, can anyone see the common theme?

  • Garulon #44 4 years ago

    "The only cross platform game i care about is Call of Duty 4, and that game is better (graphics wise) for the Ps3."

    Nope, the 360 and PS3 versions look almost exactly the same.

    "everyone knows that the Ps3 have big potential ready to be unlocked"

    Again nope, I mean it does, but no more than the 360 also has big potential ready to be unlocked. If you think it's going to race ahead of the 360, prepare for disappointment. Sony have lied to you.

  • Garulon #45 4 years ago

    Which is weird that people don't get that. "Oh yeah, they lied about back compat and rumble, but the power thing? Why would they lie about that?"

  • Velios #46 4 years ago

    I think the point is MATE, that we have to actually SEE a tangible difference in the games before we splash out the extra cash for the PS3, which as of right now is failing to capture the public imagination in epic style.

    It may well be the programmers inability / budget restraints whatever that prevent PS3 from coming out on top, but this means jack shit to the average non-fanboi customer who looks at price, choice of games and quality before making that purchase.

    Things need to change, I see far too many dusty PS3 boxes knocking around the shops.

    Give me a clear cut reason to buy one and I will, but atm it's just an over priced blu-ray player.

    How d'ya like thems potatoes!

  • Rodney #47 4 years ago

    Apologie,

    what makes you think the PS3 has so much potential ready to be untapped? I mean, its fairly obvious the games will get better as in every other console cycle, but doesnt that both apply to both machines?

  • MasterNameless #48 4 years ago

    Some people follow their own console so tirelessly, even if the manufacturer's CEO were to visit their house and crap on their living room carpet, they'd probably just mount it in a display case.

    @Xerx3s - I didn't see Paul Daniels in that video anywhere... is he in the sequel? ^_^

  • Garulon #49 4 years ago

    " I didn't see Paul Daniels in that video anywhere... is he in the sequel? ^_^ "

    He was busy servicing Debbie McGee as it's well known she married him because he was a SEX GOD and nothing to do with him owning huge amounts of money/convenient.

  • MilkYMoO #50 4 years ago

    The 360 truly is one hell of machine. When I bought it, I knew it was a powerful machine but I was expecting the ps3 to be more powerful. So I'm sure like many other 360 owners are right now, I'm even more happy because it looks like its at least as powerful if not more powerful than the ps3. And with all the fantastic games available to play right now for it and future titles like mass effect, I think I can say that the 360 might eventually end up being celebrated like the snes and dreamcast as one of the greatest systems ever. As a multiplatform gamer for it seems like ages, I'll say it again what a fantastic machine the 360 is.
    Edited by 3 at 08/11/07 @ 16:44

  • glaeken #51 4 years ago

    I think the 360's long term reputation will forever be hit by just how unreliable the hardware is. If they had not had the hardware issues it may well have been remembered as a classic.

    Being on my 3rd 360 now in the space of a year I feel fairly qualified to make this statement.

  • Apologie #52 4 years ago

    The Cell Processor is essentially as powerful as 3 Xbox 360 CPU or 35 PlayStation 2 CPU... so my friend, you'r wrong..., Ps3 is more capable then the X360, it´s just a matter of time for games like Uncharted, or even better start to appear. Not to mention the advantage of BRay in terms of data storage
    Edited by 2 at 08/11/07 @ 16:49

  • Garulon #53 4 years ago

    "But when developers who aren't lazy like EA, code a PS3 game, it's just as good graphically (If not better) compared to what the 360 can do. Just look at Rachet and Clank, It's one of the best looking games, graphically, I have seen this generation."

    Are you saying the 360 couldn't do rachet and clank? Because it could. Quite easily in fact.

  • pjmaybe #54 4 years ago

    'bout time SOMEONE on the review staff started seeing tearing...


    Peej

  • Kryon #55 4 years ago

    Hahahaaa Sony am cry!

  • Garulon #56 4 years ago

    "The Cell Processor is essentially as powerful as 3 Xbox 360 CPU"

    What are you basing that on?

    Let me put it this way - if that were true, wouldn't all 360 titles ported over run better on the 360 instead of quite a bit worse?
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 16:51

  • glaeken #57 4 years ago

    Ha that Apologie bloke is funny is he here all week?

  • jonnyreb #58 4 years ago

    but teh cell!

  • Garulon #59 4 years ago

    "Ha that Apologie bloke is funny is he here all week? "

    You'd think after a year of these bakeoffs at least some kind of reality would sink in even amongst the die hards, wouldn't you? Hey Apologie is rumble a last-gen future or something you're really looking forwards to?

  • Apologie #60 4 years ago

    Garulon

    Let me put it this way - if that were true, wouldn't all 360 titles ported over run better on the 360 instead of quite a bit worse?

    ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------

    that's because cross platform games are not develop 1st for the Ps3..., the port's are difficult to make (new system).
    And that's not true.., Dirt, Oblivion, Darkness, Fight Night 3... where equally good, some even better, like Oblivion and Dirt.

  • teabagger #61 4 years ago

    Oh dear. Yet another round of drawing ballshit conclusions about the relative capabilities of a system based on cross platform games that will, for the most part, have lead on the 360 and then ported to PS3.
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 17:02

  • Azazel #62 4 years ago

    As Bill Hicks once said, "A war is when two armies are fighting."

    He said this to point out the disparity in the forces fighting the Gulf War (part I).

    Of course in this case neither party is an army.

    So really it's all just a Mongolian Cluster-Fuck of retardation.

  • Kryon #63 4 years ago

    I'm just astounded that the PS3 doesn't seem to be able to anti-alias? Didn't Sony learn from their last piss box that it would be a nice feature?

  • zuljin #64 4 years ago

    @pjmaybe
    "'bout time SOMEONE on the review staff started seeing tearing..."

    Have they hired Darren?

  • Garulon #65 4 years ago

    "although not perfect, appears to be throwing out some wonderful visuals at a very early stage of the PS3's lifecycle"

    Yes it looks lovely, matching the 360 sometimes, but look at the PS2 vs Xbox 1 - now that was an obvious power difference!

    The Xbox 1 looked a hell of a lot better than the PS2 day one, and kept looking better throughout it's lifecycle, and even the laziest most slapdash PS2 port ran smoother and better on the Xbox than the PS2.

    There's going to be almost nothing to choose between the two machines in terms of visuals throughout their lifecycles, and I think the sooner everyone accepts that the happier we'll all be as gamers.

  • zuljin #66 4 years ago

    @Azazel
    "So really it's all just a Mongolian Cluster-Fuck of retardation."

    Are you still talking about the consoles or about the comments thread?

  • Garulon #67 4 years ago

    "that's because cross platform games are not develop 1st for the Ps3..., the port's are difficult to make (new system)."

    The XBox 1 was a new system, and obviously visually creamed the PS2 from day one. What's the PS3's excuse?

  • bdc #68 4 years ago

    Hey Apologie !

    Shut the fuck up !

    AHAHAHAH

  • Kryon #69 4 years ago

    lol

  • Garulon #70 4 years ago

    "that will, for the most part, have lead on the 360 and then ported to PS3."

    You know, I think jonnyrebs right, the fanbois have actually managed to construct a religion over a couple of bullshit slides about single-precision floating point shown off by Ken Kutaragi back when the PS3 was half-finished. No amount of empirical evidence will dissuade their faith that the PS3 is going to suddenly blossom into an amazing Twice The Powah system. The recent complete 180s Sony have done about rumble and BC have just hardened their faith, like whenever Jehovah's Witnesses set a date for the second coming and nothing happens, their membership actually goes up.

    "but teh cell!"

  • captainrentboy #71 4 years ago

    A few days back I found Aplogie's comments kind of funny in an endearing, sad kind of way, but now he's beggining to get particularly tiresome, always with the same old shitty comments, infact in today's section it's like he's whizzed back to early 2006, with classics like ''The Cell Processor is essentially as powerful as 3 Xbox 360 CPU or 35 PlayStation 2 CPU''. Statements like that were wonderful and awe inspiring before the PS3 came out, but nowadays we can all, well nearly all, see that those crazy specs amount to sweet FA in reality.
    Not one single PS3 game, whether released already or coming out in the distant future looks like it wouldn't be able to be done on the 360 too.
    This crappy console war no longer comes down to specs, as the Wii clearly proves, it's the amount of tasty exclusives all the way baby.

  • JediMasterMalik #72 4 years ago

    The situation seems to be improving, but really, why so many crap games none of us care about?

  • Garulon #73 4 years ago

    "Aplogie's comments kind of funny in an endearing, sad kind of way"

    I'm wondering if he's one of those Microsoft plants that Sony fanbois talk about.

    Then I wonder if they're plants meant to discredit Sony fanbois.

    Then I wonder they're both plants in an elegant doublethink exercise by Microsoft.

    Then I go and have a lie down.

  • Kryon #74 4 years ago

    I actually used to think that Apologie and TRUTH were the same person just having a laugh...but now I realise that Apologie is far more retarded
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 17:20

  • BBIAJ #75 4 years ago

    @ Xiphos:

    How can you say that the PS3 version of SEGA Rally is ahead of the 360 version?

    Can you not see the God awful blur-o~vision filter it's been mangled through!?

    Oh, and lol at the "Have they hired Darren?" comment, haha!

  • Azazel #76 4 years ago

    @zuljin:

    This thread, the console wars, everything! Argh! /kills self

    /unkills self, is only 2 seasons in to the Sopranos

  • captainrentboy #77 4 years ago

    Exactly Kryon, I assumed he was having a laugh and taking the piss a bit, but no, he infact really does LOVE the PS3 that much. Which seems just a lil crazy.

  • Kryon #78 4 years ago

    Apologie am cry when Sony am cry I guess XD

  • Kryon #79 4 years ago

    @farticusmaximus

    I'm pretty sure Apologie isn't from the UK. I heard he was a swamp being, a slightly less evolved version of a ferret.

  • el_pollo_diablo #80 4 years ago

    Interesting article, if totally and utterly pointless.

    I mean, the vast majority of people will own one or the other console, not both. And as long as game X looks good enough and works well enough on the one that you happen to have under the telly at home - who cares which one is 'better'?

    It's articles like this that fan the flames of fanboyism.

  • Zelos #81 4 years ago

    @Apologie
    "The Cell Processor is essentially as powerful as 3 Xbox 360 CPU"

    Do you have some tech specs which prove that?

    Most of what I've seen puts the PS3's floating point CPU performance advantage at about 50-60%. 6 SPEs available to games at 26GfLops each = 156Gflops, plus whatever the SIMD unit on the PPE does, makes maybe 180 or so.

    That's compared to the 360's declared 116Gflops or so.

  • Kryon #82 4 years ago

    @Zelos

    Nah, Apologie's definitely right, the PS3 flops alot more than the 360 ;-)

  • JediMasterMalik #83 4 years ago

    This thread makes baby jesus cry.

  • imperial_seal #84 4 years ago

    Still, the problem for the majority of 360 owners they will not have it on 1080p since they don't have a HDMI port. I am a bit pissed about that, I bought the 360 as soon as it came out and no HDMI, now its broken and I just can't be bothered to send to MS for repair again ! I just stick to my more stable PS3 with HDMI, thanks !

  • skillian #85 4 years ago

    It is the worst thread I've read for months.

  • monkie_king #86 4 years ago

    is that imperial_seal as in the aquatic mammal?

    @Garulon: you're absolutely correct about that (though it was a UFO doomsday cult that Festinger based his theory on). Check out the Cognitive Dissonance page on Wikipedia -- I think Apologie's posting history would be a good example to link from that article.

    It's basically your brain sticking its fingers in its ears and going "Lalalala! I can't hear you!", when confronted with information that conflicts with your worldview.

    (edit: can't spell dissonance)
    Edited by 2 at 08/11/07 @ 17:49

  • Fitzmogwai #87 4 years ago

    People! Can't we all just... get along?

    Of course not. Never mind. What disappoints me is that there's all this infighting and bickering over what (with two honourable exceptions) are such crappy games.

    Let's make up and be friendly - and then raise our pitchforks, light the torches, and march on the offices of the publishers who foist this stinking effluent on us.

    Gamers - to the barricades!


    Edited to correct the unforgivable typo. Rest assured, the stenographer has been suitably chastised.
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 17:50

  • LPXO #88 4 years ago

    COD4 HD comparison

    [link url=http:// www.gametrailers.com/player/27570.html
    ]http://ww w.gametrailers.com/player/27570...[/link]

  • Kryon #89 4 years ago

    @imperial_seal

    So you're just going to let your broken £280 console rot instead of sending it in for a free repair? STFU, even if you really didn't want the 360 anymore, you'd get it fixed and trade it in for all those 'great' PS3 games available, surely?

  • Apologie #90 4 years ago

    There is a trade-off between performance and versatility, since PS3's Cell processor allows more features, better physics, more complex graphical processing, lighting or sound, there is inevitably going to be more cost in supporting those extra features. It's not that PS3 is harder to write for, it's just that you can do more with it. If a game starts life on PS3, then man-hours per feature or costs related to asset production are comparable with industry norms.
    Of course, we all know that more and more games are going multi-platform. Even Sony stalwarts like Square-Enix are testing the waters of the Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii. It's tough to port to the PS3

  • Nick261007 #91 4 years ago

    Sure the 360 will be remembered for the failure rate, but when mine broke I went straight out and bought another. PS3 and Wii didn't even cross my mind. Mario Galaxy has made me want a Wii but I can probably resist that for another year.

    Reason I went out and got another was for Mass effect, Bioshock, Halo 3, and amazing third party titles like COD4, Assassin's creed.

    Sure PS3 has those third party games but PS3 has been to little to late imo, maybe that will change but at the moment I really don't want one.

  • Fitzmogwai #92 4 years ago

    Actually, ignore my previous comment. Let's all gang up and club Apologie and imperial_seal to death.

    Gamers! To the barricades!

  • Wobble #93 4 years ago

    The situation seems to be improving, but really, why so many crap games none of us care about?

    Because they had to stick to ones released on the PS3.

    ThankyouI'llbehereallnight.Trytheveal.

  • Kryon #94 4 years ago

    @Apologie

    So why is VF5 on the 360 graphically better than the PS3 version, check the comparisons and think AA (I meant anti-alias but yeah I believe you have a drink problem too)...

  • monkie_king #95 4 years ago

    Apologie, could you please direct me to some of those games that have superior physics, lighting, sound, more features etc.? I'd be interested to read reviews of them.

    What's that? Oh, they're not out yet? But someone at Sony told you they'd be really good? Well, it must be true then!

  • monkie_king #96 4 years ago

    @Fitzmogwai: I think you'll find that clubbing seals is frowned upon, imperial or not.

  • J*C #97 4 years ago

    360 wins again.

  • Kryon #98 4 years ago

    It's actually encouraged to club spasticated seals so I think we're alright here.

  • muftak #99 4 years ago

    im sorry but i play skate religiously @1080p on my PS3 and the only time ive had any sort of judder or shudder was for about 1 sec in multi player and never in single player


    as ive said before is there any point to these they are just flame bait

  • Kryon #100 4 years ago

    muftak in "I can't believe its not shudder" PS3 commercial!

  • evilboo #101 4 years ago

    No-one should get too upset by this .. it is just funny to laugh at PS3 owners for a while.

    Maybe one day their games will be better and it will be their turn to laugh.

    Until then .. hahahahahahaha

    I'm a very small person in many ways.

  • QPRHOOPS81 #102 4 years ago

    "@Apologie

    So why is VF5 on the 360 graphically better than the PS3 version, check the comparisons and think AA (I meant anti-alias but yeah I believe you have a drink problem too)..."

    to be fair it came out 7 months later.

    bit like oblivion being better on ps3. Its going to be better if devs have longer to work on it. Damn i told myself i wouldn't contribute to this thread.

  • Kryon #103 4 years ago

    @QPRHOOPS81

    would the extra dev time make that much difference if the PS3 was really 3 times more powerful than the 360 as Apologie claims? Me thinks not matey!

    Edit - Also, just like to add, that my statement was in reply to Apologie's claim that a game that started out life as a PS3 game and was then ported to 360 would be better on the PS3 so it's kind of a no brainer that the 360 version would come out later really...
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 18:30

  • Garulon #104 4 years ago

    "Sure the 360 will be remembered for the failure rate, but when mine broke I went straight out and bought another."

    Why do people do this? Mine broke, Microsoft picked it up, fixed it inside two weeks and sent it back, for free, with a nice apology, one of those new system boards with Special Magic that stops it breaking (and is quieter to boot) and a free month of Gold.

  • Garulon #105 4 years ago

    "Edit - Also, just like to add, that my statement was in reply to Apologie's claim that a game that started out life as a PS3 game and was then ported to 360 would be better on the PS3"

    Devs are claiming the opposite though - that if a title started life on the PS3 it'd be easier to port to the 360 as if the PS3 can handle something the 360 absolutely can. Midway are claiming this off the top of my head.

    I'm arguing with Apologie though not you, although arguing with Apologie is like arguing with some crazy reverend out the movies.

    Myself, I think all that'll do is delay both versions more as the 360 has far better dev tools, but it's their trainset.
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 18:35

  • Garulon #106 4 years ago

    @monkie_king: "@Garulon: you're absolutely correct about that (tho"

    Thanks for that, interesting reading. I just remembered it was a doomsday cult, couldn't remember which one :)

  • Subquest #107 4 years ago

    I really wish that when you do these tests, and there is a version available (in this case Dirt, Sega Rally, Fifa 08, Harry Potter, Transformers, Pirates OTC), you would compare the PC version too. There are quite a few of us still around you know. Probably more than own PS3s. It's not like the PC wouldn't be able to keep up, either. On the contrary...

  • alkeygs01 #108 4 years ago

    The reason so many people are interested in this whole war thingy, is that Sony said they will have the best graphics and their system is so powerful it would decimate the opposition! In the last gen even when things started out on PS2 and went to Xbox apart from metal gear solid every other game was significantly better on the Xbox.

    I think that with this generation everyone was expecting the gap to be as big with PS3 to 360 and it just isnt. in fact by and large it seems to be the opposite. Obviously with the games coming out in the future this may be the case but with all the posing from sony and the SDF you would have thought it would be an easy thing for the PS3 to be the best on the market. but it isnt is it.

  • Kryon #109 4 years ago

    "although arguing with Apologie is like arguing with some crazy reverend out the movies"

    LMFAO, You're right, I bet he runs some kind of cult PS3 gospel church " I haveh releasehd teh deeeeemonda! Weeeee shall rejoiceha in teh naaaaaaaaame of Sonyeh"

  • mattigan #110 4 years ago

    All Sony's base are belong to Microsoft LOL

  • cynic #111 4 years ago

    Looks to me like it is just down to pure laziness on the developers part, and who can blame the developers who have no integrity and just want to push out games quick. Develop on the easiest and quickest platform, then squeeze it on to other formats.

    The difference is some developers actually have integrity, and pride in what they do. We have seen a few examples of this on 360, there are examples of this beginning to happen on PS3 as pointed out on this article where developers are actually starting to put time and effort into optimising PS3 ports.

    The real comparison is going to be when a developer builds a game from the ground up, for the architecture of the PS3, that we will see what it is really capable of. God of War II is a stunning looking game, and it is on the PS2, regarded as the least powerful of that generation yet it still outshone almost all efforts on other consoles.

    Both consoles seem to be pretty capable, to deny it is just foolish. At the end of the day its all down to the effort, talent and pride of the developer......

  • Garulon #112 4 years ago

    "you would compare the PC version too"

    That's certainly an idea, but isn't there like a zillion different configurations of PC? If they had a PC bakeoff, every time the PC didn't come top they'd be flooded with "use this patch" or different graphics card or more RAM or Vista/XP. PS3 and 360s are all the same (mostly) how it runs on a console is how it runs on a console.

  • Kryon #113 4 years ago

    "God of War II is a stunning looking game, and it is on the PS2"

    I agree, the PS3 will have some fucking stunning games in 7 or 8 years, but if you want the best gaming experience right now and for the foreseeable future, there is only one choice imo.
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 18:51

  • Garulon #114 4 years ago

    "Looks to me like it is just down to pure laziness on the developers part, and who can blame the developers who have no integrity and just want to push out games quick."

    Wow. Developers aren't doing this for a laugh, they have budgets of X pounds and the longer they spend on a title the less money they have to spend on art or audio or new features or extra levels or polish. The 360 is a pretty straightforwards machine to code on, it's why it's picked as the lead SKU, PS3 is hard so it takes longer. Do you take longer on the PS3 (thus costing money as your devs try to get the PS3 at the same level as the 360) and delay both versions (thus taking longer to get money back and start working on something new) or delay the PS3 version (thus getting the PS3 to miss advertising and hammer sales) or cut back on the PS3 version to get both to ship?

    Given the PS3 software sales aren't exactly brilliant anyway, this is a bad situation for devs to be in, a lot are quitting the industry because they have families and don't want to go on three month death-marches just to get their game working on Kutaragi's squirly archicture, especially when the same game works fine on the machine where most sales happen anyway.

    I reckon this PS3 lead SKU thing will last for about six months, after that a lot of devs will just start dumping the PS3 version altogether.

  • Zelos #115 4 years ago

    @cynic

    You seem to have forgotten why companies develop games: to make money.

  • cynic #116 4 years ago

    ""God of War II is a stunning looking game, and it is on the PS2"

    I agree, the PS3 will have some fucking stunning games in 7 or 8 years, but if you want the best gaming experience right now and for the foreseeable future, there is only one choice imo."

    I agree, just bringing about a bit of realism before people dismiss the PS3, it too is a very capable piece of kit that will have games the quality of 360 too.

  • cynic #117 4 years ago

    @zelos

    Yes, I know why developers are in the industry. It just seems some are a heck of a lot better than others, and put in more effort. To judge 2 consoles on the half arsed efforts of a few developers seems pretty retarded, which was why I was trying to bring a bit of balance to the 'arguement'

  • Zelos #118 4 years ago

    @cynic

    A lot of that 'effort' comes down to money as well: hiring more experienced (and therefore more expensive) developers, spending more time in optimisation and testing, staff training. That all costs money.

    Talking about 'integrity' or laziness is missing the point.

  • G3org3 #119 4 years ago

    we are talking now on terms from Xbox360 to PS3 ports time frame
    when we get to the other side PS3 to xbox360 we ll have a full picture

    its too early to see how PS3 is progressing its been less than a year out
    and developers for its low market infiltration have issues investing resourses
    just as i did with ps2 i ll wait
    it annilated GC dreamcast XBOX and its running as of yet...if something is worth waiting that is sony for now and if you cant wait buy anything else its a free world
    but dont rush to judge Ps3...the technology within it is similar in power if not better than 360 but the ways to do that elude developers because sony fucks up developers with different architectures thats well known but even so the actual details to make that deference obvious will never be eye popping or so i think right now.

  • Garulon #120 4 years ago

    @cynic

    "Yes, I know why developers are in the industry. It just seems some are a heck of a lot better than others, and put in more effort. "

    Maybe if Sony hadn't lied about all the extra power in the PS3 (or at least provided tools as good as Microsofts) they wouldn't need to put all the extra effort in in the first place?

  • Xerx3s #121 4 years ago

    I think the 360's long term reputation will forever be hit by just how unreliable the hardware is. If they had not had the hardware issues it may well have been remembered as a classic

    The ps2 was one of the most unreliable consoles ever build with an even shoddier support yet it is remembered as a fantastic machine. Ultimately - just like with the ps2 - it is the lineup that will define how people remember it.

  • cynic #122 4 years ago

    @ Zelos

    I take your point about costs. But still, I do think there are just some developers who are chucking out titles to grab a quick bit of cash. This is especially so at the beginning of a console lifecycle when there are little games to choose from.

    I dont think talking about integrity or laziness is missing the point. The point is you cant compare 2 consoles on half arsed conversions where the lead console will clearly look better.

    Just in case you think I may be baiting, I have no preference of console, or loyalty of any company, I am merely stating a point of view in an unbiased manner, people in these threads seem to be blinded by brand loyalty, and defend there console rabidly, even in the face of undeniable facts.

  • cynic #123 4 years ago

    "@cynic

    "Yes, I know why developers are in the industry. It just seems some are a heck of a lot better than others, and put in more effort. "

    Maybe if Sony hadn't lied about all the extra power in the PS3 (or at least provided tools as good as Microsofts) they wouldn't need to put all the extra effort in in the first place?"

    I fail to see your point, I will agree with you that Sony overhype everything they sell, this is beside the point though, the article is comparing the 'power' of both consoles. Yes, PS3 appears to be more difficult to programme for, I couldnt tell you as I really have no idea which I will admit, but it all seems to be down to familiarity. £60 is not necessarily easier to programme for, it is just more familiar. Say for example if I were to write this post in French, it would look horrible, it doesn't mean French is harder to write, its just I am not as familiar with it........
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 19:25

  • G3org3 #124 4 years ago

    What did you expect that a bunch of people paying 600+euros wouldnt stand up for their choice?

    the think is that eventhough people claim to be objective they fail to see that even at undeniable facts favour someone the objective part isnt naming the brand but acknoledging the facts no matter side.

    the fun factor here is that the undeniable facts of the previous generations never helped sony at all where as they should. i m not a fan or a brand fan boy how ever i chose a console not sure if i buy a second one but since i ve been a gamer for over 18years i d appreciate hearing something genuinly objective and something valid for the time of speaking...instead of arguments that broken down in two words implying i m stupid.

  • pjmaybe #125 4 years ago

    The only undeniable fact here is that this is a console to console comparison in the here and now. Not in some mythical future when Sony finally stop f**karsing around with different SKUs, mucking around with the (ffs) PS2 putting out new models and finally fire their marketing and PR team and start bloody well listening to what gamers actually want rather than what Sony thinks gamers want.

    You can sit there and spout technical specs until your willy drops off, the sheer fact of the matter is that PS3 titles look bloody shoddy if they're cross-platform ported and not optimised. The PS3's distinct lack of graphics memory and horribly slow media drive doesn't help matters either.

    If there is a light at the end of the tunnel for Sony, and a developer to keep an eye on it's Insomniac who seem capable of producing some truly stunning results with the hardware, and produce console exclusives actually worth bothering with.

    Console jingoism will never go away, it's a peculiar brand of psychological disorder that must have its roots in tribalism or something, but living in a constant state of denial about Sony's abilities to somehow magically start turning the tables when even console exclusives can't be produced without tearing, lack of anti aliasing and load speeds that recall the 8 bit era is well worth writing a psychology thesis about.

    Peej

  • pjmaybe #126 4 years ago

    And just in case you see this as some MS fanboy rant. It's not. I own a PS3, and a 360 which makes the job of comparing and contrasting games across both platforms quite easy to do, and in pretty much each case I'd have to concur with the writer of this article. The PS3 cannot cut the mustard currently.

    Peej

  • G3org3 #127 4 years ago

    if check a year after ps2 launch with 4 years after it you ll see the what sony fans mean by waiting
    if you see a year after xbox and four years after xbox...you have a dead console....you ll see that things dont come as expected.

    all these messages and posts have little to do with the outcome of this generation
    and also have little or nothing with the reality of how consoles will evolve.

    whether XBOX360 turns out better console than PS3 or if PS3 dies before we know it wont be determined in 2007-2008 and we need to get that into our heads.

    History lesson : MGS2 had major port issues to XBOX despite being clearly spec advanced do I really need to draw concusions???

  • pjmaybe #128 4 years ago

    What part of "This is a comparison in the here and now" did you not understand?

    Peej

  • Apologie #129 4 years ago

    The PS3 uses a Cell processor with a PowerPC-based core with seven synergistic processing units while the Xbox comes with a Custom IBM PowerPC CPU with three dual-threaded cores that can handle six total threads at a time, an important comparison to look at is the number of dot product calculations per second the systems can perform, the reason this number is important is because it is used extensively during gameplay in 3d math to calculate various things such as vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. Both systems are clocked at 3.2 Ghz. The PS3 can handle 51-billion dot product operations per second and the Xbox can handle 33.6, overall the PS3 has an edge over the Xbox when it comes to overall processing power... not to mention the Blu Ray BIG ADVANTAGE, in terms of data storage.

  • cynic #130 4 years ago

    " And just in case you see this as some MS fanboy rant. It's not. I own a PS3, and a 360 which makes the job of comparing and contrasting games across both platforms quite easy to do, and in pretty much each case I'd have to concur with the writer of this article. The PS3 cannot cut the mustard currently.

    Peej"

    I don't disagree with what you are saying, the 360 has far better games for it just now. I have no doubt the PS3 will also have very good games for it too in the same point of maturity. I wont buy either of them until they come down in price anyway, by which time I will probably get both.

  • MaxiSleep #131 4 years ago

    "The PS3 uses a Cell processor with a PowerPC-based core with seven synergistic processing units while the Xbox comes with a Custom IBM PowerPC CPU with three dual-threaded cores that can handle six total threads at a time, an important comparison to look at is the number of dot product calculations per second the systems can perform, the reason this number is important is because it is used extensively during gameplay in 3d math to calculate various things such as vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. Both systems are clocked at 3.2 Ghz. The PS3 can handle 51-billion dot product operations per second and the Xbox can handle 33.6, overall the PS3 has an edge over the Xbox when it comes to overall processing power... not to mention the Blu Ray BIG ADVANTAGE, in terms of data storage. "

    Well most graphic functions are done by the GPU, not the CPU so this is not exactly an advantage. In fact the 360 is generally accepted to have a better gpu then the Ps3, with more raw power. (ATI 1950 vs 7800 gtx basicly)

    Many programmers seem to prefer having three general purpose CPU's then 7 very special purpose vector units and a single cpu.

    On the bluray - maybe, but there has yet to be a game on the Ps3 which takes any advantage of it that I can see, i.e. there is no ps3 game out now or that I have seen previews for that could not be done on a 360 on a DVD 9

  • Apologie #132 4 years ago

    @MaxiSleep

    Killzone2 will be the first of many to take full advantage of BluRay.
    Edited by 1 at 08/11/07 @ 19:46

  • onyxbox #133 4 years ago

    evilfoxhound - my sentiments too.

    as it happens I have a ps3 and 360 and I'm liking the PS3 more these days... go figure!

    i think it's because it doesn't sound like a hairdryer and the games catalogue is getting interesting now.

    I get really annoyed at all the hate directed at the PS3... what's the problem with 360 fans, what are you afraid of?... neither console's going to die this time around... i don't understand... please explain.

  • cynic #134 4 years ago

    "I get really annoyed at all the hate directed at the PS3... what's the problem with 360 fans, what are you afraid of?... neither console's going to die this time around... i don't understand... please explain. "

    Praised be the lord, lets all co-exist in harmony, nobody needs to die for the other to exist, hate is for haters :¬)

  • Kryon #135 4 years ago

    "I get really annoyed at all the hate directed at the PS3"

    Then you have a problem mate. It's a toy, not your mother. As long as you enjoy playing with it, what do you care if others (rightfully so) ridicule it, go and enjoy your 'wealth' of interesting PS3 games and ignore the truth.

  • onyxbox #136 4 years ago

    As long as you enjoy playing with it, what do you care if others (rightfully so) ridicule it, go and enjoy your 'wealth' of interesting PS3 games and ignore the truth.

    I think you've taken my post out of context a bit. The PS3 hardly has a 'wealth' of games at the moment but the catalouge 'is' getting more interesting. I take your point tho' about 'It's a toy, not your mother.' you're right... I guess I read too many of these forum posts and it's easy to get sucked into all the bitterness.

  • Stormflood #137 4 years ago

    So Game Radar were talking shit about VF being so much better on 360 that it was like a DC game compared to a PS1 game.

  • SeesThroughAll #138 4 years ago

    @ Kryon:

    I agree, the PS3 will have some fucking stunning games in 7 or 8 years, but if you want the best gaming experience right now and for the foreseeable future, there is only one choice imo.

    Consider the following: if EVERYBODY takes the same "one choice" now, how much of a choice will you have in 7/8 years?

    Do you want that?

  • imperial_seal #139 4 years ago

    If anyone is interested, my name not as in aquatic mammal, actually it is the official stamp print thing that Emperor uses. So drop your clubs dude.

    Anyway, it is true the 360 can be too easily broken, I am on my third one now and just can't be bothered anymore with repairs.

    Where is the TRUTH by the way, he usually loves this kind of threads !

  • gelf #140 4 years ago

    An article by Rich Leadbetter featuring Virtua Fighter and Sega Rally, its like I'm back in my teens reading Sega Saturn Magazine ahh those where the days....erm yes anyway 360 vs PS3 comparisons.. sounds like it really doesn't matter does it unless your anal enough to endlessly nitpick.

  • Charlie_Miso #141 4 years ago

    these articles are shithouse, comments are great.

  • Vic #142 4 years ago

    "When a game arrives on PS3 that cannot run on the 360 for technical reasons I will buy a PS3, until then I won’t be investing."

    I cant wait for Killzone. I think this will display the PS3's true power. Along with GT Prologue it is far and away the most impressive next-gen game in terms of physics and graphics.

  • qwerty123 #143 4 years ago

    vic
    you cant be for real

  • Vic #144 4 years ago

    Haha!! You wanna compare Halo or Resistance to Killzone?! The only game that comes close is COD 4.

  • TRUTH #145 4 years ago

    Vic:

    Just downloaded preview GT...Urm same and just as clinical as previous GT's. Nice graphics, but nothing that's surpass PGR4 or 3 at moment & no inside driving view or damage to cars/paintowrk, or scenery. A.I seems boring as ever.

    Rachet & Clank, Heavenly Sword, Lair - 2nd gen PS3 games. Yet nothing that tells a different story that these games can run on a 360 & PC with no problems.
    Edited by 2 at 08/11/07 @ 21:56

  • JackB #146 4 years ago

    Vic, physics and GT Prologue? Huh? Have you been playing the GT Series much. Graphics are what's it's all about not physics.

  • SeesThroughAll #147 4 years ago

    Just downloaded preview GT...Urm same and just as clinical as previous GT's. Nice graphics, but nothing that's surpass PGR4 or 3 at moment & no inside driving view or damage to cars/paintowrk, or scenery.

    That sounds like GT HD, not the GT5 Prologue demo he was talking about.

  • Drpwnage #148 4 years ago

    "I cant wait for Killzone. I think this will display the PS3's true power. Along with GT Prologue it is far and away the most impressive next-gen game in terms of physics and graphics. "

    Points at Crysis.

  • SeesThroughAll #149 4 years ago

    The word around is that Crysis is no more than a looker, though.

    Whether KZ2 will have GOOD gameplay additions, remains to be seen.

    Personally, I'm keen on COD4 myself, not sure if I'll bother about KZ2 when it comes.

  • Ghettomurph #150 4 years ago

    @Apologie

    Mate, youre coming across as a right mong. Who actually gives a flying fuck if the PS3 is more powerful on paper? Its been available to the public for a year now and can you name any game that is on it that is a must have system seller apart from Resistance and Motorstorm?

    It could be the most powerful machine ever seen in the history of mankind but its a complete cunt to program for and has no decent games available for it (apart from Resistance & Motorstorm) until probably mid 2008 at the earliest. Lair, the so-called system seller game is a complete load of bollocks and worse still has been put back to the 23rd Nov...the day Mass Effect gets released!

    My point is that its all about the GAMES, not the tech. The Wii is destroying everything (i own one as well as a 360) and thats basically a Gamecube with fancy controllers!! Both the Wii & 360 have decent exclusive games and the multiformat games generally run better on the 360 compared to the PS3.

  • Dizzy #151 4 years ago

    Why still do these articles? Just get it over with and say 360 better hardware than PS3 for most games. Case closed.

  • Drakron #152 4 years ago

    I wish articles like this were no longer being done.

    As for the "next-gen war" ... I think its simple, during last-gen there was a domination of the PS2 so XBots were silenced early on but now the situation changed, XBots are taking the piss at the PS3 and Sonytards are on the defensive but the reason it "heated up" is because a lot of people that sit on the fence and did not cared are pissed at Sony that dropped the ball in far too many things (global launch anyone?) and are tired of Sonytards "SDF" stupidity that cannot pass beyond re-using the same some keywords with XBots being left with plenty ammunition to throw back.

  • Apologie #153 4 years ago

    Ghettomurph

    Motorstorm, Resistance: FOM, Warhawk, Folklore, Ratchet&ClanK:TOD, HeavenlySword, Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection Online, Uncharted: Drakes Fortune "in a few weeks", UT3 "before the end of the year", Call of Duty4, Orange Box, Assassins Creed etc... thouse are great games in my opinion. next year, that we know of, Ps3 will have at least 5 fantastic games, Killzone2, Metal GEar Solid 4, Haze, Little Big Planet and GT5... i was refering to its potential as a system, nothing more, and making my point about how that Hardware will only be totally explored next year, with the games i mentioned.

    Here's the full list

    The Eye of Judgment
    Heavenly Sword
    NBA 08
    Lair
    Folklore
    Ratchet & Clank(R) Future: Tools of Destruction(TM)
    Uncharted: Drakes Fortune(TM)
    Warhawk(TM)
    Call of Duty(R) 4: Modern Warfare(TM), Activision
    Guitar Hero(TM) III: Legends of Rock, Activision
    Tony Hawk's Proving Ground, Activision
    Jericho(TM), Codemasters
    Kane & Lynch: Dead Men(TM), Eidos
    FIFA 08, EA
    Medal of Honor Airborne(TM), EA
    Rock Band(TM), EA
    Orange Box, The, EA
    Simpsons(TM) Game, The, EA
    Bladestorm(TM): The Hundred Years' War, Koei
    LEGO(R) Star Wars(TM): The Complete Saga, Lucas Arts
    BlackSite(TM): AREA 51(R), Midway
    John Woo Presents Stranglehold(TM) Collector's Edition
    Unreal Tournament(R) 3, Midway* DELAYED
    Time Crisis(R) 4, NAMCO BANDAI
    SEGA Rally Revo(TM), Sega
    College Hoops 2K8, Take 2 Interactive
    WWE(R) SmackDown(R) vs. Raw(R) 2008, THQ
    Juiced(TM) 2: Hot Import Nights(TM), THQ
    MX vs. ATV(TM) Untamed, THQ
    Assassin's Creed(TM), UbiSoft
    Blazing Angels(R) 2: Secret Missions of WWII, UbiSoft
    Haze(TM), UbiSoft
    TimeShift(TM), Vivendi
    Elder Scrolls IV: OBLIVION(R) - Game of the Year Edition

    http://ww w.ps3power.com/industrytalksps3...
    Edited by 3 at 09/11/07 @ 00:02

  • SeesThroughAll #154 4 years ago

    Apologie, you're giving TRUTH some serious competition here...

    ...just not the way you think you are ;)

  • Xerx3s #155 4 years ago

    History lesson : MGS2 had major port issues to XBOX despite being clearly spec advanced do I really need to draw concusions???

    What, that the guys who did it really fucked up or that MGS is just a shitty series?

    Anyway, this thread has now been tagged as [clusterfuck] and will be nuked from orbit. Thank you for your time.

  • DjFlex52 #156 4 years ago

    "Apologie, you're giving TRUTH some serious competition here... "

    And such irony in their names too ---- Apologie and the TRUTH...LOL
    Or they should just change their names to SDF Jr. & MDF Jr., respectively ;)

  • Apologie #157 4 years ago

    DjFlex52 and SeesThroughAll are trying to seduce each other with 2nd class jokes.

  • VMerken #158 4 years ago

    Personally, I don't know if it's worth doing these face-off thingies.

    To really get the "power of the cell" out, you need to custom code and tweak for the chip, something coding teams everywhere have found out that it is not easy to do, so perhaps we aren't at the point of objective comparison yet. Also, to really get the power of the Xbox 360 out, you need to custom code and tweak for that chip, too.

    Something these mostly average crossplatform titles aren't going to do, because most of the budget went into licensing the IP (exceptions noted).

    I'd rather see a face-off where you put the best the Xbox 360 can muster vs. the best the PS3 can muster. Titles which are accepted as the platform benchmarks, where all the stops have been pulled out to optimise and tweak the code as much as possible.

    Then you can truly compare the systems themselves for what they are worth and ask, "which is the fairer of the land"? And of course, the conclusion will be that Godzilla and Mothra each have their pros and cons, and neither of them is the best.
    Pretty much like you cannot order two complex numbers in the traditional sense.

    With that said, I'm all for Godzilla vs Mothra vs Paul Daniels. Really, bring that on =)

  • cobracotton #159 4 years ago

    PS3 = Jaguar + Blu Ray

    Its Amazing on Paper!!!!

    ARhahahahahaha

    me hearties

  • anamenos #160 4 years ago

    fifa 08 owns

  • Garulon #161 4 years ago

    "To really get the "power of the cell" out, you need to custom code and tweak for the chip"

    They're doing that just to keep up with the 360. They're the same power dude, I don't know how many different ways I can say this.

  • captainrentboy #162 4 years ago

    From reading on through the comments this morning, I've come to the conclusion that it's definitely best just to ignore Apologie, as it would seem he's basically bordering on being retarded, he's had around 20 or so posts asking why he's such a cunt and then he comes back with a massive list of upcoming PS3 titles, almost oblivious to the hatred directed at him :/

  • bioreit #163 4 years ago

    @ Apologie

    "that's because cross platform games are not develop 1st for the Ps3..., the port's are difficult to make (new system)" (when saying why PS3 versions of games often looked and performed worse than their 360 counterparts).

    Virtua Fighter 5.

    Use order of development to explain that one.

    And in a really not funny joke, maybe you should change your name to Apologist, seeing as you give Fox News a run for their money in the "spin it 'til you win it" game.
    Edited by 1 at 09/11/07 @ 08:37

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #164 4 years ago

    Check out the Cognitive Dissonance page on Wikipedia

    You know, I never thought I'd actually learn anything from wasting my time reading this fanboy-baiting thread, but that just shows how wrong you can.

    Thanks monkie_king!

  • Arwin #165 4 years ago

    Don't have time to go through the whole comments list, but in case it wasn't mentioned yet, I'm fairly sure you've mixed up the 360 and PS3 shots for Dirt (top one has to be the PS3 version, as that's the one that has less excessive bloom in the game), and an unmentioned advantage for the PS3 version of most racing games reviewed here is that this version works with all sorts of USB Wheels going back to one of the earliest Logitech Wingman FF / Driving Force wheels released early in the PS2's lifecycle up to and including the current best wheel, the G25 (though no games support clutch yet, but at least the GT5 Prologue Demo does support the H shifter properly).
    Edited by 1 at 09/11/07 @ 09:34

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #166 4 years ago

    an unmentioned advantage for the PS3 version of most racing games reviewed here is that this version works with all sorts of USB Wheels

    Oooh! I've actually now learned two things reading this thread. I'd asked around about whether my old USB wheel would work on a PS3, but had no good answer previously.

    One more reason to look forward to Christmas when my PS3 will come (and one more reason to actually use it as a game machine rather than a Linux VLC box for streaming hi-def downloaded Heroes episodes off my PC).

  • monkie_king #167 4 years ago

    "Day two in the Eurogamer comments thread ..."

    If anyone still cares, this here is a deep and balanced article from a PS3 developer, discussing its pros and cons: [link url=http://daveasbell.blogspot.com/2007/08/trouble-with- ps3.html
    ]http://da veasbell.blogspot.com/2007/08/t...[/link]

    The crux is that, to get at the PS3's power, you have to throw away everything you know about programming for every other platform: no object-oriented domain models, no abstraction layers, no virtual functions. Data parallelism rules all. The difficulty is that if you just do a straightforward port of your existing engine to it, it's going to perform badly, but given the small installed base it's hard for developers to justify the expense of spending months specialising for PS3 -- the potential return on investment isn't there.

    "When you can make an excellent game on an XBox 360 for a fraction of the development cost why would you ever lead on the PS3? The answer is, you wouldn't and extremely few studios have. You build the game for the 360 ship it and the port to the PS3 and do the best you can. This sucks for everyone; Sony most of all."

    He also makes the point that the 360's dev tools and support blow Sony's out of the water.

    Still, PS3 exclusives should shine: when the team is committed to only developing for PS3, it makes economic sense to specialize your architecture for it.

  • imperial_seal #168 4 years ago

    Yes, agree with statement from monkie_king. That's why IMO the only games that's worth buying for PS3 are always made by Japanese developers, and of course Rockstars.

  • Yaz #169 4 years ago

    Apologie, why are you providing quotes from 2005? A time when Sony presented the PS3 as if it was twice as powerful as the 360?

    You can find those quotes here btw;

    <a href="http://www.seci nfo.com/d14Bmp.zrb.htm
    ">http://www.seci nfo.com/d14Bmp.zrb.htm
    </a>

    I'm not sure what you expected to prove by your link, since developers today will tell you the difference between the 360 and PS3 in terms of overall power is negligable, with the PS3 perhaps having a slight edge for those devs able to put sufficient time and resources into getting the most out of the hardware.

    You also said this; "The Cell Processor is essentially as powerful as 3 Xbox 360 CPU or 35 PlayStation 2 CPU... so my friend, you'r wrong.."

    You completely exaggerate the benefits of the Cell processor. Whilst it does have TWICE the floating-point power of the 360's Xenon CPU on paper thanks to 6 SPEs for games (not 3 times the power!), Xenon has around TWICE the general processing power of Cell, thanks to having 3 cores for running main code compared to just one in Cell. It's true that floating-point performance is increasingly important for games, but you can't take it in isolation whilst ignoring the 360's general processing strengths. Both CPUs have their advantages and disadvantages, and Cell should have a slight edge for floating-point intensive games, but on average, both will perform equally well for next-gen games.

    Hence the similar results we see in today's multi-format games is not because of development starting on the 360 first but because the consoles have similar power. Sorry, but your arguement is really just an excuse, often use by those who expected the PS3 to blow away the 360 at launch because they swallowed all the hype from Sony (as you seem to have done with your '3 Xbox 360 CPU' comment), and often the same people who said "Give the PS3 a year, THEN you'll see", and here we are a year later and still waiting! Hmmm.

    Both are great consoles, but it's time you forgot the hype and faced the reality that they are far closer to each other than any two consoles last gen, and therefore you are not going to see much difference in the games.

    The console world has moved on since E3 2005, perhaps it's time you moved on to. ;)
    Edited by 2 at 09/11/07 @ 10:34

  • Garulon #170 4 years ago

    @Mentalist: "You know, I never thought I'd actually learn anything from wasting my time reading this fanboy-baiting thread, but that just shows how wrong you can."

    Yeah, now we know Apologie is suffering from a disconfirmed expectancy, and he's reducing his dissonance by beleivng the expected More Powah is being held back by the 360 somehow. That's always good to know!

  • bonker #171 4 years ago

    "The 360 truly is one hell of machine. When I bought it, I knew it was a powerful machine but I was expecting the ps3 to be more powerful. So I'm sure like many other 360 owners are right now, I'm even more happy because it looks like its at least as powerful if not more powerful than the ps3. And with all the fantastic games available to play right now for it and future titles like mass effect, I think I can say that the 360 might eventually end up being celebrated like the snes and dreamcast as one of the greatest systems ever. As a multiplatform gamer for it seems like ages, I'll say it again what a fantastic machine the 360 is. "

    +1

    I already think of the SNES and the 360 in the same light ...

  • GamesConnoisseur #172 4 years ago

    [link url= http://uk.insider.ign.com/articles/833/833200p7.html
    ]http://uk .insider.ign.com/articles/833/8...[/link]

    Apologie: For you, this is COD4 head to head done on IGN.com and the conclusion is.... PS3 finally get the equal treatment in GFX front and all else to X360. So a DRAW for the first time and not like you implies that PS3 is destroying X360 gfx and overall a superior one (PC 1st, PS3 and 360 joint 2nd). However if that what draw mean to you, that fine with me.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #173 4 years ago

    I already think of the SNES and the 360 in the same light

    That's quite ironic, considering that the SNES had an awkward architecture that many Western developers complained about, resulting in a significant number of ports from the Megadrive that were inferior on the supposedly superior system ;)

    Also, early in its lifetime the SNES was considerably outsold by the Megadrive in the West, but not in Japan.

    Mind you, the SNES had large numbers of excellent exclusives, and wasn't ludicrously expensive, which is where the PS3 parallels end for the time being.

  • TriggerHippie #174 4 years ago

    I don't think you can call £279 quid for the 40gb PS3 ludicrously expensive.

  • moggsy #175 4 years ago

    2.5GB mandatory hard disk installation

    No Sony - that is not what I want to fill my hard disk with!

  • Calgon #176 4 years ago

    monkie_king: I wouldnt put too much faith in such claims, if you were paying attention last gen you would know this is typical Sony speak. The same buzzwords were used to sell untapped potential last time, yes it was there but it was also there on the other consoles too, if you spend enough time and money on dev technology for any console you are going to get more out of it.

    Yes PS3 is more difficult to program for but at this stage you have to wonder how long the excuse can last dont you?(Sony will want that to last as long as possible, its a gameplan for them) 360 would benifit from the same things, it too has a IOOE(In Order of Execution)CPU with multiple cores(data parallelism would be benificial but theres only so much devs can do with it, the pay off in performance might not be all its cracked up to be if youve been paying attention to some of the comments by the top devs) , how many expensive native 360 engines have there been?(the two best IMO are Rare's and Bizaarre's so far) 360 does well without the special treatment is the difference, imagine how far they could push it with that in mind with the dev time needed and big budget to match.

    Theres already been PS3 exclusives trying to take advantage of CELL they were developing for CELL a year BEFORE the PS3 was released, dont make too many excuses for them. I find its funny how on 360s side we have the likes of Carmack(do you need anyone else's opinion after his?) and Newell and many 3rd part devs all giving the nod to 360 in so many words, for the better system design - power/effeciency = actual performance, 360 performs better - it's the way its turned out so far.

    I bet you if the PS3 never has the better performance in any regard(we are still waiting to see any advantage it has other than disk capacity), after the generation closes the Sony fanboys will still not admit to it: "it had so much untapped potential, no devs knew how to tap it" = in so many words: "all developers are too dumb for PS3s architecture" which is bulls***, sometimes things dont work out as planned in practise, the PS3 could be one of them things. CELL has its strengths, it may be the strongest CPU but some of you fanboys are going to have accept the possibility that it just wont make the difference that was hoped for(plus I really think some of you are confusing graphics and physics... the two arent the same, CELL is proven in neither but if there is ever going to be an advantage 'untapped' its only going to be one and thats Physics).

    Still none of this is suprising to me from the comparisons to the fanboy reactions, Ive seen it all before.
    Edited by 3 at 09/11/07 @ 12:48

  • pjmaybe #177 4 years ago

    "that's because cross platform games are not develop 1st for the Ps3..., the port's are difficult to make (new system)" (when saying why PS3 versions of games often looked and performed worse than their 360 counterparts).

    Care to explain why Heavenly Sword was such an absolute shower of shite then?

    Peej

  • Apologie #178 4 years ago

    The Cell architecture consists of a number of elements, this is a 9 core processor, one of these cores is a PowerPC and acts as a controller. The remaining 8 cores are called SPEs and these are very high performance vector processors. Each SPE contains it's own block of high speed RAM and is capable of 32 GigaFlops (32 bit). The SPEs are independent processors and can act alone or can be set up to process a stream of data with different SPEs working on different stages. This ability to act as a "stream processor" gives access to the full processing power of a Cell which is claimed to be more than 10 times higher than even the fastest desktop processors, in addition to the raw processing power the Cell includes a high performance multi-channel memory subsystem and a number of high speed interconnects for connecting to other Cells or I/O devices.
    A software infrastructure under development will allow Cells to work together. While they can be directly connected via the high speed interconnects they can also be connected in other ways or distributed over a network. The Cells are not gaming or computer specific, they can be in anything from PDAs to TVs but they can still be used to act as a single system, parallel programming is usually complex but in this case the OS will look at the resources it has and distribute tasks accordingly, this process does not involve any more programming than the initial parallelisation. If you want more processing power you simply add more Cells, you do not need to replace the existing ones as the new Cells will augment the existing ones, overall the Cell architecture is an architecture for distributed, parallel processing using very powerful computational engines developed using a highly aggressive design strategy. These devices shall be produced in vast numbers so they will provide vast processing resources at a low cost. The rule in the PC world has always been “evolution not revolution”, often simply incorporating features from other platforms. The changes are incremental and produce incremental performance boosts.
    Cell is a REVOLUTION, a completely new microprocessor architecture which, while it may take some time to get used to, promises a vast performance boost over today’s systems. GPUs can already run 10 times faster than desktop CPUs, Cell will not only bring similar performance but will do so for more applications and it’ll be easier to program.
    Being produced in large volumes also means the Cell will be cheap. They will likely see wide spread not just in living rooms but but in the realm of industry and science as well. The embedded world is much, much larger than the PC world and often imposes stringent constraints on the components used, the same sort of constraints the Cell has been designed for.
    Some have suggested that STI should have gone for a more conventional design such as three PowerPC 970s on a single chip. Such a design would not have addressed the power issues and would, as a result have to of been driven at a relatively low clock rate. Instead, by using simpler designs which use vectors the Cell designers have managed to fit 9 cores on a single chip at a higher clock speed, the potential performance is consequently considerably higher.
    The Cell is a new architecture and will seem strange and alien to many used to rather more conventional desktop designs. In order to utilise it properly programers will have face new problems and devise new ways of solving them. It remains to be seen how much of the Cell’s potential can be achieved and how difficult it is to extract it, but it’s clear that STI are trying to make this as painless as possible.
    Many people do not like change, to them Cell represents a threat. For others it represents an opportunity.

    Lets see how many take the opportunity, and what other opportunities the other CPU vendors come up with in response.

    To me, in the end... Ps3 can do amazing things, let's just hope that the developers make the investment needed.

    Edited by 1 at 09/11/07 @ 13:23

  • Garulon #179 4 years ago

    "If you want more processing power you simply add more Cells, you do not need to replace the existing ones as the new Cells will augment the existing ones"

    So how do you add more Cells to the PS3 then? Feed it through those stupid holes under the flap?

    "More cell power NOM NOM NOM!"

    Hold! The gimpy (alright gimpier) PS3 doesn't have the stupid holes under the flap any more? Won't it starve to death?

    But wow Apologie, you should work for Sony. You're utterly insane but you still couldn't do any worse of a job than the current clowns.
    Edited by 1 at 09/11/07 @ 13:34

  • Garulon #180 4 years ago

    "In order to utilise it properly programers will have face new problems and devise new ways of solving them. "

    This is great if your one of those scientists with lab coats and hamsters and everything. Four weeks to ship and the framerate is running at 15FPS? Not so great.

    "Some have suggested that STI should have gone for a more conventional design such as three PowerPC 970s on a single chip. Such a design would not have addressed the power issues and would, as a result have to of been driven at a relatively low clock rate. "

    Hmm, PS3 clock speed= 3.2GHz with 0.5MB L2 cache, 360 clock speed=3.2GHz with 1MB L2 cache. If that's true, why are the clock speeds for both chips the same, and the 360 having twice the L2 cache?

    This is hilarious Apologie. Please keep going! Say something outragiously partyline about the RSX next, I have loads of dirt on that dated lump of old shit nVidia managed to palm off on a desperate Sony.
    Edited by 1 at 09/11/07 @ 13:33

  • Zelos #181 4 years ago

    @Apologie

    I guess the fact that you seem to be copy and pasting irrelevant chunks of text here means you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Why do you feel the need to defend the PS3 if you know nothing about it?

  • SeesThroughAll #182 4 years ago

    When developers complain that the PS3 is harder to develop for, what they complain essentially is that the investment in man-hours is higher to achieve equivalent results to those they can in the 360 by just pulling people from the PC department to give a quick hand.

    Economical viability. Some Xbots however love to confuse it with shoddy hardware because it makes them feel that their penis is not quite as tiny.

    "CELL has its strengths, it may be the strongest CPU but some of you fanboys are going to have accept the possibility that it just wont make the difference that was hoped for(plus I really think some of you are confusing graphics and physics... the two arent the same, CELL is proven in neither but if there is ever going to be an advantage 'untapped' its only going to be one and thats Physics)."

    I agree with Calgon on this, although I think he's underestimating how much physics can help to an immersive gameplay experience. But at the end of the day, it's a matter of developers using their imagination.

    Of course, when developers are still encouraged to follow the same old formulas, Wii waggle or no Wii waggle, who cares?

    /plays the gorgeous COD4 on the PS3 without the slightest regret.

    @ Zelos:
    I guess the fact that you seem to be copy and pasting irrelevant chunks of text here means you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Why do you feel the need to defend the PS3 if you know nothing about it?

    It's like I said, he's the new TRUTH, just "fighting the good fight" for another flag.
    Edited by 1 at 09/11/07 @ 13:44

  • Garulon #183 4 years ago

    "When developers complain that the PS3 is harder to develop for, what they complain essentially is that the investment in man-hours is higher to achieve equivalent results"

    Er, when they say it's harder to develop for, what they mean is you need to work harder to get the same results? Isn't that a tautology?

  • Apologie #184 4 years ago

    @Zelos

    Is that an argument about the subject in discussion??? i think not

  • Zelos #185 4 years ago

    @Apologie

    Just curious. Personally, I wouldn't go around arguing about things I don't understand.

  • SeesThroughAll #186 4 years ago

    @ Garulon: It means that they can make the hardware handle it, at a higher cost. Not that it's just shit like some people would have you believe.

    Example here.

    He actually DARED to say that "while the PS3 has some elements that are better, the Xbox 360 has other advantages."

    You'll easily see what the real reasoning behind this is, though:

    "Additionally he explained that in Ubisoft's experience, translating a game from the Xbox 360 platform to the PS3 took no extra effort than doing it the other way around.

    "What we do now is create for the PS3 and 360 at the same time, and it doesn't cost more than 10 per cent extra to develop for the other machine.

    "Before it was costing us more, about 20 per cent, just because it was difficult to learn the PS3 hardware, but now our engines are done and we can easily develop for both machines." "

    The PS3 is starting to sell now, so it doesn't "suck" anymore. Different hardware always gives different problems, it's the bottom line that determines everything. And in the end, once the investment is done, the end users of either version won't see much of a difference.
    Edited by 1 at 09/11/07 @ 14:12

  • Garulon #187 4 years ago

    "Not that it's just shit like some people would have you believe."

    Well it's not shit, if you optmise the hell out of it it can equate to the 360, so obviously it's not shit. What's freaking me out is this "more power" thing people have got going on, it's like on one hand you've got every PS3 and 360 game released so far plus dozens of developers saying "they're about the same technically", on the other you have erm Sony, who have as they used to say on the Sweeny "form" about doing this sort of thing. Yet we have people - not weirdos like Apologie, actual rational posters - somehow beleiving all this extra power will suddenly spring forth. Amazing.

  • SeesThroughAll #188 4 years ago

    Garulon, we agree for the most part. I edited the last post, but it's mostly the same point I'm making.

    I chose a PS3 because I expected certain GAMES to come out for it, and certainly media features like RP. In the end, the games I'm enjoying the most aren't the ones I was hyped about. LeD can certainly tell you about that feeling ;)

  • onyxbox #189 4 years ago

    Economical viability. Some Xbots however love to confuse it with shoddy hardware because it makes them feel that their penis is not quite as tiny.

    :-D

  • Yaz #190 4 years ago

    Apologie, instead of pasting long blocks of text from articles (without giving credit to the source), just post the LINK next time please;

    Your post is from this 2005 article;

    [link url=http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell5_v2.html ]http://ww w.blachford.info/computer/Cell/...[/link]

    For anyone who wants to bother reading it from the beginning, go here;

    [link url=http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell0_v2.html ]http://ww w.blachford.info/computer/Cell/...[/link]

    But again, this is the year 2007, not 2005. ;)

  • quantumsheep #191 4 years ago

    "But again, this is the year 2007, not 2005. ;)"

    SHIT!

    Out by 2 years AGAIN!

    /disappears in a flash of blue light

  • Garulon #192 4 years ago

    "I chose a PS3 because I expected certain GAMES to come out for it, and certainly media features like RP. In the end, the games I'm enjoying the most aren't the ones I was hyped about"

    Wow, enjoying a games console based on the games, what a strange idea :)

  • Yaz #193 4 years ago

    "Out by 2 years AGAIN!
    /disappears in a flash of blue light"

    :D

    Reading Apologies' posts takes me back a few years to when this was being discussed before the 360 and PS3 were launched. :) Now that the 360 has been out for almost two years and the PS3 almost one, there's really no excuse for him to dig up old articles and old comments from a time when people were still speculating about the power of the consoles and the power of the technology within. :|

  • Garulon #194 4 years ago

    "But again, this is the year 2007, not 2005. ;)

    SHIT! "

    Surely "oh boy"?

    Evil leaper!

  • moggsy #195 4 years ago

    SCE - May 16th, 2005

    'Gamers will literally be able to dive into the realistic world seen in large screen movies and experience the excitement in real-time. '

    I'd just like to say LOL!

  • TRUTH #196 4 years ago

    VIRTUA FIGHTER 5 came on PS3 1st...I have both here right now and 360 is better: the colors, textures to me look more defied, better pad control, better all round gameplay and features inc online.

    The fact is 2nd gen PS3 game are not advanced beyond any 360 games: Heavenly Sword, Rachet & Clank, Lair; nothing looks or plays better then GOW. To PS3 fans calling Resistance:FOM a great example of PS3 gaming is a joke! Both graphic wise and gameplay wise. Desperate for quality exclusives Resistance is used!... Motor Storm is good example of PS3 power. But it's been in development for 2yrs+ (remember the dev kits were out before the console - this was due to it's manufacturing problems), yet it's a game that again can be done with no problem on 360.

    DETAILED ANALYSIS OF PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATIONS

    CPU
    The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.

    The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.

    The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.

    Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.

    Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.

    Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.

    Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.

    Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.

    Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.

    The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

    The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.

    Edited by 2 at 09/11/07 @ 15:17

  • Garulon #197 4 years ago

    TRUTH vs Apologie, the cut and paste battle of the CENTURY
    Edited by 1 at 09/11/07 @ 15:17

  • SeesThroughAll #198 4 years ago

    I'm starting to think TRUTH and Apologie are just the same guy with a split personality schizophrenic disorder.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #199 4 years ago

    @Apologie
    Cell is a REVOLUTION, a completely new microprocessor architecture which, while it may take some time to get used to, promises a vast performance boost over today’s systems

    No it's not, it's an in-order PowerPC core with some souped up PS2 vector units strapped to it and a DMA controller to pass data back and forth between the two.

    For goodness' sake, get over it.

  • canIdoyabombsforya #200 4 years ago

    I would be happy with the performance of both consoles if only Sony hadn't of bull###### so much.