Xbox 360 vs. PS3 Face-Off: Round Eleven

By Richard Leadbetter Published 24 April, 2008

Dark Sector, Superstars, Turning Point, Viking, Condemned, more.

Page 1 of 6

Welcome back to the latest in Eurogamer's continuing range of Xbox 360/PlayStation 3 comparison features, designed to provide additional commentary to the original Eurogamer reviews for each release, while doubling up as an ongoing commentary on the state of cross-platform game development in the new era of high definition gaming.

Supplementing our views are in-depth technical analyses of the titles at hand, backed up by high quality screenshots of each game only possible in the new digital AV age. Lossless 24-bit RGB frame grabs are ruthlessly swiped from the HDMI ports of the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 Elite using a Digital Foundry HD capture station, the only kit available built from the ground up for videogames in high definition. 720p 'screens' are taken as a matter of course, with 1080p shots also grabbed for comparison purposes when the game in question supports it on PlayStation 3 (that'll be just one then in this feature).

Yes, you're all waiting for the GTAIV face-off, and we have something special lined up for that, but in the meantime, perhaps we can tempt you with this delicious range of cross-platform fancies?

Thanks once again to the Beyond 3D Forums' Quaz51 for additional, invaluable technical analysis on this feature's gaming roster.

Previous face-offs

NFL Tour

There's not really too much you can add to Tom's Xbox 360 review here, NFL Tour really is a stupefyingly bad game; a searing indictment of just how bad the EA BIG sports brand has become, and a new low for the franchise after a smattering of mostly mediocre releases. Gone indeed are the heady days of SSX Tricky, where EA BIG was synonymous for building up a solid, wonderfully executed arcade experience that appealed to all. NFL Tour really is the nadir of the series, basically taking the form of a dumbed-down, stripped-back Madden title, presumably designed to be 'more accessible' to those put off by the depth of EA's premiere US sports series.

'Xbox 360 vs. PS3 Face-Off: Round Eleven' Screenshot nfl

However, NFL Tour is still EA, and therefore worthy at least of the courtesy of checking it out, if only to see if the company is tightening up its cross-platform development in the wake of resurgent PS3 sales. The answer, unfortunately, is a resounding 'no'. It's basically another example of the firm developing with Xbox 360 first and foremost in its mind, with little respect at all given to the matter of the PS3 conversion.

Similar to Madden NFL '08 (which I suspect has bequeathed a certain amount of its coding DNA to this project), the Xbox 360 version runs pretty solidly at 60 frames per second, while the PS3 version is closer to 30fps. That's if it reaches 30fps at all, with the pre-game fly-bys lurching and jerking horribly when compared to the super-smooth 360 release. While the drop in frame-rate didn't seem to have that much of an impact on the gameplay in Madden NFL 08, in a game that's supposedly based on a more arcade-style mode of action, the disparity between the two versions is more immediately apparent.

So, back to the drawing board for EA, and once again, a heartfelt appeal from this writer for the company to get Criterion working on a PS3/360 revamp of SSX as the first phase in revitalising the BIG brand.

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Comments (233) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • monkie_king #1 4 years ago

    /battens down hatches

  • Carlo #2 4 years ago

    /lollers

  • parrapa #3 4 years ago

    Get a new telly to test the PS3 stuff on please, or adjust your set accordingly

    /oh shit here we goooooooo

  • Gaol #4 4 years ago

    "Welcome back to the latest in Eurogamer's continuing range of Xbox 360/PlayStation 3 comparison features, designed to provide fanboys with plenty baiting material, and increase our web hits so we can charge more for adverts."

    Fixed.

  • Zomoniac #5 4 years ago

    Is anyone else finding the Sega Tennis one to not be there? And that the link just goes to the SoF page?

  • Optyk #6 4 years ago

    PScrap MIRITE OLOL

  • afghan_jones #7 4 years ago

    please stop doing this.


    Its just embarrassing.

  • lordofdeadside #8 4 years ago

    please stop doing this.


    Its just embarrassing.

  • Physically_Insane #9 4 years ago

    please stop doing this.


    Its just embarrassing.

  • monkie_king #10 4 years ago

    You mean missing out apostrophes? Please stop doing that.

  • Madafunkola #11 4 years ago

    BUT TEH BLURAEZ
    PSN BLOWS
    RRODLOLZ
    UNCHARTED IS SHIT
    XBOTZ ATE MY HAMSTER
    HD-DVDLOLZ
    BETTER THAN HALO3 THEN??
    MGS4 WILL SHO ALL OF YOUS DAT TIS TEH BESTERST!!1!!!

    There, now all the cliche's are out of the way this forum is now null and void. Move along, there's nothing to see here.

  • espibara #12 4 years ago

    Oh shit a mjor turds heading towards the fan!!!!!!!!!!

    But lets face it Sony has designed a fatally flawed machine which only the best or the willing can get the best out of it!

  • miiiguel #13 4 years ago

    ok, pslol and stuff, once again. Plz remember that most of the "lolers" are so because PS-crowd bragged PS3 beeing the real next-gen and stuff, in the end it has been proved once and again that there isn't much diference and when there's a slight one is to 360's side. Anyway PS3 is also a good/fun system, but by no means it is better or "the real next-gen".

    However I going to ignore the bloody mess this thread will turn into, as I have to get this ITIL project going with MS framework, which is a pain in the backside, but it's what puts the food on the table and the games on the 360.

    C ya later, and peace.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 14:12

  • Aretak #14 4 years ago

    Sega Superstars Tennis is missing from the article.

  • anomagnus #15 4 years ago

    i've said it before, and i'll say it again

    eurogamer VASTLY underrated Viking

    I romped through it, 3 times back to back, and loved it

  • muscleblade #16 4 years ago

    "Its just embarrassing. "

    Only for the PS3 owners.

    Personally i enjoy reading these quite a bit. And Richard you should review more games. i like your take on Dark Sector and Viking - very accurate compared to my own experience with those games.

  • woodnotes #17 4 years ago

    "Sega Superstars Tennis is missing from the article."

    And that's the biggest difference. 60fps on 360, 30fps on PS3.

  • Eighthours #18 4 years ago

    Superstars Tennis is missing, and the Turning Point comparison looks to have the second half cut out of it.

  • dsmx #19 4 years ago

    So essentially we have a series of comparisons on a bunch of mostly crappy games that people won't buy but will be used as proof that the ps3 sucks.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 14:14

  • menage #20 4 years ago

    Holy shit, average games get shit conversions shocker (well, not all)

    I just want to know which GTA will be better.

  • anomagnus #21 4 years ago

    @dsmx

    don't you ever say viking is crappy, EVER, DO YOU HEAR ME?!?!?!?!?!

    /shakes fist so hard!!!!!

  • bioreit #22 4 years ago

    parrapa needs to get a clue about how EG actually tests the images.

    Failing that, he could always actually read the frikkin' face-offs, where the technology used is made painfully clear, in quite precise terms...

  • nickthegun #23 4 years ago

    I cannot WAIT for the GTA4 edition.

    /no. seriously. I havent made my mind up over which version to get yet....

  • Big-Swiss #24 4 years ago

    I wish you all...... well you know, death!

  • muscleblade #25 4 years ago

    "I just want to know which GTA will be better. "

    Stupid question.

  • the_dudefather #26 4 years ago

    so children still fighting over who's toy is better then?

  • muscleblade #27 4 years ago

    @dsmx

    You havent played Dark Sector thats for sure.

    Probably the best PS3 game yet. Among the top 20 for 360 imo.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 14:22

  • sirtacos #28 4 years ago

    I read - somewhere - that Eurogamer test their PS3 games without full RGB or super-white on.

    The bigger issue is why I even care in the first place, but let's not get into that.

    The issue I'm addressing is that not turning those two options on decreases the image quality - making Assassin's creed, for example, look worse (blurred with washed out colours) on the PS3 than on the 360, when in fact they're both virtually identical.

    I have both consoles so it doesn't matter to me either way, but I'd be curious to see developers build their games on the PS3 and THEN do conversions for the 360. I'd be curious to see how the two machines stack up then.

    Honestly though I don't think either system is better (although I did buy one just because it was the cheapest blu-ray player available). They're both big plastic boxes to waste your time with.

  • AbyssUK #29 4 years ago

    Richard Leadbetter and post a working article. Also I bet that's the first time somebody made that pun of your name.. I deserve a medal for comedy.

  • jaywalker3010 Verified Mastering Manager, Square Enix #30 4 years ago

    Yeh the GTA4 edition of this article will be a very good one :)

  • muscleblade #31 4 years ago

    @the_dudefather

    Only PS3 owners fight over this. 360 owners dont need to. And for people that owns both this is old news.

  • woodnotes #32 4 years ago

    "@dsmx

    You havent played Dark Sector thats for sure.

    Probably the best PS3 game yet. Among the top 20 for 360 imo."

    I totally see what you did there :p

  • woodnotes #33 4 years ago

    "I read - somewhere - that Eurogamer test their PS3 games without full RGB or super-white on."

    Eh? Full RGB is the same as the 'Expanded' option in 360's display settings (although 360 has 'Intermediate" too - bonus!) So if they don't enable Full RGB on PS3, they may not enable 'Expanded' on the 360 either.

    And Super-White doesn't even do anything on most displays.

  • aldo_14 #34 4 years ago

    I'm torn between these two consoles nowadays; the PS3 is overpriced and still inferior graphically (I had expected them to level up or even overtake once people began developing more experience on the PS3), but the 360 is somewhat out of date in terms of hard disk, costs too much to play online (well, versus free) and doesn't support Blu-Ray (which is an issue for the inevitable telly upgrade).

    Hope they bring out GTA4 on PC, then.

  • TONYgr #35 4 years ago

    considering this i know now for what platform i will buy the gta 4!

  • the_dudefather #36 4 years ago

    @muscleblade
    360 tend to throw a lot of stones in situations like these as well, which is always odd as why should they care if the PS3 is inferior?

  • menage #37 4 years ago

    @muscleblade

    I'm stupid, please tell oh wise one.

  • NickN4ck #38 4 years ago

    I'm shocked to see PS3 loses this round, I mean that's 11 in a row, if this fight was real the trainer would have thrown in the towel ages ago or the doctor would have stopped the fight due to PS3 having brain damage and no more teeth.

    How it can still stand to face off in round 12 I just don't know, all 360 will have to do is blow on it to knock it down in the GTA IV round.

    They really should ban this blood sport, it's just gruesome seeing PS3 all bloody with his balls torn off after 11 punishing rounds.

  • bioreit #39 4 years ago

    @ sirtacos

    Round One : "capturing full 24-bit RGB shots and video from each system's best-performing AV output: HDMI from the PS3, and VGA from 360"

    Round Two : "at full HD resolution 24-bit RGB using the PS3's HDMI digital output"

    Round Three : "Colour saturation appears to vary depending on the system and the game, but full-range RGB was a must on both systems"

    Round Four : "acquired digitally and losslessly at full 24-bit precision from the HDMI ports of the Xbox 360 Elite and the PlayStation 3 respectively"

    Round Five : "captured digitally and losslessly from the HDMI ports of the Xbox 360 Elite and PlayStation 3 respectively, both set to full range RGB output"

    Round Six : "comparison screenshots of each game, losslessly extracted with full 24-bit RGB precision from the HDMI ports of the Xbox 360 Elite and PlayStation 3"

    Round Seven : "A Digital Foundry HD capture station is used to acquire every last pixel output by the consoles at full 24-bit precision, with the unit calibrated to full-range RGB and both systems set up likewise"

    Round Eight : "Full precision 24-bit RGB shots are losslessly extracted from the HDMI ports of the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 Elite"

    Round Nine : "games are tested side-by-side, their video outputs losslessly captured in full 24-bit RGB precision via the HDMI ports of our PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 Elite"

    Round Ten : "Backing that up is the usual range of 720p and 1080p (where PS3 supports it) full precision, full-range 24-bit RGB dumps of every game"

    Round Eleven : "Lossless 24-bit RGB frame grabs are ruthlessly swiped from the HDMI ports of the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 Elite"


    I cannot comment about the superwhite, but it's always, ALWAYS, been made dead clear that full RGB was used. Which would be obvious to anyone who actually, you know, reads the articles. Rather than making spurious comments based on 'What some other bloke I don't even know told me'.

  • warbo #40 4 years ago

    These features are very interesting. Thanks EG.

  • Mint #41 4 years ago

    Are these articles actually attracting less comments or does my swelling ignore list just make it seem that way?

  • Grayvern #42 4 years ago

    Thing is a lot of 360 owners wont be viewing their games through HDMI theyll be using component. And even if i bought an elite id probably still use vga or component as my tv as do a lot of HDTV's has no optical out, that and my surround sound as no hdmi in because its old.

  • Buztafen #43 4 years ago

    ^Keh?

  • NickN4ck #44 4 years ago

    The only way PS3 is going to win the GTA IV round (round 12) is if it's like Rocky and 360 is like Oppolo Creed, but we all know PS3 isn't Rocky, it's this guy

    [link url=http://www.worth1000.com/entries/257500/257607RxAW_w.jpg
    ]http://ww w.worth1000.com/entries/257500/...[/link]

    I'll be buying GTA IV on 360, the champion console that won every round of the fight.

  • penhalion #45 4 years ago

    Completely ignoring the article as I find these comparisons to be annoying unless something is genuinely worse on either console.

    @sirtacos

    "The issue I'm addressing is that not turning those two options on decreases the image quality - making Assassin's creed, for example, look worse (blurred with washed out colours) on the PS3 than on the 360, when in fact they're both virtually identical."

    Superwhite and full rgb have nothing to do with how blurry an image looks mate, that's down to the way the image is er..blurred by the graphics engine. Having a PS3 I can tell you that full RGB makes frak all difference to assasins creed and in some instances actually makes it look too dark! Best solution I found was to calibrate the HDTV I have for each HDMI source individually.

    The thing is, that unless eurogamer actually comes out with a recommended calibration guide, the reviewers can only go by the standard settings of a machine to judge what the majority of people will be seeing. Gametrailers proved this gamer TV proved this etc. etc. That's why the superwhite/full rgb argument disappeared practically overnight.

  • Machiavellian #46 4 years ago

    I use the face offs because I have a 360 and PS3. Yes, most of the games are garbage but then again some of us have kids who like games like Sega SuperStars Tennis. For me, I see myself Renting Dark Sector and Viking and since the 360 gives the best experience, I will be getting that version.

  • muscleblade #47 4 years ago

    @menage

    Sorry it was not intended to be taken peronally , but considering all of these articles and the extra DLC wich is suppose to be huge i would think the choice if you have both machines is quite obiouvs, even more so if you dont have either cause of the price difference.

  • polar #48 4 years ago

    Who gives a shit anymore?

    Down with this sort of thing!

  • Diomedes #49 4 years ago

    Massive drops in frame rate in Viking PS3?Lol you must be on drugs ....


    Now seriously ....how many checks is Microsoft sending you for these appalling comparisions?

  • Buztafen #50 4 years ago

    None, apparently their sending yo momma!

  • Madlax #51 4 years ago

    Another Eurogamer attempt to increase hits i see. well it doesnt matter anymore, if anything people have made it clear that its not about 'graphics' anymore, or atleast not as much as before as proven with the Wii dominance.

    Its all about how you market your...'trash'..if i may say, the current market tells us that an average-looking game like Halo 3, with the support of hype and marketing will easily out-sell a graphicly superior game that has less established name and hype.



  • El_MUERkO #52 4 years ago

    i think eg should demand PS3 versions of games to review from any company with a reputation for half arsing PS3 versions of their games, which might make developers work harder on the PS3

    i don't demand an identical game, i'll settle for differences between the two that play to the consoles strengths but instead we get the 360 version abused and jammed on the PS3 :(
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 15:20

  • El_MUERkO #53 4 years ago

    would you tardbots stop going on about page hits, broken recordlol

  • GamesConnoisseur #54 4 years ago

    Half of these selections are a waste of time to use as comparasion point, these seem to be an obvious choice to show off PS3 inferiority (30 fps per 60 fps... what the matter with you supposedly vastly superior PS3!!!) and even then who cares about how Turning Point do well on either consoles?!

    I am quite clear that I prefer X360 as a gaming console of choice and using PS3 for exclusives (aside from BD) and for rare instances where it outperforms X360 in certain areas, though not yet got a particular PS3 multi platform title on that reason! Others prefer PS3 for their stated reasons, ok so they are equally happy as I am with our preferences.

    Think everyone by now only interested in the Head to Head of them all, the much anticipated GTA4 Head to Head feature to settle the playground arguments of which console have most complete and true GTA4 version!

    Dont do any more of those low ranking score games please!!!!

  • speedjack #55 4 years ago

    Love these articles.

    Please keep doing this.

    Its just fascinating.

  • TheNinkyNonk #56 4 years ago

    "so is it true that the PS3 has 20 more multiple strobes than the Xbox 360? I read it can render polygons on an angle better also.

    Depends how many supersplines are being processed by the flump valve, there's a slight bottleneck due to the low number of woggle transistors"

    I find things work more smoothly when the acces-flange is connected to the multi-quim

    But seriously, I have no problem with these comparisons as it confirms that the PS3 is a great shit-filter - only the best devs get through in one piece

  • monkie_king #57 4 years ago

    clutch at those straws!

  • bioreit #58 4 years ago

    On a totally unrelated note, HMV emailed me at 12 today, to say that my copy of GTA IV has been shipped. So, hopefully, I'll get it at my house on Saturday (it usually taking a full working day for their stuff to reach me) :-D

    I may be somewhat sleep-deprived come Monday morning.

  • menage #59 4 years ago

    @Muscleblade

    No sweat then.

    I own both machines, and seeing how things break I just like to spread my chances across both platforms. Next to that the DLC would hit at a time when I would probably be playing 10 new releases so I don't think that would pull me to that side.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 15:27

  • SBfistfun #60 4 years ago

    @Buztafen
    None, apparently their sending yo momma!

    Best post this week :D

  • cjb110 #61 4 years ago

    you need a scorecard or something, so we can see which is the best platform per game, and what are the reasons the other one is poor (downgraded res, jerkyness whatever)

  • Marshall2008 #62 4 years ago

    This is pretty much the same story as before. The Devs seem to still be getting the hang of PS3 games but are inching closer to releasing games which will eventually look identical on both formats.

    The main problem for the developers is the lack of actual dev kits.

    There are 2 types of hardware they get from Sony, full dev kits (those massive boxes we saw the early PS3 stuff demo'd on and the test stations (they look just like normal PS3's.)

    Due to the lack of full dev kits means that when testing on PS3 test stations they get little debug feedback due to lack of memory in the test kits. If they had more actual full dev kits they would be able to test more vigourously on these and development would push forward more quickly.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 15:37

  • monkie_king #63 4 years ago

    cjb110: based on the 11 Face-Offs so far, you would only need the second column ...

  • ligurmatic #64 4 years ago

    I didn't read any of the comparisons due to an utter lack of interest in the games listed.

    However, +1 for SSX HD.

  • speedsix #65 4 years ago

    If you switch Full-RGB/Reference you must recalibrate. I don't understand why people say things like it's too dark/washed out etc. RECALIBRATE!!!

    People don't half spout some crap about these options.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 15:43

  • Ali_sdf_pwn3d #66 4 years ago

    these artecles are crap!!! every1 nos ps3 has best grafics, xbox cant turn on long enuf to play n e games!

  • prolific8 #67 4 years ago

    11-0 then.

  • Bulbatron #68 4 years ago

    "...a bit like joining a Doctor Who discussion forum."

    Sounds like the writer of this article might have spent some time at Outpost Gallifrey! I'll tell you what though, how about forums with Silent Hill Homecoming discussions? They harbour more nasty little freaks than the games themselves!

  • Calgon #69 4 years ago

    FACT: The PS3 has games running in full 1080p 60fps with full detailed worleds, whereas the 360 arely manages it using upscaling.


    No thats bullshit and everyone knows it.

  • Stonker #70 4 years ago

    Another slow fucking news day at eurogamer it seems..............

  • Diomedes117 #71 4 years ago

    Truth is that the Xbox 360 only got 1080p because the PS3 had it. So, who can explain why the PS3 gets PAWNED every time???
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 15:58

  • MangoBen #72 4 years ago

    All this shows is that there's an awful lot of shit multiformat games. And that headbogs still a cunt.

  • Calgon #73 4 years ago

    The gap is the same as its been for the last 4-5 of these articles now, whats changed exactly?

    Listen developers have had more than enough time now, the difference isnt that great anyway its just people who own both will know which to get with these articles... "Sonybots" are really sore about them though.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 16:08

  • Gibroon #74 4 years ago

    PS3 still a bitch to code for, shock. When are Sony going to help 3rd party delopment teams because it seems they need a helping hand to get it up to par with the 360.

    /waits some more

  • jonsaan #75 4 years ago

    Yet another list of shitgames, regardless of minor differences, they are still shit. Sega Tennis excluded.

  • NickN4ck #76 4 years ago

    Condemned 2 is not shit. You Sony fans should stay out of these face off threads if you're going to act like children everytime you get your ass handed to you on a plate.

    Go cry to Sony for releasing a shit console, it's not our fault.
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/08 @ 16:22

  • Garulon #77 4 years ago

    Aplogie time!!!!

    pleaseplaeaspleaselpeasepleaseplaesplease

  • Dismiss #78 4 years ago

    Hmm, haven't got a chance to try all those games on my machines, but I have to say that Dark Sector did look slightly better on my PS3 than it did on my 360. Then again, my 360 doesn't have HDMI, so that could be it. Or it could be that beauty is in the eye of the beholder or something like that.

    One thing's for sure, though, and I wish developers took it into account: you can't treat the PS3 as a PC, development-wise. PS2 could run God of War with 4 MB of texture memory, and I expect similar wizardry from Sony 1st-party development. Eventually.

    When's all said and done, however, I love how that 1080p thing has become an embarassment to both consoles, especially the PS3.

  • anomagnus #79 4 years ago

    headbog, arbiter

    if you believe that eurogamer is xbox 360 biased, which site do you feel isnt?

    i'm not being a prick, i'm just curious, after all, i;m buying a ps3 in june for mgs4

  • anomagnus #80 4 years ago

    @jonsaan

    to be fair, i wouldn't classifiy viking or condemned as shit

    they're GOOD titles not GREAT titles

  • ronuds #81 4 years ago

    "Why do you lot ignore the fact the 360 is a overpriced hairdryer emulation kit?"

    That's not saying much about the PS3 now is it? An overpriced hairdryer that plays games better than a games console. Boy how far technology has come!

    Where's Apologie's inevitable list of PS3 exclusives that we're all supposed to be impressed with?

    And since when is Condemned shit? Condemned isn't a 10/10 game, no, but it's by no means shit either.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 16:27

  • anomagnus #82 4 years ago

    @ headbog

    Why do you lot ignore the fact the 360 is a overpriced hairdryer emulation kit?

    that was quite funny

    you're still a mad ps3 fanboy bastard though

  • cyber_nicco #83 4 years ago

    What I do find interesting is the built-in excuse for the PS3 that "development obviously led on the 360...". If I remember correctly (and I'm sure I do), virtually every "last gen", multi-platform title was led on PS2, yet was almost always slightly superior on the Xbox. I know that was due the Xbox's superior hardware, but the consistent PS3 thrashings should at least indicate that the PS3 hardware (at best) seems no better than the 360 hardware (except for the 360's reliability problems in the early runs) for gaming.

    I'm sure I'll be beaten about the head and neck for this, but I just felt it should be said...

    edit: A little here...a little there...
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 17:06

  • cov #84 4 years ago

    at last a reviewer who feels the same way about Viking and Assassins creed and for the same reasons and well argued.

  • Rash' #85 4 years ago

    I don't have a 360 so my only option is PS3 for multiplat games. These comparisons are interesting, because they demostrate only the best devs get the most out of both hardwares. Case in point Burnout and Call of Duty. The games on this list... meh. I have high hopes for GTA4, simply because as a dev I rate R* more than I rate the mediocre devs working on the majority of games put up for these articles.

    If you want to fight over mediocrity, by all means, you're welcome to it.
    Edited by 4 at 24/04/08 @ 16:43

  • GamesProgrammer Verified Games Team Programmer, Eutechnyx Ltd. #86 4 years ago

    I expect the main reason lesser games are compared is because the AAA titles are identical graphically, so an article that says same same same same all the way down would be extremley boring.

  • SlackMaster #87 4 years ago

    Why do PS3 owners have to be so bitter... Just admit that both consoles are largely similar in terms of graphical capability and move on.

    Seriously if you have both consoles it's handy to know which sports the best version.

  • seasidebaz #88 4 years ago

    i don't know why i just read that entire article... the games in the comparisons aren't great, regardless of the console.

    waste of 5 minutes i'll never get back.

  • CatWeazle #89 4 years ago

    *sigh*

    Its a very simple trade-off really:

    XBOX 360 : Less pricey, less reliable, more powerful

    PLAYSTATION 3 : More pricey, totally reliable, less powerful, integrated blueray player

    Make your choice.

    CW

  • TriggerHippie #90 4 years ago

    When the ps2 first came out there was a furor about how difficult it was to develop for. The port of the DOA from the Dreamcast was horrible compared to the original for example. If these articles demonstrate anything it is that lazy ports to the ps3 suffer.

    If the situation is the same in a years time then some conclusions could be drawn but as it stand all we're learning is that most developers havent gotten to grips with the ps3 while a select few others are making an effort and getting results.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 16:55

  • monkie_king #91 4 years ago

    yeah, let's give it another year.

  • seasidebaz #92 4 years ago

    @catweazle:

    stop trolling. take it to gamefaqs, where they care about such things. come back and talk about "console power" when you know about such things.

    ps3 has more "raw" power, xbox360 has much nicer architecture and thus the "power" is easier to make use of.

  • jonnyboll #93 4 years ago

    Hawe you guys set the ps3 setings to full hd ??

  • Rash' #94 4 years ago

    CatWeazle, Re: less powerful, more powerful.

    Magnus H¿gdahl, Technical director on The Darkness:

    "The PS3 will have a content size advantage with Blu-ray and a CPU advantage for titles that are able to utilize a lot of the SPUs. The Xbox 360 has a slight GPU advantage and its general purpose triple-core CPU is relatively easy to utilize compared to SPUs. I expect that it will be near impossible to tell Xbox 360 and PS3 screenshots apart."

    Link: [link url=http ://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/704/704524p2.html
    ]http://uk .ps3.ign.com/articles/704/70452...[/link]

  • seasidebaz #95 4 years ago

    @hedbog:

    fight part 2 lol

  • monkie_king #96 4 years ago

    One interesting thing about the PS3's SPE architecture is that of the 7 SPEs, one is reserved full-time by for system use, and another is available for use by games, but must be given up if the system asks for it. So you basically get 5 SPEs you can use full time, and 1 SPE that you can use when the system doesn't need it.

    Now, if Sony are planning to add in game XMB/Home integration etc., in forthcoming updates, where's the extra processing power going to come from? Is that shared SPE suddenly going to have a lot more demand from the system? And if so, might the in game XMB actualy cause existing games to perform worse in future?

    /wonders if anyone PS3 savvy can shed some light on this.

  • warbo #97 4 years ago

    To those fan persons who complain about the games compared: Both the multi-platform titles that were arguably superior on PS3 have featured (Oblivion and Burnout Paradise).

  • seasidebaz #98 4 years ago

    @monkie_king:

    cpu interrupts. they've been around forever.

  • monkie_king #99 4 years ago

    Hmm, well done not answering the question at all.

  • seasidebaz #100 4 years ago

    @monkie_king (again)

    i don't even know where i was going with that one :)

    seriously, though, the xmb will only be active at the time when the normal "exit game" menu is up (ie when the ps button is pressed)

    it would seem logical that the game has halted execution at this point, and so the extra spu can be used then. and afaik, you can't bring up home mid game?

  • Rash' #101 4 years ago

    monkie_king, I don't know the technical ins and out of your question, but I doubt the tech guys at $ony haven't prepared themselves for any shortcomings from introducing in game xmb.

    Edit: Additionally, I don't except them to introduce the whole xmb in game. I think that's a big ask. I'd be pleasantly surprised, but wouldn't hold my breath. I suspect they'll include the necessary in game features.
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/08 @ 17:26

  • monkie_king #102 4 years ago

    If it's anything like live, there'll be a bunch of stuff going on in the background though, to do all the cross-game invites and notifications and things like that.

    It's a bit of a worst-case scenario, but I'm wondering if there are games that rely pretty heavily on 6 SPEs, and will struggle a bit when one of them is busier than normal doing XMB housekeeping. The actual impact will probably be negligible, but I've been wondering about it since learned about that shared SPE thing.

    I suppose it's a bit like running a game on Windows and having MSN Messenger going in the background, there's a theoretical performance hit, but not noticable.

  • seasidebaz #103 4 years ago

    notifications are already there though. so there is already some kind of mechanism.

    i don't really think it's that big a job. might just affect a couple of the early games, though.

    the xmb doesn't need to be running constantly. it just needs loading up when required, so there shouldn't be any performance hit.

  • BBIAJ #104 4 years ago

    The X-Box 360 screen of Turning Point: Lack Of Quality is slightly unfair, or at least, proof that the PStriple loads the textures in quicker, as the building top on the right, and the city skyline, haven't yet loaded in properly.

    Aside from that, the only other difference is the PStriple has better looking clouds, but when a game plays this badly, and is so completely and utterly shit, that's hardly a plus now, is it?

  • tonynibbles #105 4 years ago

    For the love of god, *turn on RGB Full* for the PS3 screenshots

  • Bust_Nak #106 4 years ago

    Viking vindicated! Especially the bit about bashing heavy attack button to kill everything not being true.

  • Rash' #107 4 years ago

    monkie_king: Just had to double check my facts. 9 core chip. 1 PPE, 8 SPUs. 1 SPU disabled to improve yield rates and 1 reserved for system. That leaves 6 SPUs for media related functions. I'm curious; where did you get that 5 SPUs figure from?

    And I highly doubt any game is making full use of that allocated figure. From my understanding devs are barely managing 2 or 3 SPUs at the moment.

  • tonynibbles #108 4 years ago

    @ bioreit

    Round One : "capturing full 24-bit RGB shots and video from each system's best-performing AV output: HDMI from the PS3, and VGA from 360"

    Round Two : "at full HD resolution 24-bit RGB using the PS3's HDMI digital output"


    Yeh, that would be great, if it wasn't for the fact that Round One and Two were done before firmware 1.80 came out, which added Full RGB to PS3.

  • Rash' #109 4 years ago

    farticusmaximus, lets have this conversation in a couple of years when M$ introduce the next xbox and leave it's existing consumers high and dry... ;o)
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 17:52

  • Dizzy #110 4 years ago

    Why doesn't EG just get to the point and declare the PS3 architecture inferior designed for games. After all this time... the supposedly uber machine can not run any cross platform game better than 360.

    Kinda funny all the excuses in this thread.
    "Wait untill the PS3 does XXXXX"
    "It is closing the gap"
    "It is only using 1 SPU"
    "Potential!!!!"
    ...
    Edited by 3 at 24/04/08 @ 17:59

  • Rash' #111 4 years ago

    Dizzy wrote: "Why doesn't EG just get to the point and declare the PS3 architecture inferior designed for games."

    For your reference:

    Sam Houser, Rockstar President:

    “One of the problems with the 360, and it affects games like Grand Theft Auto if you think about how much content we put in the actual machine, is the fact that they don't have a significantly larger storage medium than the previous systems. It's a slightly bigger DVD disc,..."

    “I think that the 360 is going to have to get 'round this issue we're talking about. I can think of various ways they can do it. Hopefully, they're going to adopt one of those in the next year or so, because it's going to become more of an issue. If we're filling up the disc right now, where are we going? It's not like our games are going to get any smaller. I think that issue's on the table with a bunch of games right now. I'm sure they'll come through with an intelligent solution.”

    "In retrospect I wish Microsoft had made the choice to have [mandatory] hard drives like Sony did with the PS3... Developers certainly benefit [from a hard drive]. If you have a hard drive, the whole game loads faster. Obviously you'll be facing a short install time, but the developer benefits from it and you definitely benefit from it as a player. So I think that was one of the mistakes that Microsoft made with the 360."

    Link: [link url=http://www.next-gen.biz/index.p hp?option=com_content&task=view&id=10137&Itemid=59
    ]http://ww w.next-gen.biz/index.php?option...[/link]

  • Dizzy #112 4 years ago

    Ha yes Rash... the Bluray excuse. I should have added that one to my post. If the drive was fast enough it might have made a difference.

    Up until today.... zero non-RPGs have needed a Bluray drive and that will almost certainly not change until the next gen and even then I assume size will get smaller or at least stay similar due to procedural generated content.

    BTW MS could easily solve R*s problem by putting a requires HDD on the box... but we all know how great those installs on HDDs are don't we :)
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/08 @ 18:04

  • Rash' #113 4 years ago

    Dizzy, Denial can be virtue... ;o)

  • Dizzy #114 4 years ago

    "Dizzy, Denial can be virtue... ;o) "

    Yea... I can see you are a happy man.

  • Rash' #115 4 years ago

    Dizzy, Well I do have the President of a renowned multiplat dev backing my assertion.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 18:07

  • Rash' #116 4 years ago

    farticusmaximus, How many back cat games can play on 360 again? I have 60GB version which surely tells you I did my homework before investing?
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/08 @ 18:12

  • Dizzy #117 4 years ago

    "Dizzy, Well I do have the President of a renowned multiplat dev backing my assertion. "

    If only his game would run better on the PS3 then :)

  • Rash' #118 4 years ago

    Dizzy, Do you have a crystal Ball???

    Anyway returning to your original claim that PS3 "architecture inferior designed for games". BS.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 18:15

  • urban #119 4 years ago

    ban this sick filth

  • Dizzy #120 4 years ago

    "Dizzy, Do you have a crystal Ball??? "

    You might be surprised :)

    "Anyway returning to your original claim that PS3 "architecture inferior designed for games". BS. "

    Haven't seen anything prove that yet sadly. Since I only do 360/PC/Mobile development I have never tested the PS3 dev kits myself. I just look at the result and I see games that are as good as the 360 version but nothing better. I see a lot of stuff that is worse. Logical conclusion: hardware is a mess. EG seems to agree.
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/08 @ 18:17

  • Rash' #121 4 years ago

    Dizzy, I doubt it. ;o)

  • Xerx3s #122 4 years ago

    Oh Jesus wept.

    "Fact: PS3 games are getting better, except when a shitty port from a 360 is involved."
    Sure they are, but when will they be equal? At the end of the cycle? That will be an investment well worth it then. It's not like 360 games aren't getting better either...

    "FACT: The PS3 has games running in full 1080p 60fps with full detailed worleds, whereas the 360 arely manages it using upscaling."

    Bull. There are games on the 360 that run 1080p native as well and most ps3 games run 720p just like most 360 games.

    "FACT: you are all desperate, weak XBOTS who desere a kick up the arse. "

    Uhm, I don't like these articles but the score is 11-0. Wtf would the 'xbots' be desperate about? Sounds to me like you are the only one who is desperate, which is a bit sad, you know...it's only a machine. I agree that some peeps posting here are arrogant idiots but I don't think desperate is the right word.

  • Rash' #123 4 years ago

    Dizzy, Haven't read anything to suggest EG agree. If fact in this very article they bemoan the lack of effort when converting. And as you have no experience I think it's safer to stick to my source than the uninform rants of a EG poster. No offence, but as you yourself admit, you don't have a clue on the architecture to make any informed opinions on it.

  • monkie_king #124 4 years ago

    Rash': I've read the "5 SPEs" thing various places, I think originally in a PS3 developer presentation or article, possibly one of the Insomniac or Naughty Dog folks.

    Can't give you a reference, as Google just returns thousands of fanboy forum arguments ;)

  • ronuds #125 4 years ago

    @ monkie_king

    Regarding your xmb question...I don't know that an entire SPE would be required, but maybe so. Sony's main issue is allocating enough memory to run an xmb in game. Right now, I believe the PS3 allocates something around 60mb of it's total 512mb towards the OS and such. That's a pretty large allocation considering the 360 only requires about half that - and it also cuts into how well a game can run given how many mb's are required. Sony needs to figure out a way to fit the OS and xmb within that 60mb or games could possibly suffer in the future. If that happened, I don't think these comparison articles would get any better for the PS3.

    As far as # of SPE's available are concerned, I believe the final # is a total of 7. Since Sony at first had trouble getting producing a cell chip with all 8 SPE's functioning properly, one of the SPE's was scrapped.

  • Rash' #126 4 years ago

    Xerx3s, I don't like these articles either because they are predominately to do with mediocre games. Those that of certian distinction are arguably as good (Call of Duty) or better (Burnout, Oblivion). Sorry, didn't want to go there but you're the one keeping tabs on score...

  • Xerx3s #127 4 years ago

    "ps3 has more "raw" power, xbox360 has much nicer architecture and thus the "power" is easier to make use of. "

    That's not 100% true and you know it. Oh and chip design was part of me previous studies - before you go there.

  • Rash' #128 4 years ago

    monkie_king, well can you mention specifics? What's the third SPU needed for?

  • ronuds #129 4 years ago

    "FACT: The PS3 has games running in full 1080p 60fps with full detailed worleds, whereas the 360 arely manages it using upscaling."

    Like Xerxs said, this couldn't be any further from a fact.

  • Rash' #130 4 years ago

    Xerx3s wrote: "That's not 100% true and you know it. Oh and chip design was part of me previous studies - before you go there."

    Then what is 100%?

    Common knowledge is 360 has better GPU PS3 has better CPU.

  • Xerx3s #131 4 years ago

    Rash': Ah but the oblivion was a comparison of the ps3 version + 1 year of extra development and the normal version. hardly a fair comparison is it? I don't recall the articles about COD4 and burnout but for games that use the ps3 as lead platform, the results are meagre. It makes me wonder what the results would have been if it was lead developed on the 360.

    Not that this matters, it's all m00t imo. Just enjoy the games on whatever platform you want to play it.

  • monkie_king #132 4 years ago

    Here it is:
    http://www.insomniacgames.com/t ech/articles/0108/files/RFOM_Debriefing_public.pdf.< br />
    Apparently the 6th SPU can be stolen by the OS to use for the AC3 Encoder, amongst other things. So you should only run jobs on it that can be interrupted. It's therefore not in the general-use SPE pool (in RFOM's implementation anyway, as they found that would be less efficient).

    edit: Slides 31 and 32, if you're interested.
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/08 @ 18:42

  • Xerx3s #133 4 years ago

    Rash': Well, you pretty much pointed it out there, it can't be said as simple as that. Besides, there are far more factors that will tip the balance in favour of one or the other than those two things mentioned.

  • DjFlex52 #134 4 years ago

    FACT: headbog is swam...we get two assholes for the price of one!

  • ronuds #135 4 years ago

    Yeah, mysteriously swam hasn't shown up in here, but headbog has. He's like Superman...Clark Kent one second and Superman the next.

    Well, maybe he's more like UNsuperman...

  • Rash' #136 4 years ago

    Xerx3s, I can't recall fair being valid grounds for dismissal of an argument, otherwise lack of dev experience with an architecture and not leading with said architecture would leverage my argument further. As we've all come to accept here, it's all fair game, so whether one system is easier to develop for or not, the only thing that can be taken from these articles is that it's the devs that are at fault for not balancing their resources sufficiently enough to deliver a consist experience, regardless of paltform.
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/08 @ 18:50

  • Rash' #137 4 years ago

    monkie_king, Great, thanks!

  • Dizzy #138 4 years ago

    "No offence, but as you yourself admit, you don't have a clue on the architecture to make any informed opinions on it. "

    ROFL. Says the guys who quotes stuff he reads on the Internet like no tomorrow. AT least I develop games... just not on PS3. But by just looking around, there are basically no games on PS3 that could not be done on 360. I always assumed Sony sold the Ps3 as a 10 times more powerful machine? Wasn't the 360 XBox 1.5? Ironic that the might PS3 cannot outdo the XBox 1.5 on cross platform stuff no?

    " from these articles is that it's the devs that are at fault for not balancing"

    As a dev I can add that it is the hardware that is at fault for not providing a good dev SDK/Environment. In the 80s we liked to play around with low level hardware. Not anymore. Games are big now... we like to work instead of fuck around. Sony ignored that rule. I hope they smart up with PS4 and make a PS1 again.
    Edited by 3 at 24/04/08 @ 18:52

  • ronuds #139 4 years ago

    @ Rash

    I think a large part of this "dev laziness" is down to the fact that the rewards won't be nearly as great as they will be on the 360. When you have a business model that needs to be split in half, but you know 70% of your earnings are coming from one half and 30% from the other, which are you going to concentrate more time, money and resources to?

    If the PS3 can start selling more games maybe devs would take more time to develop their games specifically for it. Until then, however, I don't see this trend changing much.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 18:52

  • Ryze #140 4 years ago

    What a bunch of shite. Who buys these games?

  • seasidebaz #141 4 years ago

    @xerxes:

    i'm not disputing about the chip design, but i know for a fact that the 360's general performance is raised thanks to the shared ram. most cross-platform games don't account for the fact that, on ps3, the art assets must be put into vram first (much like with an agp graphics card) and so the assets are streamed in pretty much the same way that works fantastically on the 360, but bottlenecks on the ps3. the same thing occurs going backwards, and the framebuffer on the 360 can be easily accessed whereas on the ps3, anything requiring the cpu to access the framebuffer will result in a bottleneck, and if that really needs to happen in a real game, the situation should be looked at because the devs are being lazy. if games are made with the ps3 as lead machine, the art assets will be put in the correct place to start with, so bottlenecks are alleviated.

  • Rash' #142 4 years ago

    Dizzy, You can't seem to stay stick to your own topic can you? Let me rephrase: your assertion that PS3 is an ill designed system for games is, as you yourself admitted, an uninformed nonsensical rant. Admitting you're a dev doesn't do your credibility any credit.

  • FladgeMangle #143 4 years ago

    I'm deeply disappointed about the comments regarding Viking on PS3.

    Didn't Creative Asembly boast recently abut how brilliant they were because their PS3 development was on a par with their 360?

    A pity they were lying then, I was looking forward to this one.

  • captainrentboy #144 4 years ago

    I played GTA 4 in work today, God damn it's kind of slow, it looks lovely and the character animation is facking supoib, but sadly the framerate seems a bit all over the shop. Still buying it though.
    Yeah it's not relevant, just wanted to show off.

  • monkie_king #145 4 years ago

    Ronuds, you've nailed it there. Why spend the majority of your development budget on the minority platform?

    From what I remember, the Assassin's Creed developers reckon they spent about 70% of their time on the PS3 version, to create a version that was still inferior to the 360, and a much smaller potential audience. It seems like the only way to get equal performance from the PS3 is to make it the lead platform, as with Burnout Paradise and CoD4.

    I guess the good news for the PS3 is that if/when it does begin to significantly close the gap, there'll be a more persuasive economic case to devote more resource to it, so ports should improve as the audience grows.

  • Rash' #146 4 years ago

    ronuds, what you describe is a conservative business model, which only the greater devs can transcend, e.g: Criterion, Infinity Ward. To assume that it isn't likely to change is a little premature, considering reports of preorders of PS3 GTA4 out doing 360 version 3-1. Hope that makes sense. Am a little rushed now.
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/08 @ 19:08

  • anomagnus #147 4 years ago

    i like djflex52:D

    i have to say, of you guys know your stuff, and i cant keep up with the technical side

    But if i were sony, i'd be wondering, if developers cant take the time with a conversation of a non AAA game, how am i going to trust them to develop a AAA box seller?

    Like Nintendo, Sony are not doing a good enough job on QA. Now MS isnt perfect either, but, to me, it seems they put more effort in than the others

  • ronuds #148 4 years ago

    @ monkie_king

    The thing people don't consider when they talk about the PS3 "closing the gap" is the potential disparity between regions and how that affects game sales and development. The PS3 has a huge lead that is ever-growing (albeit slower than should have been) in Japan, but does that really matter for companies like EA or Ubi and the like who make most of their games for a Western audience? In Western regards, the 360 still has a gigantic lead over the PS3, due to US sales being 3 or 4 times those of the PS3 (and even, atm, UK sales). How long, if ever, will it be before the PS3 overtakes the 360 in Europe and the US combined, counting out Japan as a factor (even though it is a "small" one for the purpose of this discussion).

    When we talk about a game like GTA IV, all you ever hear about is how it's going to sell in Europe and the US...no mention of Japan at all. Well, it's obvious we have much different tastes in games than our Far East friends.

    So, will we ever see a time in this generation when PS3 game sales will be taken as seriously as the 360's? I don't know, but it's looking more and more like the PS3 will end up 3rd by a good amount in the US and in Europe it should beat the 360 overall, but by how much, given the UK is the largest market and the 360 has a strong enough presence there to keep it "competitive" against the PS3? All very interesting questions!

  • DAN.E.B #149 4 years ago

    Which one is best?
    well one things for sure the PS3 should should have been alot better than the 360
    coming much later and all the hype it should'nt be close at all!
    everyone was expecting soo much more
    and for this reason the PS3 has been a disapointment no matter how you look at it.

  • Rash' #150 4 years ago

    seasidebaz, as N'Gai Croal said, devs should lead on PS3 first, but as ronuds and croal himself pointed out the business models don't suit the dev needs.

  • Rash' #151 4 years ago

    ronuds, I have another question to factor in to your excellent points. What's the timescale of each company's business model for their platforms.

  • Darren #152 4 years ago

    Doesn't Dark Sector use anti-aliasing? If so then that explains why the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions look so similar despite the former being 640p and the latter 720p. Some decent AA can mask a lower rendering resolution well. However, Halo 3 lacks anti-aliasing completely so the jaggies which would have been evident at 720p anyway are made far worst and more obvious at 640p. In fact, Halo 3 is the Xbox 360's jaggiest looking game IMO (somewhat disappoint seeing as its a flagship title for the platform). Although other 360 games are also 600/640p, they tend to have anti-aliasing, e.g. Call of Duty 3, Tomb Raider Anniversary and Oblivion.

  • Dizzy #153 4 years ago

    "Dizzy, You can't seem to stay stick to your own topic can you? Let me rephrase: your assertion that PS3 is an ill designed system for games is, as you yourself admitted, an uninformed nonsensical rant"

    Dude... you are such a moron. You have done nothing to prove the opposite... just a quote that some guy think he *might* need Bluray in GTA V in 5 years time. That is the problem with the Internet these days. Kiddies read stuff everywhere and throw quotes in your face the whole time to show they know best.

    Since I have been in software the last 20 years I think I can spot a not-so-good designed system when I read the specs and the problems that fellow devs have. I am not saying the Ps3 is a total loss... but Sony totally oversold the system and it struggles to do what a good designed system can do easily.

    That is ok dude... since you are making games on the Ps3 (you are ofc I hope), I will leave it to you to produce those superior games that we have all been waiting for. I will just stick to my PC and mobile development and leave the really hard stuff to geniuses like you.

    "considering reports of preorders of PS3 GTA4 out doing 360 version 3-1"

    God you did it again. Some guy on EG probably said that in his store blah blah blah.... oh fuck this. I am outa here.
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/08 @ 19:50

  • rayk2099 #154 4 years ago

    Hehe, "Boodshot".

  • Calgon #155 4 years ago

    Should I bother?... what the heck...

    There are already games using all the SPUs, wasnt it your Uncharted devs using Sony's new tools to boot.

    Theres untapped potential in CELL but 360s CPU has it too.

    With Cell you have 6 SPUs(or 5 now if the system calls for it as someone pointed out) and one PPE, as the Cells engineers said, ideally the PPE will act as the main controller while the SPUs will do the legwork and we've already got first party games doing that at this point. Theres more optimisations to come but lets not pretend the SPUs havent been used yet.

    Cell is the stronger CPU but by no means does it blow 360s away, one thing I will say though is that the difference they are talking about isnt going to be graphics(they changed their original design of both PS3 and CELL when the early results werent good enough) It does have it's bottlenecks and they made some comprimises/less optimal decisions with CELL regarding the ring bus(element Interconnect bus) which all the components of CELL must share. This will be the limiting factor because the bandwidth(34 GB/s apparently) isnt great enough to handle alot of graphics, never mind with AI and physics ontop, it can be used for speciality tasks, like to help speed up RSX, post processing or other effects here and there but its not going to be in the pipeline. Using a traditional bus would have meant a larger more costly chip, I beleive their choices were to dedicate more chip space for computation performance(floating point atleast) which has its advantages and disadvantages(maybe this is what carmack meant).

    360s CPU has untapped potential too: multi-threading and multi-core optimistations, the VMX units are beleived to be able to speed up Floating point calculations by several times thats nothing to scoff at they havent been used much at all yet and then theres general code optimisations accross the board as the XNA team(formerly Xbox Advanced Technology Group) find more out about the 360. I could go on more about Xenos which has untapped potential too, the shaders, texture units, the e-dram ect this is a custom chip its clearly stronger than was first beleived(so "slight" isnt quite accurate enough, its stronger end of) and some of the stuff the XNA members were talking about last year makes me wonder if 360 might have even more untapped potential than the PS3.

    This could go back and forth, I think the safest bet right now is to assume things could stay this way, ie not that much in it, both consoles will improve with 360 just edging it every now and then.

    Does it really matter that much anymore? I think Wii shows most people dont care that much about how powerfull they are, I do personally but you cant say either of them are that bad in all fairness.
    Edited by 4 at 24/04/08 @ 20:10

  • ronuds #156 4 years ago

    @ Rash

    I wasn't implying that my proposed business model would hold true for every game and every developer, but it would probably fit for games that start off with a lesser budget (i.e., most of the games in this comparison article).

    And in all fairness to the 3:1 GTA IV claims, this is 1 retailer who claimed such and a retailer which isn't really known for selling video games in the first place. On top of that, without any kinds of figures to go around this, we're basically left with a bunch of speculation.

    Now, Game has said that it's seeing more 360 orders, so which is more and which is less? I'd think Game would hold more clout in this case.

  • ronuds #157 4 years ago

    @ Rash

    Didn't see your question until now...

    As far as time allocation is concerned, it would depend on a lot of different factors - most importantly, which is the lead platform. But porting obviously doesn't require the time of initial development. The best model is 2 different teams working on each platform, but the game would probably have to have guaranteed "x" number of sales for that to happen, such as COD4 and GTA and such.

  • mkreku #158 4 years ago

    This might come off as horribly trollish, but..

    11-0 for the Xbox 360 is like watching a brutal boxing fight that just never ends. By now the PS3 is lying on the canvas, bleeding, and the Xbox 360 just keeps on punching. And the stupid referee refuses to call it quits!

    YES, THE REFEREE IS YOU, EUROGAMER!

  • seasidebaz #159 4 years ago

    @dizzy: it's only been badly designed in that the gpu links up in a similar fashion to a pc's agp slot, but you would know that being a pc developer. i am one too, so feel i should clarify that the superior games will appear on the ps3. microsoft will replace the 360 in a couple of years, and that's already behind schedule as the followup should have been out next year (by microsoft's own schedule... j. allard even said this a couple of years ago...)

    @calgon: the ps3 has superior floating point maths. the 360 is very easy to develop for, but isn't the only processor that does multithreading and multi-core optimisations. the ps3 does multithreading, otherwise nothing would really work. it's not hard to set up a threading engine. and the main reason 360 games look better is due to the built-in upscaler (possibly microsoft's finest idea for the 360... the rest of the architecture was pretty much pinched from the gamecube)

    both consoles are great, but i think if devs start using the ps3 properly it will just edge it.

  • TRUTH #160 4 years ago

    360 with 11, &, PS3 with 0 wins...Half Life 2, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, Straglehold, VF 5, VT 3 looked or played inferior compared to 360, but also more expensive then 360 games.

  • stephenb #161 4 years ago

    I know that I for one said no to these types of articles when Eurogamer sent out there survey. Guess I was the only one? Enough allready poor articles that are only designed to boost posts on your site.

    /Is aware that he has increased post count :)

  • samaran #162 4 years ago

    please post the GTA comparison before tuesday, else i won't know which version i'm getting til i walk out the shop...

  • Calgon #163 4 years ago

    Yeah ronuds Game wins Asda easy.... "its over the PS3 is a sinking ship in Europe now". :p

  • smurphs #164 4 years ago

    I really appreciate these articles for a second opinion on recent titles. I would have dismissed Viking on the strength of the initial reviews but now I'm tempted to give it a go. Same with Dark Sector. I really enjoy the personal style of the writing too. Cheers!

  • Calgon #165 4 years ago

    seasidebaz I went more in depth than you gave me credit for there, Im well aware PS3 is a multiprocessor design(which I think is what you meant) and no the scaler is not the sole reason at all if you like I could tell you why Xenos is stonger than RSX with more potential to unlock. No Multi-threading isnt easy at all games havent really took full advantage of this even on the PC yet, this will take some time but there will be improvements with optimasations here(multi-core too obviously).

    I did conceed that CELL is the stronger CPU the problem is CELLs advantage is often exagerated(no denying this) and Xenos' advantage is often downplayed(its is clearly stronger than was first beleived which is where alot of those quotes come from... early days) and the XCPU isnt given much credit(the VMX optimisations will level the playing field somewhat for floating point performance if need be in future IMO).

    Im going to have to say I think 360 may indeed have more potential than PS3 once devs really start investing in it then I think 360 will edge it(theyve not needed to because its easy enough to develope for) I will say at the least anything the PS3 will do you'll see it on the 360 too for that reason... Sony has forced devs to invest in the technology more heavily in some cases, because they didnt like the results they berated them... tricky tactics maybe? If you like I will point you to the XNA technology talks they did last year regarding 360s potential, maybe some 3rd party devs who give 360 the edge or do you only listen to Sony? Well we have differing veiws on the subject obviously but I think its better to agree to disagree, just wait and see I guess.
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/08 @ 20:48

  • des #166 4 years ago

    Face it when it comes to gaming 360 hardware is more powerful,it is simply better for games.
    Sony just made a blu-ray player first and everything else is secondary...

  • Kryon #167 4 years ago

    These articles were much more fun when I didn't own both consoles....Ah well, I'll muster a "PS3LOL" for old times sake.

    /PS3LOLZ

    /It's just not the same anymore :(

  • Melan #168 4 years ago

    Is the xbox still noisy?

  • anomagnus #169 4 years ago

    conceding defeat swam?

    not your best comeback

    on the subject, here is scientific, indisputable proof about the xbox mastery

    [link url=http://www.googlefight.com/ind ex.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Xbox+360&word2=PlayStation+3
    ]http://ww w.googlefight.com/index.php?lan...[/link]

    plus side, its nearly tomorrow, GTA4 is out, which should tide me over to june, and my purchase of the MGS4 pack!

    HUZZAH!

    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 21:32

  • Kryon #170 4 years ago

    I Love Headbog and his equally retarded sock swam. I know it's mean but I do kinda get a guilty pleasure out of knowing how much this type of article upsets him, the poor kid's almost in tears :'(

  • septimus #171 4 years ago

    Yeah, what is it with your washed out PS3 shots?

    Anyway, lame ass conversions FTL. I won't buy these games for either console as they always suck anyway.

    Also, why does anyone listen to dizzy anymore? Answering just encourages him.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 21:42

  • RedPanda #172 4 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • Xerx3s #173 4 years ago

    Rash': Fair enough. I can't really comment on who is to blame for the shitty ports on the ps3 since I have no hands on experience with that sdk.

  • Xerx3s #174 4 years ago

    Calgon: Thank you for typing out the argument. I didn't start it as it is a never ending circle (there has been said far too much about it).
    In the end the hardware isn't really that important. One is a bit better in this and the other is a bit better in that. They both have their bottlenecks (funny enough, the disc format is one for both it seems).

    As someone who has moved away from hardware and moved into software, I must say, the ease and support that you get is the holy grail. It means that I have to spend less time in micro managing my code and can spend more time in making a better product. The last thing I want to do is go back to asm levels, it's just not cost effective and makes compatibility a fucking nightmare.
    The biggest advantage that MS has imo is not their hardware but their shear colossal development and support community.

  • anamenos #175 4 years ago

    farticusmaximus, you are the best man. 360 RULES!!!

  • FladgeMangle #176 4 years ago

    This thread reads like a collision between the cast of The Big Bang Theory and Eastenders.

    Once you 've read the intelligent technical debate some gurning chav leaps in and vomits forth trollish bile.

    I'm hopeful for the future of PS3 development. I have one and I admit to disliking microsoft enough to never get a 360 (have you used their operating systems? Blimey). What I also believe, as bourne out by so many of these face-offs, is the PS3 indeed less capable in a cross development cycle (significantly in some cases) where it isn't the lead machine. Which may never be. Which is crap.

    At least it's shiny and quiet. If you want it to be the machine Sony claimed it would be, stick to exclusives. Otherwise, put up with it or get a 360 and, in the case of the trolls on both sides, a life.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/08 @ 23:40

  • barchetta #177 4 years ago

    Christ, now I know what that 'Life on Mars' fella must have gone through....

    Hang on a minute, whats going on....

    /cue wibbly-wobbly time-tunnel effect

    Schoolyard circa 1985....

    "... but at least the 64 has a decent sound-chip......yeah, but those expanded sprites look wank....."


    Edited by 1 at 25/04/08 @ 00:38

  • Gaol #178 4 years ago

    "The thing people don't consider when they talk about the PS3 "closing the gap" is the potential disparity between regions and how that affects game sales and development. The PS3 has a huge lead that is ever-growing (albeit slower than should have been) in Japan, but does that really matter for companies like EA or Ubi and the like who make most of their games for a Western audience? In Western regards, the 360 still has a gigantic lead over the PS3, due to US sales being 3 or 4 times those of the PS3 (and even, atm, UK sales). How long, if ever, will it be before the PS3 overtakes the 360 in Europe and the US combined, counting out Japan as a factor (even though it is a "small" one for the purpose of this discussion). "

    I try not to post in these retarded threads but its amazing the nonsense that some folk spout as fact; the PS3 has outsold 360 in all regions for months now, but by pretty low amounts. This is most likely to 360 saturation of the core market, it can't cross over to mainstream because of Wii sales; and because the PS3 is selling as an HD media player. The Japanese figures are massively irrelevant as BOTH formats are failing over there.

  • Stoatboy #179 4 years ago

    I love these comparison pieces. The articles themselves are OK, I guess, but for a mean-spirited bastard, the comments threads are absolute gold. The sheer anguish about things that are absolutely completely and utterly irrelevant and meaningless is a gift for your average unbiased curmudgeon.

    Keep it up, EG. It makes my day. Actually if you could be a bit more partisan one way or t'other to give fanboys an angle each time that might make it more entertaining, and focus their attentions. :)

  • jmctavish #180 4 years ago

    Condemned 2 is fucking shit. Can't believe Eg is still wanking over it. One of the most infuriating games I've played. All of the wanky effects can't hide the fact that it's a complete dog to play.

    Oh, and these articles are bullshit. Lossless Hdmi, Rgb, scaling polygons etc. Who gives a fuck?

  • anonim1979 #181 4 years ago

    Proper link for Asgard PICTURES:

    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...

  • anonim1979 #182 4 years ago

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Proper link for Viking: Battle for Asgard - Comparison Gallery Gallery:


    Viking Battle for Asgard


    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/08 @ 04:06

  • seasidebaz #183 4 years ago

    @calgon: multithreading is that easy. when i make a game, it uses a threading model. that way, the os gets to sort out what threads get cpu time and at what point they are allowed to run. the hardest part is making sure the threads don't block permanently.

    i read the xna slides. i seriously don't think that any "cleverer" programming will unlock any more potential for the 360, as it uses directx, and due to the object model there is no way to actually "speed it up", and due to threading the rendering thread (should) always be running on a core to itself. the onus is on the artists to start making things look nicer now. there are so many things you can potentially do with shaders that nobody has done yet.

  • myke6699 #184 4 years ago

    another batch of games no one plays. after round two i stop reading the articles: as to the accompanying photo- the only discernible differnce s that the contrast is jacked up on the xbox version and lighting sucks on the xbox. overall, i stll think xbox 360 is just a notch above wii. i'm glad mine was stolen and now i have a PS3 in its place.

  • Xerx3s #185 4 years ago

    "I have one and I admit to disliking microsoft enough to never get a 360 (have you used their operating systems? Blimey)."

    A) Fair enough, it's childish but at least you admit it.
    B) So what OS would YOU recommend.

    /sets up a chair as this could get funny

  • Dizzy #186 4 years ago

    "B) So what OS would YOU recommend. "

    Don't start this. The thread is already bad enough.

  • muscleblade #187 4 years ago

    Its funny how PS3 owners state that Eurogamers editors are paid by MS or lying or using the wrong setup.

    It really is a known fact that the PS3 is inferior when it comes to the games. The best 360 games arent even availaible on the PS3.

    Im pretty sure the PS3 owners know this but they just wont admit they bought an inferior gaming machine. Remember that you bought a very good ( but very ugly looking ) blueray player.

  • Yaz #188 4 years ago

    seasidebaz wrote: "i seriously don't think that any "cleverer" programming will unlock any more potential for the 360"

    Really? So are you saying that developers have already reached the 360's maximum potential? Because that's rather naive if you believe that's the case right now. :|

    Whether the 360 or PS3 has more potential than the other is open for debate, but what isn't questionable is that neither console has reached it's full potential, therefore there is much to be unlocked for BOTH consoles.
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/08 @ 08:19

  • Big-Swiss #189 4 years ago

    muscleblade I've spottet you, you goddam stupid fucking moron! You always write your posts negativ torwards fanboys, and every fucking post you write has 360 Fanboy all over it. I hate guys like you, immature idiots, allways afraid that your product could get the shorter end at the end, because your fucking broke and poor and can't afford some decent stuff.
    Your like a VW driver, constantly dissing the neighbours BMW, how bad it is.

    hahahahaha

    oh yeah, know I go in a simular direction, I diss 360 fanboys and I defend the PS3 from time to time, but I stand for it, and someone needs to bring some objectivity to this place! I don't try to hide my way of thinking, and I am much fairer regarding the 360 then you piss poor lot. Plus regarding the face offs, I don't give a flying fuck, i'm just here for morons like muscleblade!
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/08 @ 08:20

  • muscleblade #190 4 years ago

    @Big Swiss

    I own a Audi Allroad 2006 model. Im not broke, and i always buy the best stuff imo. I understand your anger i really do.

    I dont have anything against PS3 owners im not that stupid, i just really feel they should stop whining about objective articles like this and look at the facts. I really hope MGS4 will be great. PS3 owners deserve that after all the delays and crap Sony has given them.

  • FladgeMangle #191 4 years ago

    @ Xerx3s

    Maybe childish, certainly simplistic. A fuller reason to me not liking Microsoft would take longer and have less relevance to this thread. Things like agressive monopoly, hiked-up prices on mandatory software, using funds from said monopoly to prop-up failed hardware in a way that would make Sega weep verdant tears (the original xbox lost microsoft billions of dollars, any other company would be pushing daisies by now), stunning quotes like "we are going to destroy Google" from their CEO indicating their "what we can't own we must annihilate" attitude to business, etc.etc.

    Your second question is also childish. Of course there isn't another PC OS, because, well, agressive monopoly....

    Doesn't stop windows being a tawdry mess.

  • muscleblade #192 4 years ago

    "Really? So are you saying that developers have already reached the 360's maximum potential? Because that's rather naive if you believe that's the case right now. :|
    "

    Im 100% certain Gears of war 2 will prove him wrong.

  • Big-Swiss #193 4 years ago

    muscleblade, nice reply, really, very diffrent kind of style then the posts I criticized.
    I just feel, as If I still here the same things as a year ago, but it isn't the same as a year ago, and Sony has delivered some good things during that year, and yes, they have promised some things and couldn't deliver, but regarding our PS3 now, with all the updates and games and features, it is cool. I just don't think that peeps who own a 360 and a PS3 but only buy the exclusive titles for the PS3 can't really judge objective, and I'm sick of those comments. And I'm even more sick of peeps who don't even own the PS3. I still believe, that lot of guys are so afraid, the PS3 could become hype and their 360 would lose the holyness, so they bash and diss, bash and diss, bash and diss, no matter what, and that moronic stuff gives me the biggest anger, plus today is a anger day for me..........

  • Yaz #194 4 years ago

    muscleblade wrote: "Im 100% certain Gears of war 2 will prove him wrong."

    Well, I would start off first by saying I don't agree with your PS3 views... but with that out of the way, Gears of War is a good point. :)

    From the time Gears of War was released on the 360 in 2006, certain gamers have been *insisting* it represents the 360's maximum potential, claiming 360 games will not get any better. Even up to recently I've been reading the same nonsense from gamers, and yet just a few months ago, Epic demonstrated some of the big improvements they've made to the game engine on the 360 since then. Most noticeably was the hundred or so characters on screen at once, a huge improvement over the first game, and something that would have been impossible if Gears maxed out the 360. And these improvements are certainly not the result of artists doing some nice things with shaders, it's about optimizing the engine on the console as well as making greater use of the hardware features, a process which continues throughout a console's lifespan.

    Therefore gamers and armchair experts are in no position to say that a console's full potential has been reached, or even say how *much* potential there is to come. All we can say is that developers always find ways to get more out the hardware, and therefore we gamers have no choice but to wait and see the results. :)

  • Xerx3s #195 4 years ago

    "Don't start this. The thread is already bad enough."

    A[link url=http://www....]http://www....[/link] I thought it would be entertaining. You guys never let me do anything. ;_;

  • Xerx3s #196 4 years ago

    muscleblade: That's a stupid comment.

  • Xerx3s #197 4 years ago

    FladgeMangle: That's a rather hypocritical view of the world. Yes, ms are evil uber conglomerates that strive for monopoly positions. Just like every other company (that includes apple, nintendo and sony), I can refresh your memory of what others did but you can google on that for yourself. It's just that ms is a bit better at it than the rest.
    MS, just like any other mega cooperation has it's good and bad sides. Boycotting MS but then supporting sony or nintendo without thinking about it makes one a hypocrite or foolish.

    In the end there is no such thing as good or bad, just those that are willing to swim in shark waters to make money and those that stand at the sideline saying how unfair it all is.

  • muscleblade #198 4 years ago

    @ Xerx3s

    "That's a stupid comment. "

    What comment? The Gears 2 comment or what? Why is it stupid?
    Edited by 2 at 25/04/08 @ 10:59

  • Kryon #199 4 years ago

    Honestly, who cares, proper gamers should own both systems, they're both good in their own way. The Wii on the other hand is a ladyboys console and I feel ashamed that I ever owned one.

  • FladgeMangle #200 4 years ago

    My opinion of MS is based on their approach to business, particularly this console industry. Whereas Sony and Nintendo made their names in an open and competitive marketplace, MS essentially bought their way in using funds extorted from decades of monopolising the PC OS market.

    Is is for that reason I choose not to buy a 360. It doesn't make me a hypocrite or a fool.

    "In the end there is no such thing as good or bad, just those that are willing to swim in shark waters to make money and those that stand at the sideline saying how unfair it all is. "

    That's bollocks.

  • muscleblade #201 4 years ago

    Honestly, who cares, proper gamers should own both systems

    The PS3 has Uncharted and Ratchet & Clank ( good games )
    The Wii has Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros ( fantastic games )

    Easy choice imo.

    I also think the Wii complement the 360 as a gaming machine much better than the PS3. The best PS3 games imo can also be bought on the 360 in better versions. The PS3 is the best gaming machine with a blueray player though.
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/08 @ 13:53

  • muscleblade #202 4 years ago

    @FladgeMangle

    Your political motives is very hounorable. Too bad that the only one that loose if you dont buy a 360 is yourself.

  • GamesConnoisseur #203 4 years ago

    Sure each console is worth owning, not going to add anything to what I said earlier and previously but noted with interest that the comments have changed compared to last year and before PS3 got released.

    By now after 11 0 (certainly not as bad as the scoreline gives!), perception of PS3 now more balanced and less 'oversold' being totally bought as literal truth. Sure there are exceptions but more PS3 only owners acknowledge that its not vastly more powerful or having better games but still content to have console of their choice.

    Reasons such as simply disliking MS, noises, no BD home theatre etc, are more grounded reasons and the same for X360 owners who feel no need to get PS3 (at this time) as sufficently satisifed with X360, better online intergration etc. I suspect that the 11 head to head articles have contributed to the better acceptance of where each console actually stands in relative to each other.

    Hey, like someone said people arent that bothered about power, if they are buying Wii in droves! Oh hey that remind me must go and pick up Wii Fit from shop!

  • Xerx3s #204 4 years ago

    FladgeMangle: So neither nintendo nor sony have been in the monopoly position in the past and misused it then? oh dear. As for using funds acquired from other products to buy your way into the market...

    "Is is for that reason I choose not to buy a 360. It doesn't make me a hypocrite or a fool. "

    Yes it does.

    "That's bollocks."

    If you want to believe that, fair enough. I believe in fair business and try to avoid being and arsehole but in the end of the day I have to make money and playing nice sometimes gets in the way of that. I wont hesitate to step on others to achieve our targets. It is not nice, I try to avoid it, but that's the way it is. I know of other companies who couldn't do that, they are out of business now. We did more than 200% our expected target last year.
    All business comes down to one single thing, money. How to earn lots of it. All try to wear the mask of friendliness but at the end of the day, that's just etiquette that weighs less than potential income.

    Besides, monopolies aren't nessisarily all evil. The windows standard has also made sure that for a lot of things, there is one universal way of doing things. I would hate to go back to the pre windows times, even the most basic things such as installing a printer could be hell.
    Everything has it's ups and it's downs and everybody is playing the same game, some just play it better than others.
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/08 @ 13:20

  • FladgeMangle #205 4 years ago

    @ muscleblade

    I tend to be fairly particular about the games I play. Fortunately for me it's things like Oblivion, Dynasty Warriors, Ridge Racer, Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy. I'm also rather fond of 3rd person platformers like Ratchet and Clank and the Lego games.

    The apparently poor conversion of Viking and the lack of Bioshock, yeah I suppose I lose out in those cases. I'll survive :o)

  • Kryon #206 4 years ago

    muscleblade can't afford a PS3 :'(

    No, seriously, with games like Uncharted, Lost odyssey, MGS4, Gears 2, etc, I feel anyone truly into their games would have at least some interest in both systems. I used to think the PS3 was pretty pathetic at one point, but that was when it really did seem to lag behind the 360. Admittedly most multi-platform titles are still visually better on the 360 but then certain exclusives like Uncharted are as good as the best the 360 has to offer imo and GT5P (while not being the best actual game ever) is visually the best thing I've ever seen on any home console ever... Also my dislike for the Wii is not out of a fanboy hatred of Ninty, I did buy one but it just wasn't for me so I sold it on. Anyway dude, carry on with the 360, if you're happy with what you have then there's no problem, you seem a little defensive though...

  • FladgeMangle #207 4 years ago

    @ xerx3s

    Stop trying to insult me. I have an opinion about MS that isn't the same as yours. Let it go.

    I never said MS were evil, I said I didn't like them. Likewise, I never said Sony or Nintendo were good. Your view that you're either swimming with sharks or a sideline whinger is derivative of George W Bush and his "you're either with us or the terrorists" speech.

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes. What colour is your lightsaber?

  • muscleblade #208 4 years ago

    @FladgeMangle

    I think you would have loved Mass effect and Lost Odysse too. And Oblivion was a bit old when it arrived on the PS3 imo. I finished it a year before you. Lets hope MGS4 will be really good. I personally prefer NInja Gaiden 2 and would probably borrowed my nabours PS3 if it was exclusive to Sonys machine. thankfully for me its 360 exclusive.

  • muscleblade #209 4 years ago

    Kryon wrote:"muscleblade can't afford a PS3 :'( "

    Still i own two 360s. I actually traded in my PS3 for a 360 elite when i was finished with Ninja gaiden Sigma. Believe it or not.

    I still know you were kidding though. I have a Wii too btw and a DS.

    Defensive? Not at all. Im just stating my opinion and im actually trying to be objective.
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/08 @ 13:49

  • FladgeMangle #210 4 years ago

    I can't even afford a Wii at the moment.

    Children are expensive little buggers, both monitarily and in free time :o)

    Plus we need a new carpet and the garden needs doing... I wish I was good at cut-throat business so I could afford everything.

    A Joke. A JOKE. Don't go there Xerx3s, please :o)

  • muscleblade #211 4 years ago

    I have 3 games for my Wii, 2 games for my DS and about 50 games for my 360. If i had kept my PS3 i would have had 2 games for it probably.

    I might have to buy a new Blueray player sometime this year though.
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/08 @ 13:59

  • #212 4 years ago

    The fückers at EG make these kind of articles because they know they generate hits (money).

    Back to playing MGO Beta.

  • #213 4 years ago

    @muscleblade

    You're the most retarded fanboy ever.

  • Trigga_Tybalt #214 4 years ago

    everytime i come back here i realize why kotaku is so great.

  • Calgon #215 4 years ago

    seasidebaz you arent reading my posts properly and assuming you know better when you clearly dont, which slides are you on about? There's audio of the presentations themselves.

    seriously don't think that any "cleverer" programming will unlock any more potential for the 360, as it uses directx

    What clever programming?(I find that whole sentence strange, if you mean optimisations then that would destroy your hopes of PS3s untapped potential) I gave examples of the areas this potential lies and its all true from the former members of the Xbox Advanced Technology Group(all part of XNA now) who keep close tabs on all 360 developements... That just shows you are unqualified to be discussing 360 developement with me come back when youve actually learned about the hardware, like I have. Ive also displayed I have knowlege of PS3s hardware too... you are a software developer I see... we are talking about different things and Im sorry but I'll take the XNA members research over your opinions on multi-core programming anyday.

    The 360s API is virtually none existant, the comment you made just baffles me... you're telling me you're an experienced games programmer and you come out with a statement like that? "its direct-x so theres no untapped potential"? These are consoles my friend, custom hardware too and there really IS plenty left in store for 360... I'll say it again, it could well be that 360 has more potential and PS3.

    Again I suggest we agree to disagree because Ive done this 10 times over.

    Im guessing you didnt check them presentations out at all and wouldnt want to listen anyway which is fair enough(see the line above), for anyone else interested though heres the link:

    [link url=http://w ww.xnagamefest.com/presentations.htm
    ]http://ww w.xnagamefest.com/presentations...[/link]

    This years event will be in July.

  • Yaz #216 4 years ago

    Calgon wrote: "for anyone else interested though heres the link: http://ww w.xnagamefest.com/presentations...

    Excellent. Thanks very much. :)

  • muscleblade #217 4 years ago

    @Hansi320

    No need to be so rude.

    Im not a fanboy. I was a nintendo fanboy when i was younger. Nes was better than the Master system and Supernintendo was better than Megadrive no question about it. I owned them all so i could tell.


  • FladgeMangle #218 4 years ago

    Muscleblade is SO not a fanboy, only a fanboy would think we was.

    More strength to the gaming hardcore I say. Of course, I'm a childish hipocritical fool so what do I know.

    BTW came home from work today and my two kids were playing Lego Star Wars and laughing like drains. PS3 version too, what madness!

  • Calgon #219 4 years ago

    My opinion of MS is based on their approach to business, particularly this console industry. Whereas Sony and Nintendo made their names in an open and competitive marketplace, MS essentially bought their way in using funds extorted from decades of monopolising the PC OS market.

    FladgeMangle do your reaserch on Sony(dont try and pair them with Nintendo... they are another multinational mega-corporation even less deserving of your trust if you go by recent years and why is it ok for Sony to buy people out like devs, movie studios ect?) or open your fricken eyes then... they bought their way in too(muscling Sega out in the process) crossing another partner theyd been working with and succeeding not with talent or vision for games but with their sheer marketing, highstreet presence and budgets nobody else could match. As far as the Console/Games industry goes MS is more at home there IMO and have actually been far more upfront with gamers too, actually thinking what they can do for the industry rather what they can get from the industry once in a while....

    Anti-MS fools are the most niave around especially those who favour Sony.

    Im not even pretending MS are all innocent we know the story with the OS monopoly but that wasnt beyond any other companies around at that time either, if theres no laws against it and they can gain success from it then businesses dont usually think twice, even when there are laws some try and get around it(*cough*Sony's taxes*cough*). We certainly dont want Sony controlling the market, or anyone else for that matter its good that Sony finally met a company that was more than a match for them financially, its also good that people have woken up to how Sony have shown little respect to the competition and their consumers in recent years(not all of us but its an improvement... I could bring developers into it because it has to be said in the past Sony have shown arrogance and little respect here because of their position... or maybe they just dont understand their needs being more of a hardware manufacturer... but you get the point).

    Competition is good, the consumer is going to have it good this gen because Sony's dominance is over and competition is healthier than ever. Now with that in mind lets not pretend theres any good or bad side here they all want our money, whos offering the most for you is what matters.

    I will say out of principle I wont buy a PS3 now even if I could afford 3 consoles(or had the time) because Sony are the most dishonest player in the industry and on a less important note some of the fans are just cringeworthy, blindly devoted to a corporation they think is "the coolest", attacking others for simply prefering another console... it would almost feel like giving in lol.

  • Calgon #220 4 years ago

    / Considers deleting that last post but decides not to... screw the anti-ms trolls and "Sonybots" if you prefer 360 then let them cry about the RROD and Evil MS/monopoly all they like, its just having the opposite effect to what they intended obviously, bringing shame to the PS3's name out of their desperation. :D
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/08 @ 22:28

  • SeesThroughAll #221 4 years ago

    Yet another "face-off", yet another sad comments thread...

    Thanks for the laugh, though, Calgon.

  • muscleblade #222 4 years ago

    @Shaka

    I know you never played those games on the 360 cause you are very much mistaken. Dont worry though you still have a very good Blue Ray player and the games you are mentioning are pretty good on the PS3 if you dont mind the lack of a good online mode and achievements.

    I definently think all hardcore gamers should own a 360 even if they already bought PS3. Trust me you will not be playing the PS3 much after you got the 360. Trust me ive had them both and im seriously not a fanboy. I dont prefer MS over Sony as a company at all either. Quite the opposite actually.

  • warbo #223 4 years ago

    Shaka wrote:

    cod4,Oblivion,dmc4,Burnout,graw 2,
    all multi paths,
    all AAA.
    all best on the superior console PS3.

    FYI:
    CoD4 has much higher resolution textures and a slightly more consistent framerate on 360.
    http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/searchdia ry?of=23&word=%2a%5bGame%20Compare%5d

    DMC4 has better image quality on 360, with 2xMSAA versus weird frame blend temporal AA blur on PS3.

    GRAW2 has 2xMSAA on 360 plus a slightly more consistent framerate. No AA on PS3.

    Burnout Paradise is 720p with 2xMSAA on both systems. PS3 has a slight edge in other areas.

    Oblivion was released a year later on PS3.
    Edited by 4 at 26/04/08 @ 18:59

  • seasidebaz #224 4 years ago

    ok this is shit now,

    the 360 is great. the ps3 is great. this has once again degenerated into a thread where the 360 fanbots start going on about stuff that doesn't matter. 2xmsaa? if i can find someone who can tell the difference with the naked eye between 2xmsaa and "wierd temporal blur" then i would gladly give them a medal.

    as a hardcore gamer of 21 years, i can say i have had more fun with my ps3. i have had fun with the 360, don't get me wrong, but i get more fun from my ps3.

    these fanbot arguments are getting stupid now.

    and @calgon: i don't know the hardware inside out as i am a developer of applications, not games, and so do not have access to a devkit. i do know, however, that no matter how many times you create a vertex buffer in directx and render it to screen, it does not speed up. it never will. directx is a known quantity in terms of performance, and unless you know something i don't about making directx perform faster, i suggest you learn directx. otherwise, please tell me. i'm working on a game and would love for it to run faster :)

  • Calgon #225 4 years ago

    seasidebaz its ok these debates often get heated and it's not really worth it, I was trying to explain to you the difference is 360s API very thin in the first place... so its not comparable to directX(by the way by known quantity I hope you dont mean runs the same on every GPU no matter how efficient your code is... as a PC gamer you should know thats not true)... I should have just said it isnt directX to be clearer. You basically get close enough to the metal already(I think it was carmack who expressed how he was impressed with it), ontop of that I also tried to point out console developement is alot different to what you are thinking of, just check that link I posted its really quite interesting and dont forget Xenos is a custom GPU, its shaders are new and devs can optimise for them further(basically making better use of all the transistors available at all times... this is what the unified shader architecture is all about and there IS room for improvement in 360 development), there will be better ways to implement the E-dram(like the new examples they gave in the presentation) and make better use of the texturing units(another advantage Xenos has) and all the other 360 specific features that have yet to be fully exploited(already explained about the CPU, VMX and multi-core are just two well known examples).

    Anyway some of it is cleaverer programing yes and that does get results(so lets not be silly and pretend efficienct code/shortcuts/optimisations are meaningless), but the things I was talking about go far beyond that, its true untapped potential. Whether you acknowlege it or not, 360 has it in both chips unlike the PS3. In the end Im not sure there will be much in it but it would be nice if 360 got the one up over PS3 IMO because much prefer its design, also I just think people get a bit carried away with the CELL hyperbole too.

    Now let us call it quits, enjoy your PS3 by all means I just cant stand fanbots as you put it spreading misinformation.

    /no more replies on this thread now
    Edited by 2 at 27/04/08 @ 00:27

  • warbo #226 4 years ago

    seasidebaz: "if i can find someone who can tell the difference with the naked eye between 2xmsaa and "wierd temporal blur" then i would gladly give them a medal."

    There's a difference, though it isn't hugely significant.

    2xMSAA
    "Weird temporal blur"


    Edited by 3 at 27/04/08 @ 01:38

  • myke6699 #227 4 years ago

    as long as the only game i play GT5P is 100 times better than that cartoon racing game that 360 has (forza): even in its still evolving state, the gameplay, the physics (whereas forza only plays with the inferior toy like cheaply made, MS wheel), in GT5P, logitech steering wheel, in my case the G25, in the professional mode, you can swear that it's the real thing. and oh did i mention the graphics, beside the much ballyhooed 1080p 60fps, which is fine by me but add to that dynamic lighting that make PGR4 looks like a piece of crap and while 360 games masked its inferior graphics with tons of AA, GT5P proves that only la little of that is necessary in order to achieve what some considered better (in term of graphics) than the benchmark, Crysis. GT5P, has photorealism, in spades. all the other irrelevant, underachieved games, you with the 360s, can have'em. we, the PS3 owners are quite contend with GT5P and GTA IV (being better, graphic wise). peace.
    Edited by 1 at 27/04/08 @ 11:38

  • Yaz #228 4 years ago

    myke6699, that post of yours was nothing more than a childish rant. Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself more than anything else. :|

  • muscleblade #229 4 years ago

    @Yaz

    Agreed

  • thinred #230 4 years ago

    @ Yaz:

    He's dead right, though. And Eurogamer is so unashamedly biased against PS3, I stopped reading pretty much anything PS3-related on this website long ago.
    Edited by 1 at 27/04/08 @ 17:42

  • Yaz #231 4 years ago

    @thinred

    "He's dead right, though."

    I disagree. But I'm not surprised you agree given the following comment...

    "And Eurogamer is so unashamedly biased against PS3, I stopped reading pretty much anything PS3-related on this website long ago."

    Oh sure. They've annoyed you so much with their bias that you no longer visit this site anymore. Oh wait. ;)

    The fact is, gamers like yourself ALWAYS cry "BIAS" whenever a website or magazine doesn't say what you want to read about your favourite console. This is especially true for reviews, where gamers get angry if the score isn't as high as they'd like for a game on their chosen console and not as low for a game on another console. Hence there isn't a gaming website or magazine I know that doesn't have groups of gamers (usually fanboys) calling them biased!

  • BBIAJ #232 4 years ago

    Rich, you forgot to mention the lack of any lip-sync in the PStriple version of Viking: Battle For Asgard, if the GameTrailers video review is to be believed.

  • muscleblade #233 4 years ago

    @thinred

    Eurogamer must have reason right.

    Plz dont say that their paid by MS thats just total crap.

  • muscleblade #234 4 years ago

    The funny thing is: Everybody thouth that the PS3 was going to be the strongest and best console this generation with the best graphics atleast including myself. It came out a year after the 360 so it would have made sense that it would be better.
    People now know that this was not the case. I remember buying my PS3 with resistance and motorstorm right after playing gears of war. The difference was huge in the opposite way that i would have imagined a year before. The 360 isnt alot better than the PS3 when it comes to crossplatform games. But shouldnt it be much better? Its still the most expensive console hands down. The best console not at all.
    Edited by 1 at 28/04/08 @ 13:27

  • Xerx3s #235 4 years ago

    myke6699: I feel sorry for you.

  • juuken #236 4 years ago

    Wow, I feel very, very sorry for delusional xteers...I really do.
    Never underestimate Sony...that's all I have to say right now.

  • Sevens #237 4 years ago

    Viking is a 5/10, at best. Bland, repetitive, boring and lacking personality. Characters are as shallow as possible, the story is almost non existant and the environments just look alike. Combat is so boring, it's hard to believe. It is slow and while there are a couple of moves that combos can be build of it is entirely... boring to do. And it really gets tedious when the same (slow motion, oh dear) finshers appear over and over again. NPCs and opponents all look the same. Granted, some do wear a different hat. Which may just be the best Viking has to offer. Different hats. Well, maybe there even aren't different hats. But is has characters who don't move their lips when speaking in cutscenes. Admittedly, that may be better than having them not speak at all. Which is what the main character does. Probably lost his voice when he got 'compressed'. Something with his size went wrong, he is as tall as he is broad.
    Edited by 1 at 02/05/08 @ 19:13