Xbox 360 vs PS3 Face-Off: Round 14 Comments by Richard Leadbetter

I love watching EG squrim and evade when the 360 comes off worse...hilarious :)

Hm, it actually seems like there is less care value as time goes along in these threads! This is well under the usual postage count.
Unless the usuals are too busy off playing LBP at the moment!

Like many other: yes, I can spot some differences between the versions on screen shots on my computer screen. I cannot tell the PS3 version from the 360 version apart when the game is actually running unless I'm actively looking for differences instead of actually playing the game.

Multi-platform games will probably never be superior on the PS3. Why? Because graphic performance is about the same on both consoles, the 360 has slightly more advanced pixel shader hardware and much better anti-alias HW. The 360 has 512Mb of memory that is shared between the CPU and GFX, PS3 has 256Mb for the CPU and 256Mb for the GFX. The 256/256 split is not the very balanced, the GFX should have been given more memory than the CPU. The benefit of having memory split between the CPU and the GFX card is that they have their own bus to the memory while the CPU/GFX has to share the memory bus on the 360. the benefit of shared memory is that different games has a different graphic to code/sound/etc ratio and the PS3 forces a 50/50 split. The PS3 has much higher general floating point throughput.

If the game utilizes the 360 graphic card to it full extent, how can one make the game run on the PS3? Just decrease the resolution, texture resolution and/or drop/simply the pixershader. Still the same game.

If the game utilizes the PS3 general floating performance for advanced physics simulation, how can one make the game run on the 360? This is probably a much harder problem to solve. The whole game feeling might be defined by the advanced physics, changing that would create a different game,

End result: only PS3 exclusive games can use the SPE:s to their full extent.

BTW: I have both consoles, but tend to go the PS3 versions since I like that controller more and the PS3 is quieter.

I think its been long enough that the "PS3 has massive untapped power" myth can now be dismissed. It's apparent that developers have to work hard to get the PS3 to perform to the same standard as the X360.

Sony seem to have ignored the voice of game developers when designing the architecture of the PS3. The extra effort required in developing for the PS3 means extra expense for the developer. If this was the first console from Sony entering a market dominated only by Microsoft and Nintendo it simple would not gain market share - developers would not touch it. Many of the developers I work with or speak to simple do not like to use the PS3 as the lead platform because of the extra trouble and time it takes to match what they are able to do on the X360.

Using the X360 as the lead platform often means developers can bring a product to point where it can be demoed to potential publishers much quicker than if they had chosen the PS3 as the lead platform.

Next time you think "Lazy Developers", maybe you should instead think "Shortsighted Sony".

Next generation doesn't start until Sony says so. We welcome our true FullHD overlords.

Many of the developers I work with or speak to simple do not like to use the PS3 as the lead platform because of the extra trouble and time it takes to match what they are able to do on the X360.

we'll call them

Lazy Developers

aight?

LULZ at the SDF. Just so you know, I'm taking great pleasure in drinking the sweet milky nectar of your tears.

This is you :'(

This is me :p

@Confounder: How much did your PC cost?

A Xbox 360 is 200 to 300 EUR... is Bioshock really 10x better on the PC? I think not.

A friend of mine just asked what should he get a PS3 or a 360 and I pointed him to these article to help him and he made his mind up and got a 360!!

Thanks Eurogamer, keep up the good work!

damn, whats up with the 4 or 5 xbots trolling every thread to scream over the noise of their boxes "tEH bochs is teh greatest"?

/boots quest for booty

@noface

Are you admitting to being SDF? You see, I'm also happy with my PS3 (and 360). I just like watching hedbog and a few others who really can't seem to handle the fact that the 360 is winning these silly articles :D

I bought SCIV on the PS3 simply because I wanted to play as Vader on release day, that in itself proves I really don't care which version is minisculy better. I gave up being a 360 fanboy ages ago, it just got so easy that it no longer presented a challenge :(

no. since i am more into sonys exclusives there never was a choice for me. plus: i share over 20 games with friends who just give them to me as presents, so...thats almost the price of a xbox, there really is no question which console is the better one for me ;)

@captain-future
MY PC can play games, browse the web, develop new games, application, etc.. word process, graphics process, build spreadsheets, be used to shop, to manage my finances, arrange y holidays (flights, car rental, etc), chat with (non-gaming) friends, play DVD's, Blu-Ray, music CD, watch analogue, digital (both standard definition and HD) TV - including pausing live TV, rewinding TV and a TV guide, it can record programs, download movies, convert movies to DVD/Blu-Ray format, listen to the radio, and so on and so forth and suchlike...

It cost me £600 three years ago, I have it plugeed into my TV and run all my games (which tend to cost half the price of their console counterparts) all at true 1080p resolution (none of this upscaling crap), I use a wireless XBox360 controller for console style games, wireless mouse and keyboard for PC style games (& FPS, RTS games)...

So yeah, bioshock is a better experience on the PC - if you really want to tlook at it that way.

and run all my games...

:D

woah. i think about what would happen if it runs MY games...

@IronCladChicken

How much did all the upgrades/Blu-Ray, etc, since your initial purchase come to? What spec is your rig, if you don't mind me asking?

"no. since i am more into sonys exclusives there never was a choice for me."

more fool you. give them a go, you might even like them.

open minded multi-console owning is the best way.

foxhound is right about that.

Also, both have great exclusives, well worth owning and all this fighting over it is pointless.

@evilfoxhound,

Not quite. It seems if it was designed on the 360 first, then the PS3 is inferior to a greater or lesser extent. If primarily developed on the PS3, then the 360 conversion matches it.

Oh fucking hell, another one?

Pathetic.

evilfoxhound

No the best way is to have two teams... that way the 360 and PC versions can be done without the PS3 holding things up for no benifit to the devs.

COD4 and didnt GTAIV actually have two teams running in paralel from the begining also?

Its a bit of a cheek for Sony and their fanboys to expect the rest of the industry to make decisions that really only benifit Sony and their fans... both 360 and PC would be much better off as it is with 360 as lead, let the devs choose how they work best and stop being selfish just because Sony made some bad decisions on their platform yet again... theres no doubt about it, thats what it boils down to.

No I feel with 360 as lead the better it is for the gameplay which has slipped in dev priorities, this gen really needs things to balance things out again in that regard and that will happen much sooner with 360 as the lead platform.

As far as the Gflops advantage(Id never use the term "general" for any of the PS3s advantages, thats its failing compared to 360 and thats what devs find usefull, its hard using more specialised hardware for tasks it wasnt really designed for) ... its on paper only so far and I really think the difference will fall far short of what it looks like between Cell and X360CPU, its never looked like a physics powerhouse even at this point with basically all available SPEs in use in some upcoming games.

I have to say these articles are atleast the fairest and most thorough of their type around you have to atleast give Eurogamer that. I also find this kind of information interesting, but then I like my technology and graphics too so thats a given, then again even I sometimes wonder if its more trouble than its worth with the reactions the PS3 fans have to them(you can bet theyd see nothing wrong with them if PS3 was winning them though).

Maybe EG could have a brand new section on the site for those that want it "Platform Comparisons"? "System Wars"? "Fanboys Corner"? Atleast then maybe they could just be on the front page for a short time when a new article is added and not at all for those who only have one system(who probably bookmarked the PS3 page and go straight there anyway).

I don't understand the Kung Fu Panda hate. Did you guys play the demo? It's a decent action-adventure-platform-brawler-thingy that looks beautiful and runs smoothly and there aren't many of those in this hardware generation so I might as well buy it when it's cheaper.

I will not buy the more 'important' Soul Calibur 4 though, because it has zero innovation, unbalanced gameplay and character design has gotten progressively uglier with each new iteration in the series. The characters in part 4 look even more ridiculous than Dead or Alive and I am not even talking about the tits. I see nothing in this that the developers should be commended for except online play perhaps.

I learned this lesson the hard way last summer with the Clancy/Ubisoft games for the PS3. They were so badly ported that I just went out and got a 360, so these articles would've saved me some money in the first place.

When you look at games like Wipeout HD, Uncharted and MGS4 (the motorcycle cut scene/gameplay bit especially) its pretty clear that the PS3 can match up to 360 in terms of graphics.

So why can't the third party's match the two versions of their games like for like? When you consider the good work Criterion managed to pull off with Burnout Paradise and compare that with Codemasters and Grid, for example, It has to be laziness.

Unless the PS3 is used as the lead platform I'll be getting all third party games for the 360 and just use the PS3 for its exclusives.

@Pasco

Yup, I totally agree, Kun Fu Panda pisses on SCIV.

/Tries very hard to keep a straight face...

/Fails

/LOLASAURUS REX!

Ive repeated this quite alot but what the heck; its interesting now with all SPEs in use, CELL hasnt shown an advantage in physics yet(AI I never beleived it would 360 is much better suited for that, its still undecided which will perform better among the devs as far as I know but I think 360s arguements hold more weight). Sure there will be optimisations, perhaps more SPEs allocated for physics but then there will be a noticable drop elsewhere compared to the other top PS3 titles and whos to say 360 couldn't do the same (sacrificing other aspects of CPUs workload) to acheive the same.

360s VMX128(Custom? Yep Id bet they are specifically for gaming too, since its said that even between IBMs other PPC chips no two have had the same version of VMX ) units are something MS has only just started emphasising in their dev conferences(Well last year was the first theyd talked on them publicly with the devs in any information that Ive found anyway...) they will be very usefull for Physics(could even out any floating point differences perhaps, hasnt been any game released on PS3 where they actually need to yet though but we'll see), animation and maybe some AI when devs get to grips with them(expect it wont be for multiplatform releases but big 360 only releases as porting may become alot more difficult... same principles as the CELLs SPEs funnily enough. Rares games might be the ones to watch since their style isnt as suited for PC to begin with so theres more chance of theirs being 360 only, plus they are generally pretty crafty with their engines and tech) you can expect a big improvement according to the research done.

The funny thing is it was Sony and their fanboys too comically enough that pressed the importance of this topic from day one... my how its looking like that backfired big time on them! :D Perhaps they can learn from it, look at Nintendo they kind of proved its not really that important to the casual market aslong as you market it well and have something unique to offer, which in a way they all do its just its worked out better for Nintendo:

Nintendo - Controller
MS - It used to be the Online and still is in some respects but thats getting less apparent as Sony and Nintendo slowly improve on theirs which they are bound to do, so maybe they should stay ahead by improving Live constantly along with making sure their services are unique and or of the highest quality(same with the games Library too).
PS3 - ... Blu-ray.

Well I think it shows the casual consumer isnt fussed with high tech gadgetry, Blu-Ray will take alot longer than DVD to take off IMO (and it still wont be as popular) and although broadband penetration is getting higher all the time, the online aspect hasnt been as attractive so maybe mass market isnt fully online yet... but that could also be tied in with the marketing.

Another flawless victory for the 360, I'm not surprised.

These face-offs are nothing more but a way for Euro(360)gamer to prove that they're 360 fanboys.

I'm sorry but 14-0, that's like a certain footy team winning every match, its probable but unlikely, especially when developers have said time and again that some are identical.

Basically EG are comparing the 360 and PS3 to a MD/Genesis to a SNES (I wonder which one would would win 14-0?), both 16 bit but the SNES is graphically better, although the MD/Genesis has a lot more better games.

These comparisons are bullshit, there is no way one of the consoles can beat the other 14-0, im sorry but this is the most biased shit ever.

I find IGN, Gamefaqs and Gametrailers comparisons to be unbiased/non fanboys, as both consoles get fair comparisons and neither get a 14-0 victory.

Btw I own all 3 current gen systems, I'm just sick of all this biased fanboy nonsense, exclusives FTW.

@Gamer G.

You're mate is an idiot.

Sorry for double post.

You're mate is an idiot for deciding to get a 360 after reading EG's biased comparisons.

SCIV on the PS3 beats the 360 version for the simple fact that its got Darth *fricking* Vader, an extra cutscene with Vader facing off with Starkiller, SW stages that match Vader, Yoda is broken and the PS3 dpad is better for fighting games.

Graphical differences (not noticed any myself) mean shit when you've got those reasons, besides everywhere else said there graphically identical.

This is my last post in these comments, none of us can stop EG from being biased 360 fanboys.

I mainly buy multiplats on 360 due to buying prequels on the xbox or from unbiased non-fanboy comparisons, I read up on which version is better first and I don't have to wait normally a month for EG's bullshit comparisons.

You've got to be taking the piss right? IGN or Gamespot... HA!

The one thing these comparisons arent is biased... Gamespot or IGN dont even bother to the extent that EG go to, to be as accurate as possible... with them its just a guess based of what they think they see... with Eurogamer all you'd need to do to know they are the most reputable comparisons available is READ THE OPENING F*****G PARAGRAPHS for each face off. None of the other comparisons use the equipment EG use to make them so accurate and fair.. theres no arguing with that, Richard even points out anything that could come down to personal taste... like extra motion blur and dithering for example. If anything it stop people bullshitting about which version is best just because they favour one company over the other. Does that automatically mean that the PS3 version isnt any good because the 360 version is slightly better on a technical level? Not at all, it could be that you prefer the PS3 controller for that particular game for example(if you're mad! lol I bet the 360s pad is way better for most games).

The more developers do this, the better, For the 360 and the PS3.

How can it be better for the 360 if PS3 is the lead platform?

It would certainly be better for PS3 as 360 version would more likely be equal to rather than exceed the rendering performance of PS3 that these Eurogamer Face-Offs consistently show is the norm.


These face-offs are nothing more but a way for Euro(360)gamer to prove that they're 360 fanboys.

Darn that data-driven analysis disagreeing with my assumptions and vested interests' opinions. Facts are for fools.


Graphical differences (not noticed any myself) mean shit

Pixel resolution might not be quite so noticeable if you've got a poor display, or are sat far away from a good one; but refresh rate (i.e. the smoothness of movement) should be visible even if output is set to SD, 30fps is very jerky compared to 60fps.

Sadly for some these Eurogamer technical comparisons of what the consoles are actually rendering -- not what their marketing departments spout -- shines a bright light of technical analysis into the dark corners of true real-world capabilities of the systems.

The whole points of these articles is "graphical differences", if you don't like it don't read them; personally as a graphics whore PC owner I find the technical performance differences between these two consoles very interesting, especially when it is contrasted with the corporate PR surrounding each product.

The saying "put a quart into a pint pot" spring to mind. The quart is what the 360 can do, the pint is what the PS3 can do. Leading on 360 means developers are trying to "put a quart into a pint pot", leading on the PS3 means developers are doing the simpler thing of "put a pint into a quart pot"

I see M$ is still sending the cheques.

What a joke this site has become.

"Btw I own all 3 current gen systems, I'm just sick of all this biased fanboy nonsense, exclusives FTW.

@Gamer G.

You're mate is an idiot. "

LOL thats priceless :D, proves a point about alot of fanboys who use the "I own one" excuse when trolling around EG discussions too.

edit: For those too lazy to backtrack Wingzerosys is angry because Gamer Gs mate chose a 360 over a PS3 with Multiplatform comparisons swaying it for them... a perfectly understandable decision to the rational person.

@ Calgon

We all know you're pro-360. Every time anything negative about the PS3 pops up, you jump straight on it, yet I have NEVER heard you say anything positive about the PS3.

We all know you hate the PS3, so how we can we take what you say seriously? A lot of people dont want a 360 regardless of the better mulitplatform games, since the hardware is unreliable, and many of the exclusives can be bought on the PC.

You could also argue that the best PS3

@ Calgon

We all know you're pro-360. Every time anything negative about the PS3 pops up, you jump straight on it, yet I have NEVER heard you say anything positive about the PS3 because you dislike Sony's design decisions.

We all know you hate the PS3, so how we can we take what you say seriously? A lot of people dont want a 360 regardless of the better mulitplatform games, since the hardware is unreliable, and many of the exclusives can be bought on the PC.

You could also argue that the best PS3 games are more technically impressive than their 360 counterparts. Uncharted, GT Proplogue, MGS4 and Killzone 2 next year are amongst the best console games technically ever seen. Only Gears comes close on the 360.

Next time you think "Lazy Developers", maybe you should instead think "Shortsighted Sony".

Well, we all seem to like a sprint around here, that's for sure.

Quick memo: Kill off the 360 next year, it's probably time for the next one, Msoft.

@Calgon.

"Excuse." What excuse? I do own all 3 and hardly find any differences between both versions.

Like I said, there is no way one console (360) can win a flawless victory over the other (PS3), not even the graphically superior SNES or Xbox could win everytime.

If you've read the latest face-off, you'll know that EG expected this to happen in the comments.

What's wrong with IGN and GFaqs comparisons, not biased/fanboys enough?

If idiots like Gamer G's mate listen to euro(360)gamer, hardly anyone would buy a PS3.

The only reason I visit this site is for gaming news/previews (and sometimes the Thread), they've lost all my respect after all this comparisons bullshit and there reviews are going downhill too.

I always look elsewhere for comparisons and I usually compare them myself, none of this biased fanboy nonsense for me thanks, all 3 consoles are great.

I do prefer 360 Vic thats not the point my point is there is alot of trolls even if its true... state "I own a 360" as if that makes what they say any less biased, missleading or trollish.

You could also argue that the best PS3 games are more technically impressive than their 360 counterparts. Uncharted, GT Proplogue, MGS4 and Killzone 2 next year are amongst the best console games technically ever seen. Only Gears comes close on the 360.

Thats not really true from visual perspective at all and its impossible to do a fair comparisons I dont know why people dont think it through just because they dont like what they see here. Some obvious reasons why its not a good way to compare is:

a) We dont get told exactly whats going on onscreen more often than not and devs almost always twist the truth to big up their acheivements(apart from the odd one or two).

b) Different engines, different assets, different dev teams, different budgets, different timescales = What were you thinking? If you think multiplatform is hard to compare fairly then this is a huge leap in the wrong direction... its a far less accurate way.

The PS3 games you mention look nice enough but you are taking the piss with the "only gears on the 360 comes close to these" comment, pure bullshit even some third party games are comparable to some of the games in that list of yours. Personally I think GT5 will be one of the best looking PS3 games when it launches but doing so without necessarily being the most accomplished(although if they manage 1080p at 60fps without tearing or slowdown thats some acheivement in itself but we know the RSX is less able to handle high resolutions at stable framerates than Xenos so will be pulling every trick in the book to make that happen = looks nice but doesnt prove anything... as with GT4). Killzone2 I dont really know, with the amount of money Sony have poured into its developement you'd think it will turn out looking spectacular(and will be refered to as a tech demo by the rival fanboys... a la GOW) but Im not really convinced with that team after the first game they made... they tried to make a tech demo in a way for PS2 but once it came out after all that hype about how good it looks... it was sooo easy to see behind the seems (fogging, poor draw distance... really I dont beleive it was up there with the leading games on PS2 at the time... it had already been exceeded by the time it came out on its technical merits)

wingzerosys fine be in denial then... you purposefully ignored my reasons why IGNs and Gamespots comparisons dont even come close to being as accurate as Eurogamers make an arguement for why you dispute this atleast instead of just saying "because they are biased ****s" Ive pointed out why they really ARE the most accurate out of the major gamesite comparisons offered.

If you'd have made a proper arguement then maybe people wouldnt beleive you are a raving PS3 fanboy; angry because 360 is performing better... it really is as far as multiplatform titles go but are the differences that significant for the majority of them? No EG havent been bashing the PS3 at all like you make out theyve been reporting the facts the pictures and videos provided with these articles are the source of their findings and yes they are far more accurate than Gametrailers...

Be fair youve been running around trying to convince people on gametrailers that the PS3 version has the edge on some of these titles havent you? lol

Snes and Xbox were totally different generations means nothing are you one of those people who cry "Cheater" online when someone gives you a pasting because "theres no way its possible"... the only reason you think that is because you are not ready to accept it.

Its just a poor arguement, you could have said "they only pick the ones 360 wins for the comparisons" but there really hasnt been many that you could give the PS3 the edge in, thats just the way its panned out with PS3 playing catch up... so no there is no bias here, is it all important? No it shouldnt be the single reason to buy a console either but what you did was call someone stupid for preferring the 360 as their choice this could well have just been one of many factors they were weighing up and it really is true the majority of multiplatform titles recently have been pretty much the same on whichever console you buy it for the most part but if youd have to give the technical edge to either version(whether instantly noticable to the average gamer or not) its been the 360s more often than not.

"You're mate is an idiot for deciding to get a 360 after reading EG's biased comparisons"

OMG! You're so f***ing right man! What kind of an utter dickhead would buy a 360 simply because it's the better gaming system and is less than half the price of the other option? What a f***ing c***!!!!

I'd never buy a 360, I mean just coz it's the best option for gamers at the moment and the most fairly priced, so f***ing what? F*** you lot! F*** all your mums to, innit!!!!

If my mate bought a 360 simply because it's a better games system and more reasonably priced, I'd f***ing stab that stupid c*** in the f***ing eye with a rusty hack saw FFS, what a cock end, I'd eat his heart and napalm his family if he even thought about doing that!!! F***ing c*** he is!

@noface
Maybe it already has?!?!?!?

@Kryon
£75 for the Blu-Ray upgrade (where I dun got my blu-ray from)
That is all.

@Calgon.

Mate I wont argue with you, you do seem to know your stuff. I own both consoles and tbh, i find the exclusives on the PS3 to look way better than anything on xb360. I mean even R2 looks better than GOW2. And if the 360 is more capable than the ps3 then why has there been 40man multi player games on it and now thats being raised to 60 with R2 and soon to 256 with Mag. Even Killzone 2 looks in a different league to anything on 360, tho how it plays will be a different matter.

I guess what Im asking is, " if the Ps3 is so ham strung technically then why is it pushing the graphical fidelity of games further than the 360?". ( IMHO games wise, cos the best looking game on 360 for me is still GOW1 ).

/not looking to argue, just discussing :)

I see. Thanks Jizz.

Btw I think MS is the biggest liars in the industry, to a tune of 1billion dollars, that and dumping the xb1 overnight.


/yes im not bitter at all lol.

Well truth be told Ive never owned a Sony console before my recent ps3. And before that, my 360 died, had months of bother with it.

But im open to all sides of the argument. Ive read many a story about Sonys ps2 being just as troublesome. Im not into brands myself, but I did find the RROD thing particular shocking, and how a company could get away with this in this day and age and how so many people could still come to support MS in spite of this.

Then the damage may not be apparent until the next console from MS comes, then who knows?

I def agree m8, Ms has pioneered alot of great innovations both software and hardware.

Here is what Sony's bullshit and hyperbole was able to do to a supposedley objective industry journalist.

Rob's Take On The PS3

The article is so far off the mark it's almost unbelievable.

Hedbog,

why moan about people spouting biased bile on the internet, everyone has eyes, they can read and see your toys going out of the pram on a regular basis...it's really really odd to see people complain about bias and blindly following something on an article where they're basically going nuts because EG got a load of good equipment to fairly test multiplat games...if their comparisons are lies game publishers can sue them for misinformation, can't they?

hedbog is a chubby little 13 year old boy with a lisp who has sexual fantasies about 'Ekth-Bot-th' and repeatedly jizzes in his own face every time someone mentions Bill Gates. His SDF persona is just a way to try and stop people clocking on to his deep sexual desires towards Bill and the dreaded Ekth-Bot-th.

He's obviously a paranoid schizophrenic too.

@Calgon.

Don't you ever compare me to you and eg again, if I'm a *so called* PS3 fanboy, why is it I bought SW:TFU and BIA:HH on the 360?

Why would I even bother playing on the 360? Why would I buy multiplats on the 360?
Just because you and eg are biased fanboy idiots doesn't make me be a fanboy too.

Like I keep saying, even if the 360 version is *supposedly* better, there is no fucking way it could win everytime.

We have established that you hate the PS3 and are indeed a 360 fanboy, PS3 exclusives could (I'm not sure) look better than nearly all the 360 exclusives, they do indeed look better than GoW, which isn't graphically better than everything, like people make it out to be.

If everyone (like you're idiotic friend) listens to what eg say, hardly anyone would buy a PS3, but alas they are.

I'm sorry for repeating myself but it seems I'm not getting through to some people, maybe they are blind rabid fanboys.

I was waiting for an idiot to call me a fanboy, it turns out Calgon was that idiot.

I hate MS (so what), I saw a programme about them, they literally pissed me off, but love the Xbox, I'm on (I think) my 7th, 1 core, 4-5 premiums and now an Elite, traded in the core for a premium, kept having trouble with them, bought an Elite and got rid of my last premium.

Hardware wise the Xbox is a pos, I've been through about 5 original Xbox's.

I'm not even a Sony fanboy, what they did to Nintendo pissed me off.

Never had trouble with a PS1 and only had trouble with one PS2 (I had it chipped), I've only ever had trouble with one Nintendo console (Wii), the Disc drive broke.

I'm a Gamer not a console loyalist loving freak, I play games, I play exclusives on each system, I buy more multiplats for the 360, I some on the PS3, I see no difference to a lot of the games, even the developers acknowledge that.

Are the devs lying? Wouldn't they be in shit for doing that? Someone is lying.

DaemonB R2 doesnt even look as good as GOW2 have you actually seen the latest footage of R2? I dont know where you get that from at all I was pretty underwhelmed with R2s gameplay footage and judging by the comments on EG Im not the only one. To be fair though I understand that they are going for different goals with R2(has to work online with 40+ players).

Killzone2 so far is equal to GOW2 at best and after the first game I think a close examination is in order to see if you can spot the engines flaws like you could in the first game.

I guess what Im asking is, " if the Ps3 is so ham strung technically then why is it pushing the graphical fidelity of games further than the 360?". ( IMHO games wise, cos the best looking game on 360 for me is still GOW1 ).

There arent any PS3 games pushing graphical fidelity further than 360 though, whether you prefer the look of some PS3 games is subjective(which is fine enjoy them) thats what you should have said... graphical fidelity on the other hand is a different matter, as thats GPU related and we know Xenos is stronger than RSX why hold your breath for it? Thats not where the PS3s strengths will show if they are going to at all... physics (which again I strongly doubt) might be a stronger arguement but theres no evidence to support this advantage in any of PS3s existing portfolio and the upcoming ones we've seen so far either.

Now what Ive been pointing out is that so far things have been pointing to 360 edging it in realworld performance GOW2 matches or exceeds anything you want to put up against it for PS3 on its technical merrits and its visuals; up against games that have had far longer dev cycles and more money thrown at them, I think it says alot for 360s potential too. Its a good system(soon to be great if jasper finally brings 360s reliability inline with the competition) one that many, Sony included underestimated leading up until launch. Does this mean PS3 is crap or "not in the same league" no I personally think theres not much in it but 360 edges it.

What all of this does is dispell the myth about PS3 being more powerfull or to some deluded Sony Fanboys "In another league" at this point in time(2-3 years in... longer in dev terms) its just not looking likely, even a system thats more difficult to program for would be showing its advantage by now and it really hasnt in any regard except storage space.

Whats so bad about 360 being the slightly better gaming machine? Why is it so hard to accept? Why must that statement be spun into an attack on PS3 or Sony every time?

Heres a pro PS3 statement from me then, I think PS3 has better multimedia capabilities as things are, its quieter so better suited for it and it plays pretty much anything you throw at it, including Blu-Ray. It all depends what your priorities are really, every console has its advantages so far... its just Sony fanboys try and claim them all even where its not true... thats just missleading.

wingzerosys, we all know Calgon is pro 360 but he does actually use logic to back his opinions instead of bullshit like yourself. The 360 versions of 'practically' all multi-plat games are better, I know it because I've compared for myself, you know it too, it's fact mate. In most cases it's no big deal and as others have said, you generally will pick the version that has a certain feature you want i.e. Darth Vader in SCIV or you'll pick the one with the best pad for the certain genre of game you're playing. In my case that means I tend to go for the PS pad for fighters but the 360 pad for FPS and driving games. Just stop with the utter bollocks you're talking, you make as much sense as anal sex with Barrymore when he's got the runs.