Xbox 360 nearing limits of capability - Epic

By Robert Purchese Published 2 September, 2008

Plus: Gears 2 further along than expected.

Rod Fergusson, manager of the Gears of War franchise at Epic Games, believes developers will soon be at the upper end of what the Xbox 360 can technically achieve.

He said Gears of War 2 had come surprisingly far during the two to three years since development wound down on the original.

"We're certainly approaching the upper end of what developers are able to do with it, but just looking at all the demos we saw today - ours and others - it's clear that all the games just keep improving, and keep pushing that bar," Fergusson told Gamasutra.

"It's a slow cycle; you only get a kick at it every couple years, and so it takes a while for people to see that progress. There will be games in development that won't ship until 2010, and I'm sure they'll look killer, just because, again, they'll have more time with [the console] and learn from mistakes and optimisations of others.

"So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow," said Fergusson.

Gears of War 2 will be released exclusively for Xbox 360 on 7th November. Among the many improvements will be expanded online pursuits for two teams of five, plus loads more weapons, characters, abilities and even a more in-depth storyline.

Head over to our hands-on impressions of Gears of War 2 from E3 2008.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (55) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Pedrolot #1 3 years ago

    You heard it first.

  • onyxbox #2 3 years ago

    am i the only one that isn't that excited about gears 2. i'm sure it will be as good as the first but not that different.

  • penhalion #3 3 years ago

    Wasn't he talking about Graphics though?

  • peteb #4 3 years ago

    Oh god, this is not going to be pretty.

  • mkreku #5 3 years ago

    It will be better on PC ;)

  • Slikz #6 3 years ago

    ^^^ you can't be serious (cell)
    Edited by 1 at 02/09/08 @ 16:56

  • #7 3 years ago

    So what, 360 has had it good, heres to many more games.

  • Xerx3s #8 3 years ago

    /umbrella up

  • miiiguel #9 3 years ago

    I still prefer to be able to use all the potential rather than have the idea that I have a forever-untapped potential. But that's a personal opinion.

  • Xerx3s #10 3 years ago

    "untapped potential of teh cell processer"

    This is where natural selection failed.

  • penhalion #11 3 years ago

    I wouldn't read too much into this as it's more a stage set for the next XBox. Notice how he mentions the 2010 games. This is roughly where Microsoft are aiming to start positioning their successor in peoples minds. It actually fits in with their console cycle though obviously not with Sonys.

  • space_ace #12 3 years ago

    colour 360 games from 2010, confirmed

  • kangarootoo #13 3 years ago

    ""untapped potential of teh cell processer"

    This is where natural selection failed."

    Heehee, +1

  • Madafunkola #14 3 years ago

    Weren't they saying similar things 2/3 years into the PS2 lifecycle? And devs are still pushing the bounries of the old boy's capabilities. Albeit they seem to be pushing it with Singstar, Buzz! and Guitar Hero : Aerosmith Edition... ;p

    All hype imho - "OUR GAME IS THE BEST YOU IS EVA GUNNA GET!"

  • AJUK #15 3 years ago

    Given that both consoles are the same (aside from the extra storage space on BR) that suggests that games will not be looking any better than Gears 2 ever? Nonsense, it's not THAT good looking! Why do developers insist on trotting out these 'reaching the limits' and 'untapped potential' comments every time they have a game to promote????

  • miiiguel #16 3 years ago

    Read the interview, it's quite nice actually. Although I wasn't able to read the exact "punch line" EG states, he does sorta say "I dare someone to make a game this good (looking) on any current-gen system".
    Edited by 2 at 02/09/08 @ 17:18

  • Irien #17 3 years ago

    It's worth remembering that despite reaching its potential, the PS2 was still churning out excellent games up until about last year. I still have a stack of really fun PS2 titles, alongside 360 and PS3 ones. (Actually, PS3 is mostly being used for PS2 titles). Obviously it depends on your preferred genre, but the 360 and PS3 should be about to come into their prime.

  • drumbaby #18 3 years ago

    It's at its limits, yet still with room to grow. Pointless attention-seeking vox pops FTW!

  • electrolite #19 3 years ago

    Does anyone else think the headline is almost completely unrelated to the actual text of the story?

  • Chufty #20 3 years ago

    Yes, I had to read the article again before I spotted where they actually alluded to the headline

  • penhalion #21 3 years ago

    @electrolite

    Yep, that's why my first post pointed out that he was talking about graphics and not the machines potential to do new things.

  • Grom #22 3 years ago

    Yeah, er

    "So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow"

    = XBOX 360 ALMOST DEAD, TECHNICALLY AS SHIT AS A COMMODORE 64 HOLY FUCK

  • Farfarer #23 3 years ago

    It's about time.

    Perhaps now we can see some more innovations in the way games play rather than just upgrades in shiny magpie-pleasing graphics.

  • miiiguel #24 3 years ago

    EG editor 1: "holly crap, we better get some +100 post thread quick, this shit's too slow...."
    EG editor 2: "worry not, I´ll cook up something..., it´s not realy that hard. Watch it!"

  • muscleblade #25 3 years ago

    Gears 2 will be amazing and it will never come to PC thats confirmed by Epic already. Sorry mkreku.

  • IneptPercy #26 3 years ago

    Its an interesting point with consoles where does the wall lie, the PS2 just kept getting pushed and the results where great, it just comes down to is it financially viable, with the PS2 it was as there was such a large install base that to come up with something above the other games meant huge sales, mean while the xbox had more power but never really go pushed to its limit as it didn't have the install base to justify it.

    It would seem this time round it maybe quite the opposite where the 360 keeps getting pushed and the PS3 never sees its full potential, people do seem to love the potential of the cell etc but to me I just want results, I don't care which has the most potential, I care which is producing the best results.

  • Carpathian #27 3 years ago

    First:-
    "We're certainly approaching the upper end of what developers are able to do with it"

    Later:-
    "There will be games in development that won't ship until 2010, and I'm sure they'll look killer, just because, again, they'll have more time with [the console] and learn from mistakes and optimisations of others."

    So, the 360 is all bit done but will have even better stuff still coming out until around 2010.

    Yep, it's the sound of a dev who really doesn't know what he thinks and proves this with supreme ease.

  • septimus #28 3 years ago

    Not surprising. Not much has really surpassed Gears of War, let alone 2, on the 360.
    Edited by 1 at 02/09/08 @ 19:02

  • Calgon #29 3 years ago

    Sounds like he was asked the question and half agreed with it rather than what the headline says... he'd say the same of PS3 too no doubt... GOW2 is no more the limit of 360s capability than MGS4/Killzone2/Resistance2 is the limit of PS3s.

    UE3 isnt a native 360 engine dont forget, I really doubt theres even much VMX code in there... let alone heavily optimised 360 VMX code. Having said all that if we are just talking visual fidelity rather than capability on this generation of consoles then something like GOW2 is a good benchmark... but Im pretty sure we'll still see even better out of the 360, like he basically admitted himself. Rare rarely dissapoint with their engines, it'd be nice if MS took notice and invested a little in this area like Sony have been desperately trying to do since the launch of the PS3("its got super awesome Cell power its just untapped come back in 5 years and what you see on PS3 hardware today will have improved \0/... cool huh?";).

    Sounds like they are giving themselves a pat on the back a little also, for what they've acheived, should be interesting to see fully just what that is in the final product.
    Edited by 2 at 02/09/08 @ 19:25

  • Sulphur_Man #30 3 years ago

    @squarejawhero

    When I read 'Gears 2' I thought it was a driving game, allbeit a limited one, with just forward and reverse.

    Still, better than GT5 Prologue.

  • ThePissartist #31 3 years ago

    Anyone think Gears 2 looks anywhere near as good as RAGE?

    I've got a bit of a bone to pick with Epic anyway: I recently bought Unreal 3 for the 360, I personally find it to be a fairly bogstandard shooter. Maybe at the turn of the century it was great (and it really was), but it just doesn't cut the mustard anymore. I don't even think the graphics are as good as CoD4 - cut scenes are good, but am I playing cut scenes??

    I was genuinely disappointed with it. I'd love to sit down with the devs and let them know how much of a let-down it was for me.

    GoW is good though. I'm sure GoW2 will be too.

  • Adaptor #32 3 years ago

    This has a lot more to do with marketing than technical insight ofcourse. They have to say they're pushing the envelope but at the same time have to say there is some power left so they don't piss off MS. Just like every other comment a developer has made about a console's capabilities...

  • Quint2020 #33 3 years ago

    That's a wonderful fanboy baiting headline EG.

    Doesn't the last paragraph in the article say: "So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow," said Fergusson."?

  • Les #34 3 years ago

    That's what you get when you let the non-tech guys talk about technology...Though you might argue that to become a franchise manager, one would have to have a certain level of intelligence. But then again, he is managing one of the most brain dead franchises in all of video game history... Guess that makes him more likely to succeed with the target audience... :p

  • Gradius #35 3 years ago

    Is Les a cretin?

    I think the answer is yes.

  • davisorle #36 3 years ago

    Correct me if im wrong but like he said, there are games under development ( something we know but im pointing out the obvious facts he did in the interview ) that look ofc way better than what's already coming out. That's a freaking simple fact since it's been like that since we move to 3d gaming and not the past few years...

    So what is he telling us? that 360 will hit it's limit in 2010? oO And even if that's true.. Wtf is wrong with u and the cell processor already? lol. So you wanna wait another 2 -3 years to prove your money didn't go to waste with PS3? I mean focus on the fucking articles before you start the comments ffs.

    Anyhow. Facts:
    A) Better and better games are already in development ( He only said that he thinks they are getting close which means that their projects havent even reached it yetr which means even after the games that will be released from them in 2 years from now)
    B) There will have been by then at least 4 years of amazing gaming and investment of my money on my console..

    Now what seems to be the problem? lol And personally I hope a next gen console will be out to replace my xbox. 4-5 years are enough of it if I can move to something with significant changes. Ofc that's just a personal opinion. Still better to pay a total of 800Euros for 8-10 years of gaming with the best gaming experience from consoles. You go ahead and wait for 360 to reach it's limit if that makes you happy for some reason.

  • Triggerhappytel #37 3 years ago

    I reckon in 2-3 years Microsoft will be releasing Gears of War 3 as a launch title for the new Xbox.

    Possibly alongside Halo 4?

  • Tiger_Walts #38 3 years ago

    I think more accurately you can say that UE3 is nearing its limits on the 360.

    To suggest that your multi-format game engine is the best possible solution ever is a little big-headed.

  • Buztafen #39 3 years ago

    @ electrlite - I was thinking exactly the same thing...he doesnt actually mention anything about the limits of graphics or processing power being reached in the article.

    Hog-wash and poppy cock....and fucking bollocks...

  • paul_haine #40 3 years ago

    "We've now used nearly every shade of brown."

  • Eurytus #41 3 years ago

    The interview actually said that the limit would be reached in about 2010. Well that was always the sort of timescale I had in mind for the next Xbox anyway. There is no way Microsoft will be looking at a 10 year lifespan like Sony are with the PS3. I believe the successor will be out by 2011 with the 360 phasing out a year or two after.

  • andywilkie35 #42 3 years ago

    At the end of the day, if it is indeed coming towards the maximum it can achieve then I don't care, the games they're releasing now are fooking incredible gameplay and graphics wise, and with games like Fable 2, Fallout 3, Gears 2 etc on the horizon, I don't care if they can't get better than this. To me its good enough already.

  • Skurmedel #43 3 years ago

    The upper limit of graphical candy yes. I've yet to see the upper limit of sheer gaming joy though, although the latest Geometry Wars comes close.

  • SpyroViper #44 3 years ago

    "Sounds like he was asked the question and half agreed with it rather than what the headline says... he'd say the same of PS3 too no doubt... GOW2 is no more the limit of 360s capability than MGS4/Killzone2/Resistance2 is the limit of PS3s."

    I think you are sadly mistaken, Killzone 2, Guerilla Games have said they are only using 3 out of the 6 available SPU's of the PS3, Resistence 2 I think is about the same and Kojima has never said anything remotely technical about how they use the SPU's in MGS4 as far as I know.

    Typical Xbot - Knows Nothing.

    Edited by 1 at 03/09/08 @ 09:58

  • Dizzy #45 3 years ago

    "I think you are sadly mistaken, Killzone 2, Guerilla Games have said they are only using 3 out of the 6 available SPU's of the PS3"

    You would think that after 3 years these devs would have the skill to use all SPUs. Kindergarden programmers? Or is there a mysterious reason why they can't/won't use them? Please inform us since you seem to be an expert.

  • Inflatable #46 3 years ago

    I agree with what Tiger_Walts said.. Epic is hitting the ceiling now with their UE3, that doesn't mean there cannot be another piece of software that can do a little more with the Xbox 360 hardware.. In the end it's all about software optimisations, so the steps forward won't be huge.. The real steps forward are made when the actual hardware gets an upgrade (read: a new more powerfull console comes out).. PC gamers should know this aswell, you can get extra performance from a new driver or patch, and games with newer and/or updated engines can look better, but the only real gains are made when you upgrade your hardware..

  • kinky_mong #47 3 years ago

    Not surprising. Not much has really surpassed Gears of War, let alone 2, on the 360.

    Well except pretty much every other game on the 360 that is actually fun to play rather than being a collection of browns and greys in high definition to distract from a broken game mechanic and brain-dead plot.

  • zuljin #48 3 years ago

    @SpyroViper
    "I think you are sadly mistaken, Killzone 2, Guerilla Games have said they are only using 3 out of the 6 available SPU's of the PS3"

    I think I'm going to have to agree with Dizzy on this. Wtf?

  • el_pollo_diablo #49 3 years ago

    What a delightfully inaccurate headline this article has. The Daily Mirror would be so proud.

  • Redeye #50 3 years ago

    The one thing that does make me chuckle about all this is that throughout videogaming's somewhat colourful history, practically every single machine (be it computer or console) has gone beyond what was perceived to be their so-called limits of capability, because clever buggers keep finding ways to get more and more out of them. So, apart from the fact that the headline is patent red-top click-bait, it's about as accurate as me publishing a story under the title of 'Pope Creates Hyperdrive'.

  • Buztafen #51 3 years ago

    ^^^^^^^I so want this to happen!!!! Make it so Redeye.....

  • Les #52 3 years ago

    "Is Les a cretin?

    I think the answer is yes."

    Ooh, I think I hit a nerve... :)

  • Yaz #53 3 years ago

    SpyroViper wrote: "Killzone 2, Guerilla Games have said they are only using 3 out of the 6 available SPU's of the PS3, Resistence 2 I think is about the same"

    Actually, for KZ2, it's currently said to be 4.5 SPUs;

    [link url=http://www.kil lzoneunit.com/kz/?p=1321
    ]http://www.kil lzoneunit.com/kz/?p=1321
    [/link]

    "The magazine features 12 pages of Killzone 2 goodness, some of which mentions that four-and-a-half of the six cores of the PS3’s Cell chip are being used by Killzone 2 at the moment"

    Which actually means 5 SPUs, since you're either using an SPU or you're not.

    Resistance used 5 SPUs and Resistance 2 wil use all 6 SPUs;

    [link url=http://www.insomniacgames.com/t ech/articles/0108/files/RFOM_Debriefing_public.pdf
    ]http://ww w.insomniacgames.com/tech/artic...[/link]

    (Page 31 onwards for SPU usage)


  • Elgi #54 3 years ago

    killzone 2 rockssssss

  • captainrentboy #55 3 years ago

    Ahhh Yaz is still pwning the clueless tossers with his words. Good stuff.
    And yeah, the headline is about as misleading as they come. Good work EG.
    I think I'm more excited about Fable 2 and Banjo 3 than I am GOW2, I'm sure it'll be great and all, but the feeling of immense deja-vu when looking at any videos of it can't go ignored.