Xbox 360 leads PS3 by 1m in Europe

By Tom Bramwell Published 16 December, 2008

Across five key territories.

Xbox 360 currently has a combined lead over PlayStation 3 of around one million lifetime sales across five key European territories - the UK, France, Germany, Spain and Italy.

That's according to GfK Chart-Track data seen by Eurogamer that shows like-for-like sales of console hardware across October and November.

The installed base totals suggest that Sony is catching up on Microsoft, which launched Xbox 360 over a year earlier than PS3.

But following a price cut in September, Microsoft's figures have jumped and the platform holder can be confident of holding its lead into the New Year.

Earlier this month, Sony Europe president David Reeves told MCV that PS3's installed base was 300,000 bigger than Xbox 360's "in PAL territories", which also includes countries outside Europe, like Australia.

On the same day, Microsoft claimed its "biggest ever sales month" in Europe for November, declaring a 124 per cent improvement year-on-year.

"Xbox 360 has sold more than seven million consoles in Europe since its launch in November 2005," the platform holder said at the time.

Sony declined to comment on the GfK Chart-Track figures when we contacted the company late last week.

Update 20.41 GMT: Just to clarify, the figures we've seen refer to Oct and Nov sales, but also show lifetime installed base figures, which indicate the one million lead.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (148) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • konniehuqfan #1 3 years ago

    well it's cheaper and had a year's head start...

    ps3 will make up the ground when it's £200 in europe

  • DFawkes #2 3 years ago

    Well it's not a claim from MS themselves, so I'll trust that. I'm not surprised either, it's cheap, better marketed, and has the greatest game ever made on it (Tenchu Z).
    As soon as Christmas is over and I've saved up, I'll be buying my second, since I want a big ol' Elite.

  • metalnut #3 3 years ago

    Who knows who to believe these days. Each company can exploit the fluctuating definition of 'Europe' to their own ends.

    All I know for sure is that the UK is a 360 heartland, and since that's where most of my friends are, that's all that really matters to me.

  • penhalion #4 3 years ago

    So let me get this straight. Sony have now even lost the ability to claim european superiority........

  • Widge #5 3 years ago

    I like a good fluctuate

  • Squire #6 3 years ago

    I fail to see the significance. There's obviously no clear winner this generation, and there isn't going to be.

  • DFawkes #7 3 years ago

    EDIT: Wii has won, and by a fairly clear, massive margin.

    If I didn't treasure my PS3 since it's the only thing I've ever won, and hadn't cracked the memory card flap (I cried when I did that), I'd have traded it in as soon as I'd got bored with LBP, and got an Elite with HD-DVD drvie and all the cheap HD-DVDs aI could find.

    I don't know a single other person with a PS3, but all my friends have 360s. One of them is the one that introduced me to Tenchu Z awesomeness. I really miss going online and going around doing stealth kills. I miss my 360.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 15:37

  • mcbi4kh2 #8 3 years ago

    erm, NA + eur + jap != world.

  • yerawldda #9 3 years ago

    only 1m in it after a year plus head start, not so good. that gap could be closed in a month.

  • DFawkes #10 3 years ago

    Are you implying Mexicans, Argentinians, Peruvians, and Austrailians are among those with the right to buy 360s! That's shocking!

  • Kenshin001 #11 3 years ago

    Reeves was talking bullshit. There is no way Australia, NZ, Scandinavia etc. would make up over a million sales. Man is a clown and should have been demoted ages ago.

  • stepneg #12 3 years ago

    It's the beginning of the end, I am glad I didn't cave in and buy one it was just too expensive to justify it. Now you can pick up decent BluRay players for less than 200 there really is no need for me to get one.

  • drumbaby #13 3 years ago

    How can the Xbox 360 have such a narrow lead with a whole year's head start? Can someone please explain that?

  • DoctorZoidberg #14 3 years ago

    To be frank, being in the lead by even one consloe is a massive coup for microsoft. If you think how dominant the PlayStation brand has been the past ten years or so.

    The onus is well and truely on Sony from now on. I'm sure they will eventually overtake, but the fact they have had to work for it is a big dent to sony in my eyes.

    Edit : Drumbaby....please don't exercise your right to speak in here....

    Portsmouth FC were founded seven years before Chelsea, why are they not higher in the league?
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 15:49

  • Gurgeh #15 3 years ago

    "There's obviously no clear winner this generation, and there isn't going to be."

    O rly? Take a look at the graphs:
    [link url=http://www.gamasutra.com/v iew/feature/3882/npd_behind_the_numbers_november_.php?page=2
    ]http://ww w.gamasutra.com/view/feature/38...[/link]

    "Starting with November 2006, the PS3 lost ground to the Xbox 360 at a nearly constant rate through much of its first year, with a slowing during July 2007 when Sony first adjusted the prices of the PlayStation hardware. Microsoft's own August 2007 price cuts and strong software lineup then pushed the PS3 further behind through November. At the same time, the Wii was catching up to the Xbox 360, slowed only momentarily when Halo 3 launched.

    "Sony's November 2007 price drop was very effective. Instead of losing ground to the Xbox 360, it actually made some modest gains through July 2008, with a bump from the June sales which accompanied the release of Metal Gear Solid 4. When Microsoft cut prices again, this time in August 2008, Sony began to lose ground and has ended its second year about twice as far behind the Xbox 360 as it was when it launched in November 2006.

    "By comparison, Nintendo was still hampered by hardware shortages during Holiday 2007 but then caught up to – and surpassed – the Xbox 360 by mid-2008."

    The winner in terms of hardware sold is the Wii by some margin.

  • Sid-Nice #16 3 years ago

    How many of those 1 million consoles are broken?

  • Widge #17 3 years ago

    If you speak of Sony as a brand, then you'd have to lump in the entire brands performance not just the PS3. The same with Nintendo too, who really do ram home the "ruling the roost" once you lump in the DS into all of that.

  • Kenshin001 #18 3 years ago

    One thing I'm curious about though, the across all 5 territories thing. Does this mean the 360 led in all countries or just dominated one or two? I can see the 360 leading in the UK by a long shot but not Spain or Italy.

  • RamblinSydRumpo #19 3 years ago

    Why is this fucking site so obsessed with who sells more than who? I can't find a movie magazine site that says such-and -such studio's films have outgrossed somebody elses. It's completely pointless. Without the 360 we wouldn't have Gears, without the PS3 there'd be no Uncharted etc. Could we please focus on what matters and stop these idiotic fanboy-baiting stories.

    /rant mode off

  • Spacecakes #20 3 years ago

    That's really bad considering the 360 is cheaper and had a year's head start.

    Oh where are the other 5 million =p

  • Xerx3s #21 3 years ago

    "which also includes countries outside Europe, like Australia. "

    Wait, when did them assies become independent? Send in the marines ffs!

    All this is obviously all spinning and lies. Who cares?

  • bioreit #22 3 years ago

    @ drumbaby

    "How can the Xbox 360 have such a narrow lead with a whole year's head start? Can someone please explain that? "

    Becuase much of continental Europe is a hotbed of Sony fanboyism that wouldn't touch a 360 with a bargepole, even if it came with free cookies and ice cream for life. Well, it used to be, but I think the ultra-cheap pricing, somewhat improved reliability and huge established catalogue of games is winning many folks round. I honestly believed the PS3 to have overtaken the 360 by now - the UK notwithstanding.

    Will add my name to the list of those confused by the choice of only five territories - mayhaps the figures would be more on par if all of Europe was counted? Who knows.

  • dreassic #23 3 years ago

    I bet majority of that lead is in UK only, a few months ago that was wlmost a million units there already.
    So this suggest Sony already caught up every where else.

  • Apologie #24 3 years ago

    360 is a toy, Ps3 is a media center and the most inovative piece of entertainment hardware you can buy right now... well, it only depends on your wallet and good taste... Xbox have nothing to offer anymore and as soon as the PS3 drops the price (early next year) its game over for Microsoft especially in Europe.
    Edited by 2 at 16/12/08 @ 16:06

  • Kenshin001 #25 3 years ago

    Oh dear.

  • Xerx3s #26 3 years ago

    Yup, anyone with taste will go for the massive library of good 360 titles and anyone with common sense will buy the console now it is so incredibly cheap. I've always known that you where a loyal 360 supporter apology.

  • beholdthelantern #27 3 years ago

    I'm actually quite suprised how well the PS3 has done considering it was late to the party, costs a packet, blu-ray hasn't exactly ignited the home movie scene, the controller feels like a limp piece of bog roll and it doesn't score many points on good exclusives. It's also a pain in the arse to keep clean.

    A shame too as it's a fantastic system. I don't want to seem all 'fanboy' but next to the xbox it just doesn't come close. First to the party, realistically priced, didn't bother with a built-in HD movie setup (opting for movie downloads or optional HD DVD instead, genius), the controller is solid and properly thought out (unless you're on the d-pad, rare) and it has a good lot of quality exclusives. Say what you like about Halo 3 and Gears 2 but they're console shifters!

    And then there is Xbox Live...

    Again, I'm really surprised they're only a million behind!

    @Apologie - erm, Media Centre on xbox is excellent. You should try it sometime.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 16:08

  • Luvbeers #28 3 years ago

    I can see it in the store here in Austria (Saturn). I go there perhaps once a week. In the past two December holiday shopping Saturdays I've seen two stacks of 360's go. Arcades are sold out, and there are only dwindling amounts of Elites and 60GB pros left. On the other hand the Playstation 3's still have the same huge stack.

  • BiscuitBase #29 3 years ago

    I got a PS3 recently and I'm loving my blu-rays.

    Games, not so much

  • JetSetWilly #30 3 years ago

    Headline reads like 1min. Now that would be close.

  • Madafunkola #31 3 years ago

    "360 is a toy, Ps3 is a media center"
    Really? How comes I can stream movies, photos and music from my computer to my 360 then? And download movies from xbox live... I must have some kind of enhanced xbox... lucky me!

  • Apologie #32 3 years ago

    Xerx3s

    exclusives??? you gotta be kidding me... have you seen the amount of top quality titles recently released for the PS3?? have you seen the titles coming out in 2009??? i dont want to bring a list in here ;p

    seriously, PS3 will crush the Xbox360 in short time... mark my words. Price drop, exclusives, home, BluRay... = big success.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 16:17

  • TheMoonRat #33 3 years ago

    [link url=http://vgcha rtz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2®1=All&cons2=PS3®2=All&c ons3=X360®3=All&weeks=260
    ]http://vg chartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=P...[/link]

    Is quite an interesting graph. It compares, from day 0 of launch of the respective console, sales from that point over the first 5 years. As you can see, the PS3 is actually doing better than the xbox360 did at the same stage of its life; but neither is anywhere near how the PS2 did in it's generation. The PS2 sales is interesting; always higher, but then frequently big surges in sales each christmas, that hasn't happened on anywhere near the same scale with the ps3/xbox360 yet

    To add to that: [link url=htt p://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=Wii®1=Europe&cons2=PS 3®2=Europe&cons3=X360®3=Europe&weeks=156
    ]http://vg chartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=W...[/link]

    Shows the wii, xbox360 and ps3 in europe... as you can see it seems most of europe are sony lovers, as it's pretty much caught up already

    Whereas America aren't: http://vg chartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=W...
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 16:15

  • Squire #34 3 years ago

    Yes yes I know the Wii has won but it doesn't count for this comparison.

  • GreasyWeasel #35 3 years ago

    I simply don't believe that the number of consoles sold = the number of people using those consoles. I know a number of people that have or do own more than one 360 simply because their first (second, third and so on) has broken down in some way. I even know people that have bought a cheap arcade unit whilst waiting for their broken console to be replaced. These count as console sales but they don't count as new users.

    I would love to know the actual number of active consoles.

    I am currently waiting for my xbox to be replaced again (4th time!) due to the rrod so we know they are very unreliable. I have only had one ps3 however and don't know anyone that has bought a second whilst their first is being fixed. I don't want this to be seen as a xbox vs ps3 rant though. I own both and play on the 360 a lot more I just wish it was built half as well as the ps3.

  • Rich72 #36 3 years ago

    Crush is a bit strong apologie. what are these amazing exclusives you speak of? i bought a ps3 last week and have so far been immensely disappointed.

  • Madafunkola #37 3 years ago

    Careful Rich72, you are dicing with death! You may get a bit fat list in your face any second!

  • miiiguel #38 3 years ago

    " These count as console sales but they don't count as new users. "
    I'm actually quite happy with that... Live is getting a bit too crowded. There are enough users already. Not so sure if Ballmer agrees, but for me they shouldn't allow new accounts.

  • Apologie #39 3 years ago

    everybody likes to critisize the PS3, yes, Sony may have commited some mistakes... but given the laughable reliability of the X360, isnt that a bit of contradicting??? Microsoft didn't had any kind of consideration for they'r costyumers by releasing consciously a defective product... and yet,.

  • DanWhitehead #40 3 years ago

    To be frank, being in the lead by even one consloe is a massive coup for microsoft. If you think how dominant the PlayStation brand has been the past ten years or so.

    Exactly. The PlayStation brand managed to flatten the Saturn, the Dreamcast, the N64, the Gamecube and the original Xbox. That the PS3 is even having to compete so hard today, never mind in such a close race for second place, is a significant slip backwards for PlayStation.

    And while fanboys may like to keep the focus on PS3 vs 360, the simple fact is that it's the Wii that has delivered the hardest body blow to the PlayStation. It was assumed that all those millions of mainstream PS2 owners were primed to move up to the PS3, but the Wii has comprehensively stolen that enormous and lucrative market from under Sony's nose. Considering the comparative fortunes of Nintendo and Sony over the last two generations, that's a phenomenal turnaround.

  • chessboxer #41 3 years ago

    Here is what IGN thought of exclusive games in 2008 across the Wii, 360 and PS3:

    ht tp://uk.games.ign.com/articles/937/937519p1.html.

  • Rich72 #42 3 years ago

    i really don't understand the resistance 2 love, it truly is dire. a chore to play through with awful graphics and control. PS3 has COD so why this scored so highly is a mystery to me.

  • bioreit #43 3 years ago

    @ stepneg

    "Now you can pick up decent BluRay players for less than 200 there really is no need for me to get one."

    I was thinking that, but ended up buying a PS3 the other day. Mostly for Blu-Ray playback capabilities, but also because I didn't want to be in a position in a year or two's time whereby there was an amazing PS3 exclusive I really wanted, but already had a Blu-Ray player. I had the spare cash, saw a good deal in GAME and thought "You know what, sod it."

    Excellent Blu-Ray player, although there are so many niggly things wrong with the console all I ever seem to do is bitch about it to my friends. Nothing that makes me regret buying it, but I just can't see myself spending time on the PS instead of the 360.

  • mcmonkeyplc #44 3 years ago

    Is that it?

  • Rich72 #45 3 years ago

    almost the exact same scenario as me bioreit. i think i'm glad i bought it. i'm loving wipeout..... a very expensive version of wipeout it now seems.

  • peterfll #46 3 years ago

    Well done Microsoft. It's cost you enough.

    One of those sales in September was my new Elite, which replaced my launch unit RRoD (that evetually was part exchanged in GAME).

    Poor Sony, I do like them too.

    \shakes fist at Nintendo for stealing all the consumers and making them play Cooking Mama.

  • teabagger #47 3 years ago

    I wish PS3 was doing better to be honest because out of that and the 360, as far as a complete user experience goes, I much prefer using the PS3. That said, it's a self-made situation and I think Sony have still got it all wrong at present. For every PS3 advert I've seen 10 or more for 360. Even games that are multi-platform are tied very strongly to the 360 brand in the ads, and all at an attractive price. Even if Sony sorted out their ad campaign the average end user will still see a machine (360) that plays the same games at half the price. Unless you *really* want a PS3, it's a complete no brainer as to which you're going to buy.

  • bioreit #48 3 years ago

    @ Rich72

    "a very expensive version of wipeout it now seems."

    Ah see, now there we have to differ. Although I have yet to purchase WipEout HD, I will do so shortly. And I suspect that that one game alone will justify the PS3 for me :-)

  • Dave52 #49 3 years ago

    In selected territories the 360 is beating the PS3 - no doubt. But it had a years head start and a massive price drop... I think next year the PS3 will have a price drop and has some cool exclusives - KZ2, FF and yes, Home will expand and become more of a draw (I know you don't believe it - but it will. My kids (14 and 15) think Home is excellent - that's who it's probably aimed at).

    We'll see...

  • Rich72 #50 3 years ago

    we don't have to differ.... i genuinely love wipeout. but at £300 for a download game, one has to raise one's eyebrow(s).

  • StooMonster #51 3 years ago

    Why is this fucking site so obsessed with who sells more than who?

    Don't read the data driven articles -- e.g. sales figures and Face-Off -- if you prefer subjective ones.

    I can't find a movie magazine site that says such-and -such studio's films have outgrossed somebody elses. It's completely pointless.

    Trade ones? Even the BBC site publishes box office figures of movies on a regular basis, but go to the USA and the newspapers and magazines and television news have plenty of stories about the box office that movies do, which studios are doing well, how much box office a certain actor does etc.

    Personally I like the quantitative data-driven articles.

    As to the difference between numbers, one has to look out for number shipped versus number sold; where shipped is the amount manufacturer stuffed into channel (and might be sat on shelves) and sold is end customer actually purchased.

  • StooMonster #52 3 years ago

    Oh, did anyone read The Inquirer's take on state of PS3 yesterday?

    [link url=http://www.theinquirer.net/in quirer/opinion/045/1050045/why-sony-can-t-kill-the-ps3 ]http://ww w.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opin...[/link]

    Interesting theory...

  • Rich72 #53 3 years ago

    and if you are a house music fan, i have to recommend putting BookaShade, Trentemoller and the Get Physical albums as custom soundtracks for wipeout...... awesome.

  • Negotiator #54 3 years ago

    I love it, Sony the lying SOB's are caught out again. It makes me laugh when the Sony shitheads stick up for them, after all the lies Sony have fed them. MSoft have to put a nail in the PS3 coffin and I would love it, everybody would love it and they deserve it.

  • Dave52 #55 3 years ago

    @Negotiator...

    Why do they deserve it...?

  • bioreit #56 3 years ago

    @ Rich72

    Absolutely, but I personally see it as £150 for a BD player and £150 for a digital download of the latest in one of my top five series of games of all time. For me, that's worth it, especially when you throw in all the other stuff - like the games. Although I must say I'm really starting to hate the PSN store for not having a "list all demos" option, as well as actually having to install the bloody things once I've downloaded them!

    I think it's severely restricting the chances of me finding games I'm likely to enjoy playing, simply because I end up getting bored and watch a Blu-Ray instead or play on the 360.

  • teabagger #57 3 years ago

    Negotiator. You are clearly an idiot. Ever think that, regardless of whether you own/like 'console X', it actually benefits you by creating competition within the industry. Competition drives innovation, including that which you see in your preferred/owned 'console Y'.

    Oh wait, of course not! That requires the ability to think!

    (edit)

    don't bother with some fucktard reply, you're on my ignore list
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 17:08

  • Negotiator #58 3 years ago

    Dave52, because of all the bullshit this company have spouted since they entered the console market, thats why they deserve it.

  • Dave52 #59 3 years ago

    Negotiator: "Dave52, because of all the bullshit this company have spouted since they entered the console market, thats why they deserve it"

    Since when did Microsoft become the bastians of truth and justice...? Agree with teabagger - competition is good...

  • Petulant_Radish #60 3 years ago

    @ Stoomonster

    But that silly article seemingly completely disregards any possibility of Microsoft releasing another xbox, which is very unlikely given the money they have invested in eating into Sony’s old market share.

  • Negotiator #61 3 years ago

    Teabagger, so Sony haven't lied with every breath that they could muster, since the PS3 was announced, you tell me?

  • onyxbox #62 3 years ago

    How many of those 1 million consoles are broken?

    All of them and then some.

    As far as my friends (real ones I see every day) with 360's go (10 people)... 100% failure rate.

  • bioreit #63 3 years ago

    @ Petulant_Radish and StooMonster

    "But that silly article seemingly completely disregards any possibility of Microsoft releasing another xbox, which is very unlikely given the money they have invested in eating into Sony’s old market share."

    Quite. It also states that Microsoft are losing money hand over fist with the 360, whereas they've been making profit for some time now. In fact, I thought it was Sony who was losing money with the PS3, with the other divisions propping up SCE and Sony Ericsson?

    It's also The Inquirer , so about as trustworthy as Bernard Madoff.

  • Thunderbolt #64 3 years ago

    StooMonster,

    Interesting article - what starts as a Sony bashing piece then becomes prophetic suggesting that the PS4 will rise phoenix-like from the ashes of the console wars.

    If anything the way Sony are going I would think either the PS4 will be wii-like - ie cheap as chips to make and easier to develop for or they will focus on the new PSP 2 entirely.

  • anomagnus #65 3 years ago

    see, dan had a very good point

    For ten years, the PS destroyed everything in its path. And yet here they are, slugging it with the new kid on the block for second place.

    MS, i;m sure would LOVE to be number one, but thats the Wii's spot right now. As it is, MS seem to have the lead in the core gamer market, the market which actually counts. You think the latest and greatest games are being driven to satisfy chimps playing wii sports with their trendy mates after a night out? Are they fuck!

    More to the point, theres no guarantee that the casual gaming public will buy Nintendo's next machine. I mean, it didn't work for Sony, did it? However, MS is probably assured that the vast majoirty of xbox users will buy the next MS machine. A machine which is very likely to be out before PS4, and well before Sony can recoup its losses in its big, black box of doom.

    In the long run, the MS haters can bitch and moan all the want, but as a long term war, MS is smashing its main rival Sony. It was outgunned in every regards, and yet here we are, Sony is trailing by a million machines, in the middle of an economic downturn.

    I have to laugh at the comment by the fool that said it could turn around in a month. IN THIS CLIMATE?!?!?!? LIKE FUCK could a million consoles be sold in a month.

    All MS have to do, is hold on to second place, and wait for the next generation, because i have no faith in Nintendo being this lucky ever again.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 17:25

  • anomagnus #66 3 years ago

    ohhh, double post!
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 17:22

  • juuken #67 3 years ago

    Raajaa: You must live a sad life because I have a lot of games for my PS3 and I enjoy every one of them.

    Negotiator: You're bitching about Sony lying. Has Microsoft ever been innocent? Has Nintendo been innocent? Companies lie. Welcome to the real world.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 17:23

  • anomagnus #68 3 years ago

    @stoo monster

    that article was shit. it was actual shit, condensed into words, pushed onto a virtual page made of shit

    so, MS wont make a new machine cause its losing money, but sony, who is still losing money will make a new machine?

    this si despite the fact that the Xbox is closer to break even than the PS3?

    blurg

  • QotSAfan #69 3 years ago

    "Teabagger, so Sony haven't lied with every breath that they could muster, since the PS3 was announced, you tell me?"

    Who cares? They are a mega corporation. So are Microsoft who are even worse. Look at windows, their absurd attempts at monopolising coding, their death grip on the PC market or the fact they released a shoddy piece of overheating shit. Also, charging for online is a fucking disgrace.

  • Weezer #70 3 years ago

    Apologie said: "360 is a toy, Ps3 is a media center and the most inovative piece of entertainment hardware you can buy right now... well, it only depends on your wallet and good taste... Xbox have nothing to offer anymore and as soon as the PS3 drops the price (early next year) its game over for Microsoft especially in Europe."

    Just how many inaccurate statements can you make in a single sentence! Hilarious.

  • onyxbox #71 3 years ago

    Since when did Microsoft become the bastians of truth and justice...?

    MS have seriously bullshitted their way through the last 2 year of RRoD and Disc failures and the plethora of other problems the system has.

    I'm on my 4th 360 now (2 of which had an October 2008 manufacture date), the games are good but MS definitely have been the biggest bunch of lying b*stards this gen... no question.

    Sony just under delivered on their promises... that to me isn't even in the same league as how MS swept everything under the carpet for years... denied any problems... and stroke the gaming press into some kind of euphoric orgasm of no return about all things 360.

    Like someone else pointed out in here, the real winners are us. just shell out for both, enjoy ALL the exclusives and stop obsessing about monthly sales figures.

    After all the Wii is making a mockery of both MS and Sony.

  • lennon #72 3 years ago

    I found a glaring problem with the article in the Inquirer. It states "However Sony are a bit cleverer than that."

    Now I dont know about you but it seems to me Sony mistake being arrogant for being clever. Anyway all in all I always felt that these console wars "silly term" would be about two things evening out the market share between sony and MS and MS changing the paradigm (I hope that term works :)) to focus on games sold rather than consoles sold. Either way who cares the price of a 360 is next to nothing and it seems people are jumping in so in the new year Sony will surely have to respond and that can only be good for us all.

    Tesco were heavily discounting 360 games at the weekend so I bought a load I had been considering. My wallet wasnt happy but I sure was :)

  • StooMonster #73 3 years ago

    I just asked if anyone had seen it!

    The article does make a few mad assumptions, but he is attempting to guess why Sony won't drop the price of the PS3 to compete head-to-head with Microsoft when retail price is a key factor in market-share.

    Key thing to remember kids ... no company has ever "won" three consecutive generations of console market-share.

  • Rich72 #74 3 years ago

    how long has little big planet been out and why is it now £17.99 on amazon?

  • metalnut #75 3 years ago

    All big companies are lying, double-dealing bastards. MS, Sony, Nintendo - all of them. If you somehow think one of them is 'the saviour' or 'on your side', well done for being thoroughly fooled. They all just want your money ffs, and will saying absolutely anything they can get away with to access it.

    Forget your silly gaming tribes. Forget what any of the companys tell you about what's going to happen in the next year, or two years, or whatever. Look at what's on the shelf RIGHT NOW, for how much money, and decide which one is worth your time. Then shut up and enjoy it, or trade it in for something else.

    "only 1m in it after a year plus head start, not so good. that gap could be closed in a month. "

    Perhaps in purple unicorn fantasy land, yes. But in the real world each of the PS3 and 360 have sold 6- 7m over a period of 2-3 years, I'll let you do the math.

  • StooMonster #76 3 years ago

    (Must get back to work) Bloomberg tells me that:

    Credit Suisse reduced its rating on Sony to "underperform" from "neutral" (that's very bad), Deutsche Bank AG cut its recommendation yesterday to "hold" from "buy" (that's just bad).

    5.9% knocked off share price and therefore market-cap. Ouch, that's got to hurt.

  • bioreit #77 3 years ago

    @ StooMonster

    "(Must get back to work) Bloomberg tells me that:

    Credit Suisse reduced its rating on Sony to "underperform" from "neutral" (that's very bad), Deutsche Bank AG cut its recommendation yesterday to "hold" from "buy" (that's just bad).

    5.9% knocked off share price and therefore market-cap. Ouch, that's got to hurt."

    Eep. That's a hefty knock. Mind you, folk were saying that the 8000 permanent workers to be let go wasn't anything like enough. I'll have a word with my brother-in-law about the change in recommendation for Sony - he's a director at Deutsche, so he might have some extra info as to precisely why they did it.

  • Apologie #78 3 years ago

    Weezer

    your just a sad fanboy who can accept the truth... PS3 is growing in user base, exclusives and on-line features and as soon as the price drops, there will be millions flying out of the shelves... right now given what you pay for (on-line for free, hard disk included, AAA exclusives, BluRay, good reliability (altought reliability as i can see it's not a very important issue nowday's, at least for some of us), nice pack's etc..) its the best quality/price product you can buy... next year, even with the economic crysis that benefits both WII and the Xbox, we will see the PS3 dominating, no doubt... as soon as they start to sell the console for 299 Euros, its game over for Microsoft.
    Edited by 2 at 16/12/08 @ 18:00

  • KayJay #79 3 years ago

    An additional 1 Million Chavs and Pikeys on Live... :-)

    /great

  • bioreit #80 3 years ago

    "An additional 1 Million Chavs and Pikeys on Live... :-)

    /great "

    It's why I have all non-friends muted. And what with the 8-party system, it's even more of a moot (mute - heh) point.

    Although the party system has been a tad on the flaky side lately - although that may be down to one my friend's having his local exchange drilled through....

  • jonsaan #81 3 years ago

    You are all fucking peasants. 300 quid is not massively expensive. ;)

  • el_pollo_diablo #82 3 years ago

    I've said it before and I'll say it again:

    Who gives a shit?

  • metalnut #83 3 years ago

    "You are all fucking peasants. 300 quid is not massively expensive. ;) "

    Peasants that can do math. 300 - 165 = 135 quid worth of 'other stuff' you can buy. Stuff is good :)

  • jonsaan #84 3 years ago

    Like a wireless adaptor you mean? Or maybe a battery charger? When all's said and done, if you want full features, they are the same price.

  • lockload #85 3 years ago

    "Who knows who to believe these days. Each company can exploit the fluctuating definition of 'Europe' to their own ends. "

    You do understand that GfK Chart-Track is an idependent body?

  • Ryze #86 3 years ago

    Comical Apololol
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 18:47

  • Darren #87 3 years ago

    Only 1 million... that's not very impressive considering the Xbox 360 has always been a lot cheaper than the PS3 and has been on sale a year longer! :?

  • drumbaby #88 3 years ago

    The PS3 hardware is amazing, the games are just as good, and are getting better all the time. Next year's exclusives are to die for. I cannot believe just how good Unchartered 2, Killzone 2 and God of War 3 look.

    But it's expensive. Yep, it's got Blu-Ray, and Blu-ray utterly rocks on a HDTV, but people are strapped for cash atm, and the 360, while scandalously unreliable, is cheap as chips.

    Sony have to drop the price to stoke the fires, simple as that.

  • Ryze #89 3 years ago

    @drumbaby

    '...Blu-ray utterly rocks on a HDTV, but people are strapped for cash atm, and the 360, while scandalously unreliable up until last October when the Falcon chipset was released, is cheap as chips...

    Fixed!

  • Darren #90 3 years ago

    @drumbaby - I love my PS3 and agree it's a great piece of kit but weird as this may sound I never think of it as a games console, rather a home media entertainment centre that just happens to play games. I guess the fact that I use it more for watching Blu-ray movies and listening to music than playing games on is the reason for that.

    As a multiformat gamer though I buy most of my games for the Xbox 360, including multiformat games as they tend to be better IMO, but even so the Xbox 360 does seem like a cheap, plastic toy next to my PS3. I mean the PS3 hardware itself just oozes quality I think unlike my Xbox 360... my SIXTH Xbox 360 I might add!!! ;)

  • Darren #91 3 years ago

    @trebell - Yeah true but the Xbox 360 by all rights should have utterly annihilated the PS3 since it has a larger, better collection of games and is far cheaper. I can't help wondering how much damage has been done by its poor reliability record as I know lots of people who refuse to buy an Xbox 360 because of that.

    The Xbox 360 should, by rights, be this generation's PS2 yet it isn't, that honour belongs undeservedly IMO to the machine with arguably the poorest selection of games in terms of overall quality this generation: the Wii (and, yes, I do own that machine as well). How odd.

  • Collymilad #92 3 years ago

    "360 is a toy, Ps3 is a media center and the most inovative piece of entertainment hardware you can buy right now... well, it only depends on your wallet and good taste... Xbox have nothing to offer anymore and as soon as the PS3 drops the price (early next year) its game over for Microsoft especially in Europe.

    @You - right, i am calmly asking you, right now - to tell me a REAL reason, not a politicians answer ok?

    Please tell me one thing the PS3 can do as a media center except blu-ray that the 360 can't?

    We've been hearing this "MS is running out of steam argument" for the past year now. Remember at the end of 2007, apparently MS was dead in 2008 - yet here we are and Sony are still alternating between barely catching up and actually losing MORE sales.

    I'd also like you to explain to me what's innovative about the PS3 (please do not say either of the HOME's) and also what makes it NOT a toy, when compared to the 360?

  • NotSoSlim #93 3 years ago

    @ trebell

    God Of War is over a year away so until later in 09 will be best to judge imo

  • VMerken #94 3 years ago

    I wonder if the recent price drop has anything to do with this...

  • 200k #95 3 years ago

    @Confounder
    Platformers: Banjo Kazooie & Braid (PS3 is lacking in this genre too, LBP and Ratchet being the big two)
    Action Adventures: Fable 2, Gears, Tomb Raider, GTA4 + DLC
    RPGS; Fallout, Oblivion, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey, Infinite Undiscovery, Mass Effect, Blue Dragon (360 is generational champ as far as rpgs go surely?)
    ...plus more racing games (all the multiplatform ones plus PGR3&4, Forza &, Race Pro), sports games and of course, FPS.

    Sorry to resort to lists but your post is just factually wrong. PS3 does have a great lineup including some quality exclusives but it's hard to argue it beats the 360s, let alone matches it, in any genre. Unless you care to enlighten me what genres the PS3 has a better line up in?
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 19:22

  • Xerx3s #96 3 years ago

    "exclusives??? you gotta be kidding me... have you seen the amount of top quality titles recently released for the PS3?? have you seen the titles coming out in 2009??? i dont want to bring a list in here ;p

    seriously, PS3 will crush the Xbox360 in short time... mark my words. Price drop, exclusives, home, BluRay... = big success."

    Teeheee! So easy to bait. Truly entertaining.

  • ochinembiri #97 3 years ago

    I dont know why people always want to add the cost of the wireless adapter to the cost of the xbox. I have an xbox and am happy using a wired connection as its more reliable and up to 10x faster than a wireless connection. I admit that the ps3 is a better gadget overall, but £299 is a lot especially when other consoles cost £170. The true fanboys and serious gamers bought their consoles when they had just been released at ridiculous prices and now the market that the consoles are fighting for are the casual gamer who are not bothered about MGS4 being better than GOW2 or Fable II being the GOTY. The reason why the wii is in the lead is in part largely due to its lower price from the beginning.

  • des #98 3 years ago

    "Sony declined to comment on the GfK Chart-Track figures"

    No spin...no fun

  • Dizzy #99 3 years ago

    Hmmm.. Vorlon seems to be back from my ignore list. New account?

  • keety #100 3 years ago

    appologie

    "your just a sad fanboy who can accept the truth... PS3 is growing in user base, "

    Correct, but it's growing at a lsower rate than the 360.

    "exclusives and on-line features and as soon as the price drops, there will be millions flying out of the shelves... right now given what you pay for (on-line for free, hard disk included, AAA exclusives, BluRay, good reliability (altought reliability as i can see it's not a very important issue nowday's, at least for some of us), nice pack's etc..) "

    There won't be a price drop in the near future. AAA exclusives.. LBP and.....possibly uncharted... BLuRay is what's keeping the price high. If they hadn't chucked that in they would have shifted it for a lot less and shifted more.

    "its the best quality/price product you can buy... next year, even with the economic crysis that benefits both WII and the Xbox, we will see the PS3 dominating, no doubt... as soon as they start to sell the console for 299 Euros, its game over for Microsoft. "

    Err it is under 299 Euros....

    I thought this year was the year of the PS3.. are you now saying it's next year??

  • Katsumoto #101 3 years ago

    Do we really care? As long as both systems still get great games made for them... ?

    We should only start to care about these sales figures if it means a DREAMCAST situation is upon us, which we all agree it probably isn't.

  • Diomedes #102 3 years ago

    So for october and november sales have been pretty even .....someone tell that to the vgchartz guys that put the 360 heavily outselling the PS3 those two last months.

  • #103 3 years ago

    Sad...people arguing over an entertainment device. Get both and enjoy it all.

  • ronuds #104 3 years ago

    Why do people bother arguing with apolol anymore? It's like trying to have a conversation with the crazy guy who mumbles to himself in the street.

    Anyhow, these are good figures for MS. France and Germany both HATE MS and the 360, and MS is likely losing there already to the PS3, so to still have a 1m lead considering that is pretty solid. They must be pretty far ahead in the UK, is my guess. Sony claimed a ways back that they'd have the 360 beaten in the UK by 7/08, so looks like they had to push those plans back a bit.

    Funny that Sony has no comment when they sure were quick to say something a couple weeks ago about their lead. Now that the real figures are out, what could they say?

  • ronuds #105 3 years ago

    And stop quoting vgchartz! They know NO-THING! They said themselves that their figures were guesstimates.

  • DjFlex52 #106 3 years ago

    So for october and november sales have been pretty even .....someone tell that to the vgchartz guys that put the 360 heavily outselling the PS3 those two last months.

    @Diomedes

    Forget about vgchartz. The NPD says PS3 sold 378,000 consoles and the 360 sold 836,000 in November 2008. That's over 450,000 more sold for 360. So what damage control do you have for the PS3 now?

    edit: In October 2008, NPD declared there was 371,000 360s sold and 190,000 PS3s sold.

    Total 360 for Oct & Nov in NA = 1,207,000
    Total PS3 for Oct & Nov in NA = 568,000
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 21:12

  • ronuds #107 3 years ago

    "While you mumble to yourself on internet forums about how important it is to you that brand A sells more than brand B, because it seems to make your life a little better."

    How can you act so smug like you're above the topic, yet comment in here anyway? And it appears I am not mumbling to myself seeing as you've read and commented on my post!

    I also forgot to apologize for being interested in sales. How very petty of me to take interest in something that you're not particularly interested in. I bow to your maturity.

    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 21:17

  • kaosridder #108 3 years ago

    This place seems very well suited and more than ready for my tinfoilhat-shop.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 21:21

  • StooMonster #109 3 years ago

    Why do some people have a downer on VGChartz?

    They use a similar panel analysis techniquel to NPD but worldwide rather than US only; NPD's figures aren't super accurate you know they are guestimates too, both of these are providers use a similar approach to TV ratings.

    VGChartz website says that their numbers are used by "Fortune, Business 2.0, Forbes, The Telegraph, The Guardian, New York Times, Süddeutsche Zeitung, Guinness Book of World Records and the New York Post to name but a few" and I've also seen them used on industry sites such as GamesIndustry.biz and mcvuk.com

    So if VGChartz are good enough for the press, Guinness Book of World Records, and industry journals ... why aren't they good enough for certain forum posters?

    It's not related to what their figures state is it?

  • ronuds #110 3 years ago

    @ StooMonster

    VG's estimates for console sales are "relatively" accurate, but it doesn't take a genius to make a guesstimate these days. I wouldn't put much stock in them, though. They basically take sales from a few shops and then multiply that by "x" to come up with their numbers...I think they employ mostly teenagers to do their "studies." Their game sales estimates are horrible and shouldn't even be attempted.

    Just wait for official numbers and you'll be much better off. Or do a comparison of their estimates for a month against actual numbers. Sometimes they're close, sometimes they're not. Their sales figures for around the world are only as accurate as the information provided to all of us, and then they "estimate" the rest based on known shipped or sell-through figures.

  • shotgun44 #111 3 years ago

    Xbox sellling more than the PS3. With the price drop... colour me shocked. Was this outcome not obvious? And is there really a need for this many posts on every single story that mentions both consoles!?

  • shotgun44 #112 3 years ago

    Also Portsmouth FC FTW

  • Rangerwave #113 3 years ago

    I just love seeing the Sony apologists out in full force, they seem to be dominating this discussion actually.

  • StooMonster #114 3 years ago

    @ ronuds

    If you're not into statistical analysis, Google or Wiki "panel analysis" or "panel data" for a brief explanation. As I said, VGChartz panel analysis is similar to NPD's ... and their technique is similar to how TV ratings have been calculated since the 1950s (i.e. small "representative" sample and scale up).

    NPD are only "official" because they have been doing it for longer and charge lots of money for their data, they probably use interns rather "teenagers" to phone the retailers to get the data, although I believe some retailers give them point-of-sale data but that won't make their panel analysis much more accurate; and they are of limited utility because they are limited to US retail only.

    The general press and games industry press seem to think VGChartz are okay; and I've seen publishers cite their figures too, so they can't be that bad. Certainly good enough for the use of armchair/desktop pundits pontificating on the relative market-share of the participants of the multi-billion dollar games industry.

  • ronuds #115 3 years ago

    @ StooMonster

    Are you certain NPD doesn't get most data from the US? I thought all outlets but Wal-Mart reported their figures to them, so it would seem they would end up with a much more accurate figure than VG could ever manage. Not 100% certain, but that was my understanding of how it works.

    The problem is that there are only a couple agencies even interested in keeping these types of figures, so no matter if you're 100% accurate or not, any number seems like a good one to outsiders! I tried going by VG a while back, though, and was bitten by it - so I don't take them at all seriously anymore.

  • StooMonster #116 3 years ago

    @ retibra

    Who "officially recognized" them? What does that actually mean?

    VGChartz may be newer and have a different approach, but their figures never seem far off the ones provided by market research companies -- and they are good enough for the international press, trade publications, and industry participants (i.e. publishers and developers) ...

    ... but they are still not good enough for discussion forum? :)

  • StooMonster #117 3 years ago

    @ ronuds

    Last time I checked NPD only had retail data and no online sales or download; and aren't Wal-Mart the largest retailer of games in US?

    I am not saying VGChartz are perfect, but it just amazes me that they get slammed on forums such as this one yet so many other people such as the press etc are happy to use their data and figures. :)

    [Edit to add Wal-mart comment]
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/08 @ 22:08

  • Stu #118 3 years ago

    On an aside, I don't know if you're all seeing the same 'I'm a PC' advert as I'm seeing ('The Tron Guy'), but nothing would make me want to buy a PC less than being associated with people like that...

  • ronuds #119 3 years ago

    @ Stoo

    Not sure about Wal-Mart being the largest seller of gaming supplies. I'd think that crown would go to either Gamestop or Best Buy. NPD estimates their figures, though.

    I think the reason VG gets slammed is because they have in the past been horribly inaccurate. As I said, I was quoting them to people once, thinking I was cool or something, as they were the only source predicting the 360 was doubling sales of the PS3. Turns out it was the 1st month the PS3 beat the 360! After that I decided to wait on NPD, Charttrack, etc. O_o

  • JackB #120 3 years ago

    Take away Sony's dominant brand and market position from the previous two generations and they'd have been crushed by now. Only the RROD problem saved them.

    If both Sony and Microsoft had have started this generation with the same market share, brand and customer loyalty then it would have been a knockout by Microsoft in the 1st round.

    Next generation Sony won't get a free pass. The rest of this generation they'll be struggling to lower prices, but each time they do Microsoft will lower prices and/or throw money at the problem. Sony's cost of manufacturer are just flat out higher than Microsoft's. Tough position.

  • StooMonster #121 3 years ago

    @ dobbie

    Fine ... you hates them, and some site bans hammers people for citing them ... oohhh they must be wrong then!

    I've seen VGChartz quoted in mainstream press in UK and US, as well as the gamesindustry.biz and other industry rags, even Eurogamer.net uses their figures. Can they really be that bad? Or are you commenting on the quality of journalists? ;)

    I completely agree with you about getting the "representative" right, my opinion (which you'll note that I haven't stated yet) is that they are potentially directionally correct and therefore not 100% accurate, it is my view that NPD and ChartTrack are better ... but they are not perfect either. To "win" an argument with one over t'other is a hollow victory in my books. :)

  • makeamazing #122 3 years ago

    Sony know they are going to have a bad Xmas, its pretty apparently from the lack of PR stuff coming from them for a start... with the cheap Xbox (which I will think will come back to bite MS on the butt)..they know they are going to take a PR/Sales hit...

    But you know what, if Sony can stay in business and drop the price of the PS3 early next year, I still think there is a good chance they will begin to eat in to MS's lead quite quickly. There are quite a few potentially strong games for PS3 next year, and the RROD for MS really is a massive problem and will never truely go away (the word Scoda or Lada reminds me of lack of quality..even after all these years). I really think is MS had their act together when they launched they really could have been where the Wii is... but rush job opened it up for the Wii.

    Interesting times for sure!

  • MasterNameless #123 3 years ago

    Apologie, I see you're back, and still a dick. Even though I don't like petty insults, it's kind of more descriptive in your case - not in the literal sense of course, that wouldn't make sense. I thought you said you were leaving the site for good? What happened? Really, I'd like to know.

  • Diomedes #124 3 years ago

    Djflex92


    We were speaking about European numbers ,no US ones.We all know november has been quite bad for the PS3 there compared to the other two consoles.

    But in Europe the official source is GFK ,and they are saying sales for october and november are alike for both consoles.....but vgchartz is putting the 360 ahead by nearly 2-1.I pointed it out in their forums and got banned by one of the (wii) fanboys they have as mods .

  • rommy667 #125 3 years ago

    Well i still say spectrum is better than c64 and that geen screen thingy..............

  • Gormless #126 3 years ago

    Who gives a flying fuck, i have a PS3 and i am happy with so bollocks to the lot of you.

  • Lt_Reaper55729 #127 3 years ago

    HA!

  • Hypnopedia #128 3 years ago

    Just to share a couple of thoughts:-

    RROD IS a pain in the butt, initially handled horrendously by MS, but then they curried favour with the 3 year guarantee extension - I've just had a brand new Oct 2008 console delivered to me within a week replacing my Oct 2005 360, along with a Free Month's Gold Live subscription; it took one free phonecall, a spare cardboard box and the cost of a metre or 2 of sellotape and one label printout. Can't complain with that.

    Just like most electronics companies, Sony are taking a real hammering at the moment; Sony Ericsson reported record losses, sales of LCD's are massively down and it has more than halved it's profit forecast for next year - and this following on from the year it lost more than £2 Billion because of the PS3. Also a pain in the ass for Sony is the Yen's increasing strength, further squeezing profits (so much so that prices of TV's, DVD's etc are actually due to increase).

    People are really, MASSIVELY under estimating this coming recession and the effect it will have on the average family and ergo companies supplying expensive non essential items. electrical or otherwise. With all the uncertainty and huge debt many people have found themselves in, I'm sure a £300 Console/Blu-Ray player is not top of their shopping list - a Wii or 360 will do for now to compliment the family DVD player that can see a further year or so's use.

    Now if demand is down, production will be reduced, so when a PS3 45nm chipset comes onto the market I would not be so sure of big price cuts (especially as this will be post Xmas "Credit Card Bill time" Jan-Feb-Mar), simple economies of scale and all....

    The people on here saying £300 is not a lot of money are either too young to remember the last recession (negative equity and all), are convinced their job is totally secure, or live at home. In all but the last case you're lucky...

  • StooMonster #129 3 years ago

    @ Diomedes

    This thread has the worst use and overuse of the word "official" I've seen in a while. The preeminent provider of game sales data in the UK is Chart-Track, which GfK bought a large stake of in July 2008, and for September through November they showed 360 outselling PS3 by at least 2 to 1 and sometime up to 3 to 1 -- plenty of news articles on games sites.

    UK is the largest market in Europe, and measured on its own is the third largest market in the world after Japan and USA; according to ELSPA the UK also has the most mature players in Europe with average age being 33, but I digress.

    In regard to November, GfK-ChartTrack data suggests that the 360 outsold the PS3 “across the entire region and in particular has seen significant gains in markets like France, Spain and Italy, where it has been outselling PlayStation 3 week after week.” EDGE [link url=http://www.edge-online.com/news/microso ft-details-biggest-euro-month-ever
    ]http://ww w.edge-online.com/news/microsof...[/link]

    "[360] sales are up 32 per cent and PlayStation 3 sales are down eight per cent," confirmed Chart-Track's Chris Poole. GAMESINDUSTRY.BIZ [link url=http://www.gamesindust ry.biz/articles/xbox-360-sales-up-32-per-cent-following-uk-p rice-cut
    ]http://ww w.gamesindustry.biz/articles/xb...[/link]

    So where do you get that GfK says that 360 and PS3 were head-to-head in Europe since the 360 price drop?

  • AusFreelancer #130 3 years ago

    HAHAHAHAHA!!! 1mill lead....is that all.....surely 2million 360s have RROD'd is that factored in? Just by reading this site , you'd think the lead would be 40 to 1. Guess the console crowd make-up round here is an is disproportionate to the real world's.

  • des #131 3 years ago

    So Sony empire is crumbling in Europe,oh wait Nintendo took that crown years ago...lol

  • GamerG #132 3 years ago

    Well done MS, your business strategy has seen you displace the playstation brand in Europe into 3rd place!!!

    Completely inconceivable at the start of the generation

    Sony's losses are going to get bigger and bigger.

    Kudos to EG for cutting through the PR crap and telling it as it is, hope you dont get into trouble!
    Edited by 1 at 17/12/08 @ 07:14

  • DanWhitehead #133 3 years ago

    VGChartz may be newer and have a different approach, but their figures never seem far off the ones provided by market research companies

    That's because they retroactively adjust their figures when more reliable data is released by professional retail analysts.

  • anomagnus #134 3 years ago

    everyone keeps talking about price cuts

    sony just had its share guidance downgraded because of under performing sales

    they haven't broke even on PS3

    And now you think they're going to slash prices on their lead home entertainment product

    the fact is, only a 50% price cut is going to encourage people to buy it in this climate, and sony aren't going to do that, because it'll REEK of failure

    they've painted themselves into a box with that PoS3 that they now cant get of

    it stuns me that fools like apologie will run out and defend Sony, talking about what bastards MS are, when Sony, sold a sub standard, feature reduced machine here for twice the price of any other territory.

  • metalnut #135 3 years ago

    ""HAHAHAHAHA!!! 1mill lead....is that all....."

    Rather amusing how a 1m lead is now viewed by some as 'not very much', but when PS3 overtook 360 earlier in 08 and were leading in Europe by no more than around 300,000, Europe was being lauded by the faithful as "Sony's heartland".

    Those with bizarre unshakable console allegiances will tell themselves all sorts of things to make themselves feel warm & secure.

  • eleven #136 3 years ago

    Is that all?

    It's been out a year longer

  • Ainigma #137 3 years ago

    Sorry if i'm stating the obvious, but wouldn't Microsoft and everybody else expect the 360 to be leading in europe after being on sale for 15 months longer than the PS3?

    Headlines like this are misleading, it was the same when the 360 outsold the PS3 in Japan for 3 or 4 weeks, in real terms this didn't make a blind bit of difference, as following this, when the PS3 outsold the 360 again, the margin was more than the total amount the 360 sold during those weeks!

    Personally, as a gamer, I don't care who's winning, all I want is great games, great exclusive games! as long as they both sale enough units to keep this up we should all be happy!
    Edited by 1 at 17/12/08 @ 11:29

  • metalnut #138 3 years ago

    "Sorry if i'm stating the obvious, but wouldn't Microsoft and everybody else expect the 360 to be leading in europe after being on sale for 15 months longer than the PS3?"

    Not when mainland Europe (France, Germany, Spain, Italy especially) have been wedded to the Playstation brand. The US and UK are far less brand conscious when it comes to consoles, maybe because console gaming has been big for decades well before Sony entered the market. In mainland Europe, consoles = Playstation in the general public mindset. PC gaming is also far more popular. Most of mainland Europe held out for the PS3 because of the brand and ignored the 360's early release.

    It's worth noting that the 1m lead is still mostly because of the UK, where 360 has a 1.5m-ish lead over PS3 just on its own (which represents almost a 2:1 ratio). Mainland Europe was outweighing that previously, but now it's not anymore. Still, if you exclude the UK the PS3 is doing better than 360 in Europe. But the UK is also the largest and most mature single gaming market in Europe. Make of that what you will.

  • Ainigma #139 3 years ago

    "Not when mainland Europe (France, Germany, Spain, Italy especially) have been wedded to the Playstation brand. The US and UK are far less brand conscious when it comes to consoles, maybe because console gaming has been big for decades well before Sony entered the market"

    I agree to some extent, but you could argue playstation is responsible for making the industry what it is today, the Playstation made gaming 'cool' and it did for consoles what Hoover done for Vacum cleaners. Don't get me wrong, i'm no fanboy, i never owned the original playstation, i had the saturn, but when that was released it didn't have nearly the same impact...

    Even so, sales figures are going to change based on many different things, price is expecially important to people at the moment, and there are many people waiting for the big PS3 exclusives beyond MGS4.

    I think competition in the market place is important, this will give us all better games, and great games are far more important than sales figures.
    Edited by 2 at 17/12/08 @ 11:59

  • LHH #140 3 years ago

    Realistically Sony has the engineering knowhow and bandwidth to do this

    Not for Home they don't lulz

  • onyxbox #141 3 years ago

    It is the cheapest home console on the market (appart from PS2 i think) and it is the most advertised, it's not rocket science.

    If anything taking those two factors into account I'd have expected better sales... but whether MS want to admit it or not... the Wii is killing their efforts.

  • metalnut #142 3 years ago

    "I agree to some extent, but you could argue playstation is responsible for making the industry what it is today, the Playstation made gaming 'cool' and it did for consoles what Hoover done for Vacum cleaners. "

    If you're under 25 maybe. I agree that PS shook things up in the late 90's, but so did every generation of home gaming platform - and each iteration more people got involved. That's as much to do with pop culture, the increasing average age of gamers, and the general march of technology as any individual company's efforts. I wouldn't say Playstation was any more important in the grand scheme of things than Atari in their day, or Sinclair / Commodore, Nintendo, Sega at their height etc. Each successive generation that sells well brings in more punters - at the PS time it just made good business sense to market to teens / young adults rather than kids because the market was getting older. This time it's Nintendo's turn again with the Wii, responding to the over-emphasis perhaps on the mature over time. It's all cycles.

    The issue is that some environments are 'older' than others. Mainland Europe 'grew up' with Playstation in many ways - console gaming was never big there before that. The US and UK both have a longer tradition of gaming so remember that there were other revolutions before Sony came along, and will be others afterwards - so brand loyalty isn't such a pervasive force.

    Edit: yes, I'm a relatively 'mature' gamer. More than 25 years of gaming under my belt and counting. For the majority of that time, PS didn't exist ;)
    Edited by 2 at 17/12/08 @ 14:50

  • Ainigma #143 3 years ago

    "Edit: yes, I'm a relatively 'mature' gamer. More than 25 years of gaming under my belt and counting. For the majority of that time, PS didn't exist ;)"

    I thought so, nice to read something interesting in the comments, and something that makes sense rather than just sales figures!

    I don't think they even bother with Wii sales figures anymore, The Wii has opened the market to a new audience that the PS3 and 360 still don't really appeal too.



    Edited by 2 at 17/12/08 @ 15:04

  • DAN.E.B #144 3 years ago

    seriously, PS3 will crush the Xbox360 in short time... mark my words. Price drop, exclusives, home, BluRay... = big success.

    you have been saying the same shit since launch!

    wake up retard!

  • davisorle #145 3 years ago

    MUST READ!!!

    http://me gagames.com/news/html/console/c...

  • Calgon #146 3 years ago

    Ainigma 3 to 4 weeks? No try 7-8 weeks, see thats the Sony fanboy mentality not only do they convince themselves they know the future "it will be back to normal next week" but they also never bother to check the facts either when stating history. That is pretty significant for MS to beat PS3 in Japan at all let alone 7 weeks running.

    @ retibra: To be honest I'm fairly confident that dropping to an all 45nm chipset should allow for a complete redesign - probably a PS3-Slim of some kind. Realistically Sony has the engineering knowhow and bandwidth to do this, and given the current economy and the state of the market it should be their #1 priority.

    At the very least I'd expect to see a £199.99 PS3 by Easter at the latest.

    It would allow for a slimmer model maybe, but you have a hard drive in there and a blu-ray drive and PS3 has never been cool running(just has a good cooling solution) so I wouldnt expect anything like the PS2 redesign any time soon. I also dont think they are ready for 45nm yet(they havent even switched to 65nm have they? I sincerly doubt theyd just skip a whole step)... its certainly not as easy as just switching over and encountering nothing but improvements... it can bring its own problems too if not done properly, thats why I doubt they'd skip a step because it will be a learning process switching each chip over.

  • EmilioBuono #147 3 years ago

    come on,

    at the end of the day,
    the PS3 is the most superior and reliable console of all.

    end of.

  • Lotek #148 3 years ago

    To be honest, i couldn't really give a damn.