WOW raids nerfed for Lich King Comments by Oli Welsh

imo all raid content should have the option of running a 5 man version, I love the game but the fact because I can't find a decent guild to raid with around my free time means I miss out on probably 30%+ of the endgame content.

This stuff is happening on a beta server, which means it can change!

Like MMO-Champion notes: "The change isn't confirmed by Blizzard yet. We don't know if this change will be pushed live, and we don't know when it will happen but we might see this change shipped with Patch 3.0 before the release of the expansion"

Btw, the US WoW site is down, maybe information about the Echoes of Doom (name of next patch, see EU WoW site) is incoming!!

Interesting move by Blizzard however, have they considered how extremley easy PVE has become in the game world? For me the only challenge is in PVP and instances, resistance has made PVP too easy and this may have the same negative effect on instances. If you gimp every aspect of the game the sense of achievement is totally lost. I don't know about others but if you want me to commit 100 hours plus to instancing I need some sort of challenge. Difficulty shouldn't exclude people from play but inspire them to improve.

@ Mooks,

I dont play it anymore, but i stopped playing WoW because the end game PVE was stupidly insane.

Raiding and end game instances had become the most stupidly over mechanized and over engineered process ever encountered.

In order to succeed, you had to have the perfect set up gear wise, and this mythical group set up, with every character in perfect synergy.

Fine on paper, utterly unworkable in practice,especially when the game is supposed to be easy entry and non hard core, which is EXACTLY how blizzard position themselves, and still do, as the MMO for everyone.

You talk about your sense of achievement like the typical .5% of the MMO population that believe raids are only worth while when they are uber. Quite frankly, 95% of the mmo population of WoW is not hard core, and simply completing the dungeon would probably be achievement enough.

Blizzard are totally aware of how much they fucked the raiding game up. You only need to see the desperate cries for a tank, to see that tanks have abandoned the game. Aggro is a shambolic mechanic in WoW, with a rouge blasting by the tank by simply sneezing. Now, people will say, L2P noonb, but the point being that not every player will be familiar with the exact science of aggro management, and the truth is, NOR SHOULD THEY BE.

Quite frankly, ANY five man combination should be able to walk into a dungeon and finish it. A five man group of holy priests should be able to finish an instance, now admittedly, that's an extreme end, but blizzards pve content was gash, pure fucking gash at end game, utterly boring dungeons being run over and over, often taking an hour or more of my time, and for what? A single drop, with a 5-15% drop rate.

Dungeons should be a 25-30 minute blast of slightly above average strength mobs, scripted events and better loot. Wipes should only be a result of the most INCREDIBLE incompetence, not a simple bad pull, and open to any combination of party.

10 man raids, 30 - 45 mins tops, with slightly increased mechanics, requiring a tanking class, or tank equivalent.

25 man raids, controversial, but again, 45 minutes to 1 hour at most, with maybe the final, top raid being 1 hour 30 tops, quick blasts, easy to do, good lore, easy loot.

Blizzard now know this.

Having run Mt GUnabd in WAR, its how i basically expect my raids from now on

@anomagnus
"You talk about your sense of achievement like the typical .5% of the MMO population that believe raids are only worth while when they are uber. Quite frankly, 95% of the mmo population of WoW is not hard core, and simply completing the dungeon would probably be achievement enough."

+1 to this.

I no longer have the time or desire to spend 5 nights a week sitting there with 24 other people trying again and again to try to kill a boss that half of us simply aren't kitted for because we want to progress and then giving up disillusioned because we just can't do it (the fact that the GM was then demanding that we all kit ourselves up in heroics etc. "on our own time" caused me to quit the game for almost a year, "on our own time"? I mean, WTF? When the hell did this become a second job? Sorry, mini-rant.) .

I think allowing people to raid all raids as 10 or 25 man is a huge improvement and this easier curve will also be a massive improvement. Like you, I'm hoping the new dungeons won't simply be an attempt to cram as many groups of mobs as possible into an area to slow down the end-game steam-train.

For those truly hardcore (i.e. masochistic ;) ) players heroic raids would be a possibility.

Good, raiding was something i was looking forward to, then ding'd 70 only to be told i had to get better gear and be analy retentive in order to make it into the raid group...then I would have to endure 3hrs of whining and being bossed about! Sod that, 5 mans formed randomly ftw.

this game gets any more simple they will start gving you an official version of glider to raid for you.. i like the fact you have to work a bit to get past encounters if that goes so does the pve game which is all that stands between blizz and the rest of the world.
@ anomagnus - "25 man raids, controversial, but again, 45 minutes to 1 hour at most, with maybe the final, top raid being 1 hour 30 tops, quick blasts, easy to do, good lore, easy loot. "

u should maybe play some other game if you think 25 man raids should be 1 hour long, i dont think you have the time anymore bud for this pc shit.

@sneetch
(the fact that the GM was then demanding that we all kit ourselves up in heroics etc. "on our own time" caused me to quit the game for almost a year, "on our own time"? I mean, WTF? When the hell did this become a second job? Sorry, mini-rant.)

As a GM of a raiding guild, I totally understand what your GM was saying. Let me tell you why.

The game may just be a bit of fun for an hour or so one or two evenings a week for you. Of course, that's your call and far be it from me to tell you how to spend your free time. But, on the other hand, 25 people like you will never get far past T4. To put it bluntly, you were being boosted by other people in your guild who DID have the motivation (and maybe actually ENJOYED playing the game at a hardcore level) to gear themselves outside of raids. As someone with a traditional progression through endgame - gear up in normal instances, gear up in heroics, gear up from badges, gear up in kara, work through the many many 25 man wipes - I know that there is a pretty strong feeling of resentment when you spend months working your ass off on content, for some fresh 70 to turn up and expect his epics on the first run.

The fact is, the endgame at the moment either requires people to work at preparing themselves for raiding, or people who are willing to make up the difference for the slackers. I don't want the game to pushed any more towards the casual market - although this is the inevitable trend - because some people enjoy the challenge it presents when you DON'T get boosted through.

I'd love to be able to say at this point that maybe you should quit the game altogether - as it simply doesn't seem to be the game you want to play. God forbid a game require time and effort to produce rewards. Unfortunately, although that may have been the case up until now, it seems that Blizzard want your money more than mine.

You're missing the point.

He doesn't want it to be like that. Which is...fair enough.

No, I *see* the point, I just dont think that because some people want to get the rewards without the work, they should be able to - either by having the game changed so it suits them, at the expense of people who like it to be challenging, nor by having people who are willing to put the work in make up the difference for people who can't be bothered.

And thats... fair enough.