World of Goo Comments by John Walker
Squishing well.
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electrolite
05/01/09 @ 18:12
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Give me a shout when the backlash to the backlash starts.
P.S. It's brilliant. |
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@PameBoy:
"I've got it. I've had it for a few weeks. It's ok. The best thing I can say about it, at a stretch, is it's maybe this generation's Lemmings (but not as good, at that). I've sometimes had to spend upwards of an hour on one single puzzle, retrying and starting over again simply because I worked out how to do it an hour ago but can't pick up the one correct sodding Goo that I need among dozens wibbling around on the same spot in a puzzle that demands speed and precision where one wrong move at a crucial point will make it unsolvable." So.. basically.. you're saying it's not that good because you suck at it? |
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Out of interest MoGamer, how do you interpret the themes of the game?
It has been hinted at by 2D BOY that the game's story as a whole is about the process of making a game for a large corporation, since both developers had previously worked for big publishers, and went independent. Being of a Barthesian persuasion, I'm not one to believe this has any impact on the individual's experience when playing. However the themes I found unavoidably present were those I listed. Beauty is perhaps the most obvious. It says that one out loud, with a whole chapter about sacrificing the ugly Goo balls to rescue the beautiful ones. You mush ugly Goos to fill a hole so a beautiful one can proceed. You also crush a number of grey, faceless Goos to death in order to let a beautiful Goo roll across a red carpet. Both lead to exclusive pipes where only they can enter, and all those other Goo that helped cannot. This is what leads me to think about struggling under-classes. At many points this theme is raised, with certain Goos sacrificed or unwanted, and some, like the Sticky Goo, complete outcasts. The big business theme seems unavoidable too. That the game is eventually about destroying a Corporation that has been oppressively spying on you throughout... I didn't think any of the claims were especially far-fetched. And of course I recognised that many would not be interested in interpreting texts in a puzzle game, hence my following line which you gracelessly choose not to quote. So rather than fucking off, I'm more interested to hear your thoughts.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 05/01/09 @ 20:22
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I did much enjoy the demo. It was indeed a breath of fresh air and would encourage anyone to try this game. I can't comment on the "selecting goo" so called issue. It didn't seem to be a problem in chapter one but I can potentially see how it could be a slight issue if it was insanely hectic in later chapters. But because it is so fun to play anyway I'm not sure it would be much of a problem. I would buy for my wii, but I don't know how to get wiipoints. I suppose I should find out. I wonder what the £sterling equivalant is and whather to buy on steam is cheaper (£16.99 - which still feels a bit steep, I have a problem paying with that amount for a puzzler but should support cool games I guess.)
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@ smelly: let's not lower ourselves to playing dumb for the sake of getting in a cheap shot like that. You know perfectly well that's not what I said. Just because I don't like the game as much as you do doesn't mean we can't discuss it like sentient beings.
@ botherer: Please, please, for the sake of your credibility and all of our sanity, never use a word like 'Barthesian' in a discussion about little squeaky goo blobs again. I'm as much of a proponent of the 'games can be art' (NB 'can be', not 'are') argument as anyone, but let's keep a hold of our senses here. This is not a post-structuralist literature seminar. The reason I said earlier that your talk about the game's themes nearly made me snort coffee out my nose is that you're making it sound as if you think this is the most profound statement of proletarian independence since 'On the Waterfront'. It's nice that 2D Boy managed to work in a cute little meta-narrative about the game's development, but before you write the kind of stuff you just have, take a deep breath and remember that you are writing about sticking colourful blobs together on your computer. |
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"Just because I don't like the game as much as you do doesn't mean we can't discuss it like sentient beings. "
.. because you're crap at it.. you stated so in your post. It's the same as i tend not to be a fan of fps games (especially online ones like left 4 dead) as i suck at fps games (especially on analogue sticks) |
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"but before you write the kind of stuff you just have, take a deep breath and remember that you are writing about sticking colourful blobs together on your computer."
But why not? Do people not attach the same feeling of story to grandier fps games? Where all they're writing about is moving a cursor around the screen and pressing the trigger button when it's over someones head? |
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coolblue2000
05/01/09 @ 23:16
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@smelly "@secombe : Thats because the vast majority of the eurogamer comment community are xbox owners."
Or more likely their first game was Halo or Metal Gear Solid 2...... World of Goo is the best game I have played for a quite a while apart from COD4 online. It fully deserves the 10/10 score and hopefully if enough people buy it we will see more games of this quality coming to wiiware. It uses the wiimote exactly how every wii game should and that is for function over gimmick! Seriously the smaller developers producing for wiiware, psn and 360 community are putting the big boys to shame with their originality and implementation........ You could learn a lot from these small studios EA! |
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"@ botherer: Please, please, for the sake of your credibility and all of our sanity, never use a word like 'Barthesian' in a discussion about little squeaky goo blobs again. I'm as much of a proponent of the 'games can be art' (NB 'can be', not 'are') argument as anyone, but let's keep a hold of our senses here. This is not a post-structuralist literature seminar. The reason I said earlier that your talk about the game's themes nearly made me snort coffee out my nose is that you're making it sound as if you think this is the most profound statement of proletarian independence since 'On the Waterfront'. It's nice that 2D Boy managed to work in a cute little meta-narrative about the game's development, but before you write the kind of stuff you just have, take a deep breath and remember that you are writing about sticking colourful blobs together on your computer."
+1 |
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Hey if the reviewer feels it's a ten then more to him. Personally I thought it was a very good puzzle game but nothing magical. Lumines, now that is an awesome puzzle game that imo deservedly received a ten but really when you think about it WoG is impeccably designed within itself. I mean, really, how good exactly does a puzzle game have to be to deserve a ten? What is this idea in peoples' heads for the perfect ten puzzle game? I'm not sure I know. I wouldn't give it to WoG personally because it didn't engage me enough to the extent that a game like Lumines does, because the art style reminds me of something off newgrounds and because the controls can be a little frustrating sometimes (picking apart some of the gooballs from a tangled web of goo can be a little imprecise on the PC version anyway). All these references to things like the concept of beauty, the plight of the little man against a corporate machine are cute, but they're not profound because they don't really say anything new or complex. I mean it's impressive enough that they got these ideas in in the first place but it's not much more than a clever touch. And maybe it wasn't meant to be more than that.
I think partly makes the game less enjoyable to me than something like Lumines or indeed Peggle (which isn't even really a puzzle game) is that for me, Inever felt I was 'winning'. I always completed a challenge with the knowledge that I had to climb a steeper mountain later on. It's not like Lumines where you get an visual/audio cue of hitting a bonus or the most extreme example, Peggle's recitation of 'Ode to Joy' and a slow-mo zoom in to the precise moment of victory and glory. Maybe I'm just very shallow, but I want to feel awesome when playing a puzzle game when I do something cool. WoG doesn't have that imo, apart from a cry of 'yay' from the little goo balls. Anyway point is, great game, deserves all the success in the world and more and I hope 2D Boy continues to make games on equal standing in terms of quality as this. N.B. @ botherer "Um, half a sentence about the themes it hints at in a 1300 word review? Perhaps that's not quite so awful." Agreed. This was not the pretentious review some people here have built it up as. |
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All i know is.. that i bought this over christmas.. and played it more than any of the other games i have.. and enjoyed it more than any other game of last year.. And played it through to completion and felt proud at myself for doing so (much more than any other recent game which just holds your hand so there's no real challenge or feeling of accomplishment).
For me it's the best game of last year.. i'd give it a 10/10 too. |
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3william56
06/01/09 @ 07:35
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"Barthesian" huh? Working class struggles of a common family against an uncaring world?
Sh*t. I didn't realise it was a Simpsons game. World of DOH! |
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Jesus Smelly, you're in an argumentative mood today. Pameboy made some fine posts there and just cause you disagree with them you try rip him a new one. Relax, he doesn't like it as much as you and explained why in a respectful manner.
And do you really think the "story" in this game can compare to a story in a FPS if done right. Come on now, really? Whether you play Fps or not has nothing to do with it. |
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For what it's worth, I don't think there's anything wrong with analysing games in the way John (briefly) did in his review. The fact that some people shun an intelligent conversation about themes in games (and World of Goo UNDOUBTEDLY has "themes") just shows up the general immaturity that pervades our hobby.
No, I don't think about these things much while I'm building myself a big old tower 'o goo, but there's no reason to be afraid of looking a little deeper. |
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"For what it's worth, I don't think there's anything wrong with analysing games in the way John (briefly) did in his review. The fact that some people shun an intelligent conversation about themes in games (and World of Goo UNDOUBTEDLY has "themes") just shows up the general immaturity that pervades our hobby."
Agreed. "And do you really think the "story" in this game can compare to a story in a FPS if done right. Come on now, really? Whether you play Fps or not has nothing to do with it." You're not making an argument here. Why shouldn't the story in this game be able to have similar impact as the stories in FPS games? Neither genre is particularly well-suited to storytelling.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 06/01/09 @ 16:10
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@secombe
"Wii gets bad game = slated by the EG comment community Wii gets amazing game = slated by the EG comment community Love it, keep it up guys." "Slated"? Are you sure you were reading this same comments thread? A couple of people who either don't like it or think it's not that great is hardly the EG comment community slating the game, now is it? Anyway, this is fantastic on PC, I'm sure it's as good on the Wii (although selecting those goo-balls would be a bit harder with the Wii-remote than a mouse, I reckon). Oh noes, as I've not been unreservedly enthusiastic about every aspect of it I guess my comment has "slated" it too? |
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floppylobster
07/01/09 @ 11:11
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I really only feel it's worth about an 8 out of 10. I've played the first chapter through (just over an hour). It was quite good. But I'm not dying to play it again. Usually 10 games have me always wanting just one more go, or to play it again first thing the next morning. It's about as good as Bloom Blox, which is also very good, but not a 10.
Maybe the reviewers here are suffering from playing so much crap that when a half-decent game comes along they think it's better than it really is. Or maybe they really like games with interesting psychics engines? Or were they they just charmed by the game. Yoshi's Story (N64) charmed me. I love Yoshi’s Story, but I can still recognise it’s not 10. Don't think I'm hating on this. 8 is a good score and definitely worth a look. I just think the reviewer should recognise that it's not going to be for everyone. This is no Pac-man, Tetris or Doom. Those are 10/10 games. |
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no way is this a 10/10 game. a ten implies revolutionary, a game that will change the way we look at games. this is not that. i haven't sampled its multiplayer but so far its a good 8 from me. as a package it doesn't have much for its price and the controls can be fiddly, but the game is very accessible, the art direction is charming and the challenge is nearly always compelling. i'm loving it.
ps don't beat up a guy for seeing more in a game than just the obvious. it may not be revelatory in the grand scheme of things but in gaming it's inspiring. |
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LewisResolution
07/01/09 @ 16:17
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HolyJebus: "And do you really think the "story" in this game can compare to a story in a FPS if done right. Come on now, really?"
Yes. Absolutely. The subtle intrigue and underlying themes of World of Goo far outweigh those of any next-gen shooter that springs to mind. I mean, have you played it? I was surprised at the quality of its storytelling, too. But it's there. Try it - you might enjoy it. Games sit in a really unique position when it comes to storytelling. It's arguably the only medium that can tell a tale by evoking emotion, by allowing the reader to experience something and engage with it, on any level above simply being told or shown something. World of Goo isn't really an example of this, but I think that's worth mentioning, for the sake of the unfortunate few on here who are questioning the importance of videogame storytelling. So comments like "It doesn't have themes, it's just a game. Any other opinion can safely be dismissed as 'pretentious'" strike me as teriffically ignorant, and far more obnoxious than any 'games-as-art' viewpoint could ever be. It's true that some games carry the soul purpose of providing fun for the player through the pure, visceral enjoyment of completing a certain task. But equally, others put this narrative potential at the forefront of their design, basing the whole experience around the premise of storytelling and engagement with plot. Neither devalues the other, and I can't think of a single other entertainment medium where people would argue so vehemently about such a point. Take Bruce Almighty and sit it next to Schindler's List. Both have completely different purposes, so they don't infringe on each other. I don't understand why it's so hard to see that the same concept is true of games, but at an even more prominent level. For what it's worth, I don't think World of Goo is a 10 game - but for reasons completely different to any that have been thoughtlessly cited here.
Edited 3 times,
most recently on 07/01/09 @ 16:21
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@LewisResolution
Good points, well made. Unfortunately I haven't played World of Goo yet so you prob won't take my opinion seriously but I honestly believe if a story was done right in a game from a first person perspective that it should be better then any story in a puzzle game of this sort. To be honest though I don't take story in games seriously at all. I think the best stories in games would still be considered poor compared to books or films. I think gaming will eventually get to a place where good story telling is an important factor. I've been playing games for 25 years and very very few games' stories have left any sort of impression on me. For me the best story in a game is Shadow of the Colossus. Feed the player the bare minimum of a fantastic world and let them fill in the blanks with their own imagination. I enjoyed Half Life, more because how the story was very well presented as apposed to the actual story they told. For Halo they built a great universe but the actual story itself was pretty poor. They would have been better going down the Shadow route of letting it up to the player to decide if you're actually the good guy or the bad guy in these alien worlds. Anywho, i'm babbling. What i'm trying to say is, if its done correctly I believe a story told where you are actually the character within the world should be far superior to a story of a puzzle game of this nature. I'm fine with your objection by the way, i'm not looking for a fight here, that's just my opinion. And I have downloaded the demo of World of Goo and hope to play it soon. Cheers. |
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LewisResolution
08/01/09 @ 16:31
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"I honestly believe if a story was done right in a game from a first person perspective that it should be better then any story in a puzzle game of this sort."
It depends what sort of a story you're trying to tell, and if that story relies on absolute empathy or not. Different perspectives suit different narratives. It's a bit like claiming that novels written in the first-person are better than those written as an omniscient narrator. It really doesn't hold any weight unless you contextualise it. That said, I completely understand what you're getting at. The level of immersion is, in theory, far increased if you can actually see through the eyes of a character. What I liked about World of Goo, though, is how carefully it constructs its narrative so that this is never an issue. It's a story about observing the masses, watching how the oppressed deal with their lives and try to kick back against the establishment. It's almost like Man With A Movie Camera, for that. Christ, and you lot thought Walker was being pretentious. You're correct that mainstream games still lack the storytelling prowess of other media, but you're equally right that this will eventually change. If it doesn't, I'll be an extremely disappointed man, but I'm remaining optimistic for now. If you want a few examples of videogame storytelling done astonishingly well, might I recommend - off the top of my head - The Longest Journey, Vampire: Bloodlines, Pathologic and Planescape: Torment. EDIT: Snooze - nothing like it.
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most recently on 08/01/09 @ 16:34
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I still see no actual arguments for why puzzle games can't tell stories as well as FPS games. Stories do not need to be hollywood-style spectacles, remember.
As for judging whether it's a ten or not, I'd advise you to play the game through. To me personally, it was a nine, but it's a marvel of a game, excellently put together and deliciously varied throughout. As for what constitutes a EG ten, i found this a bit funny (my emphasis): "A 10 will inspire the reviewer because it gets so many things correct. It will be something truly groundbreaking and aesthetically successful, be consistently enjoyable, get the balance right in difficulty terms, be technically very impressive, and be polished to a shine. It will leave the player in no doubt that they're playing something special right from the word go and will continue to inspire and amaze throughout." The physics simulation sure is interesting, but World of Goo isn't overtly technically impressive, and this text sounds a bit narrow for what a ten should need to be. Slitherlink for instance was anything but technically impressive, no? Me, I couldn't care less about technical details. Some games need to be technically accomplished, others don't. Fun (or interest) is all you need, and should need, to get a 10 -- if it's fun (or interesting) enough.
Edited 3 times,
most recently on 09/01/09 @ 03:41
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LewisResolution
09/01/09 @ 10:08
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I wonder if it means 'mechanically' rather than 'technically'. As in, the technology doesn't have to be groundbreaking, but the game has to 'technically work' in a consistently brilliant way.
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floppylobster
12/01/09 @ 10:38
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I think what bothers me most about this review is this part -
"At first glance it appears entirely buoyant and happy, but there is a constant underlying bleakness as the chapters' oblique stories suggest struggles of the under-classes, and the crushing oppression of big business, and the temporal nature of beauty. Although you may be pleased to know that you can let these elements slide over you..." I've played another couple of levels since my last comment (and I still stick by that assessment), but I don't get how the reviewer can say 'underlying' and 'you can let these elements slide over you', you really can't. They're so in-your-face. Constantly. It's more like "Constant reminder" and "You can try to ignore these elements but..." Games can tell stories, they're just not very good at it yet. It takes time. Look how long film is taking. |
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World of Goo Corporation. Passage of World of Goo. Download World of Goo. Fan site of the game World of Goo.
http://world-of-goo.co.cc/ |
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