White Knight Chronicles Comments by Keza MacDonald

I wish this was a review of Demon's Souls.

Yeah Demon's soul looks ace

Unexpected appearance.... and I think my adblock is causing backgrounds to go black meaning I have to highlight all the text to read it... thats if I can without the PUSH advert getting in the way.

So pretty ok on both play style fronts, lets hope the online side of things gets some more work over time as opposed to getting dumped out there and thats it.

Sounds great... definitely interested in this, although not for the multiplayer. So much for people telling me this was supposed to be rubbish and boring, etc. Since when have Level 5 made a bad RPG recently?

All JRPG's are terrible. Terrible, I say.

And Anime.

And Manga too.

In fact, Japanese influenced pop culture is a stain on us all.

amusingly, with the background being black, the only words that appeared were DISAPPOINTMENT DISAPPOINTMENT in blue!

I thought "oh man".

"White Knight Chronicles is out now in Japan, with a European release date yet to be announced. A half-decent working knowledge of Japanese is necessary to enjoy it at this point"

You just wanted an excuse to play it, right? :)

i'd consider playing a jrpg if somebody ever makes one with decent combat.

it's 2009, consoles are high-powered machines (well, 2 out of the 3 we have atm) and there's really no excuse for not implementing a proper fighting system; at least this one is not completely turn-based, but the fact that everything is still based on the very much outdated "roll the dice" mechanic instead of player skill is epic fail.

That is the mechanic of role playing games. Oblivion is stat driven, Mass Effect is stat driven, Fallout 3 is stat driven.

it's 2009, consoles are high-powered machines (well, 2 out of the 3 we have atm) and there's really no excuse for not implementing a proper fighting system; at least this one is not completely turn-based, but the fact that everything is still based on the very much outdated "roll the dice" mechanic instead of player skill is epic fail.

That's probably the most fundamental misunderstanding of RPGs and the term "outdated" that I've ever read.

Some players prefer to use a different kind of skill rather than twitch gaming skills (what, btw., gaming has initially all been about) in their games.

JahB: Eternal Sonata has a realtime battle system where you have to use light and dark attacks to your advantage in small battlefeld maps where the areas change the enemies.

The Star Ocean Series has a realtime system with combos and special attacks that you trigger, attacking from behind deals extra damage. Keeping attacks going will stop the enemies from throwing spells, you can daze enemies. Use items, throw spells. All very hectic and quite tactical when there are many enemies of different types.

Folklore, which is more an action rpg I guess forces you to use a rock, paper, scissors type approach to every single enemy in the game. Trying to understand the weakness of the enemy is key to winning and learning new 'attacks' is done by capturing these enemies.

The Persona Series (and other Megaten games) has a push turn turnbased system where if you incapacitate the enemy (by exploiting his weakness to an element) you will be rewarded with an extra attack. Incapacitating them all allows you an all out attack on all. It's a matter of finding the weaknesses but also of building your own defenses so that the enemy cannot exploit yours.

Seriously, western rpgs are usually more about the numbers than japanese rpgs.

But fundamentally you still have a bunch of numbers behind it saying that "well your strength is X, their defence is Y, add in %age chances for critical/miss, so we'll do a calc and this is your damage for your attack".

Not saying this is an issue, but its present in just about all RPGs regardless of where they come from.

Very good! It's not the greatest RPG ever made, but certainly better than most of the tosh that has been released this generation.

Even Level 5 isn't that good, it seems...

Well being able to level up and use more powerful equipment/magic/whatever is a big part of what makes RPG so addictive for me. Most modern RPGs hide the number cruncing pretty well, e.g. Fallout 3 and Mass Effect.

What I don't like about many Japanese RPGs is the silly random battles... you know... you're treking across an empty landscape and all of a sudden you find yourself fighting an enemy that wasn't there seconds ago because... da da... they were invisible, presumably. It might have worked 20 years ago when the technology was limited but it doesn't work now, it's archaic, it's annoying. That spoilt Lost Odyssey for me completely and is the reason why I enjoyed games like Grandia II (a personal favourite from my Dreamcast days), Blue Dragon and Eternal Sonata far more. I mean why wouldn't you be able to see the enemies? Maybe you're walking around with your eyes shut or something... :?

@JahB
Wrong on so many levels it's hard to work out where to begin.

Actually quite surprised at the positive note of the review since Famitsu gave it a lowish score and it has gotten mixed user reviews on Amazon.jp. The only other review in English I've seen (rpgfan) said, "Ultimately I think the franchise has potential. Nevertheless, it's still very skip-able for people with a long backlog of games to get into." Be interesting to see the reaction when the localised version comes out.

"There's mercifully little pratting about in White Knight Chronicles - no grinding, no wandering..."

No wandering?? There goes my interest right out the window :(

Yeah, when it comes to rpgs, can usually apply a simple formula:

No grinding. Good.

No wandering. Bad.

I want the best of both worlds, no grinding, and a world I can actually explore to my hearts content.

Sounds rather good, I love giant robots and furry midgets.

Lost Odyssey didn't have wandering much, still thought it was better than FFXII.

Is this out already. Bit of a rushed release innit?

Its been out for a while, smashed in first week sales of over 200k in Japan.

Oh God, Im so tired of FPSes. At this point I'll take anything and this even looks decent.

@disc:
might give eternal sonata a try then. that sounds quite good.

@DrDamn
Wrong on so many levels it's hard to work out where to begin.

care to elaborate? i was simply stating that in this console generation, the excuse "it's not technically doable" (which was the reason behind the turn based games of old) doesn't cut it anymore. cueing up buttons and then watch a custcene play out can never be a substitute for actual gameplay.

but if you want to argue that there's a valid reason for having a turn based system in place, enlighten me.

Sounds cool, I expected it to be decent. Level 5 rarely disappoint.

Oh Eurogamer, you pulled on my heart strings when I saw this belated import review hoping that the European or US version was around the corner. Please if you're going to do an import review do it around the time it's launched in that country. *weeps*

k I'll learn Japanese just so I can play this game. Not.

O_o

@ Cappy

That's exactly what I thought when i saw this :)

It is an interesting choice of review for Eurogamer as this game is the polar opposite of Demon's Souls (both being rpgs released for the same platform at about the same time notwithstanding), it is lighthearted, accessible and easy where DS is much more serious, demanding and challenging. I just hope it doesn't get bashed precisely because of that when it is finally reviewed here.

@JahB

You want Action RPG's which sound like the "evolution" in JRPG's what you want (and they've been swarming the PS2, where have you been?), wish people would stop painting a broad brush over all JRPG's :(, some people like the "ancient" turn based mechanic for the same reason why people prefer chess over hungry hungry hippo.

@JahB

It is a different style of combat mechanics and a simulation of your character's abilities not a measure of how fast you can mash buttons. Not everyone likes Ninja Gaiden way of doing things. Personally I like turn based games.

This sounds great, looking forward to it.

Why is it in every thread about a JRPG we have to have some clowns making the same tired old complaint against turned-based battle systems?

Battles do not *have* to be fast-paced twitch affairs in every goddamn single game. There is room for alternatives you know.

Perhaps those clowns would like to suggest some improvements to the gameplay of Chess as its clearly an ancient game well past its sell-by date due to the turn-based nature of the contest?!

Oh, and random battles add a lot of tension when you're roaming a dungeon low on health!

@JahB
You've seem to have a core assumption that real time combat is a a natural progression from turn based combat. It's like saying oranges are a natural progression of apples. They are two different things. There never were technical reasons for not doing non-turn based combat. It's simply a choice or design decision. Many people prefect the tactical nature of turn based combat where the battle is decided based on your decisions and planning rather than how nibble you are with button presses.

I wouldn't say its turn based, its moves with cooldown periods.

@Steroyd
I see where you're coming from, but the chess comparison doesn't quite work. The guy who made up chess (brilliant as he must have been, I'm afraid I don't know who it was) intended it to be a turn based game, it wasn't a decision forced upon him by technical limitations.

@BlueDot
That's the one argument that holds. Naturally, if there's a large audience of games that prefer their games to be turn based, a developer should cater to that. But I still think that - given today's technology - having the choice between real time or turn based should be doable at the very least.

@Shrub
this was a decent discussion before you came along and started the name-calling. the point of my post was not to personally offend anybody who likes turn based games, but that's about all i have to say to you.

@DrDamn

correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Final Fantasy (the poster child for turn-based combat games) evolve into realtime? yes, nowadays turn-based is of course a design decision (as realtime is doable for everyone), but if the team that made the early Final Fantasy games had had the technological power that we have today, their design decisions might have been very different.

So is this action or turn based RPG? I haven't payed much attention to this title and haven't got a scoob.

Final Fantasy XII isn't realtime, but neither is it turn based, you could say that White Knight Story is an evolved form of what FFXII started, FFXIII is a testament to that.

So, online it feels/ plays like Mhunter? Colour me a punter.

@JahB

If a developer made a game that gave the choice of both real time and turn based they would be creating two different gameplay styles which would be far too much effort. I much prefer turn based RPGs myself since I've never played a real time RPG that required any tactics other than mash the X button and throw out the odd healing item. FFX was probably the perfect run based system. You really had to think about how to win a battle unless you over levelled and ruined the game on yourself.

@JahB

You're right that it was intended that way to counter technical difficulty's, but games like that now are a deliberate choice. It's not like japnese don't know how to make action games, it's that a whole lot of people there and over here still love em. Just look at it like a Pokemon mechanic. I hit you with my lightning storm +10. It's the same mechanic, only digital. I actually hated FFXII for being more realtime because battles became a cluttered mess. And a semirealtime game like Eternal Sonata actual was more boring because of it.

It's actually relaxing for me to not have to play with fast reflexes and supercombo gameplay all the time. I do enjoy that, but there' something quite relaxing about turn based gameplay after a days work as well.

how on earth did we get to this idea that turn-based videogames was initially due to technological short-comings? they all stem from the computer versions of pen & paper RPGs, so they were turn-based by design. there have been real-time games since pong and co.

the chess comparison is excellent. i like turn-based battles. and i cannot lie.

"rhubarbandcustard
All JRPG's are terrible. Terrible, I say.

And Anime.

And Manga too.

In fact, Japanese influenced pop culture is a stain on us all. "

Really? Wow, that is the most ignorant statement I've read in a while. Or your sarcasm is beyond us all.

JahB

"i was simply stating that in this console generation, the excuse "it's not technically doable" (which was the reason behind the turn based games of old)"

The problem is that you start from an incorrect premise. People don't use turn based because of technical constraints, they use it because it is a valid gameplay that shifts focus from speed/reflexes/accuracy to tactical thought and planning. I understand that it's not what you like, but many people do. Personally, the more I grow old, the more I want everything to be turn based :P. unfortunately, the general tendency seems to be the opposite (most games these days are real time), but I think that developers underestimate the number of slow old people who like games. there must be a fair few of us.

Speaking of slow, 10 posts appeared in the time it took me to write mine! I want turn based forums!

@JahB
I think you'll find that poster child is heading back to turn based territory for FFXIII - based on the last vid.

glad to see Level 5 havent disappointed, i have been waiting for this for over a year now.

Can't wait for it to finally make an EU appearance, if it wasn't for the massive backlog of games i have to work through at the moment it would have already been imported me thinks.

whoa, that thread exploded. well, it seems obvious enough that there's quite a number of people who hold turn based combat dearly, so there's clearly a distinct market :)

Shame White Knight isn't turn-based, eh?