Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning Comments by Oli Welsh

Reviewers of MMOs must learn to refrain from speculating that if an MMO is content-lite at launch it deserves time to mature and no doubt future content will improve the gameplay.
They seem to forget that Blizzard shipped WoW with content aplenty for all levels.
Scholomance and Strathholme were there from day one, just waiting for players to reach high 50s and check them out.
Everyhing in-between was also there waiting for the players to gain the experience to tackle them.

Don't let these devs pull the wool over your eyes with low level content and a cursory high level dungeon with nought in between. Make them work hard for their 8/10

"But damn, i hate the "Target is not Attackable" bug. "

This worries me. Anyone that was in closed beta was this happening a lot before or is this a recent bug?

At the moment there are entire Public quests rendered unplayable by this. Vertical aggro and mob line of sight is a problem.

I was a with a small group doing a PQ where you have to fight you way up a Belltower and the mobs where aggroing from 2 floors above us and below us, some were even coming up through the floors. It was absolutely mental.

Ahh seems they have tried to fix this in the patch this morning. Will see in an hour or 2

My biggest gripe is with the fact that unless you have a balanced Chaos - Order population RvR will be painful for one side (the one that has less members).
If I would play WAR I would play Chaos of course as a lot of other people appearantly already do / will do.

Faction imbalance was / is an issue in WoW and was only partly solved with the introduction of "Blood Elves" as a "sexy" race in the last expansion.
It's no fun to be steamrolled as Horde on a server with 4:1 or worse on Ally.
No idea how Mythic wants to address this.

Reviewing a beta? Hardly a credible thing to do - shame on you, EG.

A review of a beta, BEFORE the last pre-launch patch? Fucking awsome Eurogamer, keep up the great work :|

Oh and don't mind Gaol, he's clearly on a personal crusade against this game. "Although I'm right" et all, I'm sure he knows better than thousands of players that are enjoying the game now.

edit: spleing

after playing open beta for 2 days ive pre ordered this bad boy , for me the areas are amazing so much to look at and do oh and the public quests are for me one of the best MMo ideas there has been in a very long time.

ill be glad to get away from wow that game for me has destroyed the whole idea of a MMO , you should never be able to solo it should all go back to the EQ days whrere grouping all the time is a must for a fun and socail experiance for all.

im not slating wow as the game is technical good but its way to easy to get to the top and theres no fear in dying like EQ where dying would cost you hours of play time.

"My biggest gripe is with the fact that unless you have a balanced Chaos - Order population RvR will be painful for one side (the one that has less members).
If I would play WAR I would play Chaos of course as a lot of other people appearantly already do / will do. "

not to much of a problem seeing there is pop limits for servers for which side you go on .

Regarding the timing of the review - I admit it, we're still trying to figure out the best way of handling this with MMOs. And to some extent you have to do it on a case-by-case basis: the relatively finished state of the WAR beta meant that both we, and the game's PRs, were happy to run a review now.

In retrospect, I felt that giving Age of Conan a few weeks didn't really advance our opinion past what we could have (in fact did, just with no score) say about it at launch. In which case, you've got two options: wait something like three months before publishing any review at all; or offer readers a review at launch to help them make the decision to buy.

I think three months is just too long to go without expressing an opinion on such an important game. Happily, our re-review system means we can come back to it in a while anyway, and see how it's getting on.

I also have to point out that "most of my complaints" aren't solely related to server population. If you read the review, you'll see I have some issues with crafting, class design, combat, loot and more. It's a terrific game though, and I'd encourage anyone to try it at launch.

@ Gaol

I love your reviews (Age of Conan and this one)- please keep them up and ignore those that try to bring your comments down

Everyone is entitled to voice their opinions and yours bring some balance to the overly hyped ones of reviewers and other beta testers

its a beta TEST.

lol love eveyone reviewing and commenting, hella cool.

rofl.

Oli >

Why on earth do you care about the game's PRs? Do they have a big, bad whip or something? Isn't this about your readers? Or is it all about the profits you get from the text-clicks? I am sorry, but as a games journalist myself (representing the biggest games mag in Scandinavia, both in print and online) I just think that this is complete suicide. I've always read EG's reviews and thought "these guys are good" - but your credibility (reviewing a BETA of a MMO) just went waaay down for me. This is a serious matter.

ALL the bugs, moans, nags are completly pointless as you have NO IDEA what will be fixed/addressed/changed in the retail.

Waste of a review tbh, re-review it again in 2-3 weeks.

Everyone seems very angry today - The WAR fans for the game not getting a 10/10 The WoW fans for the game not getting as 5/10
Theres only one way to fix this - prostitutes for everyone!

@muftak
"ill be glad to get away from wow that game for me has destroyed the whole idea of a MMO , you should never be able to solo it should all go back to the EQ days whrere grouping all the time is a must for a fun and socail experiance for all. "

You could solo in Ultima Online - which predates EQ by about a year.
You could solo in MUDS - I used to play a lot back in the early ninties.

MMORPG's wern't ment to be purely for group playing sessions - Thats what deathmatch games are for - They were supposed to allow gaming in a dynamic open adaptive world with other 'real' people. Y'know like playing a RPG but with lots of other people there as well. It should be fun in a team and fun solo - I play both styles with WoW at the moment (maybe with WAR if they release a demo/free play offer)

Yet again: how the hell can you *review* an online MMORPG a week before the official release? This is becoming a standard joke. What you're basically saying is "We don't give a shit what people think or what we cause by these texts as long as we get the clicks." Rather horrifying.

look, i wont get into personal attacks, but i am saying right now, i dont think Goal has played the game, and if he has, he hasnt played it recently.

His arguements have been disected as is, one comment stands out 'you can't see more than 6ft in front of you'

total fucking bullshit, draw distances arent WoW like, but at the same team, at least there's SOMETHING in the zone. Go to Mulgore, or the barrens, two of the largest flat zones, and you'll see empty lifeless zones, with fuck all squared happening.

As for combat, heres another myth shattered for you WAR haters. The GCD in WoW is 1.5 seconds. The GCD in WAR is 1.4 seconds.

Combat is quicker, the problem is you need a system like WoW that tells you, IN MINUTE detail everything thats happening.

Anyway, rant over about goal and haters.

On to EG and beyond.

edited cause i feel bad after reading oli's post! i'm such a chicken shit

This game is a 9/10 at beta. i simply cannot wait to see what the game will be like after a 12 month patch cycle.

cosmosdk - As you'll know if you're a journalist, PRs control when you can review a game by lifting a review embargo. That's all I meant by that comment - Warhammer's PRs *allowed* the game to be reviewed from beta.

You should also know that magazines review from beta regularly, because of the lead times involved in print.

As I said, I wouldn't always be happy doing this, but in Warhammer's case I was. I've made allowances for how I predict the game will develop in the next couple of weeks, and I'm confident that all of my judgements will hold true for the release version of the game.

Oli >

So EA let you review the BETA of Mythic's game (I doubt Mythic would), and now you get 10x as many clicks and thus 10x as much profit from this review, yeah? What about your credibility?

I know that you, as an editor, probably had no saying what so ever about this matter, and that your bosses up high in the EG hierachy more than likely ordered you to do this review. The games press business is in a sad, sad state - seen this happening too many times lately.

I understand the dillemma. If you wait - say 1 month - you will have close to no interest in your review, BUT your credibility remains, and your respect grows. If you review the game on launch day (or a week prior) you will get an insane amount of clicks, but you will lose your credibility. It's like one of those morale choices in a Bioware-game, isn't it?

So, journalism or dinero?

If this is good as AOC (8/10), I'm not interested.

well, i'm still posting here, cuas ei just want to re-iterate, this game is amazing

sat down last night at 6, turned round and it was 11!

got into some excellent PQ's met some great people, and got myself a great blue drop!

all round, a great night!

Although I think the EG reviewer was a bit generous, I'm surprised at the attacks on EG for getting this review out a week early. The forthcoming patch has been detailed and its barely going to change the finished product between now and release. The reviewer has also pointed out several flaws that aren't readily apparent unless the game has been played extensively (eg. itemisation)- I'd rather take the views of someone who has played the game extensively for months and is aware of how quickly/slowly Mythic are changing things. Other reviewers will probably play for a bit at retail and base opinions on much shorter play times.

@anomagnus

I'm exaggerating for effect, but the fact remains you can't see shit during night cycles in this game. The Chaos and Greenskin zones are especially bad, and it sucks any character or sense of place out of the game.

Everyone looks the same. Mythic made the same error with Daoc. People in MMO's like WoW enjoy swanning around showing off the lovely gear they've worked hard for, you can't do that in a Mythic game. Dying something does not make up for the fact that it's not impressive to look at.

Otherwise, my predictable throught from the beta was: this is WoW with daoc's pvp system. Big deal. Why would you bother?

Oh and GOA suck balls, that's a good reason to knock points off.

For the Horde

Just cancelled my pre-order from play.

Back to leveling my Druid Alt

Come on guys this game is another LOTR at best back to WOW!

In contrast to what cosmosdk had said, I am very grateful that EG released this review early.

In the last MMO release, EG review was weeks after the game release which forces me to try the game by myself. That costs me not only money but personal dissatisfaction of having to play a game which I had waited for a long time which turned out to be poo.

Thanks EG.

PS. Don't worry about cosmosdk. I believe he is just angry that you just stole thunder from his upcoming review ... which is coming years after release to ensure 'correct and proper' representation of the game.

@ Slim - I understand the desire to craft an individual and cool look for a character, but I don't think holding up WoW as an example of how to do it is the right way to go. All the characters I've ever played spent the majority of their lives looking like they'd bought their armour piecemeal from Oxfam over the course of a couple of months and looked anything but cool until they managed to grab pieces of whatever the latest class set to wear was, at which point they looked the same as everyone else who was after the same set!

Doesn't excuse WAR of course if they've fallen into the same rut (or worse, if peoples comments are to be believed) - I've yet to play an MMO that didn't have me looking like the village hobo after an hour or so play...

For the Horde

Just cancelled my pre-order from play.

Back to leveling my Druid Alt

Come on guys this game is another LOTR at best back to WOW!

Wickerman, you've missed my point. It doesn't matter a jot what you look like, what matters is that your gear is recognisable. There's no point having a hard earned Staff of Uber Pooning if it looks the same as every other staff, because you can't swan around outside banks showing the damn thing off.

These games are all about giving people a sense of achievement, and a big part of that is making other people know how much you've achieved. I didn't get that at all from DAOC, because all the gear looked identical and you just coloured it anyway.

And GoA still suck balls :)

"You could solo in Ultima Online - which predates EQ by about a year. "

UO isnt in my eyes the same sort of game really , UO is more akin to animal crossing all about collecting stuff dont get me wrong loved UO because you didnt have to kill all the time , also there wasnt the group mechanics like EQ personally it was abit stupid to compare EQ with UO .

if you got a pure killing game style like EQ/EQ2/WoW/WaR it should be pue grouping it should be about adventures with friends not just a game where you can solo that runs no risks or a game that dosnt force you to group ,sure have a solo game up to 20 then make it really hard to lvl after.

just my 2 cents

cosmosdk - No, as Eurogamer's MMO editor, the decision on when to run the review was mine alone.

As I said, I did wait one month before publishing a review of Age of Conan - and in fact, it got plenty of clicks. But I didn't feel it was a much better or more accurate review than we could have published at launch. So I decided to do it differently this time.

I might agree with you if this was the only review of WAR that EG will ever publish, but our re-review system for MMOs means that we reflect how they change over time. No MMO review score is set in stone, nor should it be; there is no such thing as a "right time" to review an MMO.

That being the case, if you can give an honest opinion on a game's design based on many, many hours of play, and a good enough understanding of MMOs to predict how the experience will change when it launches, why wouldn't you?

I'm very sorry if you and others feel this review has damaged Eurogamer's credibility - that certainly wasn't my intention. I'd only ask that you play the game at launch and see if you think the review is inaccurate then.

@ Slim - ah, my bad. Yeah, point missed entirely - this is what I get for posting without sufficient caffeine... I can see how that would irk a lot of people that have put a lot of time into acquiring a item!

You have a right to write your opinions but this should have been your impressions of the game before launch, not a review. Scores make people angry. Then again, the word "review" probably got you a lot more clicks than the word "impressions" would have. Quite a dilemma.

Theres only one way to fix this - prostitutes for everyone!

I'm with IronCladChicken on this one!

So you'd rather get myriad sexual diseases than play this game? I'm confused...

Oli >

Sure magazines review non-final builds of games, but this is a online site, you don't have a deadline for print etc., whereas we sometimes have to deliver a text 3 weeks prior to the actual magazine deadline. Also, some of the builds we review for the mag. are only unfinished in terms of bugs etc., never content-wise. Which brings me to my next point. The current WAR-build, content-wise, does not represent the final product. I understand that you probably have also been playing the closed beta (as have I), but basing a review on some toons that you will never be attached to (it is beta, after all) is just vague. I am not the slightest bit attached to my rank 11 warrior priest, nor was I attached to any of my 20 lvl 31 templated toons from the closed beta. And that is a problem, because you will never immerse yourself fully when playing a beta. Never.

As some of your readers point out, simply posting the review as a hands-on impression (without a number at the end) would have been the smartest move. I partially respect your decision, and EG is / was THE international site for me, in terms of reviews. Not just because of KG bringing NGJ to the masses, but because your reviews have always been spot on. This one is not, because it is a review of a MMORPG BETA.

Gamereactor posted my beta hands-on yesterday, and when we do betatests we use a 'thermometer' special scale. Have a look @ http://gamereactor.dk/previews/70878/War... - just scroll to the bottom.

PS: Sorry for all the edits - I'm not english, but I dislike not spelling correctly ;)

@Slim

"Wickerman, you've missed my point. It doesn't matter a jot what you look like, what matters is that your gear is recognisable. There's no point having a hard earned Staff of Uber Pooning if it looks the same as every other staff, because you can't swan around outside banks showing the damn thing off"

How many unique pieces of gear were there in WoW, at launch? As Wickerman points out, even now, pre-60 and 70 everyone looks like some manic Opal Fruit coloured monster. Like some kind of freakish scarecrow. Its only until you get to the sets of gear that you even begin to start looking 'cool' and even then, you look exactly the same as every other player who also has those sets. At least WAR allows you to dye the gear, to add another level of differentiation to the mix. Gear aside, you'll also have achievements and titles in WAR, so for those for whom gear isn't that important (for e-peen purposes), they'll have a set of titles to display that they can choose to show off, potentially, even more. "Hardbastard, Right Hand of Sigmar" potentially implies a shedload more than a power-ranger helmet...


"These games are all about giving people a sense of achievement, and a big part of that is making other people know how much you've achieved. I didn't get that at all from DAOC, because all the gear looked identical and you just coloured it anyway"

Sense of achievement isn't always about 'looking cool'. Seriously, you're coming across as a proper WoW-kiddie at the moment and whilst i can appreciate your perspective, to a degree, its just not that much of a problem. WAR isnt WoW and thank fuck for it. WAR approaches the 'look' of characters in a much more realistic and original manner than WoW ever did. Armour being worn looks like armour and is faithful to the Warhammer universe. Personally, I can't wait to get the armour pieces for my Warrior Priest that completes his 'look', as you can see they have in the RPG (the under chin armour). That will be the point where, I hope, everyone who see's me will know i've 'made it'. I don't want neon shoulders. I want stuff that looks like a great mix of fantasty and historical, which Warhammer is ALL about.


"And GoA still suck balls :)"

They absolutely do!

Good review. Biggest problem for me: the combat feels clunky and cumbersome (even with cooldowns equal or lower to WoW and whatnot). The combat mechanics in WoW just feel 'frantic' and fun...I can't explain it very well.

Pluspoints? The public quests are awesome (and I find people actually WILLING to group up a lot more in this game because of it...perhaps it's the server I play on), and the RvR is very well done, much better than that other game you might've heard about. With a more flowing feel to the combat mechanics it's a good game. I'll be sure to check back in a few months.

I'd just like to say after playing some WAR open beta and AoC at release - WAR is not another AoC.

First the combat(i.e. pvp balance) isn't completely broken, second there is actually content. Oh and stats on items actually do something!

As for the combat mechanics, I don't think it's as bad as many people make out but it certainly isn't as smooth as WoWs. I think a lot of that has to do with graphical and audio feedback while casting/after casting.

oh get over yourself cosmosdk.

I personally am glad that Eg posted this review and think they should do the same at launch or just prior for other big mmo launches. It's an informed article and the release version is not going to be so drastically different a to invalidate this review.

Review is spot on. While playing in the closed beta I was mainly soloing and finding very few people about to do RvR with and it felt a little bland. Then Open Beta rolled around and all my buddies rolled in along with a swathe of others. It's a far, far better experience now. Public Quests are great fun and marred only by the unattackable mob bug (which got fixed this morning, I believe). The RvR scenarios are always a blast and, while less common, the open world RvR stuff is great as well. This morning's patch adds great incentives to participate in the latter as well, with keep bosses now dropping more loot and even the sergeants at battlefield objectives now having a solid chance to drop decent loot. The combat is a little clunkier than WoW's but that never stopped me from having fun. Each class has a role and fills it well. Tanks are horrendously tough when backed up by healers and are very good at taking down lightly armoured DPS classes. Healers, however, can simply heal through a tank's battering, requiring a dedicated DPS class to take them down. And that's just thinking on a 1v1 level, which you'll only rarely see. I'm surprised the review didn't mention collision detection, which is present during RvR. Being able to block chokepoints and prevent people from running through you and away is wonderful for a melee class and is a pretty significant feature of the game. It's also worth noting that the RvR gives you very good rewards: reknown gear is solid, affordable and available from low levels, reknown itself can be cashed in for permanent stat upgrades and special tactics and getting experience, loot and money from battering other players is great.

The PvE compares a little poorly when stacked up against the RvR, but I've had some good times there as well. The foremost thing in my mind concerning it that it's painless. Unlike WoW, where at any one time you'll be visiting 2-3 different hubs for quests scattered all over the place, all the quest givers are condensed into one hub and their quests concern the areas around said hub. PvE combat in general is also without grief, with very little downtime and mobs that don't outlive their welcome. That said it might be said it's too easy. My housemate, while watching, remarked at how my black orc seemed nearly indestructible, capable of taking on 5 equal leveled mobs at once and battering them all down without too much concern. I didn't mind this at all: it beats having to worry about agroing a single add and being forced to run but it might rub some people the wrong way.

In either case the main draw of the game will be the RvR. If you're a PvP sort of chap then you should definitely check it out. If you're the sort that's in it for a solo PvE experience, however, this probably won't push your buttons.

Edit: it's also worth noting that the guild interface is pretty slick, as is the whole levelable guild deal. Not sure about our guild's 26 player cap, though. I hope it increases quickly as the levels roll in.

maybe in this type of review it would be better to ditch the mark out of ten and put and indication along the lines of must buy/try it/wait till its fixed etc - and btw gaol is there any mmorpg that you actually like? although tbh i did stop playing AoC after about 1 month as you predicted ;)

Or you could just ditch scores altogether, assigning arbitray numbers to a subjective experience is quite frankly bizarre.

"So Mr Cézanne, your piece Still Life with a Curtain illustrates a trend towards terse compression of forms and dynamic tension between geometric figures."

"The "magazines" gave it a 4/5"

@Rizo

"For the Horde

Just cancelled my pre-order from play.

Back to leveling my Druid Alt

Come on guys this game is another LOTR at best back to WOW! "


So, troll, how exactly did you come to this conclusion?

I'm with Roper on this one. And don't worry about Gaol, he's been copy/pasting that same first post everywhere for days now. It seems to really bother him that people might actually, you know, try the game themselves.

I also have a sneaking suspicion he's been logging in under other accounts to comment on his own threads with gag-inducing comments like "Wow, Gaol! You should review MMOs proffesionally!".... ugh.

EDIT: Actually, you know what? Anyone who wants to listen to Gaol go ahead. I see it as a filtering tool for morons to stay out of my next MMO hobbie.

Peace out ;)

"So, troll, how exactly did you come to this conclusion? "

You actually see this having a higher sub rate than LOTR?

The game is fundamentally broken if there isn't a even split. If they put any caps on pop people will be pissed not being able to play with a friends.

They say this game has been in Beta for 2 years which is bullshit they can't fix simple enemy select issues. Doesn't exacly bode well for the quality of coding in the engine.

Why are the sounds and animation so shit? did they run out of money? I think they did thats why they cut a bunch of content to get the game out of the door. THATS A FACT

It's a quick flash burner most people will not resub after first month. With in three months it will have a pop between 300k and 500k IMO

Now go and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH to your mother

@Rizo:

"You actually see this having a higher sub rate than LOTR?"

The hype, vitriol and conflict with fans of this and other MMOs happening all over the net should tell you that, yes, this will indeed have a higher sub than LOTR.

It's the most reliable indicator you'll ever get.

Im glad you're staying in wow Rizo.

SO i guess you guys didn't have any comeback and agree with what i said about the game being fundamentally broken and rushed.

Dont care what you think to be honest, i've played it and I enjoyed it, and I agree with the review, nuff said.

Why do you think your trollish kiddie outbursts should warrant a response?

"Why do you think your trollish kiddie outbursts should warrant a response? "

I think you answered your own question.

@Rizo

"You actually see this having a higher sub rate than LOTR?"

My answer? I don't give a fuck. Companies should not aim to 'topple' other MMORPGs and neither do they need to, to make a good profit each month.


"The game is fundamentally broken if there isn't a even split. If they put any caps on pop people will be pissed not being able to play with a friends"

I assume you're referring to the Order/Chaos player split? In a limited Open Beta game? FFS....


"They say this game has been in Beta for 2 years which is bullshit they can't fix simple enemy select issues. Doesn't exacly bode well for the quality of coding in the engine"

Fixed in todays patch. Next?


"Why are the sounds and animation so shit? did they run out of money? I think they did thats why they cut a bunch of content to get the game out of the door. THATS A FACT"

I don't know what game youre playing but its deffo not WAR. Plus, the Open Beta client doesnt even have all the bells and whistles of the retail version, to keep the Beta client download to a minimum. Regardless, whats there now puts the 'top dog' to shame. THATS A FACT, MR KYLE!


"It's a quick flash burner most people will not resub after first month. With in three months it will have a pop between 300k and 500k IMO"

And, again, how would that (if it even happens) be a bad thing as long as the servers are managed properly? My game experience won't change.

All hail Rizo, who can predict the future just as well as Nostradamus!


"Now go and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH to your mother"

Maybe you should go and WAAAAAAAAAGH to yours and get her to buy you a new PC so you're not stuck in WoW-land for the next 5 years? Not because there arent any decent MMORPG alternatives but because your POS system won't run anything else?