Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II Comments by Oli Welsh

All they need for me to like it is to go back to the basics before all the expansions and create a good single player storyline.

I'm not sure I like the sound of this, I would have been more than happy with an improved "classic RTS", but maybe Relic have realised that even if their game was better, it would never stand head-to-head competition with Starcraft II.

Actually scratch what I said, this sounds even better than Dawn of War and even more up my alley. No resources and no bases and a focus on a semi-RPG rts. I like a lot.

Looks great, but the last thing they want to do is limit the races.
Dreadnoughts are looking freakin' badass!

I'm not so sure about the no bases thing. However I wasn't so sure about Dawn of War in the first place but I totally loved it. Amazing game and I really look forward to the sequel. With this and Starcraft II I finally have a good reason to buy a new PC.

This sounds like it could be really good, especially the 'no base building or resource gathering part'.

To be or not to be

i played half way through company of heroes without realising there was bases so i'm excited about that it's what they've been wanting to do from the start i think, just weren't sure how

I think this kind of thing worked well in World in Conflict, so given Relics pedigree, i am willing to trust them on this. Dawn of War blew me away when I bought it. Maybe because I had low expectations of the game at that time. However, being a seasoned pro RTS gamer, i do miss the micro-management sometimes.

I can't wait for this though!!

Very excited about this.

Sweet. 'Nuff said.

I like bases. I like starting with just a unit or two, a main base, and a constructor. I like speading out from that initial base, taking points and holding them with all I've got. I like that initial base growing and becoming multi-functional, able to produce anything from Scouts to teleporting Dreadnaughts right into the heart of enemy territory. I especially like watching my resources tick up until I can afford that next upgrade, or desperately reinforce that frontline unit that was in trouble.

I'll still buy DoW2, but I have a feeling I'll still be playing the original DoW more.

the multi player better have bases and trees or im not in..

If it's anything like Ground Control then I'm in!

That orc has a chessboard stuck to his eye.

But But But But But But But But... I like building bases :(

Whenever people say "no base building", I always think of those wretched dungeon crawl missions in Warcraft 3 that I hated, where if you mismanaged one battle you had to start over because you couldn't afford to lose units. I am encouraged by Relic saying that they want you to be able to recover from mistakes, though.

I'd say it's an RTT not RTS.

And they better make that MP interesting enough. No Fog of War, no bases, no resources, no points to hold, just what than?! Click'n'instagib - but yet recover from every mistake ever made during your not-so-strategic decisions? So it's rock, paper, scissors for 45 minutes with a /roll waiting at the end of every battle?

What might be a nice take on the SP (which now sound somewhat like a WoW-Battleground, read: alterac valley) sounds hardly fun in MP, if you're into RTS games that is - at least for me, for now. :P

SecuROM. GfWL. Enough said.

If its just Company of Hereos but in space... its gonna be good

I forgot about those damned Warcraft cave missions. I really, really suck in combat, the only way I ever win is making sure my base is well defended and having built varied units to at least stall any army until I can build something good.

The engine looks nice and I like what they're trying to do to the RTS genre but my big problem is I can't stand the whole Warhammer 40k universe - sets my teeth on edge.

Guess I'll wait for them to make CoH 2

Sounds like they're going the Ground Control way, sounds interesting.

Looking forward to this immensly, though I'm interested to see how the multiplayer works. While I was never one for competing on the ladders of the original I imagine a "no base and resources" policy might turn alot of the RTS crowd away.

I really like base-building in RTSs, but this sounds like a nice mix of RPG and RTS... And revivable commanders is a huge plus. Looking forward to this...

Actually the main reason they wouldn't do such a thing (and the same reason we'll not get a feature film any time soon) is that they don't have the production capacity to cope with the massive boost in model sales it would bring.

IIRC the factory was operating at almost 100% capacity when I worked there over 10 years ago, and the hobby is doing very well for itself.

christ, i'm wet for this

i had real problems with the lore in DoW, the idea that you could throw away so many astartes ruined the game for me

this seems much better, though it is a RTT not an RTS

FOR THE EMPEROR!

*stabs people with powersword*

CoH is the only RTS for me - I've been playing it for 18 months now - and this looks like it improves on the sheer heart-thumping, sweat inducing, adrenaline rush that you get from an intense game of CoH.

Will definitely buy graphics card for this.

@viper_h
"That orc has a chessboard stuck to his eye."

Dude, it's not cool to draw attention to it like that, he's self-concious enough, that's why he "acts out" the whole time. By severing spines.

I'm looking forward to this, just so long as there's a decent single player campaign I'm in and with co-op I'm definitely a buyer.

However, I'm wondering about multi-player, I didn't play on-line due to my basic inability to rush (i.e. in these types of games I'm generally wondering if the farms would look better near the gold-mine or the town hall when the paladin horde descends on my peaceful orc village) but skirmish was always fun and I don't see how it could really work.

Good to see some serious innovation in a sequel for a change (Blizzard, I'm looking at you).

Not sure about scrapping bases and resources entirely though - like them or not, they form a key element of traditional RTS gameplay. If you remove that gameplay, what will you replace it with?

It's also worth bearing in mind Relic's utter failure to support the last DoW game, Soulstorm. It was released early this year, and they've still not managed to release the 'hotfix' they promised months ago to fix the most serious (of many) bugs. So it's probably fair to assume that support for DoW 2 will be spotty at best.

this sounds awesome. liked the previous one but hated all the base building resource shite, so this sounds perfect for me!

Sounds like the single player will be excellent, as long as they get a decent story in there and have every battle you fight unique and interesting. I'm a bit worried since Dark Crusade did the whole 'choose your path' single player and it was rubbish since it was essentially just a bunch of skirmish missions, the original + winter assault campaigns were far better (though still not great).

I'm not sure about the multiplayer aspect either. Hopefully it'll be nothing like World in Conflict since that was incredibly shallow and got boring after about 30 minutes. If it ends up like that then i guess i'll have to wait for SC2 for my RTS fix.

I can see the old 'Fans of previous game being scared by change' monster lumbering towards this one like something inevitable.

Bring it to my console. Or beat my company into buying me a better laptop. I love warhammer, it reminds me (a geeky man) of being a geeky boy. Now where's my flesh white.....

@Schiraman
Relic will support DoW2. Soulstorm wasn't even developed by Relic (they had long since moved on to CoH and probably DoW2) and it had all the hallmarks of being unwanted and unloved by them. Relic did a great job of supporting DoW, Winter Assault and to a lesser extent Dark Crusade, as they were their own products.

No bases, no resource gathering, no building units, no dithering over force composition

But...I like dithering over force composition! Could they not just have worked out how to program AI that will act unpredictably in a RTS setting?

As others have said, this sounds like the parts of CoH and Warcraft that I like the least, restricting unit choice and build options just takes away whole chunks of gameplay elements.

I'm not afraid of change compared to DoW, but I am afraid of a game thats nowhere near the fun of its predecessor! Why not just sod PC gaming completely and go and play Halo Wars on the Xbox?

Saying all that, Relic have real pedigree, so lets hope they fashion something that will be fun for more than a few hours. And hopefully after that they will go and make Homeworld 3 once the licence is sorted out.

The unofficial word on the official forums is that basebuilding would still be in for multiplayer/skirmish but in a very reduced form. It shouldn't be left out entirely.

Looks brilliant for the rest but linear missions would be a turnoff and I am not really convinced that Relic is gonna reshape the Dark Crusade and Soul Storm campaign mechanics enough. In any case, Dow II actually tries to do something new and not just remake a 10-year old game with some new units here and there, that's a positive thing in itself.

The removal of base building, and focus on RPG and customisation is more in line with how 40k plays as a game. So it's definitely something I'm looking forward too, as it properly reflects the challenge of 40k where balancing the content of a small force of men with little or no additions is the challenge.

Okay that will exist, but in a very limited form. Seems like it's *almost* going to be like the close combat games, sort of.

Hang on guys, it's not really that new. I mean this is basically just Ground Control with light RPG mechanics in a 40k setting from the sounds of it.

Sounds awesome. I get bored having to spend time building a new base and army every single mission, getting rid of it would be great for single player campaigns. I have no idea how things will work in multiplayer, but different is more often good than bad.

@Asundai

Hang on guys, it's not really that new. I mean this is basically just Ground Control with light RPG mechanics in a 40k setting from the sounds of it"

To which I think most people would ask, "so?". In concept alone, it makes for an improvement, and with Relic's execution it'll probably be a damn sight better.

No bases, no resource gathering, no building units

Sorry, sounds terrible to me. I never was a fan of the purely tatctical RTS games, or missions in RTS games without these elements. Not one for me, then.

My english is, she not so good... but is it ironic that the lead designer of the original is now working at Blizzard on Diablo 3?

As for DoW2 I think the presentation in this game is amazing, probably the best I have seen in RTS. However the gameplay seems a bit off. Why not built up on the great elements of CoH instead? Never when playing the game did I think "You know what would make this better? More WarCraft 3 elements!!!"

I mean look at CoH destructible environments and cover... they barely exist at the end of the game just when you have the largest army. So the progression is from lots of choices to less, maybe Relic should do something about that. And why not remove the annoying elements? I mean the AI ughhh, bring back the stance system and give me predictable idiots rather that geniuses that are a pain to control.

I never like it when developers talk about accessibility, RTS games are enjoyed by many and sell millions of copies, they are hardly a nieche genre. I also disagree that complex/hardcore games sell less, I mean the most popular multiplayer FPS game is CS1.6, where you die fast, play with people who are much more skilled than you and sit off the entire round if you die. If you are going to do something than dumb downt the learning curve, not the actual game.

There is also nothing wrong with punishing players for mistakes, all games do that. An RTS skirmish lasts around 30 minutes (depending on the game), I think most players can accept a defeat.

I am also a bit concerned about the single player, a Total War like style never worked well in a non Total War style game.

When you think about it, Relic have already done the no base-building thing years ago with Homeworld. The most fucking awesome RTS ever in the universe. You just had a huge mothership which would slowly lumber around and had crap defences. If you wanted to build base defenses as such, all you could do was build some ships and park them nearby. Or leave them in a totally cool looking waypoint patrol loop. I think later on they introduced the fixed gun turret, but when you moved your fleet away it had to stay where it was, so you actually ended up not wanting to build the fixed stuff.

I'm so gay for Homeworld.

Anyway, this game is the only reason I'm waiting to upgrade my graphics card. And co-op campaign gets me hard. Zander you monkey bollock we are playing the shit out of this bad boy!

Base building may be a traditional part of RTS gaming, but it's sure as hell not a traditional part of Warhammer 40K. That's why i never got into the original.

The only thing that annoys me is the emphasis on another linear space marine campaign. This game needs a proper Total War style turn based strategy element.