WAR loses four cities and classes

By Oli Welsh Published 11 July, 2008

Features cut for quality, says Jacobs.

Mythic Entertainment boss Mark Jacobs has revealed that the EA studio is axing large chunks of content from the launch version of its upcoming MMO, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning.

The number of capital cities in the game is being reduced from six (one for each race) to two (one for each faction).

In addition, Mythic is leaving out four of the game's planned 24 careers, or character classes, from the final version of the game.

Jacobs broke the news to gamers in an exclusive interview with MMORPG.com.

The two cities that remain will be the Empire capital Altdorf, and the Inevitable City, the Chaos captial. These will now serve as the catch-all capitals for Order and Destruction respectively.

Mythic's plans for Warhammer Online's cities are ambitious - they will change dynamically according to the fortunes of their faction, and can be sieged and ransacked by the opposing side. The developers felt they could not do justice to this plan for all six races, Jacobs said.

"We wanted to make our capital cities the best cities in any MMO," he explained. "We think we're doing that, but it came at a price and that price is that the other cities aren't going in the game right now."

He also argued that narrowing the power struggle down to a war between two cities would focus the community in the early days of the game.

The four careers that are being cut are the Choppa (a Greenskin berserker type), the Hammerer (its Dwarven opposite number), the Black Guard (a Dark Elf warrior), and the Knight of the Blazing Sun (an Empire warrior).

Jacobs simply admitted that the four careers, as they stood, weren't good enough to go in.

"This isn't something that I can say that it is really a good thing for the player," he confessed. "I can say that we are doing this for quality, absolutely... We looked at them and we said these careers are just not great - and we tried, and they weren't coming out well."

Jacobs said that Mythic did plan to include the four racial captials in later updates to the game, but he did not confirm whether the axed character classes would ever be reinstated.

He also denied that Mythic's owner, Electronic Arts, had been involved in the decision to axe the features. "This has nothing to do with EA ... they had zero input in this ... They don't even know about it. It's not a discussion we would have with them," he said.

Warhammer Online is due out for PC in the autumn.

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About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (55) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • butler` #1 4 years ago

    just lol

  • Erinan #2 4 years ago

    Holy sh*t, that's quite a bomb there. And what's with "This has nothing to do with EA ... they had zero input in this ... They don't even know about it.". Your publisher doesn't even know about it, and you revert your name to Mythic Entertainement.

    Break up?
    Edited by 1 at 11/07/08 @ 17:29

  • Rirekon #3 4 years ago

    No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, just no. Do not start doing this now, we are so close to having a Warhammer MMO!

    I swear, if this game gets pulled again I might actually cry, I've been waiting years for it!

  • Malazan #4 4 years ago

    This is not a good sign.

  • Gurgeh #5 4 years ago

    "Features cut as the money runs out, says Jacobs"

    Fixed

  • Kalinin #6 4 years ago

    While the class reduction is something I can see the argument for, axing such a large aspect from the game as the racial pairings of each opposing capitol down to just humans versus chaos is pretty rubbish.

  • Xerx3s #7 4 years ago

    spinspinspin.

  • Fleisch #8 4 years ago

    can you imagine the lag in those two cities!?!? It's going to be Ironforge (Pre TBC) x1000!

    They seriously need at least 4 launch cities for the game..

  • Gurgeh #9 4 years ago

    "While the class reduction is something I can see the argument for, axing such a large aspect from the game as the racial pairings of each opposing capitol down to just humans versus chaos is pretty rubbish. "

    - AFAIK some of those classes haven't been around in beta for some time
    - they have run out of time so they can't get six cities ready
    - from a gameplay point of view players would probably gravitate towards the two "best" cities anyway. You don't want to spread people too thin in a PvP game.

  • galerian86 #10 4 years ago

    I guess this could end up as a good move on Mythic side. The user base is not going to be massive in the beginning. Rather than spreading the players on six cities, concentrate the power struggle on only two cities. As the number of players grow, expand it.

  • Chufty #11 4 years ago

    No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, just no. Do not start doing this now, we are so close to having a Warhammer MMO!

    I swear, if this game gets pulled again I might actually cry, I've been waiting years for it!

    Surely the point in this move was to make sure the game gets released on time?

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #12 4 years ago

    Actally from other sources the game hasn't changed much, it only now requires the players to 'win' two race wars to unlock the one major city not win of one race war to unlock that race city. So now if you were to loose the faction city now theres no 'backup' to goto for the major city stuff.

    The stakes are higher and the faction coordination is more required.

    The only 'true' loss is the classes at release, which is a shame but they're not gone for good..

    The only bad thing is those anti-war people out there have ammo again to try and ruin the game before it's even out to keep their 'top dog' game on top without more compettitors

  • Gaol #13 4 years ago

    Have you played WAR Kremlik?

    Because I would wait until you have before defending it against legitimate cynicism.

    And stop with the nonsense fanboy aspersions. Most mmorpg fans, including myself, are desperate for a decent game or two to come along; its been years since WoW and EQ2 were released and everything in between has been pretty awful.

    Anyway they're still putting in massive changes, as evidenced by the most recent beta client release; so lets all wait and see.
    Edited by 1 at 11/07/08 @ 18:15

  • sneetch #14 4 years ago

    Well, that's disappointing. Dwarves and humans I could see in Altdorf, greenskins and chaos in the Inevitable City, sure. But dark elves and high elves in there? What, are they on their holidays? They're a long way from home.

    Aren't the capital cities supposed to be the final part of the orc-dwarf, human-chaos and high-elf/dark elf RvR zones they had planned? What happens to them? Does this also mean that those other RvR zones are also going to be added after the launch? Or just that the final zones will be Altdorf and the Inevitable City for all RvR zones?

    I think there are more questions than answers here.

    Edit: ah, they're still there (according to Kremliks post) that's good.
    Edited by 1 at 11/07/08 @ 18:08

  • Schiraman #15 4 years ago

    Doesn't seem like a good sign. This game really seems to be struggling through development hell.

  • Crovax20 #16 4 years ago

    basically 4 cities get cut out for release but not from the game. So they will be added at a later point

    The 4 classes they don't know what they are going to do with those

  • mattniche #17 4 years ago

    This is good, it means they can concentrate on getting the rest it as polished as possible for launch.

    I'm rather looking forward to this.

  • Tyranix #18 4 years ago

    Oh dear oh dear.

  • Xeaon #19 4 years ago

    Punkbuster too heh, kick people when they're down eh.

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #20 4 years ago

    Gaol - I'm a beta tester, the beta - dispite this annoucement - is going well, and the other sources i spoke of are the community managers speaking on Warhammer Allience forums and from sites like MMORPG.com a lot of the WoW elite are porclaiming 'WAR is dead before it started' so i wasn't wrong with my 'ammo' statment sadly.

    sneetch - As far as I know the cities for the other factions will be placed in later, but this new rvr system is unknown if it's perminate or not

  • Kropotkin #21 4 years ago

    This is not good. Not good at all :( Cutting back so much content is something WoW never did upon its arrival. It just shows that when people try to outdo Blizzard they fall upon their own swords!

  • Setaro #22 4 years ago

    To be honest, the 2 cities that are in the beta right now are MASSIVE. There was no need to 6 in the first place, not on release day anyway. The Inevitable City looks fucking amazing.

  • Skurmedel #23 4 years ago

    I think it's an awesome sign, quality over quantity.

  • butler` #24 4 years ago

    Unfortunately Skurmedel, WAR isn't likely to have either.

  • bdc #25 4 years ago

    Last paragraph is a complete lie, of course EA did this. Don't even try to bullshit cover it up, just tell us, the gamers, then get on with the job.

  • Skurmedel #26 4 years ago

    And what do you base that opinion on butler`?

  • Pirotic #27 4 years ago

    I would believe him if the cut wasn't quite as drastic, 6 cities to 2 when the game is supposed to be out in a couple of months? It's going to be harder to re-introduce cities all of a sudden later on as well.

    Glad I cancelled my pre-order, the website alone gives of the stink of rush job.

  • Drogul #28 4 years ago

    Three months before launch and they cut 4 in 6 capitals. Though decision indeed, but for sure a very bad sign.

  • Gaol #29 4 years ago

    @Kremlik

    I agree on mmorpg.com, it always has a lot of naysayers on its forums. Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing what the next beta phase brings, there are a few very good ideas going in that we can't really discuss here. It's on a knife edge really, I just hope they get it right for release and don't go to market too soon like AoC.

  • Snidesworth #30 4 years ago

    This is bloody terrible. I'd hoped that the reason the BETA felt underwhelming was because it wasn't finished yet, and it appears I was right. Too bad they're rushing the game out utterly incomplete.

  • jimr9999us #31 4 years ago

    This game has been broken from the start...the only thing keeping it alive at all is the community's desire for a new world to explore.

    I was one of those people as well, but everything not Paul that has come out of Mythic this year has been crap. Gameplay footage, instance footage, the crafting system, all of it.

    And now this? This isn't getting rid of one city...this is 4 out of 6!

    I've made the statement before, careers will end because of this game.

  • Sildur #32 4 years ago

    Yep - looks like I was right in my comment saying that WAR was all hype and the team behind it didn't have the skills to get it done.

  • Sildur #33 4 years ago

    I bet Blizzard are laughing their nuts off at this too.

  • Nikalai88 #34 4 years ago

    How many other systems and environments would they have to change and rebalance because of this? I mean it was about progressing the conflict towards its logical conclusion. The whole point of living cities was to take pride in them, but my White Lion is not fond of the Empire, why would I care about the looks and strength of a city that is foreign? A capital city for one race that the other three have to piggyback on really ruins the 'feel' of the game for me. And such a big cut and so close to lunch does not inspire confidence in a game that has still not released a single video of massive RvR or of a public quest. And now that I actually forced myself to read what Mythic considers lore the Tome of Knowledge does sound so interesting. Warhammer IP may have 30 years of work put into it, but it didn't stop every game using it from having poor plots.

    I still can't believe it but WotLK became my most anticipated MMO for the year. Maybe it was upon finding out that you can do Air Cavalry like raids at lake Witergrasp or liking Blizzards less clownish, more honest and detailed presentations at WWI. It was great knowing just how much thought they put into the smallest things, like the aesthetic design of a bridge.
    Edited by 1 at 12/07/08 @ 00:41

  • craziii #35 4 years ago

    if they can add the cities later on it will be fine. but if the cities take too long to be patch in, the game will die. it is that SIMPLE.

    I guess my hope for a new mmo to get me back into online gaming just died.

  • Greychapter #36 4 years ago

    This is a huge set back. I had pre-ordered the game based upon details I had read about it and was so impressed that I ordered the collectors edition. No I'm not so sure I want it.

    So we're supposed to imagine that the forces of chaos, the ork, the dark elves etc can all live as one happy family under one roof?! I'm surprised GW hasn't had a fit over this as its totally not in keeping with the lore of the warhammer world.

  • actionfitz #37 4 years ago

    so much irony.
    This news news surrounded by banner adds for 'Age of Conan'...
    Funcom lied to us and got their 'record' preorder numbers, they promised so much and delivered very little of it, and what they did deliver was broken - take a trip over to their forum and see the general feeling of most of the posts.

    I just hope mythic have learnt the lessons from Vanguard - don't release too early due to financial matters - and from AoC - dont release early, then lie to the players saying it will be patched in very soon. AoC faces about 6 months of development before its in a state worthy of release in my personal opinion, through their dishonesty Funcom will not be getting my cash even then though.

    I want to have faith in in Mythic, I really want to play their game asap... but not at the price of the whole thing falling down around itself because it was released too early.
    This news makes me nervous, I renewed my wow sub after 3 months away having cancelled AoC. I'd hate for WotLK to be my only hope for a decent mmo experience this year.

    so, heres hoping they can deliver. Here's hoping this wont be another funcom style 'bait and switch'.

  • Wickerman #38 4 years ago

    Personally, I always saw having so many races from the off as likely to lead to inbalances - for those of you playing WoW, think the huge faction inbalances you get on some servers and the PvP issues that creates. Now, thats only spread between two possible choices and not the six there would have been in WAR...

    Still, like others have said, I'd like to see what this does regarding starting areas, and cuts of any nature to a game months before its supposed launch (and after delays) make me very, very nervous.

  • Setaro #39 4 years ago

    Frankly, I ask any naysayers in this comments page if they are in beta or not? I am, and the game already has a MASSIVE amount of content, and is very fun. Of the remaining 2 cities, I've seen the Inevitable City, and it's gigantic, basically an entire region. Yes we still have a lot of instances to test, but the game is in a good state already, it's hardly fucking vanguard. Vanguard was released in an utterly broken state; WAR's beta 4 months ago was in a superior state than Vanguard on release day.

    From the way the Beta is now +2-3 months more development time, WAR is gonna release in a very good state.

  • Trikk #40 4 years ago

    To put this in perspective with an example newcomers to the MMORPG genre can understand, hero classes and siege weapons were cut from vanilla WoW to be added "later" in a patch.

    Those features are about to be added in the second expansion, 4 years after launch.

    AoC PvP experience system was cut and is being added Soon(tm) as well.

    Don't take "cut" features for granted. They might come if the producers see the need, or they might be gone for a long time.

  • Derblington #41 4 years ago

    "Last paragraph is a complete lie, of course EA did this. Don't even try to bullshit cover it up, just tell us, the gamers, then get on with the job."

    Alternatively, they did tell you the truth, and you're just an idiot with an opinion that's misinformed and outdated...
    Edited by 1 at 12/07/08 @ 15:20

  • paulf #42 4 years ago

    @trikk

    'To put this in perspective with an example newcomers to the MMORPG genre can understand, hero classes and siege weapons were cut from vanilla WoW to be added "later" in a patch.

    Those features are about to be added in the second expansion, 4 years after launch. '

    didn't really effect wow in terms of gameplay or commercial success though did it, if whats left in war is great then who cares what they have left out - of course we wont know this until the game is launched

  • wellzy4eva #43 4 years ago

    I think the problem that nearly all developers have when trying to go against WOW is one of three things:

    1. Experience, Blizzard have been making online games since the early 90's, and have had over a decade of feedback and experimenting to find what does and does not work from character classes to quests to layout of towns, other MMO's can get there in the end, but after 3-6 months of declarations of averrage gameplay no one stays to see how the MMO's improve.

    2. Time, there are only a few dozen developers that are allowed the development time that Blizzard have, for designing, coding, testing, public beta's, stress testing and so on, and also have the flexibility to ask for more time and delay the release if they don't feel it's up to their standards, whereas other developers have publishers demanding release dates and hastiily released products and cutbacks are coming quite common

    3. Fanbase, how many huge MMO's have there been? first there was Ultima Online, Everquest and now WOW. There are generations of difference between these three MMO's, and until something with a overwhelmingly different (and superior) MMO comes out, it'll just pale in comparison, hencee why WOW will not be dethroned for a long time.

    WAR will probably not be a WOW beater, but don't persecute the developers for trying to make a game better.

    Personally, I think it's good that the developers are willing to do something dramatic like cut cities out of the game for quality purposes, it shows that they are willing to look constructively at their game and see weaknesses and cut them if required, Blizzard probably do it all the time just don't announce it publically.

  • Skywise #44 4 years ago

    "This has nothing to do with EA ... they had zero input in this ... They don't even know about it. It's not a discussion we would have with them,"

    They seem to have a really weird relationship with their publisher, or they're just lying (which seems more likely).
    I hope the reviews will be based on the game that is sent, and not even a tiny bit on the game that is promised.

  • Nikalai88 #45 4 years ago

    Reading more into this it seems like another Mythic desing flaw. They stated something along the lines that having only two cities will expose more people to siege warfare but this is simply not true. Since you have to capture three of the battlegrounds in order to siege its actually going to happen less often. What has a better chance of occuring; flipping one coin to see if it lands as heads or tails or flipping three hoping they will all be the same?

    Lol at Setaro, as if stating that you are something on the forums is going to make people actually care or believe you.
    Edited by 1 at 12/07/08 @ 17:54

  • makeamazing #46 4 years ago

    Oh dear me... this is what happens when you just keep adding more and more features and then realise you cannot fit it all in before release date....oops

    Its not the greatest decision to drop lots of content close to release, that does not give users any confidence in the game and will only damage it further. Someone in charge of design/production should probably go for a long walk....

  • Trikk #47 4 years ago

    didn't really effect wow in terms of gameplay or commercial success though did it, if whats left in war is great then who cares what they have left out - of course we wont know this until the game is launched

    How can you say that it didn't affect it in terms of gameplay and commercial success? Obviously Blizzard believes those features have a big impact on sales as they have focused an expansion on them, an expansion that will have more competition than their two previous MMO releases. I would easily have stayed with WoW from launch until now (rather than playing it on and off before finally quitting for good last January after completing my s3 set) if they had added hero classes and sieging rather than PvE instance #3287429837 that nobody cares about except the tiny portion of carebears that believe they are the market majority.

  • Darkjinxter #48 4 years ago

    Oh dear me

  • zozart #49 4 years ago

    Seems like a reasonable cut. I'm excited about the dynamic city features so I'd rather see two dynamic, interesting cities than six static and boring cities.

  • Nikalai88 #50 4 years ago

    WAR is competing with WoW 2008 and possibly WotLK, not WoW 2004. Most consumers aren't fanboys and not going to care that 'every MMO is like this' since they probably did not play their first MMO when it began. WoW at the start had a good window, people were getting tired of being milked in EQ, DAoC had a horrible expansion, EQ2 was underwhelming. Now that the MMO market is bigger and more profitable I don't think that we should accept the standard MMO launch and I bet most of the players won't either. Still so far I have not heard the whispers of massive bugs and stability problems from the beta (unlike AoC)

    All I want is a WAR video of RvR, that is the only thing that would recapture my hope for the game. I don't want to see anymore of 10v10 WoW style instanced combat. if I want that I will just play WoW. So far all I have read or heard sounds great, but simply looking at the gameplay footage was rather underwhelming. If Mythic does not show said footage at E3 that it will most likely be Lake Witergrasp for me.
    Edited by 1 at 13/07/08 @ 01:49

  • Crovax20 #51 4 years ago

    @nikalai

    You do realize that instances are the only way to get a fair fight right? They still play a major role in WAR, eventhough open world RVR is neccesary as well. Still I rather play a 10 vs 10 instance than a 100 vs 10 open world rvr zone

  • Nikalai88 #52 4 years ago

    1) WAR is hyped as an RvR game, it is the selling point of the game. Yet we have only seen instance footage and not any of RvR.

    2) If I want instance combat in an rpg I can play many others. In fact I would rather play Guild Wars.

    3) Blizzard admitted that having more in-game options like raids, arena and battlegrounds limited open world PvP.

    4) Smaller instances are not the fairest options; they do more to highlight the in-balances between different classes.

  • paulf #53 4 years ago

    '2) If I want instance combat in an rpg I can play many others. In fact I would rather play Guild Wars. '

    well you can only play other games at the moment (unless of course you are on the beta) bit pointless writing off a game before it is even released - maybe we should all hold off on the comments until it's out then we can judge it - or in eg's case mark it on how it will be 3 months after release ;)
    Edited by 1 at 13/07/08 @ 21:32

  • Vandrius #54 4 years ago

    First off... WOW cut alot from launch as previously mentioned. Hero classes was a major one. No real PVP was another. But they delivered quality.

    The thing is, games don't have to be "WoW killers". Guild wars has a large and dedicated following, and its done well. Same with EVE. And a few others.

    Blizzard aint perfect. WoW is an old game now - it looks it. Theres more content being added, but it is still the same old game that people "work" at rather than truly enjoy.

    But then again, I'm an old school UO-er, and I haven't seen a game since that equalled the ideas of freedom in that game.

  • anomagnus #55 4 years ago

    gutting

    i'm still 100% committed to the game, i just wish that Mythic had never mentioned i release date, he should have taken the Blizzed 'Soon' approach.

    Still, this wasnt the news i was looking forward to.